Obama, "We Are No Longer A Christian Nation,"

[andyrowe]

"at least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation and a nation of non-believers."

source -- Imagine Barack Obama

Yes, I can.

[my2sense]

1. My favorite video so far n/t

[andyrowe]

3. Mine too but

I know there'll be more inspiring videos to come.

[MH1]

2. It's great

he mentioned Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...and non-believers too.

[andyrowe]

6. Refreshingly brave statement on religion.

You've got to admit.

[polichick]

4. That's a wonderful paragraph!

[andyrowe]

7. Agreed

:toast:

[David Zephyr]

5. "At least not just"

I wish you'd had that in your title. Great video.

[andyrowe]

9. Appreciated. You've got to lure 'em in though.

Got to get them ready to Imagine Barack Obama.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. He is either lying or ignorant. We have NEVER been a Christian nation

We have always been a secular nation, and may we forever be so.

[andyrowe]

11. For a period of our history, some christians have claimed

it was. In fact, some still do today.

[dchill]

80. "some christians have claimed..."

FERVENTLY!

[abburdlen]

31. He's neither

but it helps understand if you read what he said.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

...but here's the part that ought to put your mind at ease on whether he's going to be some sort of theocrat
I want to talk a little bit about what conservative leaders need to do -- some truths they need to acknowledge.

For one, they need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland who didn't want the established churches to impose their views on folks who were getting happy out in the fields and teaching the scripture to slaves. It was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it.

Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that heir proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

I'm proud atheist and had concerns when I first looked at Obama. A little digging and research put any fears to rest.

[andyrowe]

34. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

Stating something like he's either lying or ignorant is a sneaky way of limiting the interpretation of what he was actually saying.

[TechBear_Seattle]

70. Sometimes, it really is that either/or, despite what Rovians want to believe

Look at the line, "we are no longer just a Christian nation...." The point that Obama is making is hinged on the statement that the United States, at some point in the past, was "just a Christian nation." That is flat-out untrue. Despite the desperate perception by some people that Obama is God Returned To Earth and The Savior Of America, the fact that he said something does not make what he says true.

If Obama knows that we were never "just a Christian nation," then he is lying when he implies otherwise.

If Obama does not know that we were never "just a Christian nation," then he is woefully ignorant of American history.

Please explain any additional alternatives, as I don't see any.

[TechBear_Seattle]

69. I was responding based on what the OP posted

Apologies for not taking the time to dig deeper.

[abburdlen]

96. no problem

:toast:

[RockyTorres]

10. He can't believe that

While I know our country was not found on Christianity, Obama needs to face reality. I do not condone religion in government issues, but try telling that to someone from Alabama or the BIBLE BELT south. Many of those people will vote for a candidate just soley based on their religious convictions. I do not agree with their reasoning, but with primaries in states such as Ohio and Texas, he needs to watch what he says. While he will not carry rural areas, there are still votes out there and believe it or not, most of those areas (in Ohio and Texas) are full of Christians...

[andyrowe]

12. It's taken from the video. You missed the "at least not just." n/t

[RockyTorres]

25. I know that...But

I know that but do not think for a second that that piece of film will not be cut off and spun...especially if he wins the nomination and goes to the general election...

[andyrowe]

27. People are smart enough to see he was being inclusive.

Even christians.

[FrenchieCat]

13. It is time to change the politics of intolerance for those who believe different from other.....

that's what this campaign is all about. Banishing the politics of hate.

[robbedvoter]

18. How about those like the founders who believe in separation of church and state?

Are atheists citizens?

[andyrowe]

24. Obama says yes!

:toast:

[andyrowe]

30. Well said.

:toast:

[abburdlen]

22. welcome to DU

I'm sure many if not most of the people who voted for him in Kansas & 'bama & everywhere else are self described Christians
I also think most of them understand that this can be a nation mostly of Christians without being a Christian nation.

[andyrowe]

26. Agreed

:toast:

[sakabatou]

14. We never were

Treaty of Tripoli.

[Stephanie]

15. Exactly

[andyrowe]

16. I follow you but the religious right has pressed that point and

Obama is willing to speak against it this thinking.

[Eric J in MN]

33. Also, Thomas Jefferson wasn't a Christian.

He didn't believe Jesus was divine. He published a version of the Bible with all the miracles taken out.

[andyrowe]

35. I didn't know he has published his own version of the bible.

Neat.

[robbedvoter]

17. We were NEVER a Christian nation. Separation of church and state - remember that one?

[andyrowe]

19. I do. And Obama is reminding the right of this.

[JackRiddler]

20. Yes and no - the Constitutional Convention came close

to establishing a religion (banning Catholics from office, for starters). I think the vote was something like 38-30, someone else will let us know.

[stillcool]

85. I guess it depends on...

how you look at it...

The Constitution and Voting Rights

The U.S. Constitution left the issue of voting rights up to the states. The only thing that the Constitution said about voting was that those entitled to vote for the "most numerous Branch of the state legislature" could vote for members of the House of Representatives

1776 to 1779

White men had the right to vote and take part in government, but usually had to meet certain qualifications, like owning property. Six state governments eliminated all property requirements and gave the right to vote to all white males over twenty-one years of age, rich or poor.

At the same time, three other state governments increased the property requirements, limiting the right to vote. In some states, the right to vote included the requirement that a person belong to a particular religious group.

http://www.lwvabc.org/pubs/history_of_vote.html

http://www.historynow.org/09_2004/historian.html
The basic principle that governed voting in colonial America was that voters should have a "stake in society." Leading colonists associated democracy with disorder and mob rule, and believed that the vote should be restricted to those who owned property or paid taxes. Only these people, in their view, were committed members of the community and were sufficiently independent to vote. Each of the thirteen colonies required voters either to own a certain amount of land or personal property, or to pay a specified amount in taxes.

Many colonies imposed other restrictions on voting, including religious tests. Catholics were barred from voting in five colonies and Jews in four.

The right to vote varied widely in colonial America. In frontier areas, seventy to eighty percent of white men could vote. But in some cities, the percentage was just forty to fifty percent.
------------
By 1790, all states had eliminated religious requirements for voting. As a result, approximately sixty to seventy percent of adult white men could vote. During this time, six states (Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Vermont) permitted free African-Americans to vote.

[smalll]

21. "We Are No Longer A Christian Nation" --

May be true, but if Hillary's middle name was Hussein, somehow I think she'd make a point of NOT saying things like that. Guess that's just what comes from inexperience. :shrug:

[andyrowe]

23. The chorus of cynics grows louder and more

dissonant.

[gmudem]

51. So now stating facts about America shows inexperience?

Is it possible for Clintonites to not spin something?

[dchill]

81. And the list of things...

Hillary is NOT saying would grow even longer...
Political expedience - what a VIRTUE!

[jasmine621]

28. So, we are all those nations.. What happened to "one nation?" nt

[andyrowe]

29. They are all facets of our one nation.

Like a gemstone.

[Recursion]

37. I didn't see "many nations" there

One nation. We're a nation that is Buddhist, a nation that is Muslim, a nation that is Christian, a nation that is Jewish, a nation that is Freethinking. It's greater than the sum of the parts.

[andyrowe]

38. Well said.

We've got the cynics on the run!

[Apollo11]

64. My head is spinning!

So my car can be a red car, a green car, a blue car, a black car AND a white car. All at the same time.

Man! I tell ya! That is some freakin' car I got here! B-)

[Bongo Prophet]

68. No, you live in a country that has all those colors of cars and you are free to choose

You could also have a multi-color car if you want. That would be cool.

You were probably just kidding, though, right? ;)

[TeamJordan23]

32. Great video. nm

[andyrowe]

36. I stumbled onto it shortly after it was posted.

It's got me fired up.

[andyrowe]

39. You have to admit that it's a brave statement

for an aspiring President to make.

[kelligesq]

40. " Nation of non-believers" ? panderer- like he doesnt know the word atheist

what a bullcrap artist

[jberryhill]

41. "Non-believers" is probably more inclusive

An agnostic is a non-believer.

An atheist is a non-believer in one sense, but is a believer in a specific negative proposition.

But, my goodness, the statement left out Zoroastrians, Scientologists, Pagans, and a lot of others. I doubt it was intended to be a precise catalog of all species of belief and non-belief.

He didn't get anywhere near the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[andyrowe]

44. Scientologists are for Ron Paul. The FSM has endorsed

Obama. We are unstoppable now.

[JustinL]

42. he does know the word atheist

speech at Ebeneezer Baptist Church

start listening at 16:29

That's how Dr. King led this country through the wilderness. He did it with words -- words that he spoke not just to the children of slaves, but the children of slaveowners; words that inspired not just black, but also white; not just Christian, but also Jew and Muslim and Buddhists and atheists; not just the southerner, but also the northerner.

[andyrowe]

46. Good eye. Besides non-believer isn't any less dangerous

than saying atheist I feel.

[andyrowe]

43. The chorus of cynics grows louder and more

dissonant.

[gmudem]

52. I'm an atheist

Don't see any problem with that term. You're nitpicking.

[andyrowe]

54. Agreed.

:toast:

[Apollo11]

56. "Humanist" is more positive

"Atheist" is just another word for non-believer.

It's a way of labelling someone for what they don't believe in.

[andyrowe]

57. I believe Humanist has been co-opted by Satan worshippers.

Wait. Are there two p's in worshippers?

[Apollo11]

58. OK then. How about "Rationalist"

People who believe in reason, as advocated by Thomas Paine and Al Gore.

[andyrowe]

59. I like.

But do you think one can believe in God and be a Rationalist? I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

[Apollo11]

62. Maybe

But as a Rationalist I would have to ask what is the basis for believing in "God"?

Is there any actual evidence or is it just because everyone keeps talking about it/him/her?

[andyrowe]

63. Got me there. I'm the last one to argue that

religion is rational.

Though I do miss "This Week In God" on the daily show. I hope they settle that strike on Saturday.

[jberryhill]

89. Ever been to Montana?

Ever met anyone from Montana?

I have no objective evidence that there is a Montana. I only know what I've been told about it.

[jberryhill]

88. Do atheists have to be rational?

I affirm the humanity of irrational atheists as well as rational atheists.

Did Obama mention them?

Dang... it's going to have be a much longer list next time.

[jberryhill]

87. So... what do you have against Nihilists?

Picking out non-humanist atheists for abuse, eh?

[Indenturedebtor]

75. Um your forgot the

:sarcasm: part at the end of your message. I know what you meant though ;)

How many points in his favor do you people have to dismiss before your words sound hollow to your own ears? That's gonna be interesting.

[dchill]

83. I am a non-believer who does NOT...

consider himself an atheist. The correct term is agnostic. Get a grip - and a dictionary.

[jberryhill]

90. Well there you go...

Obama referred to non-believers, not disbelievers.

You radical fundamentalist agnostics are dangerous folks.

[dchill]

98. I just hope...

that we are dangerous enough.

[demokatgurrl]

95. Afraid of the word "atheist", probably. n/t

[Leeny]

101. Not all non-believers are atheists

Atheist means that you believe that there is not a god. Some non-believers, like me, are agnostics. So I think he used the best word he could to describe.

[Leeny]

100. From a non-believer AND non-atheist

I'm a non-believer... don't believe in "god"... but I'm also NOT an atheist. Atheist means that you believe that there is not a "god". I think the accepted label for me is agnostic. I, however, prefer free-thinker. So... I think non-believer IS the right word.:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Another atheist here, who thinks you're nit-picking.

I'm thrilled with the sentiment behind his statement.

At a time when this "Christian Nation" bullshit is rampant, I think it's right on target.

[Kitty Herder]

45. Wonderful! I can't believe he was brave enough to say that! nt

[andyrowe]

47. Shows he aspires to do the people's work and not just

to get to sit in the Oval Office.

[andyrowe]

48. I hope someday you'll join us kick.

:hide:

[loveangelc]

49. sadly, that clip will be used by the RNC in the ge.

:-/

[andyrowe]

50. Have no fear!!

The chorus of cynics will be drowned out by the power of the voices of millions!

[Kitty Herder]

53. I dunno. The people who believe this is a Christian nation outnumber us sane folks.

But still, I'm glad he said it.

[Apollo11]

55. How can America be all of those nations at the same time?

I think the word Obama is looking for is "secular".

As in - "We are a secular nation".

As in - separation of Church and State.

I know - it's kind of old-fashioned.

Plus - religious nuts don't like it.

[andyrowe]

60. So, what exactly about non-believers bothered you? n/t

[CompSciStudent]

61. A new BO lie: 83 % of Americans Say They're Christian, 13 % no religion, 4 % others

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/beliefnet_poll_010718.html
---------------------------------------------------

This poll used an open-ended question to gauge religious affiliation: "What if anything is your religion?" Most of the 50 affiliations cited are Christian denominations, ranging from the Assembly of God to the United Church of Christ. Added up they show that 53 percent of Americans are Protestants, 22 percent Catholics and 8 percent other Christians, such as Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses.

Protestant Groups
The largest group within the ranks of American Protestants is unaffiliated: Nineteen percent of Americans say they're Protestants, but don't cite a specific denomination. They account for more than a third of all Protestants.

Another 15 percent of Americans identify themselves as Baptists or Southern Baptists, meaning this group accounts for nearly three in 10 Protestants. No other Protestant denomination comes close in size.

Baptists are especially prevalent among black Americans: Nearly half of blacks, 48 percent, say they're Baptists, making it far and away their No. 1 denomination (next are nondenominational, at 15 percent of blacks, and Methodist, at 8 percent of blacks). Among whites, 22 percent are Catholics, another 22 percent are nonaffiliated Protestants and 13 percent are Baptists.

Blacks, who are overwhelmingly Christian, are also more likely than whites to have any religion: Just 3 percent of blacks say they have no religion, compared to 13 percent of whites. ("No religion" includes people who describe their religion as atheist or agnostic.)

----------------------------------------

[andyrowe]

65. Really CompSciStudent?

Really!?

[riverdale]

71. It looks like MySpace is a Christian space though

http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living-0/1201772086310820.xml&coll=2

[Occam Bandage]

73. How is that a lie? 1/5 of people are not Christian. That means we are not just a Christian nation.

[Indenturedebtor]

78. BWAHAHA

Welcome to DU! :wave:

Enjoy your stay and please give my regards to free republic when you get back there.

Oh and kick Rovey Poo in the sack for me would you? Thanks :wave:

[andyrowe]

66. How many people have jumped/will jump the gun and

reply to this without watching the linked video first?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

67. about 40-45% is my guess, its a great video n/t

[jillan]

72. We are not a Christian nation - We are an Obamanation.

The new religion!!!!

[Mass]

77. Better than a Clinton nation or a Bush nation.

[Skip Intro]

74. The repukes are salivating.

[Thrill]

76. Yup of a Clinton nomination

10+ years of dirt, scandals, and hate to throw at her

[Indenturedebtor]

79. Yeah we should all dump Obama

And jump on the Triangulator Train! What we need is a cold calculating politician who's in bed with corporations and cares more about winning than honesty and promoting progressive ideals.

Now where do we look for someone like that... hrmmmm :P

[rodeodance]

84. well, it WILL make a good slogan for them.

[andyrowe]

91. Perhaps, but it's not enough to sway my vote.

I'm fired up.

[abburdlen]

97. I'd *love* for the GOP to attack

Obama for this.
McCain calls on Obama in a debate for daring to say we aren't "a Christian nation"
Obama says "Well it isn't John, and you and your second wife ought to be glad."

Yes. Please let the republicans use this to attack Obama.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. What, precisely, in that statement do you disagree with?

:shrug:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

82. as a Clinton supporter I agree with him as well does Hillary on this issue

[andyrowe]

86. I love it when Obama and Hillary supporters agree.

:toast:

[HughMoran]

92. You forgot this

Yes, I can :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[Infinite Hope]

93. That was a great video. Can you link it here? I forgot to bookmark it. n/t

[andyrowe]

102. The link is in the original post.

Or you can search "imagine barack obama" on youtube.

[demokatgurrl]

94. Great, but why does his campaign go so far out of their

way to say how CHRISTIAN he is, and he's not a Muslim, NO NO NO!!!!

As a non-Christian, I find it worrisome that the President has to be vetted for Christianity.

[krabigirl]

99. I can't believe it. Wow, it's about time he acknowledged non-believers.

But his rhetoric belies that. He doesn't mean what he says, sorry.