Hillary should drop out, we need time to build our strength and party image

[Capn Sunshine]

But it won't happen. Her organization, struggling for a win at all costs, has inflicted untold damage to the Democratic Party image. Her organization has proven they are consistent losers. They have taken a huge lead and pissed it away time after time, the latest examples clearly available for viewing post super Tuesday. CA, up by 40%, finished barely + 10%. Nationally, up by 40 at the start, now tied or behind. One thing you can count on, Clinton's team will take a runaway and make it a possible loss. They are proven losers.

In my opinion, since she's not going to emerge victorious without inflicting more damage on the national image of the party and performing a cramdown of the youthful base, she should withdraw now.

Instead we will witness the Clinton version of the Obama surge: dirty tricks and rule violations to attempt to seat delegations from two invalid elections, like they planned. Winning is more important than integrity.

Is this what the party has become? It would seem so.
Read below, you will see everything you need to know about the Clinton "Democrats" in all their glory.

Have at it, you 44ers. Make us proud.

[OKNancy]

1. I just donated for the first time this year to

Hillary.

[krkaufman]

59. chuckle. I hope it works out better for you.

Every time I donate to a candidate, they usually drop-out within a couple days. (Clark '04; Edwards '08)

[sniffa]

79. And I just donated last night for the first time in my 32 years on this Earth

to Obama. It won't be the last either. :woohoo:

[IndieLeft]

2. If it wasn't for the 2 million early votes... CA would have been MUCH closer

[madfloridian]

47. Florida would have been many times closer if not for early votes.

She was down to 4% margin by election day voters.

[Jed Dilligan]

62. I'll be calling Mar. 5 to see if my provisional ballot was counted.

A lot of first time voters and young folks who move around a lot--I had to go provisional because I left my reg. up to the DMV and they blew it.

[goldcanyonaz]

80. Uh huh... Any data to support your opinion?

[rodeodance]

98. you got at backwards

[Zensea]

3. You're bad

Trying to stir up trouble are we?

[Capn Sunshine]

6. Ya think?

I figure, why should the 44's have all the fun? Should we all be allowed to act like complete idiots?

[blm]

13. He's being as earnest as a loyal Democratic activist can be. I can hear it in every word

he typed.

And I've butted heads enough with the Cap'n over the years to know when he's having a laugh and when he's dead serious.

Well, maybe not DEAD serious - but he means it.

[Zensea]

22. I'm quite familiar with the Cap'n

I think he's having a laugh and being dead serious at the same time.
It's his inimitable style of things.

Excellent.

[Capn Sunshine]

29. yes. That's it . A dead laugh

certainly at the Clinton's expense.

But I am of the opinion that the only way she can win at this point is through a combo of treachery and mudslinging the likes of which we haven't seen.A Pyhrric victory at best, because the national electorate will look at that win at all costs thing, collectively vomit, and stay home.

And a shout out to a couple of longtime DU posters who I always enjoyed.

I have a strategy meeting. I'll have to count on the "44" wackadoodles that inhabit this site to keep this thread kicked. Later dudes.

[madfloridian]

84. LOL

:rofl:

[ursi]

4. The clintons are going to bully America into letting them back in the White House

it's their house, dammit! how dare we!

[niceypoo]

32. What a childish insinuation

:rofl:

[populistdriven]

41. she shall see to it we lose both houses just like bill did

[BootinUp]

5. She clearly has more votes and delegates than Obama

so I beg to differ on who should be dropping out.

[Capn Sunshine]

12. MSNBC: Obama 838 Clinton 834

not very clear if you ask me.

Her campaign is sputtering, she's got no momentum, and their strategy that she was to coronated on super Tuesday came up lame.

She should quit while she still has a shred of her dignity

[PeaceNikki]

How many of those are superdelegates?

CNN has it at 818 for Clinton and 730 for Obama.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

[TexasObserver]

78. I'd like to see them put another 30 million into that campaign first

of their money, and watch that evaporate

Then they can make it back by co-writing a new book:

"The Audacity of Hope, Dammit!!"
the story of two kids from Hope who went to the big city,
became the establishement, and forgot where they came from

[TheDeathadder]

7. "has inflicted untold damage to the Democratic Party image"???

Give me a break. This is how Repubs talk about Dems, not how Dems talk about Dems. This is a Primary you know?

[Capn Sunshine]

14. Yep. Huge damage; she's playing right into their hands

the only way she can win is by treachery.

You want that meme out there for the general? "Bring back Clinton treachery in '08"?

[TheDeathadder]

28. How has she only won by treachery so far?

That's an insult to all of the Dems who have voted for her so far.

[Binka]

65. Ouch Did That Hurt Baby?

:cry: Cap'n hurt your feelings?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. You Could Hurt My Feel,ing With A Glock

~

[PeaceNikki]

8. What specifically do you think she's done that's

"inflicted untold damage to the Democratic Party image".

Don't talk in generalities of "dirty tricks and rule violations". What dirty tricks? What rule violations?

A Wiggum supporter like me wants to know.

[Capn Sunshine]

18. Dirty tricks and rule violations

That's not general terms, These are actual events.
She can only win with treachery.
She should drop out

[PeaceNikki]

21. You can't name instances of these dirty tricks and rule violations?

CNN has it at 818 for Clinton and 730 for Obama.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

[JackORoses]

31. ok, here you go

1. She left her name on the ballot in MI, and tried to claim a big victory in FL. This is all part of her scheme to eventually try to force the seating of these flawed delegations. This will go down as one of the dirtiest moves ever in Democratic Politics.

2. She attempted to split the Party along racial lines in SC and partially succeeded. But she is still suffering from the fallout of this strategy. It will backfire in the long run.

3. Her supporters attempted to suppress thet at-Large Caucuses in NV.

4. Her supporters had Obama's Get Out The Vote people expelled from Polling Stations in NH.

5. Bill Clinton has abused the innate trust Americans have in a President to spread mistruths about Obama.

6. She 'cried' on the eve of two Primaries, and her campaign attempted to parlay these stories to gain sympathy amongst women voters.

the list goes on...

the InItToWinIt attitude might work for 1 person,
but not a Party, or a Nation

[sniffa]

81. Good list

But I suspect you're about to be parsed to death.

[madfloridian]

83. LOL

Ask me about parsing. LOL Love that hope flavored kool-aid.

[emulatorloo]

9. This is just silly. Clinton is in no way done. Neither is Obama

I was an Edwards guy and I prefer Obama over Clinton. As far as negativity both have been giving Tit for Tat. Most democrats like both Obama and Clinton, and are interested to see how this is going to play out.

[KoKo]

73. Agree....a baiting thread which the OP might enjoy the humor of given what goes on here....

but only adds another log on a burning fire. I want it to go to Convention. If it's dirty and fought hard...then it's because the people are "energized" ....unlike that spineless group of reps in Congress who are too afraid of their own shadows to stand up and fight.

I've seen all my candidates drop out because they didn't get the money and support that Obama and Hillary did. I'm mad as hell and I want this thing to go on so ALL the dirty laundry comes out...and let the last person standing get the nomination. Only the toughest will survive the mess Bush has left us...and probably whoever is left standing will be a one-termer because of the mess we are in and the choices that were given us.

[papau]

10. Obama should drop out - we can't have primary victories based on 90% black vote and be united - now

that does sound stupid -doesn't it?

I suggest your original post also suffers from sounding stupid.

[LittleClarkie]

11. I'm sick of these posts from either side

She's not dropping out.

He's not dropping out.

Get over it.

[emulatorloo]

17. Thank you --- the longer this goes, the more we learn about our candidates

and hello to you from the momentarily delurked emulatorloo. :toast:

[LittleClarkie]

37. Howdy!

Good to see you!

:hi:

[Capn Sunshine]

20. maybe she should drop out

is there any honor in winning by treachery? The whole world is watching.
She should quit.

[Der Blaue Engel]

15. Obama should drop out, we need time to build our strength and party image

But it won't happen. His organization, struggling for a win at all costs, has inflicted untold damage to the Democratic Party image. His organization has proven they are consistent losers. They have taken a huge lead and pissed it away time after time, the latest examples clearly available for viewing post super Tuesday. CA, predicted by the media as being an Obama upset, finished behind by more than 10%. Nationally, touted by everyone as a huge surge at the start, now tied or behind. One thing you can count on, Obama's team will take a runaway and make it a possible loss. They are proven losers.

In my opinion, since he's not going to emerge victorious without inflicting more damage on the national image of the party and performing a cramdown of the adult base, he should withdraw now.

Instead we will witness the Obama version of the Clinton comeback: dirty tricks and rule violations to attempt to seat delegations from Edwards and Kucinich, like they planned. Winning is more important than integrity.

Is this what the party has become? It would seem so.
Read below, you will see everything you need to know about the Obama "Democrats" in all their glory.

Have at it, you Obamatons. Make us proud.

ETA (since so many simply won't get it): Both posts are ridiculous and obscene.

[Capn Sunshine]

23. come ON! I expect better than this from you guys

a PARROT POST?
where's the beef?

[Binka]

66. The Beef Is Gone Capn They Are Spinning Bullshit

They have nothin. Shit just begets shit.

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Next you will say "HIllary is a racist for stealing votes from a Black candidate"

:rofl:

[reggie the dog]

19. no no no

Instead of saying one should drop out, why not complete every single primary and see how the delegates from the people stack up. Then, ignoring the superdelegates, the person in first is the presidential nominee and the person in second is the VP nominee.

[Capn Sunshine]

25. Yikes

that makes too much sense.

[reggie the dog]

40. right

and instead of cutting their own party to pieces it would project a unified team.

[ShortnFiery]

24. democratic "follow the DNC rules" kick for the evening crowd.

:dem:

[Tarc]

26. And why would the current delegate leader drop out?

Team Obama sure is acting a little funny today.

[Capn Sunshine]

44. Obama is the delegate leader-838 to 834

if you use the approach of the , who don't read Hillaryis44.com

[donheld]

27. You should drop out

and stop posting stupid threads.

[Capn Sunshine]

30. no YOU should

Nyah Nyah Nyah

Ah how the level of discourse creates fond memories.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Why Should She Drop Out?

She has received hundreds of thousand more total votes than Obama...

She appeals to demographic groups who find Obama wanting...


She is the choice of many more rank and file Democrats:


http://www.gallup.com/poll/104200/Gallup-Daily-Tracking-Election-2008.aspx

If she doesn't get the nomination I can see many Latinos, elderly and down scale whites voting McCain or staying home...

[incapsulated]

34. I want to see how this attitude of entitlement works for you in a GE.

"McCain should drop out and everyone in the country must report to Obama HQ's to collect their monthly ration of koolaide."

HAIL OBAMA OUR NEW KING!!

[Capn Sunshine]

49. That isn't what I said

I said Hillary should drop out to spare us any more damage to the party.

Look, she's out of money, cannot compete in advertising, her staff is working for free ( for how long God only knows) it's my assertion she can only win by treachery and mudslinging on a nuclear level. That will hand the whole thing to MC Cain.

She should drop out before the public outcry starts.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Talk About Deluded!

You are too funny!

:rofl:

[Zuiderelle]

36. That was my reaction as well!

:rofl:

[AX10]

38. Who says that she is "inflicting damage" besides Obamites?

Obamanation is off the wall.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. Who says she isn't?

what the hell kind of argument is that? Keep your blinders on tightly and you won't see the damage.
She's out of cash, her people areworling for free, she can't compete with the advertising in the remaining primary states, she's going to have to resort to mudslinging and treachery just to stay even.

[BigDDem]

39. Holy shit, what is team BO smoking today?

I know you guys aren't interested in reality but this is laughable.

[LeftCoast]

43. Proven losers? Hillary won her seat. Bill won election to the Presidency both times.

Methinks you're engaging in a bit of wishful history.

[dailykoff]

48. Against Rick Lazio.

Wonder how much they paid him to play stooge.

[LeftCoast]

55. You people will make up any 'fact' to fit your narrative

First H is a proven loser. Then when I show she's not, the story gets changed. Now we're supposed to believe that H's opponent was a paid stooge. Please.

You all need to realize that binary thinking programmed by years of RW anti-clinton spin does not give you an accurate view of reality.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. Compared To Alan Keyes Rick Lazio Was Ronald Fucking Reagan

~

[EFerrari]

56. Any sentence that begins with "methinks"

is starting from an anachronistic ditch.

[LeftCoast]

64. Attack the messenger when you can't attack the message

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

103. Irony can hurt if it falls on your foot.

:thumbsup:

[Capn Sunshine]

92. Methinks you don't know her staff that well.

They brought us the Kerry Kampaign. They brought us wooden Al Gore. They tanked a hundred other candidates in between , and they think THEY are responsible for BillClintons once- in - a- lifetime charisma. They lucked into that, and still think it was their DLC "values that got him elected.

Now, they latched onto Hillary, and in true form, took a 30 point lead and reversed it.

Look. She's not going to be competitive in the remainder. Her ONLY strategy was that she should have won by now. Plan "B" doesn't exist, and neither does any more funds.

Ergo, loose the dogs.

[madfloridian]

45. Capn, did you see this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4452555&mesg_id=4452555

They are not going to stop. They will continue.

[dailykoff]

46. She's got nothing but a big bag of dirty tricks.

Lots of funny business in the California elections for instance. She's a third-rate candidate backed by every poisonous deception the evil geniuses on Wall Street, K Street and Madison Avenue can cook up.

[RockyTorres]

50. STOP IT!!!!

[dailykoff]

51. You joined today to say that?

[madfloridian]

54. People have joined today to say far less than that.

:rofl:

Chain-yankers.

[Capn Sunshine]

57. Tru dat

If you didn't allow people who joined since 2007 to post, this place would be a tomb.

[EFerrari]

53. I can't hear you. Speak up.

[EFerrari]

52. The Clintons have become their own worst enemies

not to mention, the party's.

I couldn't agree more.

They could do so much better than THIS.

[Skip Intro]

58. Her organization has inflicted untold damage to the party? You are rediculous.

I think Obama should drop out before the public begins to think Dems offer nothing but empty Hallmark slogans as solutions to their problems.

[DemGa]

60. The tone to these attacks is quite strange

Like nothing I've seen before in Democrats, for sure. I haven't defined it just yet, but it's something very bizarre.

[dailykoff]

63. Yes sanctioning torture is indeed bizarre

for a supposed Democrat.

[Sandy2k]

61. Go Obama!

Obama will be better for the party then Hillary.

[LadyVT]

67. hahahahahahahahahah! That is very funny!

[AJH032]

68. I'm disgusted with Obama supporters attitude towards Michigan/Florida

Rule violations, integrity, contracts. Whatever. I find it appalling that Obama supporters, who are simply afraid of Michigan's and Florida's delegates being counted because they didn't vote for THEIR candidate (especially FL, since both were on the ballot there), are trying to block the voices of primary voters who are just as American as citizens of the other 48 states. Yes, it would be against DNC rules. That, however, does not make it right. If Obama wins the nom as a result of the silencing of Michigan and Florida, THAT will damage the image of the party. THAT will be embarrassing and shameful.

[woolldog]

69. ...

It's not fair to change the rules midway through the game. And that's what the Clintons are (cynically) asking for.

Do you think if they had lost Florida and Michigan they'd want the delegates counted? Are you that naive?

[AJH032]

70. I'm not talking about what the Clintons want

I'm talking about what the right thing to do is. Period.

[Binka]

72. The right thing to do is to cheat?

Take a hike.

[madfloridian]

90. Ohhh talk about spinning.....Obama is following the rules.

Hillary folks are all over Florida begging for those delegates.

If she wins using them, it will be a bitter win.

[StevieM]

71. That's Obama's strategy....spin to win. Demand Hillary out of the race, act like it's over and then

count on the media to play along. This is how he's decided to reach out to voters on March 4, Super Tuesday II. Hillary has this crazy strategy based on talking about issues and debating her opponent.

Steve

[KoKo]

74. And, I've read here that Obama doesn't want any more debates....

that's democracy for ya...

[LisaL]

75. What an absurd statement.

Why doesn't Obama drop out to unite the party?

[Iceburg]

76. Betcha Obama leaves thru a back door on Feb 25th

'It's a story of Mr. Hope backed by Mr. Slumlord, who will be in federal court on February 25th on what U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald calls a "pay to play on steroids."'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obamas-faustian-bargain-_b_82863.html

[judaspriestess]

77. and before this Edwards needed to drop out because he would be

a spoiler blah, blah, blah

Whats next?

[snappyturtle]

82. I hadn't thought of this:

But it won't happen. Her organization, struggling for a win at all costs, has inflicted untold damage to the Democratic Party image. Her organization has proven they are consistent losers. They have taken a huge lead and pissed it away time after time, the latest examples clearly available for viewing post super Tuesday. CA, up by 40%, finished barely + 10%. Nationally, up by 40 at the start, now tied or behind. One thing you can count on, Clinton's team will take a runaway and make it a possible loss. They are proven losers.

Really it's true!

If the delegates are seated from MI and FL I will give up.

[McCamy Taylor]

85. Both of them should drop out. Let John Edwards the REAL Democrat take over :p

Or maybe Kucinich. Or even Gravel.

I never! Who made you people God of the Democratic Party!

[Beacool]

86. Are you for real?????????????

Why should she bow out???????

Yeah, let's all hail the new Messiah of the Democratic party. He has as much substance as a souffle, but boy does he talk ever so pretty and isn't it inspiring how all the kids go ga-ga over him???

Please, gag me. I rather vote for a rock than this self-serving, arrogant man.

BTW, Hillary won the popular vote and she does have more delegates, despite MSNBC's count. Check several other sites such as the NYT, real clear politics, CNN, etc. and you'll see that she's ahead.

Hey, here's a great idea, why doesn't Obama drop out of the race? Let him come back when he doesn't need training wheels.


:rofl:

[madfloridian]

91. Capn is very real indeed.

He is a treasure and a puzzle, a conundrum.

[Capn Sunshine]

93. an enigma wrapped in a mystery

:)

[Capn Sunshine]

87. hyuk

Damn, I get get enough of this cult business.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. Patting Yourself On The Back For Becoming A Master Baiter

PM me your address and I swear to send you a month's supply:


http://www.astroglide.com/

[Capn Sunshine]

95. lol

Yes, I am a master debater and a cunning linguist.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. Seriously

Why not let the process play out?

The winner needs legitimacy...We can not go into the Fall campaign with half the Democrats feeling they were jobbed...

Hillary's coalition is made up of working class whites or those that have been left behind, Jews, older voters, women, Asians and Latinos, the latter group being the largest and fastest growing minority group in America...

If they feel they were jobbed many will stay home and more than a few will vote for McCain , especially Latinos who remember he bucked the nativist trend of his party as did Bush*...

It might be cathartic to you and to some here but a big "Fuck You" to Hillary and her supporters means John McCain in the Fall...

Unlike many at DU my business requires me to talk to all kinds of people not just uber progressives and to many of them including garden variety Democrats John McCain is not some boogey man...To them he's the maverick war hero independent Republican who doesn't hate gays, Latinos or liberals...

We need a united front...

[madfloridian]

97. A united front for Hillary you mean.

To heck with party rules, to heck with the deception of the Florida Democrats. I want a united front with Obama.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. You Can Ignore The Will Of The Fastest Growing Minority In America At Your Own Peril

George Bush* got 40% of the Latino vote...Many people knowledgeable about that community say McCain will do better...He's in sync with them on social issues and he doesn't hate them nor want to send them all back home...

You are also ignoring the five percent of Americans that are Asian that have embraced Hillary as well as the left behind white working class, older voters, and women...

If you think you can give them the finger and win this election I have ocean front land in downtown Orlando I want to sell you...

Right now Hillary Clinton has more votes and more delegates than Obama without Florida and Michigan...I admire your advocacy for Governor Dean but he's not particularly popular in Florida...Bill Nelson is the most popular Democrat in Florida, by a mile...That's why he smoked Cruella Harris and we love him for doing so...

In the coming weeks she will win WV, KY, PN, TX, and OH before this election is over and will be at parity or better in hard delegates with Obama when the primary season is over...

It is presumptuous to tell her to drop out now...She has assembled a broad coalition of the most vulnerable in society and she is not abandoning them and they are not abandoning her...

P.S. If you think Obama could ever, ever , ever beat Hillary Clinton in a closed Democratic primary in Florida you're deluding yourself...And I will put my money where my mouth is up to the amount of $1,000.00 if there is a re-do that will never, ever happen..

[madfloridian]

101. You don't get what Capn is doing, do you.

I did not think so. He has a sense of the absurd, which is what DU has become.

Heck for all you know I could be an Obama cultist or a Hilary bot.

Read Capn's post with a new look at the absurdity that is here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. I Want Hillary To Win But I Want Her To Win Fair And Square

If things are still deadlocked in June I think Clinton and Obama should agree to hold two closed primaries in Michigan and Florida, no games, no proportional representation... And the person with the most votes is the Democratic nominee... No super delegate big wig muckety muck intervention...

[madfloridian]

104. Our boss in Florida, Bill Nelson, said ABSOLUTELY not. He's in charge here.

He despises Dean, he despises progressive Democrats, he is the boss. Period. There won't be another one because he says not.

Absolutely not

[madfloridian]

105. So it IS all about Hillary and all about Florida.

And oh my God...ANYone could have beaten Harris..you sound like it is something wonderful.

I wonder why Dean is not popular in Florida...gee could it be cause Nelson hates him? And Wasserman Schultz does? And Alcee Hastings looks down his nose at Dean and the progressives?

Your quote:
"Right now Hillary Clinton has more votes and more delegates than Obama without Florida and Michigan...I admire your advocacy for Governor Dean but he's not particularly popular in Florida...Bill Nelson is the most popular Democrat in Florida, by a mile...That's why he smoked Cruella Harris and we love him for doing so..."

Hillary will win by hook or by crook. Of course she will. But if she wins unfairly I will be saving a whole lot of money monthly to the DNC....

Hillary Hillary Hillary

[McCamy Taylor]

99. This makes you sounds like a CULT, and Obama has a DIVINE MANDATE

Listen to yourselves. This is a democracy. Why should one of two candidates with equal votes bow out and let the other take over? Unless you are claiming that Obama has more right to win. And what gives him more right? More people are inspired by him? More people really want him to win?

If it is more money, then go ask Jeb Bush to run. He could raise $200 million fast.

The one with more votes at the convention wins. Work to get your candidate more votes. That is the democratic way.

[Evergreen Emerald]

106. We do need to build our strength, but not with someone who has not substance

and only talks pretty.

Clinton is the microcosom of what is wrong with our party. We allow the republicans to define her, to ridicule her, to demean her and then we throw up our hands and say she is tainted.

BS. She is a great contributor to our party. People like YOU is what is wrong with our party.