Our last nominee had money troubles

[bigtree]

why all the derision of Clinton's money troubles this time around, I presume, from the same folks, as Kerry is supporting Obama?

[blm]

1. Kerry financed campaign by mortgaging his house. We KNOW where that money came from

and Kerry was never hiding that situation from the public.


That was also well BEFORE the first caucus state Iowa. He was upfront.

Why you are insisting on making an honorable man like Kerry, who worked harder for this nation and its open government than most of DC put together, into an ethically challenged pol like Clintons is a mystery to me, bigtree.

[bigtree]

3. Where did the money from the house come from?

Parsing their income is a slippery process. Where do you start when you measure where the money comes in?

[blm]

7. He bought the house in early 80s. It appreciated greatly since then as all real estate has

in major cities. Is that strange to you on a 2 million dollar house he likely bought in early 80s for 200,000? He MORTGAGED it - he didn't write a check for 2 nil out of his bank account.

Big difference from 5 million dollar check, bigtree, that DIDN'T come from mortgaging one of her houses.

And Dubai dollars have been flowing to Bill by the millions - the SAME Dubai money that started BCCI and that Bush was going to sign over our ports to a couple years ago - a deal ADVOCATED by Bill Clinton.

But, hey, let's pretend that Bill deep-sixed BCCI report and its outstanding matters throughout the 90s just out of his commitment to good honest governance, OK?

[bigtree]

11. All of the money these public officials earn over the years

all clean? How do they become multi-millionaires, anyway?

[blm]

14. THAT's your answer to Dubai MILLIONS to the president who deep-sixed BCCI report?

The same dollars that STARTED BCCI?

[bigtree]

16. again, that's her husband. You want us to view her as inseparable from his affairs

Typical, sexist nonsense

[blm]

19. Then she'll REALLY need to keep the books closed on BushInc won't she?

With all that Dubai money flowing to both Bushes and Bill.

[bigtree]

21. I don't know that.

I do know that these charges haven't gotten very far past the pages they're written on.

[blm]

26. Neither have Bushes - why? Because Bill Clinton sided with secrecy and privilege

instead of the truth.

And THAT comes straight from the investigative reporter who uncovered IranContra.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html


But, you know that. ;)

[bigtree]

29. Robert Parry's a great journalist

[karynnj]

34. In her case, she made $100,000 from $1,000

in cattle commodity trades one year when she was First Lady in Arkansas. She was obviously very good at commodity trading. A Tyson lawyer guided her through how it is done. That was back in the 1980s.

[karynnj]

32. In Kerry's case, he inherited money from his mom and I think other relatives

He was not wealthy for most of the time he was in the Senate. He could easily have become wealthy if that had been his goal. He was considered the beat natural lawyer many had ever seen when first out of Law school. He chose public service. Between the cost of his daughters' education, child support and the cost of going back to MA every week to be with them, he actually couldn't afford appartments in both Boston and DC - so he stayed with friends. He didn't get wealthy because of his Senate job.

His wealth is from his family - and he is married to a very wealthy and incredibly nice woman.

[bigtree]

33. lots of investments. lots of transactions.

all clean? All void of questionable associations?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.asp?CID=N00000245&year=2005

[karynnj]

37. There is nothing there

Like most Americans with money, he has bought and sold stocks. The likelihood is that he has an accountant doing it. This is public as it is for any Senator. I assume the Senator avoids any purchases or sales in times where through his committee he has inside information. He has never been accused of anything like that and that record for an earlier period was public and I'm sure scrutinized by Republican accountants. If there was anything, we would have read about it on the front page of every newspaper in 2004.

It is pretty low to suggest that the mere act of owning stock is evidence of something wrong. I admit I own stocks just as many people here do - though far far less than the Senator, who is really really wealthy. Is he suppose to keep all his money under the mattress?

[bigtree]

38. he has all sorts of investments. What's LOW are these stretched out associations

making it look like Bill Clinton is conspiring with Dubai against America. It's a rumor mongering, innuendo driven, campaign hyped non-story.

[blm]

40. Not conspiring AGAINST America, but promoting Global Fascist Agenda same as GHWBush.

They just want Americans to go along with it.

And if you think the same money that started BCCI and had it covered up by Clinton and is funneling MILLIONS to him today is just a stretched out association, then you have amazing FAITH in both Clinton and Poppy Bush.

I'll bet WalMart is a great company to work for in your POV, too.

[karynnj]

41. I did not participate in that

I think there are valid questions with his Dubai connections - but they are questions, not any solid indications of wrong doing. The connection of Dubai to BCCI is real, but not everybody in Dubai was complicit with BCCI. To my knowledge, there has been NO Obama campaign allegations about this - none.

The NYT references the Burkle business connection that BC recently ended that will give him $20 million. That information was not from the Obama campaign, but from Bill Clinton. That business was not illegal and the only negative thing was that it involved off shoring - though the Clintons paid taxes as if it was in the US, which they did not have to do and which is good. The NYT noted that the timing could be good if they need money for advertising when the next big states come up - interesting only in that they did not seem to care that it was BILL'S money, not HRC's. I guess that distinction only existed for Senator Kerry.

As to Kerry - All sorts of investments? It looks like stocks and mutual funds to me. There is nothing overtly strange in that list. It is sickening that you are attempting to tarnish Kerry - I guess to say he's bad too. Wouldn't it make more sense to counter the accusations against Clinton.

[karynnj]

27. They owned the house jointly - Kerry got half of it

He has some money of his own - his mom was a Forbes. It is interesting that no one has asked about McCain, who as a 40 something married a 25 year old heiress, if he is using her money. On threads here, people are not saying that HRC can't use BC's money.

[DUyellow]

39. It came before into his campaign before IOWA! this is starting to get desperate

[Alexander]

2. Kerry had money troubles before votes were cast. Clinton's troubles are during the voting.

Since the nomination is still up in the air, Obama's excellent fundraising puts him at a huge advantage.

[bigtree]

5. he has an advantage now to buy more access and visibility

than his rival. Where does the money influence distort the process?

[blm]

9. HAHAH...ask Bill Clinton what Jackson Stephens got for bankrolling his primary campaign

and his political career in Arkansas.

You know who Jackson Stephens is don't you?

A named figure in BCCI who actually BROUGHT that bank into this country with Poppy Bush.

No worries for you that the BCCI report was deep-sixed shortly after Bill took office and was handedthat report, eh, big?

Not like those outstanding matters led to anything tragic for this country - - like 9-11, right? Or future war with Iran, eh?

[bigtree]

10. Bill Clinton, not Hillary.

You're running against the wrong person. Isn't a woman entitled to be measured on the merits of her own life, apart from her husband?

[blm]

13. Then we're back to that 5 million dollar check again, aren't we?

Joint account? Did the book sales cover ALL that? The houses weren't mortgaged to raise the dough and those are some pricey houses. So the money came from .........????

[bigtree]

15. $8 million advance alone from her latest memoir

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4446972&mesg_id=4446972

[blm]

18. And mixed in with Bill's MILLIONS from Dubai (BCCI)

.

[bigtree]

22. sez you!

and your muckraking buddies. :hi:

[abburdlen]

4. it was before Iowa

and before he was the front runner.

[bigtree]

6. right.

[abburdlen]

24. umm, yes it is right.

Kerry first loaned his campaign $800K well before Iowa back when he was polling in Sharpton range.
Clinton has been the front runner since she announced.

I'm not saying Clinton shouldn't be allowed to use her money.
The point is either her campaign didn't plan on it going on this long or they expected more money to be coming in or both.

[bicentennial_baby]

8. Before Iowa, with 5 other competitive contenders.

[KoKo]

12. She and her "handlers" made mistake "Frontloading Campaign" but so did DLC/DNC...

and many of our states. Dems miscalculated. But...then ...we always do..don't we.

Could also be Campaign Disinfo...so that she hauls in some cash. It wouldn't be the first time "false info" was floated.

[bigdarryl]

17. Not this late in the game

[Rosemary2205]

20. That's all we need is another John Kerry.

Should have won by a goddamned landslide and barely squeeked a loss. Hillary's "lending" money to her own campaign doesn't bother me in the least, but comparing her to Kerry is just pitiful on so many levels. I'm no Hillary fan, far from it, but geesh, the woman has more going for her on her WORST day than Kerry will ever have in all his days put together.

[bigtree]

23. lord knows, he had all of your support . . .

[Rosemary2205]

28. I voted for him and never once spoke ill of him prior to the election.

He was not my primary choice, needless to say. -- But come on, Kerry vs Bush? There's no way it should have been close by any measure.

[karynnj]

35. I wish we had another Kerry - or even the same Kerry

His credentials run circles around his and the Republicans had to make up things about him - he is one of the cleanest politicians around. From what he did in 1971 alone, he beats HRC, who no doubt would love to have gotten his endorsement. His email list has stayed with him for as much as 4 years now.

[karynnj]

25. In DECEMBER 2003

In December 2003, he could not get money or media. That's different then where HRC is. Then he won Iowa and NH and then had a record fund monthly raising on the internet that has still not been beat - though Obama may do it! Kerry had a very smooth race to the nomination both in winning primaries and raising more money than the people like McAuliffe ever thought possible.

Kerry's list was great in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and even 2008 - because he has kept up the communication.

[bigtree]

31. If she raises money now, will that be an indication of her worth

. . .something we can measure which has any real meaning for voters?

[LittleClarkie]

30. Beginning of the primary vs right in the middle.

Kerry gave himself money, then prevailed in Iowa and NH, and ultimately won the nom.

If Hillary can win the nomination even after running out of money right in the middle of her campaign, then good for her.

Running out of money is never good. But if you can come out on top anyway, it shows the kind of strength you'll need later.

So let her show us what she's made of.

[Straight Shooter]

36. Kerry really got up and running after Iowa because the media decimated Howard Dean.

That's a fact. The ridiculous overblown hype of the so-called "Dean Scream" was played something like 700 times or more to television audiences, over and over and over. It was played on the radio stations, over and over.

Kerry got what he deserved, in the end. Too bad we all had to pay the price with him. The weakest candidate we could ever have up against someone like george w. bush. Proof of Kerry's weakness was his rapid capitulation despite blatant election tampering shoved in everyone's faces on national television. Ohio "terrorism" threat, long lines for minority voters, on and on it went.

[karynnj]

43. The scream was after he got 18% to Kerry's 38% in Iowa

Dean's support was starting to implode before Iowa. The Dean scream if anything might have hurt Edwards and Kerry. They had both far exceeded expectation. Without the Dean Scream, the story would have been Kerry and also, to a lesser degree Edwards. It likely would have focused on Kerry's jubilant acceptance speech, surrounded by Firefighters and veterans - what better image to communicate to a scared nation. There was an enormous subconscious message that they were who you go to for help. Also, no review of Iowa would not have focused on the seminal moment - Kerry's reunion with the guy he saved. the secondary stories would be Dean's and Gephardt's disappointing results and Edwards as the other one who did extremely well.

Instead, I think there was more coverage of the Dean scream the next day than of Kerry. Edwards was lost in the shuffle. The winner the Republicans and Bush. Why, it converted what would have been a positive Democratic story (mostly for Kerry) to a negative one. I doubt many committed Dean supporters left him because of the scream. From the NH polls, it looked like many who had left Dean for Clark, left Clark for Kerry and that the undecided went for Kerry. That suggests that the reason was the positive view of Kerry was the driving force more than the scream. If anything, the Dean scream has been used to diminish Kerry's victory.

[ProSense]

42. And Bill has inserted

his foot into his mouth, again