John Kerry Loans His Campaign Money in 2004 = Good; Hillary Loans Her Campaign Money in 2008 = Bad

[tritsofme]

Sometimes its hard to grasp the logic around here.

But if you just remember Hillary = Bad and Obama = Good then you'll get along just fine.

[FrenchieCat]

1. Kerry did it to stay afloat before the first vote......

Hillary's doing it to stay afloat after 15 million votes.

Not the same thing at all!

[tritsofme]

7. After IA and NH Kerry had no serious competition.

The bulk of Hillary's support, financial and otherwise, isn't coming from the cocktail circuit, its coming from the working class and from women.

In times of recession they don't have as much money to throw towards a presidential campaign.

As long as there are people voting for Hillary en masse, it shouldn't matter if the money comes out her own wallet.

[Radical Activist]

13. give me a break

Hillary's problem is that her donor base is the wealthy who have already maxed out on their contributions. Obama has more support among small donors.

[tritsofme]

16. The economy must be doing pretty good.

It the 7.3 million people who came out voted for Hillary yesterday were all wealthy.

[onehandle]

14. Some people don't think that an even race is even.

And they don't give a shit about the supporters behind their opposition, even though they are Democrats too.

DU = Free Republic.

[karynnj]

28. He had no serious competition because he very very clearly beat them

But it was not after Iowa and NH. The momentum could have turned very quickly if there were an equally impressive Southern candidate. The next event was a multi state day with ND, SC. OK, NM, AZ, DE and MO. When he was the big winner that day he was the very likely winner.

By the way, I don't think it bad that HRC did this. I do think it is a bad sign that the campaign finances are in this condition at this point.

[VolcanoJen]

36. Hillary has maxed out 2/3 of her donor base

And didn't spend enough time on web databasing. I'm certain her small donors will start kicking in some money now that she's really asking for it... but what on earth took her so long?

Obama's camp definitely has the fundraising leg-up; it's like the Dean Model on steroids.

[Big Blue Marble]

41. Would you substantiate your claim

that most of her money is coming from working class people.

I have heard just the opposite. She had a large number of big money donors
who gave all they could early. Now she has few to go back too.

On the other hand, Obama has been receiving small amounts from people of
average means to whom he can go back again and again.

I never knew that I was on the "cocktail circuit" whatever that is. :shrug:

[beachmom]

49. That is not true. Her campaign is funded by fat cat lobbyists and millionaires

They are MAXED OUT. You can only give $2300 for the primary. Obama, OTOH, has small donors who can be tapped over and over again.

[Inspired]

45. It is the same thing. You are splitting hairs.

Am I correct in remembering that you commented something about John Edwards not following Kerry's example by using his own money? I think this comment was made after the first vote was cast.

[Alexander]

2. Kerry's $$$ troubles before voting = Good; Hillary's $$$ troubles DURING voting = Bad.

Funny how the same Shillbots who claim Kerry was a loser and his endorsement is worthless are comparing Hillary's current situation to Kerry's.

:rofl:

[bicentennial_baby]

4. Bingo

:rofl:

[JI7]

34. your post says it all

[bigtree]

51. that has nothing at all to do with the propriety of loaning the campaign her money

when it was used? at what point in the race. That may be grist for the fools who think this is something to celebrate for Obama, but it has nothing at all to do with ANYTHING regarding the legality, ethics, or adherence to party rules.

[Renew Deal]

3. We all thought Kerry was dead when he loaned that money.

So it was bad then and it's bad now. Of course, we were wrong in 2004. ;)

[rinsd]

5. Good or bad remains to be seen. If she wins, it was a good move, if she doesn't it was not.

[Stand and Fight]

6. Typical DU hypocrisy at its worst and most pathetic. n/t

[rodeodance]

8. Bingo

[blm]

17. Did Kerry's money come from his HOME MORTGAGE or from Dubai?

If you think there's no difference.....

how many of you even KNOW that the same Dubai source giving millions to Bill also started BCCI? The same BCCI investigated for over 5 years by John Kerry whose report was handed to a new Dem president in Jan 1993. The BCCI matters outstanding were deep-sixed throughout the 90s.

[tritsofme]

19. Oh no, another Clinton money conspiracy.

Where does Vince Foster fit into all of this?

[blm]

22. You want to claim Dubai money is pure? 20 million that just recently went into Bill's account?

Go ahead. You'll accept anything if you think Dubai bucks are clean.

[Stand and Fight]

44. Yeah, I know and, frankly, I don't care!

It's old news. You haters are going to have to do better than that.

[blm]

60. You didn't lose any friends or family or freedom on 9-11?

Anyone who did SHOULD CARE.

You want war with Iran? You're gonna get because BCCI report's outstanding matters were deep-sixed to protect Jackson Stephens, GHWBUsh, Dubai and Saudi royals, AQ Khan, Marc Rich, and scores more.

Yeah. Don't care. What responsible citizen cares about open government accountable to the people anyway?

[bigtree]

52. Kerry's got millions in investments. What are the associations with those investments?

They can also be strung out to associate him with some flunky down the line.

Also, there is more than a little sexism involved in holding Hillary accountable for the actions of her husband in this regard. She has her own money, more than enough to cover the paltry $5 million. The time to debate the financial affairs of Bill Clinton ended when he finished his second-term.

[blm]

55. Baloney - Bill ADVOCATED for Dubai to get control of OUR PORTS. That matters.

You want to pretend all of this is benign, but how did the deep-sixing of all the outstanding matters in BCCI work out for you, for Dem party, for the 9-11 families, this country, for the world?

Actions have CONSEQUENCES - LONGTERM CONSEQUENCES. And now you want the rest of us to go along with the CONTINUATION of the coverups of BushInc just so you can maintain your faith in the Clintons.

[ProSense]

9. Bill say self-financing "would clearly violate the spirit of campaign finance reform."

here.

[Colobo]

33. LOL!

[blm]

10. Kerry MORTGAGED his house long before Iowa. Bill just got 20 million that tracks

back to Dubai who just happened to be the source that STARTED a bank called BCCI. BCCI report and its outstanding matters were deep-sixed throughout the 90s by President.......Name that president.

[Nimrod2005]

11. Ross Perot did it too....They all lost

[robbedvoter]

20. Kerry won. Wimped out afterwards.

[Colobo]

35. Kerry lost in 04, dude. That's life.

[KittyWampus]

12. Kerry released his tax return. His wife didn't, but they kept their funds completely seperate

[karynnj]

30. Teresa released hers later to avoid it being a controversy

She was reluctant initially as it also showed things that involved her sons' finances as well. There was nothing the least bit questionable.

[Raine]

15. Who claims it was good because it wasn't

it's never good when they have to fund their own campaign cause they can't get it from donors. Kerry lost, that shows how "good" it was.

[robbedvoter]

21. Kerry won. And I don't remember any outrage back then.

[LittleClarkie]

27. He won the nomination. Hillary will need to do the same.

It was not good when Kerry had to do it. It's never good. But if you can come through adversity in your primary campaign and ultimately win the nomination, then it's all good. If you don't, not so much.

[karynnj]

31. He won the nomination

[Skip Intro]

18. It's Obamalogic. Steer clear.

[LittleClarkie]

23. It will be good if she ultimately wins the nom.

Kerry loans self money and wins nom = good

Clinton loans self money and... we shall see. She wins = good. She tanks = not so much.

Also, Kerry loaned self money at beginning of primary season vs running out right in the middle.

Kerry won, so he was able to fundraise and build the big mo'.

Hillary better win, after so publically running out of money right in the middle of the primary.

In some ways it's the timing that makes it seem kinda bad. But if she can ultimately prevail, it will have been good training for her for the general election. What does not kill you makes you stronger.

[wain]

24. Why did Hillary announce her contribution AFTER Super Tuesday

and not before?

[tritsofme]

25. What difference does it make?

nt

[guruoo]

40. Exactly.

[MoonRiver]

26. And all of this shit = HYPOCRISY

A brokered convention is NOTHING in comparison to what is going on with the anti-Hillary media and partisan spin going on right now.

[AZBlue]

Sorry - computer/user error

Dupe!

[AZBlue]

29. I don't agree much with it anytime, for anyone.

I am swayed slightly by the argument that he did it before the voting started, it was the beginning of the campaign, etc. But, still...it bothers me. Definitely at this point it shows she's NOT the one that Americans are willing to support.

[tritsofme]

37. Does money equal support, or do votes equal support?

We are in a recession, some of Hillary's strongest groups, women and the working poor, can't exactly afford to donate to a political campaign doesn't mean they don't support her.

[beachmom]

50. Sorry, I don't buy that. What about the elderly lady who gave Obama $3.01

with a scripture in the envelope? The truth is that Hillary has all the pros and Democratic Establishment (all across the country) working for her, which is impressive. But the small donors are overall going to Obama. The little guys, who usually have $10 to give, are going with Obama.

And it is insulting to say "women" don't have the money. Yes, we do.

[AX10]

32. kick

[TankLV]

38. so now we know obama and his bots are bad at math, too...

god help the country if he even gets NEAR Our White House!!!

[guruoo]

39. yeah, noticed that.

[JI7]

42. considering that Kerry is the loser that nobody likes, why would Hillary

do anything he does.

[Unbowed]

43. I feel to see why it would be bad for any candidate to loan their campaign money.

Campaigns cost money. What's wrong with a candidate putting a bit of their own money on the line?

More power to any candidate who puts their money where their mouth is.

[wyldwolf]

46. then you see the spinning/retro-active caveats

"but the reason it was OK for Kerry is he did it BEFORE the primaries. In the secret book of Democratic politics, on page #23, it says that it's bad to do this only AFTER the primaries start."


Hey, here's another name. John McCain. He did it, too.

[sendero]

47. Where does a sitting senator..

... get $5 million ?

[bigtree]

53. don't be foolish. She got an $8 million advance alone for her latest book.

[onenote]

59. you realize that a substantial proportion the US Senate is made up of multimillionaires dont' you?

[beachmom]

48. Actually, it was considered bad at the time. Only when he started

winning did it seem "good".

This is how it always goes in politics especially to the DC press corps: whatever you do that allows you to win is "good" and whatever you do and you end up losing is "bad".

The jury is still out for Hillary lending herself money. It IS a big story because it is surprising.

[bigtree]

54. I remember Edwards complaining about being up against two well-financed candidates

for some, those considerations go out the window when it's their candidate who's flush.

[jillan]

56. All the pundits mentioned the same exact fact.

[Occam Bandage]

57. Um, who considered Kerry's early cash-flow problems in '04 to be a good thing?

[Fabio]

58. I think it's fine either way.

[jeffrey_X]

61. Who said it was "bad?"

???

[ProSense]

62. Bill

here.