Is there any doubt that Dems in red states are scared to death about having Hilliary at the top of

[IsItJustMe]

the ticket come the General Election?

I like BO and HRC, so I have no axe to grind here, but it seems obvious to me, given the pattern of states that BO won, that the message is clear.

The Dems in these red states do not want HRC to lead the ticket. I think they are afraid that Dems will loose there if that be the case.

I am no spunge brain when it comes to politics, but this is the way it seems.

[bigtree]

1. Both candidates have the liability of their respective gender and race

It makes more sense that Obama will get the most heat and the most reaction from the public because this will be his first introduction to many Americans.

[IsItJustMe]

2. You have a point there, sometimes it's difficult to keep things in perspective.

[TexasObserver]

3. Not just red states. Blue states too.

Anyone who has to run for reelection in the fall knows that Hillary at the top could literally pull them under. It's hard to get straight ticket voters when people don't like the top of the ticket, and if they don't pull the straight party lever, we tend to get slaughtered down ballot.

[Benhurst]

4. Neither is likely to win in the South.

We Democrats in the South are not very representative of our states as a whole, unfortunately, so our choices don't reflect the outcomes of general elections.

In North Carolina, we nominated an African American, Harvey Gantt, for the U.S. Senate in 1990 and 1996. He was a good candidate; but you may not have heard of him, since Jesse Helms won.

Richard Burr and Elizabeth Dole represent us in the U.S. Senate today. Google them if you aren't familiar with their voting records, and you come to a better understanding of what we are up against.

[donheld]

5. Yes Arkansas really showed us how they tremble n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. Ummmmmm

What about Oklahoma?

With Inhofe and Coburn it doesn't get much redder. Hillary won here and it wasn't even a close call.

I have family in Arkansas and live in Oklahoma. I don't think you can attribute Hillary's win here to an Arkansas spillover effect. Lots of reasons for that. Some cultural. Some economic. Some media related.

In many ways, Oklahoma really has more in common with Kansas than with Arkansas. Both are midwest plains states. Arkansas is a southern state. Even Oklahoma statutory law was originally derived from Kansas law. Also, there have long been more and better roads from Oklahoma into Kansas than into Arkansas.

There are Dems here in Oklahoma that do not like Obama. I've heard some here criticize him for being arrogant and lacking in substance and experience. Unfortunately, Obama didn't really campaign here so those perceptions were left unchallenged. It would be interesting to know why he wrote off the state - especially given his efforts and his win in Kansas.

Edwards was very well liked here. I would guess that many of his Oklahoma supporters broke for Hillary.



FWIW, I don't have an axe to grind here either. I will vote for whoever gets the nomination come November. There is both good and bad about both Hillary and Obama.

[IsItJustMe]

8. I am not sure what the stats are now, but I am an Edwards supporter and I was keeping a watch on his

vote last night. He was still getting 2% to 3% of the vote in some states, but at one point, it went up to 9% in Oklahoma, which impressed me.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. Edwards got 10% in Oklahoma

Lots of Dems here are not happy about the prospect of voting for either Hillary or Obama. Honestly, I would not be surprised to see some go for McCain in November. There is lots of frustration with candidates here. Republicans don't appear too happy with their choices either.

[beachmom]

7. Yep. Obama is about the 50 State strategy, while Clinton is playing

the old game of winning enough states to get through. She won the solid blue states (although not all of them, obviously) that have big Dem Machine apparatuses, but in the states where Dems have been nonexistent for a long time, Obama cleaned up. Regardless of what happens, what Obama has done in the red states is very important for our party.

[BenDavid]

13. BEACHMOM, any democrat running for president has to secure

those blue states. The only one in the last two elections that came close to losing a blue state was kerry in Pa. in 04, but with the help of bill clinton on 10-25-04 in Philly the following week kerry was able to win Pa.....

you know what pisses me off about these numb nut democrats in red states is they buy into the rights hype about how bad hrc is and instead of growing a pair and putting forth their own agenda they allow the damn repugs to set the rules, where there should be no rules....and usually end up losing all by themselves and then wanna blame it on a clinton....

Based upon what I've seen thus far HRC has a damn great chance to win the blue states needed and like any democrat if she loses one then we can all go to bed early...but take the states kerry won in 04 and project to hrc.....now lets see how thus far hrc might be able to pick up a few more...I would say florida is in play...Nevada is in play....New Mexico again is in play....Arkansas is back in play again.....Maybe Tenn is too....so you see thus far the states I named Kerry lost, and I will use 2000 as an example HRC wins all the states gore did and wins tenn and loses florida hrc still is the president...hrc loses tn but wins florida she is president...hrc loses florida but wins nevada and new mexico she is president....oh it is good to think obama has a 50 state attack, but that will never work.....

[beachmom]

15. Well, but here's the thing:

Obama will win those blue states in a General Election. The machines in the big blue states are team players, and they will support the nominee, and deliver the votes in November.

What I am talking about is things like Obama going to Nebraska, the first primary candidate of EITHER PARTY doing that this season. I agree that we will not win in Nebraska in Nov., but I think it is important for party building to start planting some grassroots there for the future.

And on a poignant note here in Georgia: there are some problems in GA with the Dem party -- a racial divide. Yet Obama not only won 90% of the AA vote, but 43% of the white vote. I hope you take a moment to appreciate what that means here. It means that maybe we can get past the racial identity politics that have plagued this state and that has hurt Democrats here. Maybe we can work together and start getting Dems elected, not just in black districts, but outside of that area. This is the party building I am talking about.

[havocmom]

28. You know the 'numb nut democrats in red states ' so well...

NOT

That phrase speaks volumes about the problems the (soon to be obsolete) McAuliffe wing of the Democratic party has, and possibly one of the reasons the GOP kept winning and gaining.

There are a lot of California ex-patriots in 'red states' now. The old demagraphics just don't hold up. Dean gets it.

But what do I know? I'm just a numb nut democrats in a red state <---that has a DEM governor, two DEM senators and a medical marijuana law that passed not long ago. Oh, and our Gov did a D.C. road trip a while back, going on every talk show and news program he could to point out how bush's abuse of the National Guard has made Americans at home less safe when disasters strike. HE got our Guard's helicopters back from Iraq. How have 'blue state' govs done with facing down bush/cheney?

numb nut democrats in red states! That attitude is a BIG part of the problem and it needs to stop. It IS bigotry.

[havocmom]

21. Yes! it is Dean's 50 state formula v McAuliffi's DLC elite inner circle plan

The heartland is NOT gonna sit and be ignored by the DEMs anymore.

If we want to win elections, we have to recognize the nation is more than the coasts. The heartland used to be DEM stronghold and we need to look back to our populist roots. The working class inner city areas need to he heard too. They need to know the DEMs are listening and rolling up their sleeves for those people who have lost so much ground the past several years.

Clinton's people don't get that.

[Enrique]

9. I've read quotes saying they'd prefer Obama

but not that they're scared to death of Hillary.

[IsItJustMe]

14. I have noticed that the elected Democrats in these states seem to be going over for Obama. I do

think I could have chosen a better phrase than 'scared to death' though.
Thanks for pointing that out.

[Sparkly]

10. It's possible they simply preferred Obama, for his own sake.

:shrug:

[LostinVA]

11. AR, TN, and esepcially Freeper OK just hated her, eh?

And, she was very close in MO.

So yay, it is just you.

[IsItJustMe]

16. It wouldn't be the first time. LOL

[beachmom]

17. Come on: AR is a home state with OK in the same media market.

TN was a place where Hillary had a huge lead going in.

I don't find those results particularly surprising.

[boricua79]

18. That's the funny thing about it

A Clinton / Obama ticket would cement all anti-Hillary hatred against the Dem ticket. Obama would just serve to unite teh Democrats under him under Clinton's presidential candicacy.

However, if Obama was the presidential candidate and Hillary the VP, most of her supporters would still support the ticket because it would still be a historic ticket, a woman would STILL be making history, and she'd still have access to power, plus all independents that like Obama would vote for it, and Republicans would not be able to play the anti-Hillary card as usefully (because Obama would be the candidate).

The smartest on the Dem side would be Obama / Clinton, with Obama as President.

[Maribelle]

19. Not at all in my Red State of Florida. Hillary received 850,000 votes.

This Red State loves Hillary

[rucky]

20. Looking at the map, and looking at McCain...

Obama seems to be in the best position for the GE.

I still think Hillary could win on turnout alone, but it won't be a landslide by any means.

[mrmx9]

22. Florida is a swing state - not a red state!

The Dems need to take lots of Senate seats in red states this time to win the 60 votes they need to truly control the Senate. Hillary won't help them in the mid west.

[busymom]

23. I reported this earlier...

but my dad is a diehard republican who helped to finance Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (I know...I DO hang my head in shame!), and...he was totally pushing Obama on me. Then he called me last week very mad because the SBV have pushed the Obama vote and many are voting for Obama to get him on the ticket. The problem? They are ending up with McCain on THEIR ticket. Oooops. So these ultra-conservative neocons are now really upset about this. My dad hates McCain.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. Not in Tennessee, not in Nevada, not in Florida, not in Arkansas

These may not be the deepest Red of states, but they happen to be three States that Kerry lost that Democrats actually have a chance to flip Blue in the 2008 Presidential Election. I'm sorry, but our Presidential candidate is not going to win Idaho, Alabama, Wyoming, South Carolina and North Dakota in Novemeber.

[moondust]

25. They may be

simply voting for the most un-Republican candidate they can find in hopes of escaping the crap they have to put up with every day!

[TexasObserver]

26. Obama has a good shot at winning Southern and border states

That will never vote for Hillary in the general election.

She has only one strategy that might work: go for the big states and forget everyone else.

[K Gardner]

27. Most people can clearly see that, except for HRC apologists/supporters

[Politicub]

29. I have a lot of nervous energy about the general this time around

I admit it. Looking over the exit polls, I was impressed how Obama was sweeping the south, which will help our chances in the general. The best of both worlds would be a Hillary/Obama or Obama/Hillary ticket, so I'm hoping the two camps will stay cordial enough with one another to make this happen.

[Guava Jelly]

30. I think she will be a harder sell

Most independents in Kansas and Missouri really dislike Clinton for some reason.
I don't love her but I don't hate her.
My vote is firmly for who I believe has a better chance at beating McCain/Huckabee.
That said if she gets the nod she gets my support