Guardian (UK): "Perhaps I should join the cult"

[bidenista]

Buzzmachine.com's Jeff Jarvis, writing in the UK's Guardian, has some remarks about the Obama "movement":

Perhaps I should join the cult

Jeff Jarvis
February 6, 2008 6:10 PM

The contrast in Barack Obama's and Hillary Clinton's campaigns - and their voters - is starkly illustrated in their Super Tuesday speeches. Obama is the orator, Clinton the manager. Obama's crowd behaves like a devoted cult. Clinton's like a well-behaved class. Obama has succeeded - with considerable help from the media - at portraying his campaign as a movement, while Clinton's is, well, a campaign.

My problem with his campaign is also illustrated in this speech. Though he catalogues his issues - Iraq, health care, the standard list - his message is made up of little more than stock marketing taglines. He's not so much running for office as branding himself.

Listen to last night's medley of his greatest hits: "Our time has come... Our movement is real... Change is coming to America... We are more than a collection of red states and blue states. We are and always will be the United States of America... This time can be different.... Not this time. Not this year.... This time we have to seize the moment.... This fall, we owe the American people a real choice.... We have to choose between change and more of the same, we have to choose between looking backwards and looking forward. We have to choose between our future and our past.... We can do this... We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.... Yes we can.... Yes we can...." Cue crowd chanting: "Yes we can..."

His supporters, including many New York friends of mine, buy his image and believe he is less political and that he is indeed different. I think he's more political and his campaign is the greatest example of the selling of the president I've yet seen. To state it harshly, I say that relying on these stock phrases - believing that we are going to swallow empty oratory about "change" punctuated with chants of "yes we can" - is a cynical political act...

More: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jeff_jarvis/2008/02/the_power_of_oratory.html

Edited to add:

Here's a cute visual aid...

[polichick]

1. Hmm, sort of a cynical look at "a cynical political act" nt

[bidenista]

2. seems pretty accurate to me. nt

[Skwmom]

47. So is this how we should view our great historical leaders, with

great oratory skills, who led this nation through some of our darkest times?

Hmmm... does Clinton's buddy Murdoch own the paper?

[thunder rising]

3. Not imaginative enough to write your own smear, huh?

If you listen in between the feel good phrases you will hear a listing of almost every issue facing the United States. He knows the issues and what he does not address in the speeches he has policies posted on his site. You are worse than the regular Hillary snakes, you're a lazy Hillary snake.

[BostonMa]

4. ""Obama's crowd behaves like a devoted cult. Clinton's like a well-behaved class.""

[kelligesq]

26. I've heard them compared to Moonies,...it's getting pretty bad when people start talking like that

[bidenista]

5. heh

[BlackVelvet04]

8. It's not enough to slap something up on a website......

anybody can do that. he doesn't have a real grasp on the issues as has been proved in the debates when he has to stray from the canned speech.

[KittyWampus]

13. He did quite well in the debates. The last one HE talked about Health Care in detail

after Hillary's vague bullshit.

Read the transcript for PROOF of what I just wrote.

[BlackVelvet04]

20. I've watched every one of them, thank you.....

I don't need to read a transcript. While he did do better in the last debate he still gets off topic and rattled when he gets thrown a curve ball. And Hillary wasn't the least bit vague, you might want to read that transcript yourself.

[kelligesq]

25. that is the talk that is sending DU dems to the polls for Hillary - insult another dem and see

what it will get you

not very bright.

[candice]

6. Karl Rove hasn't...ANY discrepancy in the autobiography or evasions...

...such as the pretense to not be taking lobbyist money will be hashed and re-hashed.

A candidate who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

[robbedvoter]

7. Interesting chart of the media coverage too

[bidenista]

10. says it all

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. GEEZ! Even the people in the UK have noticed too!

:rofl: This says so much about his followers. When will start handing out the flowers at the airports and shaving their heads?

[Eric J in MN]

49. Jeff Jarvis is a New Yorker. NT

NT

[Hutzpa]

71. These Assholes are all part of the

Clinton machine, worn out fuckas, your days are numbered.

So, since they now know I'm on to their little games, they're

using Guardian as a Liberal Newspaper, the fact of the matter is

Guardian is more of an moderate conservative newspaper.

'you can't fool all of the people all the time'

Its time Billarys campaign stop playing voters

like its a game, this is not a game, people are losing

their homes, jobs, the economy is in dire.

THIS IS NOT A GAME!!

[BooScout]

89. Trust me......people in the UK have noticed.....

The OP sums it up nicely. I have had quite a few people comment to me along the same lines......either saying his followers seem like members of a cult or religious fanatics following a televangelist.

[KittyWampus]

11. the fool writing this obviously has issues with success. Obama has policies, they're posted & he

discusses them.

He also has a very effective Persona.

This is 2008.

You'd think the sanctimonious prig penning this nonsense would understand the import of swaying people to your cause.

And that doesn't even begin to acknowledge the need to overcome the divisive bullshit thrown out by the GOP and Rove for the last 50 years.

[Donnachaidh]

17. so will that *persona* give us universal health coverage?

You know, the kind of coverage that doesn't involve all the health insurance companies that have given donations to his campaign?

Enquiring minds want to know...

[KittyWampus]

19. check out the last debate. Obama & Hillary debated that very issue. At length. And NO candidate

Edwards included offers or offered Universal Health Care.

[BlackVelvet04]

23. Sure...

it's every one else's problem...they have trouble with success, Obama is a very effective persona who sways people to his cause. Do you have any idea how cultish that all sounds? I guess not and you probably aren't going to get it.

[kelligesq]

29. that's the turnoffs- anyone who disagrees is a fool - prig -snake-

[KittyWampus]

85. you can disagree with Obama's policies but to claim he hasn't any is dishonest.

To attack him because his speeches inspire people is either cynical or sanctimonious.

[Sapphocrat]

30. One would think YOU...

...would stop sputtering long enough to listen to what he's saying -- because, my angry little foot-stomper, the writer has summed up quite nicely the chillingly empty, meaningless BAM-O-Rama "Gimme some of that" Cult-O'-Personality that stops the rest of us dead in our tracks.

But making you stop and THINK for a change while you're rolling on the floor in a high state of Slain-in-The-BAM hysteria is probably too much to ask.



On edit: Yet another typo

[Bluebear]

37. "BAM-O-Rama"

God you make me laugh :loveya:

[Cameron27]

53. Perfect!

:thumbsup:

:rofl:

[jillan]

12. I can heal the nation, I can bring us all together as one,

no more hatred, no more divisiveness.

Hallelujah! Glory be!

;)

[Qutzupalotl]

92. The "vision thing"

[TomClash]

14. Jeff Jarvis is a bloody bore

He knows something about image and that is all he knows. He's a fine example of exactly what he criticizes.

[calmblueocean]

46. Exactly.

I wrote a little more on exactly the same subject downthread. The man is vapid.

[dpbrown]

15. He's the Brittany Spears President

A media creation.

[chascarrillo]

16. Keep hate alive!

[Sapphocrat]

22. You do, you do, every day. n/t

[AX10]

18. Multi-term GOP congressman and Ambassader to NATO supports HRC!

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=16746

Now that's substance!
:dem:

[Sapphocrat]

21. Says it all for me. K&R. n/t

On edit: Typo

[Proud2BAmurkin]

24. ouch

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. That is exactly how I feel

Lots of pretty words--but it is all fluff and glitz and media spin.

[NMMNG]

28. K&R

We're voting for a president here, not someone to make us feel groovy and fabulous. This isn't church or a love-in. We need solutions and plans, not "inspiration". I went to an HRC rally and heard exactly what she was going to do. Nobody was crying and sharing "conversion stories". Nobody was running around wanting to give me their fifth-hand sweat that they'd gotten off Hillary's handshake. It was a political rally, not a revival.

That's the difference.

[Bluebear]

31. Get a load of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0

[Sapphocrat]

32. "He's a great OR-A-TATOR, just like Jesse Jackson."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so I'll just ask: How did Hannity get all those DUers in the same room at once???

[Bluebear]

33. Someone had clasped Barack's hands a few months ago, & they were having a BAM chain.

[bidenista]

42. was that a joke or for real? nt

[Bluebear]

44. Oh that was quite real.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

61. Yeah ... that post really creeped me out.

[bidenista]

34. that was a jawdrop moment. what a douche. nt

[NMMNG]

35. "Uuuuuummmm"

Look at all the deer in the headlights. :rofl:

[Bluebear]

36. "It's a room full of Miss South Carolinas" says a poster lol

[NMMNG]

38. ......

:spray:

[kurth]

43. Basic question in a job interview

[guruoo]

39. All this does is provide fuel to the irrational hillary hating bandwagon.

[Lucinda]

40. Yup.

Sums it up for me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

41. If it gets a Dem elected in November, Hare Krishna baby! nt

[calmblueocean]

45. Are you kidding me? Jeff "I love war & TV Guide" Jarvis?

The guy who brought us the hard-hitting issues-based journalism of Entertainment Weekly and People has the nerve to call Obama shallow? Good lord. Jarvis is one of the people most responsible for the vacuous, celebrity-obsessed insight-free infotainment that characterizes our media today.

Here's a quote from his blog in 2003:

What if the public hates public affairs?

: I dread Sunday mornings because TV and radio are filled with alleged "public affairs" programming, which is really just dutiful crap meant to appease bureaucrats and pressure groups. ... I can't stand any of it. Public affairs programming has absolutely no value to me as a member of said public. ...

And the truth is that TV is not the ideal medium for pubic affairs programming. That's because TV is first and foremost an entertainment medium, more than an information medium or an interactive medium. ...So perhaps the broadcasters should be freed from their public-affairs obligation. Perhaps TV stations should just go about their business as TV stations and their audiences will tell them when they serve their interests.

Yet apparently he bases his entire impression -- his very vote -- only on Obama's TV performances. This snarking about Obama as "celebrity" is a habit of a lot of beardstroking, self-congratulatory pundits who, ironically, show themselves pathologically unable to focus on policy issues themselves, preferring instead to pontificate about the very important TV they watched. This is the same mentality that brought us John Edwards as "Breck Girl" instead of John Edwards as poverty advocate.

And Jarvis had the biggest war hard-on ever in 2002, cheerleading the war endlessly, even though it was clear from its birth that the war was never about bringing democracy; that there was no plan to win the peace; that the occupation and reconstruction was being handled corruptly and with stunning, never-seen-before incompetence.

Do you think that heaping helping of cognitive dissonance might have something to do for his voting for the candidate that voted to go to war, rather than the one who -- wisely -- spoke out against it? Does the fact that Obama's wisdom here shows him to have better judgment than the "manager" Clinton even matter to him? You'd think it should, unless of course, he's just voting on their TV images instead of their records.

Jarvis. Is. A. Hack.

[TomClash]

83. Very good post

I fleshes out y terse, lazy post above. :)

[bagimin]

94. Sounds like a brain surgeon..

Can't mungbrains see the difference between Rev. Moon and Senator Obama who fires up crowds with unique oratory?

[bagimin]

95. Sounds like a brain surgeon..

Can't mung-brains see the difference between Rev. Moon and Senator Obama who fires up crowds with unique oratory?

[Straight Shooter]

48. Barack's followers can howl about the author if they want. The Guardian is quite well-respected.

Looks like the New York Times and The Guardian have delivered their own BAM! BAM! to the cult.

Barack's followers don't understand that hints are being dropped in increasingly not so subtle ways to let you know that a lot of people don't like what they're seeing.

[calmblueocean]

50. I know the author's writings well. He's a war hawk. Has been for years.

He was a great big cheerleader of the war, hated Howard Dean, too.

[Straight Shooter]

64. That doesn't change the fact that the story is in The Guardian.

Next thing you know, the "cult" word will be on the BBC, or in the Washington Post. Drudge might pick up on it and then it will spread like wildfire through the blogosphere and then into the so-called MSM. Hell, Tweety made a reference to Barack as being "New Testament" in a way that implied Barack was some sort of, I don't know, mythical figure or something.

Obama, Axelrod and Gibbs created this monster, now they have to deal with it. Maybe Oprah can have a show with cult experts, explaining what defines a cult, the signs of a cult, blah blah blah. You know how Oprah's guests are.

[calmblueocean]

70. Jarvis is a warmongering hack, whether he's published in the Guardian or not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4448476&mesg_id=4451042

[Thrill]

51. So now we're for low key boring crowds? LOL. The same thing us Democrats laugh at the

Republicans for? You can't make this stuff up

[LadyVT]

52. Thanks for posting this.

"You are cynical" for questioning ANYTHING that Obama does. So goes America. "The End of America," by Naomi Wolff. One Good Book.

[rodeodance]

54. well, we knew the World was watching us--

[rodeodance]

55. ha ha--Obama's 'souring rhetoric"-- ho ho ho

[meow mix]

56. obama stare!

lol, funny

[Cameron27]

57. K&R

[AGirl]

58. LOL AT THE CARTOON. heh.

[rodeodance]

59. Obama's crowd behaves like a devoted cult----OUCHIE!!

February 6, 2008 6:10 PM | Printable version

The contrast in Barack Obama's and Hillary Clinton's campaigns - and their voters - is starkly illustrated in their Super Tuesday speeches.

Obama is the orator, Clinton the manager. Obama's crowd behaves like a devoted cult Clinton's like a well-behaved class. Obama has succeeded - with considerable help from the media - at portraying his campaign as a movement, while Clinton's is, well, a campaign.

Obama's 21 minutes:

[VotesForWomen]

60. well, he's got a point. nt

[SaveOurDemocracy]

62. Oooohhhh the cartoon!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Norrin Radd]

63. Care Bears and college age? Huh?

Care Bears were of my generation, people in their 30's who grew up in the 1980's. College kids now were born in the late 80's early 90's.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

65. Care Bears were still around when my

sons (18 and 16) were little.

[Exultant Democracy]

66. So it is the college youth that is nostalgia obsessed, I thought we were bitching about their Ipods

and MyFace pages, I guess I missed that backflip too.

[DemGa]

67. Holy crap!! This Obama-cult talk is really gaining ground!!

I could never have expected this, it's very bizarre!

[557188]

68. If it talks, walks and quacks like a cult...

Maybe it actually is one.

[ProSense]

69. Here:

The meme is that Hillary is being defeated by a "cult"?

[LowerManhattanite]

72. Rove 101:

Attack an opponent's strength relentlessly so that you may convince some that it is a weakness.

One of Obama's key strengths is that he—unlike any other candidate out there, GOP or Dem—can rally people into vociferous, unabashed support like he can. As his main opponent is unable to do the same for various reasons (nearly 20 years of exposure/near over-exposure to the public, a slightly “drone-y” speaking style to name a couple), Obama's ability to rally support has to be counter-punched.

Thus, the “cult” meme being pushed by Clinton's friends in the MSM and the GOP's backers afraid of McCain getting swamped against a younger, more robust, more inspiring Dem opponent.

Jarvis is one such GOP backer. Notorious pal of Insta-(hack)-pundit Glenn Reynolds, the right blogosphere's main champion of the swiftboat attacks against John Kerry as well as other racist, retrograde wingnut messages of the day—and also a shameless pimp for the war and a Bush supporter to this very minute. You won't find his other Guardian pieces quite so “agreeable”.

Eat him up if you will, though as he dutifully pushes this “message”. Should Clinton get the nom, she and the DNC will be begging Obama to rally those crowds to come out for the Dems. And should Obama decide to lighten up to defend against this “cult” talking point, and dial it back, the Clinton supporters presently trashing him will be the first ones tossing him under the bus for sandbagging her by NOT turning people our for her should she lose.

But hey...what price victory, eh?

[Apollo11]

75. "vociferous, unabashed support" -- What? You mean like a cult?

Some Obama supporters seem to believe he is the messiah who will lead us to the promised land.

All this "what began as a whisper" stuff is nothing more than quasi-spiritual mumbo-jumbo.

[gmudem]

73. Its shocking and disgusting

That Clintonites are so desperate to slow down Obama that they accuse him and his leaders of being a cult.

It's tempting to put every single person who agrees with that statement on ignore. And while I do support Obama, that's because Edwards dropped out. Maybe Obama people are less willing to support Clinton because they accuse Obama supporters of being mindless cult followers. Fucking disusting that DU'ers actually agree with this. You are all embarassments.

[Apollo11]

74. No. It's valid.

For someone to look at an Obama event, listen to what he says, think about it, and then ask themselves if this is about real substance, or if it is all about making people feel good about themselves.

If you study psychology you will learn that most people have strong desire to belong to a group. To a certain extent, every campaign tries to create this sense of belonging. That if you join their campaign you can be "on the team" and "one of us". Obama seems to be highly dependent on this dynamic.

[gmudem]

78. No it is not.

It shows that people like Obama and that he is an excellent public speaker.

Are Clinton supporters really this jealous of Obama? Just because Obama is actually a good speaker and people are excited to go see him does not mean he is a cult leader.

And my understanding of cults is that they usually do not involve many millions of people and their purpose usually doesn't involve electing a President of the United States.

This all seems to go back to a general disdain of young voters here on DU. If Obama can continue to generate such dramatic youth support, he could very dominate the GE.

[CarbonDate]

80. Yes.

They are jealous and bitter. Jealous that Obama is gifted in ways that Hillary isn't. Bitter because the coronation was supposed to be over by now.

What really upsets them is the simple truth that every vote for Obama is an implicit and conscious rejection of Hillary Clinton by Democrats. That's what really kills them.

[Apollo11]

81. Bull.

#1 - Not everyone who voted for Obama is a Democrat. He is always telling us that a lot of his voters are unaffiliated "independents" and even Republicans.

#2 - What really upsets you is the simple truth that every vote for Hillary is an implicit and conscious rejection of Barack Obama by Democrats (almost all of Hillary's supporters are Democrats).

#3 - I am not even a Hillary supporter. I will support whoever is the nominee. But I think we should be judging the candidates based on who would be an effective President on day one. Getting 10 000 college kids to chant "YES WE CAN" should not be considered as a job requirement for President of the US.

[Kitty Herder]

76. This makes me angry.

It's not like I voted for Obama because of his charisma or his soaring rhetoric. He certainly wasn't my first choice. But faced with choosing between him and Hillary, I decided that Obama is slightly more progressive and less militaristic than Hillary. Slightly. By a hair. So I went with him.

I'm sure there were a lot of other voters just like me, who did not make their decision based on their emotions.

[LowerManhattanite]

77. It's a “haters” meme...

Sour grapes and defensiveness writ large.

[CarbonDate]

79. It's more than that.

It's projection.

Are some Obama supporters getting caught up in a cult of personality? Absolutely.

But you'll never encounter as devoted a cultist as a Hillary cultist.

[Apollo11]

82. Thanks for being honest.

"Are some Obama supporters getting caught up in a cult of personality? Absolutely."

[TacticalPeek]

84. K & R

:kick:

[stillrockin]

86. What a load of crappola.

Go OBAMA!!!

[femrap]

87. k and r

Become Prez by selling hope. I give up on the willfully ignorant in our country. They see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear....and then project that onto whomever they think is worthy of being an american idol.

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. There was some genuine commentary in this piece

but I strongly oppose picking up and using "Cult" as a buzz word for anything having to so with Democratic supporters of any real Democratic candidate.

[calmblueocean]

93. Thanks, Tom.

Your classy response stands out and is appreciated.

[Jennicut]

90. Ha! This is hilarious. A cult?

Scientology is a cult. The Jonestown people were in a cult. This is a heated, contested, close campaign between two good candidates. But no one is part of a cult. I am very intelligent and can think for myself, thank you. Koolaid and cultism is for neo-conservatives. Wacky people. Please stop posting about anyone registered Democratic or voting for a Democrat as being in a cult or drinking Koolaid. Frankly, its insulting. I voted for Obama on Tuesday. I voted after looking over all of the issues, weighing the good points and bad points of Hillary and Obama. I actually leaned in Hillary's direction at one point after N.H. I watched all the debates, the other primaries and caucuses. It finally came down to the fact that I just don't think a step backwards in the past is where its at. I want someone "new", I want a fresh face. Hillary inspires nothing in me but she is competant and knowledgeable. Obama's not perfect, but he's got a shot to win the nomination and the GE. He seems more idealistic but has less experience. Experience isn't everything though. If that's not good enough an explanation then sue me.

[Tatiana]

91. Guess you proved your point? (#1) n/t

[Tatiana]

96. Another positive post... n/t