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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:30 AM
Original message
Hillary's false populism as seen on Letterman and a recent speech
So I suffered through a typical dead monologue of David Letterman in order to see Hillary on tonight's show. Other than the friendly meaningless banter I was struck by Hillary's seeming claim to stand up for the poor. Dave mentioned the number of people who are hungry in America and Hillary joined him in shock, as if this would never happen under a Clinton Presidency. Never mind that the number was probably only 20% higher than when Bill left office. Hillary is gonna feed those people.

Earlier in response to an RFK endorsement ad, I went looking on her website for some plans and proposals from her campaign that would help the poor or stand up for the powerless. I think it is important to have some specifics, because that is what forces Congress's hands. Reagan and Bush both had specific tax proposals, and once they took office Congress seemed to feel that the people had approved those policies, and they both were quickly passed.

Her issues list does not specifically mention poverty. The closest it gets is "strengthening the middle class" and a promise that "nobody will be invisible" to President Clinton. Reading through the following speech, it does contain some specifics, perhaps most notably the health care plan, but I found what I expected to find - Republican rhetoric and false populism. Here's the evidence.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=5466


Because, in the end, it is all about people. It is all about the woman in Columbia who grabbed my hand and said that her child was sick and the insurance company wouldn’t pay for the treatment that was necessary. It’s all about the man in Florence some months ago who came up to me some months ago and said, "I just keep working harder and harder and I feel like I’m falling further and further backwards. But I have a small business; I depend on transporting my goods, and the cost of energy just keeps going up." It's about the real lives of real people right here in South Carolina."


Discussion of problems is good. I appreciate that, but what about solutions?

For the immediate problems in the housing market she has a decent plan.



Then, she says this about the current stimulus plan



and that's a load of crap. The Congress has rolled over for another Bush proposal of "Temporary Assistance for Rich Families". Most of the money is going to families above the median income. LIHEAP, unemployment insurance and food stamps - you know, assistance to those who "need it the most" was sacrificed in this compromise. I called her office and told a staffer that. She (and Obama) need to bring those back to the table, but instead she is giving a speech as if that does not need to happen, as if the Bush plan already gives aid to "Americans who need it the most".

After a good discussion about "green energy investment" she switches to Republican rhetoric.



Ah, taxes are too high. The post-Reagan mantra, even after 4 rounds of huge tax cuts. Taxes are, apparently, still too high. Then she talks about the need for "fiscal responsibility" and then proposes a bunch of spending programs. So how will those be paid for? She only mentions increasing taxes on corporations. That sounds nice, but it's not gonna work. For example. In 1998 corporate taxes were 204 billion on profits of 928 billion, for a tax rate of 21.98%. In 2004, they were 224 billion on profits of 1.112 trillion. for a rate of 20.14%. Of course, in 1998, depreciation expenses were about 500 billion, some of which can be added to profit, depending on the laws on depreciation rules. But increase profits by 200 billion and increase the tax rate to 30%. What do you get? Another 200 billion in tax revenue, even under a best case scenario. Nothing to sneeze at, to be sure. However, Bush has recently proposed a budget with a 400 billion deficit, and that is after he slashed a bunch of social spending. Corporate tax increases simply are not gonna close that gap and allow for increased spending. At least not by the numbers I find.

Worse yet, Hillary proposes more tax cuts!



What's wrong with that? Like Republican plans to provide health insurance through tax credits, such a plan only provides benefits to wealthier families. The approximately 50% of families making less than $50,000 do not pay $3,500 in taxes. So that benefit goes to families above the median income. There is a similar problem with her "retirement accounts" as I detailed here
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/62 The same is also true for her defense of the child tax credit. When it went from $500 to $1,000, many lower income families saw zero benefit from that because they were already paying less than $500 in taxes. It buys into the Republican anti-tax mantra, and provides more benefits for those with higher incomes.

Fiscal responsibility, combined with spending increases that we cannot afford under said fiscal responsibility, combined with tax credits for people above the median income. None of that sounds like somebody who is going to stand up for the powerless. It looks like false populism to me, especially combined with a lie about the Bush stimulus package.
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. everybody knows hillary is a great liar. why are you so shocked?
every word out of her mouth is a lie. seriously, i thought this was common knowledge...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Tracy Flick will say anything, and truth is not a problem.
She's had one priority since getting to the senate: getting back into the White House.
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. exactly, she is a proven fraud
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. how so--by you sayso?? not after reading that silly IP!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. When she got that DLC tattoo ...
... that pretty much did it for me.
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. there is an evil part of me that wants her to inherit the Bush mess
I'll bet she spends alot of time whining about how it wasn't her fault.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. the Bushes are counting on her covering for them
That's why Dubya isn't worried if Hillary follows him.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I am hardly shocked
Nor would I go that far. I am simply trying to provide evidence for progressives who are thinking of voting for her.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. She did great on Letterman
cope
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes she did.
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kerstin Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. She was marvelous. n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. I know, the bottom 50 sees the disconnect
and, btw, Obama was the first to suggest a FICA tax rebate so everybody would get assistance, a bonus in social security, extended unemployment etc. He has a poverty program on his web site. And he focuses tax cuts specifically on families earning less than $75,000 and seniors earning less than $50,000. He is talking about US.
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_Wayne_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. What a stupid, illogical, confusing, rambling post
Keep this nonsense to yourself.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. can you give me some writing tips then?
More ad hominem logic and adjectives maybe?

What exactly was confusing?
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. yaaaaaaaaaaawwn
who can listen to or read Hillary stuff for more than 2 minutes?

:smoke: & coffee

Super Tuesday has started, Bring it ON!
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. yes exactly
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. kick
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. actually Wayne had a point
I screwed up the HTML code and it disappeared the quotes from Clinton

So I suffered through a typical dead monologue of David Letterman in order to see Hillary on tonight's show. Other than the friendly meaningless banter I was struck by Hillary's seeming claim to stand up for the poor. Dave mentioned the number of people who are hungry in America and Hillary joined him in shock, as if this would never happen under a Clinton Presidency. Never mind that the number was probably only 20% higher than when Bill left office. Hillary is gonna feed those people.

Earlier in response to an RFK endorsement ad, I went looking on her website for some plans and proposals from her campaign that would help the poor or stand up for the powerless. I think it is important to have some specifics, because that is what forces Congress's hands. Reagan and Bush both had specific tax proposals, and once they took office Congress seemed to feel that the people had approved those policies, and they both were quickly passed.

Her issues list does not specifically mention poverty. The closest it gets is "strengthening the middle class" and a promise that "nobody will be invisible" to President Clinton. Reading through the following speech, it does contain some specifics, perhaps most notably the health care plan, but I found what I expected to find - Republican rhetoric and false populism.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=5466

"And it's time we finally had a president who worked as hard for you as you work for America every single day.

Because, in the end, it is all about people. It is all about the woman in Columbia who grabbed my hand and said that her child was sick and the insurance company wouldn’t pay for the treatment that was necessary. It’s all about the man in Florence some months ago who came up to me some months ago and said, "I just keep working harder and harder and I feel like I’m falling further and further backwards. But I have a small business; I depend on transporting my goods, and the cost of energy just keeps going up." It's about the real lives of real people right here in South Carolina."


Discussion of problems is good. I appreciate that, but what about solutions?

For the immediate problems in the housing market she has a decent plan.

"I want to start with a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures. If the bank is about to foreclose on your home, you should have some breathing room to restructure your mortgage. I'm calling for freezing the monthly rate on adjustable rate mortgages for at least five years or until the mortgages have been converted into loans that families can afford. If you have an adjustable mortgage that’s about to skyrocket, you'll have the chance to pay it off with affordable payments."


Then, she says this about the current stimulus plan

"The Democratic leadership in the House and Senate along with the White House appear to be nearing a deal and I am heartened to hear that they are planning to extend assistance to the tens of millions of working Americans who need it the most."


and that's a load of crap. The Congress has rolled over for another Bush proposal of "Temporary Assistance for Rich Families". Most of the money is going to families above the median income. LIHEAP, unemployment insurance and food stamps - you know, assistance to those who "need it the most" was sacrificed in this compromise. I called her office and told a staffer that. She (and Obama) need to bring those back to the table, but instead she is giving a speech as if that does not need to happen, as if the Bush plan already gives aid to "Americans who need it the most".

After a good discussion about "green energy investment" she switches to Republican rhetoric.

"Maybe you want to start saving for retirement, but you can't do it because your taxes are too high and your wages aren't high enough."


Ah, taxes are too high. The post-Reagan mantra, even after 4 rounds of huge tax cuts. Taxes are, apparently, still too high. Then she talks about the need for "fiscal responsibility" and then proposes a bunch of spending programs. So how will those be paid for? She only mentions increasing taxes on corporations. That sounds nice, but it's not gonna work. For example. In 1998 corporate taxes were 204 billion on profits of 928 billion, for a tax rate of 21.98%. In 2004, they were 224 billion on profits of 1.112 trillion. for a rate of 20.14%. Of course, in 1998, depreciation expenses were about 500 billion, some of which can be added to profit, depending on the laws on depreciation rules. But increase profits by 200 billion and increase the tax rate to 30%. What do you get? Another 200 billion in tax revenue, even under a best case scenario. Nothing to sneeze at, to be sure. However, Bush has recently proposed a budget with a 400 billion deficit, and that is after he slashed a bunch of social spending. Corporate tax increases simply are not gonna close that gap and allow for increased spending. At least not by the numbers I find.

Worse yet, Hillary proposes more tax cuts!

"That's why I’ve outlined a comprehensive plan to open the doors of college to young people. It includes a new $3,500 college tax credit that will cover more than 50% of the typical cost of public colleges and universities or the full cost of tuition and fees for community colleges."


What's wrong with that? Like Republican plans to provide health insurance through tax credits, such a plan only provides benefits to wealthier families. The approximately 50% of families making less than $50,000 do not pay $3,500 in taxes. So that benefit goes to families above the median income. There is a similar problem with her "retirement accounts" as I detailed here
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/62 The same is also true for her defense of the child tax credit. When it went from $500 to $1,000, many lower income families saw zero benefit from that because they were already paying less than $500 in taxes. It buys into the Republican anti-tax mantra, and provides more benefits for those with higher incomes.

Fiscal responsibility, combined with spending increases that we cannot afford under said fiscal responsibility, combined with tax credits for people above the median income. None of that sounds like somebody who is going to stand up for the powerless. It looks like false populism to me.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Why not start again with a new post?
Like most people, I tried to read the OP first.

Without the quotes it is not very convincing.

Why not start again and make a new post?

Then let this one fall away ...

Just an idea.

:kick:
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. even DU doesn't want to read about Hill????
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. nobody reads downthread, and I messed up the OP - left out one frigging quote mark
tempted to re-post it but gotta goto lunch.
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DebraK Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. kick
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. you should kick post #19
it makes more sense than the OP. The OP, is, unfortunately, too late to edit.
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. OK, here's a kick for it!
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
26. You forgot the parts about eating baibies and smoking crack.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. Sorry, but so far, that populism has earned her most of the votes in the "poorer classes" -
- the lower income groups. The upper classes seem to prefer Obama. Figure that.

Hillary was a knockout on Letterman, which was recorded just before her huge success on her Town meeting event.
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