More %$#*&% begging from the Hillary campaign to seat FL delegates.

[madfloridian]

On one hand they say they will follow the rules, on the other hand they say they want Florida delegates choosing the nominee. There is a difference between "seating" the delegates and letting them decide the nominee. I don't give a hoot and a holler if they seat them at the convention, but if Hillary is allowed to seat Florida delegates it will split us.

Here is the chairman of her Florida campaign writing another letter to Howard Dean to please reinstate the delegates immediately. Yes, they are asking for them to be part of the nominating process. They are not letting up.

Hastings to Dean: reinstate our delegates

In a letter to Dean, Hastings — who joined with Sen. Bill Nelson last year in unsuccessfully suing the party over its plans to reject the Florida delegation — warned that “if Florida’s Democratic voters continue to believe that the Democratic Party does not care about their vote, using Florida only as a fundraising ATM and not as a resource of ideas, then they may not only stay home in November, but many may change their party affiliations and some could actively campaign against us.”

..."You have publicly stated that our nominee will have the ultimate decision to reinstate Florida’s delegates at the National Convention. Further, one of our two front-runners has already stated that she will work to seat Florida’s delegates in Denver while the other broke the four state pledge and has been running TV ads in Florida since the South Carolina Democratic debate. As such, the only logical, responsible, and fair thing for the DNC to do is to reinstate Florida’s delegates immediately. In doing so, the DNC would be implementing a policy which just about everyone has already agreed is going to happen in any case. More importantly for the DNC and all of us involved, it will begin the difficult task of restoring faith in the Democratic Party in Florida, something which has been lost due to DNC actions.

Indeed, you and I have differences of opinions regarding the implementation of the DNC rules and the way our party runs its presidential primary system. But what we have never disagreed on is the need to ensure that Florida voters turn out and vote for our Democratic candidates in November.

Alcee Hastings, I guess it would have been easier to have someone else as chairman, a scenario that will happen soon. But, you see, sir....Howard Dean and the DNC have been getting calls and emails NOT to seat the delegates from Florida. They know it will be the final straw for many new party members. It would be a party takeover by Hillary's campaign.

And there's more. From the Palm Beach Post:

Clinton Campaign: Some party rules good, some bad.

Campaign strategists Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson predicted this afternoon that Clinton would have more delegates than Obama tomorrow morning, thanks largely to her lead in “super-delegates,” which mostly are party leaders who can decide on their own which candidate to support.

First Mark Penn says they will play by the rules, even though they don't like them.

Campaign strategists Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson predicted this afternoon that Clinton would have more delegates than Obama tomorrow morning, thanks largely to her lead in “super-delegates,” which mostly are party leaders who can decide on their own which candidate to support.

While the blogs debate the egalitarian value of pledged vs. super delegates, Clinton’s folks have no qualms with those party rules. “We are going to play under the rules we are given,” Wolfson said.

But wait, in the next breath they say to seat Florida's delegates.

But almost in the same breath, they admit there are some party rules they’d like to change. Namely, the Clinton folks want to flip a decision from DNC to ban Florida delegates from the national convention. The state’s 210 delegates were stripped from the primary equation as punishment for the state moving its primary before Feb. 5 in violation of the party’s approved schedule.

Howard Wolfson uses a brand new argument here.

“These are people who despite essentially being told not to participate, they came out in droves and participated,” Wolfson said of Florida Democratic voters. “If you want to talk about democratization then let’s democratize the process in so far as allowing Michigan and Florida to participate in the selection of our nominee.”

Wolfson doesn't just want to seat them, he wants the DNC to let them participate in choosing the nominee.

Florida worked with the GOP since early 2006 to change the primary date.

The vote was 115 to 1 in favor. They were complicit in planning, introducing, and pledging support for the vote. They scoffed at the DNC chairman in public.

This is very serious for many of us. It will be for my husband and myself a turning point in our party loyalty. It would mean that a candidate would win by deliberately and openly and forcefully breaking the rules.

It would hurt the other candidate and his supporters, and it would define this party forever.

[joshcryer]

1. Don't see anything there from Hillary's mouth.

Wolfson is an irrelevant FL demo hack, Hillary ain't going to shut him up, but he doesn't represent her.

[madfloridian]

2. Wolfson is her spokesperson nationally.

These are her major campaign people speaking.

A certain list must not be working tonight. :shrug:

[joshcryer]

37. Wolfson isn't representing her campaign here, he's coming as an individual.

[K Gardner]

47. Bullshit !! I've seen him on MSNBC spewing this crap on BEHALF of her campaign twice. Amazing you

can say that with a straight face. Yet you do !

[Blue State Bandit]

11. Just after Florida I believe she said just that.

Clinton a week and a half ago said she planned to ask her convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Michigan and Florida, which also was stripped of its delegates. Obama has not said if he will do the same.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNxTApa2sQRu0Xx99P3jt2bEXw7gD8UL6NT80">AP

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dchill]

55. Get your facts straight.

Wolfson is the Clinton campaign's communications director - so he most certainly does "represent her."

[NashVegas]

3. They Really Need to Stop Doing That

..

[madfloridian]

5. When primary season started, we really had no candidate, just did not care.

But as it has progressed, as we have been shunned by friends here for not being on board with the Florida party and its rule-breaking....then we most definitely have a choice now.

I have been stunned at several things, but pushing these delegates is the worst.

[NashVegas]

42. What Are Your Thoughts On the Caucus Proposal?

Do you feel it would be equitable?

[madfloridian]

83. I just don't know.

I have not formed an opinion. I just know that for her to get the delegates here would be wrong unless she is already the nominee.

[ehensal]

4. sneak florida in...

OF course Clinton's folks want Florida delagates seated..that's why she stuck her head into the state in spite of pledges to the contrary during its primary. If it is close on the delegate count, FL delegates can win the day. Fighting for Florida by Clinton is standing up for minority representation while it puts Obama in the awkward position as a black man arguing for the continued disenfranchisement of minority voters...the same Florida voters who got screwed in bush v gore.

[madfloridian]

6. Wow, my posts are drawing all kinds today. lol Welcome to DU, I guess.

I guess you don't know that Bill Nelson lost his lawsuit on the very grounds you mention.

Have fun.

[UALRBSofL]

13. Well, I've been doing my part to get our votes counted and delegates seated

I've called Clinton's campaign office in Va a couple of times. I called Senator Nelson's office. And. I've just started calling a few of the newspapers here in florida explaining what's going on with the DNC and trying to get them to run articles to get people informed. That's what I'll be doing tomorrow as well. The few I've called seemed interested. We'll see how it goes. I'll keep y'all informed.

[madfloridian]

15. Well, Obama supporters will not let the party hijacking happen without a fight.

Florida Democrats are acting like horses asses.

[mutant80]

58. Hijacking? Not counting their vote?

At what point in history was a state not allowed to vote?

[AikidoSoul]

70. I feel stupid and uninformed about this

MadFloridian, you appear to have a clear understanding of the delegate situation in Florida and what it means, while I'm still scratching my head trying to figure it out. I'm sorry to admit that I don't have a grasp of what's going on, and frankly I'm more confused the more I read about it.

Can you recommend a simple, basic primer type article that lays it out from the foundation on up?

I was a delegate to the Florida convention and expect to be appointed to go to the Denver convention. I along with several others failed to apply for delegate status by the January 29th deadline because of confusion about what we are supposed to do.

I'm not the only one confused about this -- no Dem official here is able to explain it.

It's a totally shameful situation that better get some clarification soon!

[madfloridian]

85. Here is what I posted to you below.

Every single Florida legislator knows what they did, and should be able to explain it. They are probably embarrassed over their role in trying to bring down a chairman who is building the state parties. Also the Dem party spokesperson was in on it early in 2006, so Karen was also. Here is what I posted below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4452555&mesg_id=4471433

[krkaufman]

38. Exactly! The timing of her call to seat the delegates was not coincidental.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/krkaufman/20

[krkaufman]

39. Obama needs to stay out of it. Howard Dean needs to handle it. n/t

[ZinZen]

7. Hey MadFL

Al Riordiono from "The Field" thinks the only way MI and FL get seated delegates if they have do over by caucusing. What do you think of that?

[madfloridian]

8. It will never happen.

Florida has already said no firmly. I have read more tonight and talked to some folks. They will fight to the last breath to get these delegates counted for Hillary. I will try to publicize what I can.

[joshcryer]

9. Dean has pretty much ruled out this scenario ever happening by talking about a "sit down."

If there's no nominee before the convention, he's going to have a sit down with the candidates and they'll pick the nominee with a mature adult discussion.

Unlike some people here obsessed with MI and FL on a daily basis.

[tabasco]

10. Desperate and utterly corrupt.

Trying to change the rules mid-stream to STEAL delegates.

Clinton supporters will wave it off as they do everything else with this horrible candidate.

[Deep13]

64. Yes, party rules are a good reason to disenfranchise an entire state, ...

...especially one that we might need to win in November.

And she did campaign according to the rules (as did O.) I'm not going to say "play" because there is nothing remotely recreational about this whole thing.

[Blue State Bandit]

12. I heard a fair idea today around here somewhere.

Let them caucus.

[madfloridian]

16. Florida refused that DNC offer of help to caucus. They are going to fight.

They do not care if they hurt the party. They want Hillary to win, nothing else matters.

[MonkeyFunk]

52. well to be fair

Hillary DID win in Florida. Big.

[dchill]

56. Of course they'll fight ...

they've already got the vote count they want!

[UALRBSofL]

18. Call it desperate and corrupt all you want but my vote will count

I didn't make the decision for the DNC but I can certainly fight for the votes in florida count. That's why I'm trying to get the florida press involved because most floridians didn't know there vote didn't count. This isn't democracy at work, this is the DNC putting a muzzle on floridians.

[madfloridian]

19. Goody goody gumdrop. It will then be Hillary's party and hers alone.

That is what this is about. If people do not see this as a hijacking, then they need to open their eyes.

[Carolina]

67. so true and if this crap happens

then, I will never vote for HRC because she will have shown that she's no different from Bush.

She'll do anything to win.

[madfloridian]

14. Bill Nelson is having another temper tantrum. He is an angry man.

He looks like he is about to explode.



This from the St Pete Times shows the dark underbelly of our Florida Democrats who are too dense to see they hurting the party and pushing for a win for Hillary that will split us. Hubby and I would leave if it happens. Period. Bottom line.

With no Democratic leader emerging, votes could matter.

I said a long time ago that unfortunately you had individuals sitting in back rooms at computer screens and looking at numbers, and a lot of people made the decision that Florida delegates were not going to be relevant," said Janee Murphy, a DNC member from Tampa. "I've said repeatedly, 'Watch, Florida is going to be the linchpin.'"

It's only a linchpin if its delegates count, however. Clinton, of course, has vowed to seat delegations to both states, but Obama is opposed. He argues that it's not fair to count the result of elections that everyone agreed would be meaningless beforehand.

DNC chairman Howard Dean says the decision will be up to a 186-member party credentials committee for the convention, but that panel hasn't even been formed yet.

"It hasn't sunk into their thick heads, the chairman and the DNC, the train wreck that's about to come if we don't get those delegations seated," said Democratic Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a Clinton supporter.

There is no sign that state and national Democrats are trying to iron out the problem, however. State Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman said there is no alternative plan in the works should Democrats fail to get a nominee before summertime.

"If the Florida Dems wait until the credential committee is seated, all hell could break loose. They should try to come up with a compromise now," Democratic strategist and DNC member Donna Brazile said in an e-mail earlier this week.

Take my word for it. They do not care about the DNC or Dean or any of us. They simply do not. I am calling the DNC tomorrow, could not get through today.

We have stayed through this because of our loyalty to Dean and what he stands for. However, if Hillary and her minions get their way, we are gone.

We will save a lot of money monthly that way, but there is no satisfaction. My state party is acting like horses asses.

[Cha]

17. I'm right there with ya..

mad. They don't care if they're hurting the party..it's always been about them.

[madfloridian]

20. Exactly right. I have not even posted some of the stuff I hear.

But this is the issue that will divide. Soon Dean won't be chair anymore, and we could go Indy when he is gone. We have worked our butts off since 2003, but no more. Not if the Clintons get their way on this.

[Cha]

80. That's the way I feel too..

clintons are treading in the muck and I ain't goin' there with 'em.

[UALRBSofL]

21. Do what you think you need to do to muzzle florida's vote

And I'll do what I need to do to get our votes counted as well.

[madfloridian]

24. Goody goody, let one person have the election unfairly.

If it is that important to you, if you are not willing to bend....then that is your right.

I would like for you to explain why the Florida Dems helped introduce the bill, sponsored it, and then voted for it 115 to 1.....and you are still blaming Dean.

Now either I am getting my chains yanked again, or you are with the majority of Florida Democrats who would let the party be hijacked rather than take a stand for what is right. Or who do not know what is happening.

[PassingFair]

81. Don't you have some quotes in your quote bag from Florida's

...lawmakers stating that they didn't CARE if their delegates
were seated or not?

I seem to recall that they didn't give a CRAP, they
JUST WANTED TO GO FIRST.

[madfloridian]

91. I don't have a quote, but their actions show it.

:hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

22. I am rarely negative of the candidates, but...

the intentional effort to circumvent the DNC rules are illuminating. Subversive tactics, rather blatantly applied.

[UALRBSofL]

23. I'm not a candidate so I know your not addressing me

But I am a voter and I did vote in our primary only to find out our 1,800,000 votes didn't count. You can call me a disenfranchised voter, yes. In my opinion this is not democracy. I really don't care what happened with the DNC backroom deals but florida voters need to know.

[madfloridian]

25. YES, you told us three times already. Dear God, let this person's vote count

even if the election is won unfairly.

[Blue State Bandit]

28. You real want us to believe that you had no idea

that the DNC pulled FLs delegates before you voted?

Did you just join yesterday?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

62. Perhaps you should have acted locally to prevent this snafu.

It is the Florida Legislature that you need to chastise for circumventing the DNC rules. Why didn't they go through proper channels earlier to establish an earlier date? And if states just arbitrarily keep setting earlier dates, will they be caucusing 3 years before the GE. Where would the limitations be set?

[AikidoSoul]

72. You make sense here

boundaries have to exist in everything. If we keep breaking the rules and getting away with it, then everybody will do it. It will be chaos.

Hell, it IS chaos.

What grinds me is that it was the Republicans in the Florida House that pushed this hard.

Sometimes I wonder if Dems have any sense at all! They fell for this completely!

Did they ever stop to wonder whether we would be in this sticky mess now? Why didn't they see this coming!?

The Repugs must be laughing and I can hardly blame them!

[madfloridian]

26. Chain-yanking going on today.

Lots of it.

[UALRBSofL]

31. I'm not sure what you mean by chain yanking but

if your talking about the post that I referenced calling Clinton's campaign headquarters and Nelson's office and a few of the newspapers in florida then yes, I guess you can call me a chain yanker.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. Oh sure. Rules are for the OTHER guys.

This was a carefully articulated plan to create a last "firewall" for Hillary ifthings went like they are currently going.

We should have a REAL primary down there. Charge it to the party. We can fund it with online donations.

But the Clintons wouldn't like that, would they?

[madfloridian]

29. The state has already turned down a caucus.

They are being horses asses. I have to live here...say a prayer. light a candle.

[ZinZen]

88. You are correct MF

Refusing to accept a caucus is really digging themselves into a hole. Florida's party is to blame for this fiasco. If Florida's delegates get seated by breaking the rules, I predict a firestorm of contention that will come from Obama's campaign and supporters.

[joshcryer]

30. So, FL, not Hillary, FL, sues to get the delegates seated. Don't win.

Then FL, not Hillary, begs the DNC continually trying to get press for themselves.

But it's Hillary's campaign that's doing it.

[UALRBSofL]

33. No, I have no affiliation with Clinton

So, the work I'm doing on this issue has no candidate affiliation. That said, I'm through with this post.

[sandnsea]

32. Please keep me posted

We can't let this happen. This has to be our line in the sand of which they will not cross.

[joshcryer]

35. It can't and won't happen.

But you Obama supporters will obsess about it day and fucking night in order to lie and pretend Hillary Clinton herself is the one motivating those idiots in FL.

[madfloridian]

53. My feeling is that it won't be crossed....that line in the sand.

I don't think that will be part of the deal worked out. The DNC is getting too many calls about it.

But I think that Howard Dean will be a casualty in all this. If not already.

The Florida Democrats have allowed it to fester instead of coming out and admitting they voted for it 115 to 1. The anger has built up on both sides.

[AikidoSoul]

75. MadFloridian -- searching around for documentation on the 115 to 1

vote by the Florida Legislature and all I find are posts by you on DU and a couple of comments on a couple of blogs.

I went to the Florida Dem Party web site and of course there is nothing.

Am hoping you have a link or some other type of documentation.

Also -- you might consider talking to Mark Caputo at the Miami Herald about doing a decent story on
this. With your contacts you should be able to find key people who feel as you do.

You convinced me! It was the fact that our own Florida Democratic Legislators got hoodwinked by this stupid idea.
It's as if the Repugs blindfolded us and lined us up against the wall....

Do you know who it was who voted against it?

[madfloridian]

76. Here is a link to all the info on that vote. Jack Seiler was the only no vote.

The vote...very lopsided
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The Dem party here was supposed to add amendments to the bill, saying they were against moving the primary up, and that they fought it. But they got so tickled about it on the floors of the house and senate, they couldn't stop laughing.

Here is more on that.

Florida's Senator Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

And from the House side here:

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

Then they were not truthful to the DNC committee. I guess they did not realize that the committee had the floor transcripts of how they went along.

It was a shameful time in Florida. The party knows, the media knows, and the legislators know. But they have lied so long about it being Dean's fault that they don't know how to stop lying.

Thanks for your post. I am very passionate about being lied to.

[AikidoSoul]

89. Thank you for this. I passed on the links to our local

FL Dem County Chair but she said later that she wants "to give the FL Legislature the benefit of the doubt."

My first thought was that she could not have taken the time to read the posts.

It is more than a little interesting to see your links and take on this. It's amazing how many people have
gotten it wrong. Jeez.. the longer I live the more I realize that finding out the truth about almost anything
is our main task in life. Otherwise we end up living lies and rewarding the dark side.

[Thrill]

34. Why weren't they saying this a month before the Florida Primary?

[joshcryer]

36. The FL idiots sued sometime in '07, iirc.

I could be wrong on that count but I think they sued to have them seated as soon as Dean said they would't be. They just continue ratching up the rhetoric. And Obama supporters blame Clinton for idiotic people down in FL.

[johnnydrama]

40. here's a wacky idea

Split the delegates 50/50.

Let's see if they care about FL not having their delegates at the convention, or they care about having more Florida delegates then Obama.

[joshcryer]

41. Disenfranchising voters is not an idea.

Dean's DNC rules are fine and Hillary isn't attempting to break them. It's the idiotic FL dems who have no idea wtf they're doing.

[rodeodance]

49. you have no understanding of the how the sytem works do you!

[Carolina]

68. not a bad idea

[comtec]

43. Any deligates will be considered unfair because

there was a gentleman's agreement NOT to advertise in Florida.
That means any delegates Hilary won are because only she has enough off-hand name recognition.
That means if they were to campaign in Florida, DK would have some Delegates, Edwards would have delegates, and Obama would have had more delegates, which all means that the "extra" delegates Hilary now - theoretically - would have been significantly fewer.

We all know the moving forward, in violation of the DNC's rules, was a tactic by the REPUBLICAN led legislature. However, that does not mitigate the fact that Florida was in violation of the rules.This was all well known months before the primaries happened.

To claim anything else is really being disingenuous.

[HelenWheels]

44. Send the delegates but only to vote as they want

to allow them as Clinton delegates would be disgusting but if they were released to vote as they pleased would be better.


I think it would be better to stick with the original plan, because to flip flop makes the Dem's look foolish and it's just wrong but if they will be allowed, and I'm betting they will, they shouldn't be locked in to vote for anyone specific.

[rodeodance]

45. The argument below beats all:

Let the people have a voice!!

Howard Wolfson uses a brand new argument here.

“These are people who despite essentially being told not to participate, they came out in droves and participated,” Wolfson said of Florida Democratic voters. “If you want to talk about democratization then let’s democratize the process in so far as allowing Michigan and Florida to participate in the selection of our nominee.”

[bigtree]

46. Why do the Obama folks hate democracy?

*tongue-in-cheek*

[K Gardner]

50. Thank you for staying on top of this Madfloridian, and for posting in a coherent and

logical manner. This is simply the most egregious example of blatant disregard for rules and a harbinger of things to come that I have seen out of the Clintons yet. I agree about the devastating effects this would have and it would be nice to see some Clinton supporters stop advocating this underhanded display of arrogance, entitlement and outright cheating.

[madfloridian]

51. You are right. It is a blatant disregard for rules.

I find it hard to believe it is going on.

[mutant80]

57. so people living in FLA shouldn't have a voice?

a fine would make more sense than disenfranchisement

[madfloridian]

63. Chain-yanking. Rampant. Can I just make up crap too?

And throw it at the wall and hope it sticks. As for the Florida Democrats they are whiners now. Wah Wah...my vote doesn't count.

[Justice Is Comin]

65. You just don't like the fact that

Floridians came out in bus loads to vote for Hillary. More probably voted because they were told their vote was possibly being discounted entirely.

They voted for Hillary in droves period.

You can't stand that the tons of seniors in Florida are Hillary supporters and it chaps your jeans. Live with it.

And did Obama run TV ads in Florida or not which was against the rules ? Hmmmm ?

It doesn't fit in your love fest orgy with Obama, that's why you don't like it.

[madfloridian]

66. Let's give Hillary her &^%$# delegates.

Let's make Florida voters happy. To hell with the rest of the party and the rest of the country.

Hillary Hillary Hillary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4466439

[madfloridian]

54. Here are the FL Superdelegates. The uncommitted should stay that way

for now. Trouble is that the ones committed to Clinton are very powerful here.

http://www.flablog.net/2008/02/fla-superdelegates.htm

For Clinton:

Sen. Bill Nelson
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
Rep. Alcee Hastings
Rep. Corrine Brown
Rep. Kendrick Meek
DNC Raul Martinez

For Obama:

Rep. Robert Wexler
Allan Katz

Undecided:

Rep. Allen Boyd
Rep. Kathy Castor
Rep. Tim Mahoney
Rep. Ron Klein
Andrew Tobias
Karen Thurman
Rudolph Parker
Terrie Brady
Mitchell Ceasar
Fla. Rep. Joyce Cusack
Diane Glasser
Chuck Mohlke
Janee Murphy

Most of the undecided lean Clinton...IMHO. Castor was pretty vocal at the beginning about going with the early primary. Tobias will likely remain uncommitted.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

59. If Florida's votes don't at least partially count - there will hell to pay.

We had record turnout. Plus the only ads that showed down here before the primary was from Obama. He had his chance to get our support.

[madfloridian]

60. Then let's declare Hillary the winner by breaking of rules...

And Florida will be just so happy.

[joshcryer]

92. What rules? Seating them would be perfectly within the rules.

I don't see what the issue is. :shrug:

[TomClash]

61. I'm with you and heve been so since the beginning

The Florida delegates should NOT be permitted to vote on the nominee. Period.

[L0oniX]

69. Spider shark, spider shark, doing whatever a spider shark does.,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4RC04vfqmg

[AikidoSoul]

73. Wow! I've never noticed before that

sharks can smile....

[AikidoSoul]

71. Kick and recommend. We need to understand this situation

much better.

[JVS]

74. madfloridian, you're too good for that state. They obviously can't run elections there...

and it's time to give the state to Cuba. Pack your bags and come on up.

[calteacherguy]

77. Mad, any movement there to hold a another primary or caucus later on?

That would seem the most logical choice.

[madfloridian]

87. Bill Nelson said absolutely not. No comment from Thurman..

cause we all know Bill is boss.

[madfloridian]

78. Just remembering.

The Florida legislators knew all along that if they fought the GOP on moving up the primary, the votes here would probably count. Provisions were made for that. So they tried to tell that to the DNC rules committee at the hearing. Trouble is the DNC had the transcripts.

Here is more from that.

Laughing off an amendment, voting yes, and saying they were outvoted

The DNC members had handouts that included quotes by House Minority leader Dan Gelber brushing off Howard Dean, and the following transcript of Steve Geller making the motion to move the primary to Feb. 5:

Geller: "...So the Democratic leader and the Democratic leader pro tem are jointly making this motion, which we will duly show them later, that we tried not to have the election on, um, before (Feb. 5).

President: "And so Sen. Geller are you urging a negative vote or would you like us to pass this vote?"

Geller: "Oh no sir. We really, really want this. Don't we senator? (sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber).

And we already knew they worked with the GOP...and so did the state party...as early as March 2006. Marco Rubio said they were on board.

[AikidoSoul]

90. Active link for item above post should be this

one:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

which tells about the Geller smirking quote and more....

The active link in the above post is to MadFlorida's fine journal which contains several articles.

[Zodiak]

79. For those who think that

Hillary is not allied with Bill Nelson, I would like to point out that Bill Nelson and Hillary are both members of the DLC, who are known to protect each other by funneling money and influence. Of course, Nelson can easily be a surrogate in this particular matter. It is essential that Clinton look clean in this since she is the one to benefit...that part of the strategy is a must.

The DLC's job is to keep the grassroots and the the common people from having any voice in the government. The stranglehold that the corporate wings have on both parties makes sure that business continues as usual..at the expense of everything else.

Through this lens, the brilliance of this move cannot be denied. The Blue-Dog-laden Florida legislature plays at being "duped" into changing the rules for primaries, knowing how the DNC will respond. When the DNC performs as expected, then cry out to the voters that they are being disenfranchised. In this manner, the main avenue by which average Democrats can participate in their own party, the 50-state strategy, gets excoriated by the very people it was meant to elevate. Plus, the DLC can act like the People's champion to put one of their own in the White House.

Bill Nelson is one of the most conservative Democrats in the Senate. He has voted against the Dems on very big issues at critical times when we needed every vote. He is a traitor to Democratic causes and he is wedded to the DLC just like Hillary is.

It would come to no surprise to me that this is a big power play to ensure their continued mole-like leadership in the Democratic party.

Lowest scoring Senators in the 109th on big issues:

Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

[kristopher]

82. madfloridian - Thank you

If they succeed in doing this I'm not just going to abandon the party, I'm going to leave the country. I almost left when Bush was re-elected, but instead I hunkered down, grit my teeth and stayed because this is my home, my country.
I've been in a funk ever since. There was a brief respite with the '06 elections, but that soon evaporated and the despair returned.
If the basis of liberty in this country - the sovereignty of the people - is betrayed this time I quit. It just isn't worth it anymore. I'll know my country is gone for good.

[Indenturedebtor]

84. Ditto

And I'll leave my burden of debt here with me. It's cash for the next decade if they pull some shit like this. We need a seachange or I'm out! :mad:

[UALRBSofL]

86. What will happen is the delegates will be disallowed

since they are not budging on this issue. And I got the feeling Senator Nelson in a way threatened the DNC we will lose florida in the GE. That's the impression I got from what he said.