Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

OK so sensible folks agree we're tied. Should we be though?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 11:46 AM
Original message
OK so sensible folks agree we're tied. Should we be though?
Edited on Wed Feb-06-08 11:48 AM by dmallind
Despite being a fairly well informed enthusiast in politics I confess I was not until the last couple of months up on the intricate details of delegate assignment in Dem primaries and caucuses.

Now I am I am not enthusiastic about how this is done. I know it started moving in this direction after the 68 debacle and I'm not a fan of winner take all either, but it strikes me this almost enforced parity for any candidate who gets 40% of the vote even if they lose by 10% or more is self defeating, and especially the option for popular vote losers to gain more delegates than winners. We are essentially ensuring that a match up between two popular well funded candidates becomes a bruising, expensive, public internecine war for eight months or more. If this were the price of real democracy then so be it, but the delegate assignment is not all that democratic and believe me a convention-decided candidate is not - the horse trading and high pressure tactics possible there coupled with the two-tier system inherent in election by delegate are far from clean democracy.

This is not a sour grapes post either. Both candidates have been helped and hurt by this, and my preference for Obama is not overwhelming enough to be a source of partisan bias. I like both candidates. I liked all the last three and most of the others too. But I want to see the candidate be chosen by the people, and I want even more than that in a way to see the candidate positioned to win, not battered and broken and broke.

An Obama Clinton race would be close regardless - they are both immensely popular and capable with equal but different strengths and core demographics. But we should IMO have a system that identifies a clear favorite on a very clear and democratic basis. Since states are the effective unit of general elections (with a few minor exceptions like NE) I would propose a state-based delegate allocation directly in line with state popular votes. If a state has 100 delegates and Obama wins 53% of the vote to Hillary's 47% that's what I think the delegate count should be. "Odd" delegates where the math is not that clean should favor the winner of the popular vote.

What would be wrong with such a system? The district-based set up is not relevant to the GE and allows skewed totals based on gerrymandered and homogeneous constituencies. Isn't the whole point of democracy to reflect the cumulative choice of the people as a whole, and not favor one client over another because the district is non-representative and gets to assign delegates on that basis?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've had similar thoughts
However, this race is so tight nationally that any system other than a winner take all system would still be just as tight.

Two examples of how a state-wide proportional system would match the current system :

Iowa


Obama 38%
Edwards 30%
Clinton 29%

Current system

Obama 16 delegates
Edwards 14 delegates
Clinton 15 delegates

Statewide system

Obama 17
Edwards 14
Clinton 13
Richardson 1

South Carolina


Obama 55%
Clinton 27%
Edwards 18%

Current system

Obama 25 delegates
Clinton 12 delegates
Edwards 8 delegates

Statewide system

Obama 25
Clinton 12
Edwards 8


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC