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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:07 AM
Original message
Obama nixed plans for Ohio debate
This will win him a lot of supporters here....

"CNN had hoped to hold two presidential debates in Ohio at the end of February. But Obama may have thwarted those plans Wednesday when he said, "I don't think anybody is clamoring for more debates." He said he would prefer "to spend time with voters."

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/02/ohio_gets_a_voice_in_president.html
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Obama fears Debates what a surprise.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. If Hillary were ahead she would
say the same thing. Front runners want to limit the number of debates because they have the least to gain.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
60. She is ahead on OH polls.
And she has support of Ted Strickland.
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. post the whole quote, will do at least one debate.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. YOU fear your candidate will lose. nt
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. he stinks at it, compared w/ Hil
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Heheh -- that will win him Ohio voters
Personally, he's done so poorly in previous debates I can see where he'd want to avoid them.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary's debate style allows her to dominate the time and attention
so it is not at all easy for anyone to deal with her without seeming
rude or unmanly.

Obama should not debate except in a format which is strictly managed by the moderator
who will then have to take the role of the bad guy.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. So not only does Obama fear debate, but his supporters as well.
Interesting.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. BECAUSE he wants to talk directly to the people. How many programed debates do we really need?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Don't even try, Modmom. This is part of the Campaign Talking points that they have to get out there
today and everyday.. its part of the "Obama is afraid" meme they are pushing. :hi:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. If he's not afraid, he should debate in Ohio then
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Nice try, no cigar. Your candidate should try getting on a press plane and going to
rally HER PEOPLE instead of giving up on "states that don't matter" and then trying to play the victim or trying to blame someone else because she's stuck, or bully another candidate because he IS going out and meeting his constituents instead of crafting sound bites for a staged debate (of which they've had what.. 18??). This ain't about Obama and your bullshit won't make it so. Its about Hillary's Desperation.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Ozarkdem, we usually agree on most issues but on Clinton we part. The Clintons
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 09:35 AM by mod mom
have not been good for Ohio. Their free trade policy has seriously hurt our economy with outsourcing well paying jobs overseas. Their (I say their because if you read what I am about to post you will see the ties between Jackson Stephens and Hillary at the Rose Law firm) support of the powerful over the people HAVE adversely effected this state:

Here is a portion of activist/mother, Terri Swearingen's acceptance speech for the Goldman Environmental Prize, given April 14, 1997:



I am not a scientist or a Ph.D. I am a nurse and a housewife, but my most important credential is that I am a mother. In 1982, I was pregnant with our one and only child. That's when I first learned of plans to build one of the world's largest toxic waste incinerators in my community. When they began site preparation to begin building the incinerator in 1990, my life changed forever. I'd like to share with you some of the lessons I have learned from my experiences over the past seven years.

One of the main lessons I have learned from the WTI experience is that we are losing our democracy. How have I come to this sad realization? Democracy is defined by Merriam Webster as "government by the people, especially rule of the majority," and "the common people constituting the source of political authority." The definition of democracy no longer fits with the reality of what is happening in East Liverpool, Ohio. For one thing, it is on the record that the majority of people in the Ohio Valley do not want the WTI hazardous waste incinerator in their area, and they have been opposed to the project from its inception. Some of our elected officials have tried to help us, but the forces arrayed against us have been stronger than we or they had imagined. Public concerns and protests have been smothered with meaningless public hearings, voodoo risk assessment and slick legal maneuvering.

Government agencies that were set up to protect public health and the environment only do their job if it does not conflict with corporate interests. Our current reality is that we live in a "wealthocracy" big money simply gets what it wants. In this wealthocracy, we see three dynamics at play: corporations versus the planet, the government versus the people, and corporate consultants or "experts" versus common sense. In the case of WTI, we have seen all three.

The second lesson I have learned ties directly to the first, and that is that corporations can control the highest office in the land. When Bill Clinton and Al Gore came to the Ohio Valley, they called the siting of the WTI hazardous waste incinerator next door to a 400 student elementary school, in the middle of an impoverished Appalachian neighborhood, immediately on the bank of the Ohio River in a flood plain an "UNBELIEVABLE IDEA." They said we ought to have control over where these things are located. They even went so far as to say they would stop it. But then they didn't! What has been revealed in all this is that there are forces running this country that are far more powerful than the President and the Vice President. This country trumpets to the world how democratic it is, but it's funny that I come from a community that our President dare not visit because he cannot witness first hand the injustice which he has allowed in the interest of a multinational corporation, Von Roll of Switzerland. And the Union Bank of Switzerland. And Jackson Stephens, a private investment banker from Arkansas. These forces are far more relevant to our little town than the President of the United States! And he is the one who made it that way. He has chosen that path. We didn't choose it for him. We begged him to come to East Liverpool, but he refused. We begged the head of EPA to come, but she refused. She hides behind the clever maneuvering of lawyers and consultants who obscure the dangers of the reckless siting of this facility with theoretical risk assessments.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/et0897s17.html




There has always been something incongruous about Stephens Inc. Despite the Little rock firm's attempts to portray itself as a small- city operation that closes for the duck season and got fabulously lucky on a couple of down-home deals like Wal-Mart, it was, at the incinerator's inception, the ninth-largest investment bank in the country. Since it is not headquartered in New York, its dealings are local news, little noticed by the national press, even when they have national implications. And, as a source close to the company once remarked, "The farther you get from Arkansas, the better it looks."

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.

-snip

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html





Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html



Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actors



THE LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS GAVE CLINTON A C- FOR HIS FIRST YEAR IN OFFICE

Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste/
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I know, I respect your opinion
I have to leave for work, but will read the rest of your post later.

Keep in mind, I'm voting based on the best health care plan this time around.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. When reading it:
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 09:53 AM by mod mom
Think of the long lasting health effects to the people of this impoverished region-located near an elementary school in a flood plain no less-all so some rich bastards could make profit!

Sorry to sound dramatic, but I believe this influence by the grossly wealthy has got to stop and I don't believe Clinton will do it. (think Marc Rich:

Rich was also charged with a complex oil scam that exploited America’s energy crisis in the early ’80s. The 65-count indictment claimed he had secretly bought up millions of barrels of Texas crude oil then under strict price controls and relabeled the oil as decontrolled supplies, ultimately selling it on the open market for huge profits — reportedly $100 million.

And while 52 Americans were held hostage in Iran, Rich’s company allegedly made another fortune by trading with the Ayatollah Khomeini’s regime in violation of a strict American trade embargo.

Rich and his partner were then charged with failing to pay U.S. taxes on the profits.

The formal charges sounded like the case against gangster Al Capone: wire fraud, mail fraud, racketeering, trading with the enemies of the United States, and, of course, tax evasion.

-snip

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071886

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.

Published: January 31, 2008

Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip


"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html


WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THIS TYRANT TO HEAD AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT MONITORS ELECTIONS AND SUPPORTS DEMOCRACY?

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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. Think of the health effects of 15 million uninsured
and a collapsing health care system trying to care for them here in the US.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
59. This is wasted BURIED in this thread.. please post as OP if you already haven't !
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Obama is not afraid - he is playing politics
That is not a suprise, but anyone who falls for "It's more important to spend time talking to the voters" is willfully ignorant. There is no way to reach more voters than through debates, and everyone knows it.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Voters don't want to be talked at
They're entitled to hear their candidates debate the issues that are relevant to them instead of just hearing another stump speech.

Ohio has enough problems as it is, having been screwed over by the GOP at the statehouse and in the WH. They need a format that lets them learn more about where the candidates stand on their issues.
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Independent-Voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. 18 Debates held already. More are planned. Get the fuck over it
.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. BECAUSE chanting "Hope! Change! I'm not Hillary! Ready! Fire!" isn't debating.
And that's all he's got.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. I like debates.
I say keep having them. I will keep watching. But they need to ask different questions or use a different format. One debate should be all audience questions (kind of like the youtube) with only a moderator to keep the debate on track...no moderator or other M$M questions.

Or have one where other members of Congress or of state/local boards get to ask the questions.

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. Actually, I am clamoring for more debates. There's MUCH more I want to know.
This does not look good.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. This is right out of the playbook- smart too
He is winning (yes he is) and they both know it. She wants free airtime and he isn't going to give it to her until every story about this race is about how he is winning it. Make her look like she has to crush him while he can stay above the fray.

I think they have a had a ton of debates. I like debates and want more too but for him this is the way to go about it. Plus realize that he and his staff is running on fumes right now.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. No, Clinton is ahead
Another GOP tactic from the Obama camp - tell a lie often enough and people will start to believe it.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Look I think they split on Tuesday
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 09:39 AM by underpants
but the money thing (I know I know) is not looking good-not her loaning the money but this guy is freakin' PRINTING MONEY right now.

My opinion here-I think that she has to stake out something in February if he gets too much of a head of steam and he comes rolling into Ohio and Pa look out. He has already shown that he can turn a state (Ct.) and can close any gap anywhere.

I do think he is winning in that she is supposed to have this put away and he is just simply not supposed to be here right now. Even is winning for him.

Oh and I am NOT a supporter of either. I am just waiting to find out which office to go volunteer at in the fall.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. It's pretty standard political strategy.
If you are ahead in the polls (or think you are - the two of them are effectively tied as far as I can tell), you avoid debates if you can. If you are behind in the polls, you argue for more debates.

Debates can help or hurt the leader or the one behind, though in this instance most would grant that Hillary is a better debater, while Obama is a better speaker. The leader feels "Why take the chance? I'm already ahead." The one behind feels "Might as well give it a shot. I'm behind anyway - what do I have to lose?"

Other posters here have said (correctly?) that Hillary avoided debates with her opponent in her last Senate race. She had better poll numbers and more money, so didn't want to debate. Her opponent probably made statements about how wonderful debates are, similar to the ones that she is making now. It's a standard tactic from both camps that I imagine surprises few of us.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
57. He's trying to run down the clock. She will have enough money
to keep getting her message out. This makes him look cowardly and even more of an empty suit. He can run but he can't hide.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. I agree there should be more debates.
I saw my first debate last week. How many others have not watched the debates or haven't seen it one on one between OB and HC only? And now want to see what they both have to say?
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1awake Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's not about the debates for either side
Hillary want's free air time. Obama doesn't want to give it to her, and knows that Hillary on average seems to do better in these settings. It's a no brainer for Obama. Name calling will not make him give assistance to Hillary.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Welcome to DU
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1awake Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Thanks! n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
17. There's a reason the Present button is Yellow.
Coward.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. HE WASN'T A COWARD WHEN IT CAME OT OPPOSING THE IRAQ WAR @ A TIME WHEN IT WASN'T POPULAR TO DO SO!
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... 'What would I have done? I don't know. Uh huh...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Yet 23 Senators voted NO with the same info Clinton had. POOR JUDGEMENT just like
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. and here is video of Sen Jim Webb on Kyl Lieberman:
Webb: Lieberman And Kyl’s Hawkish Iran Amendment Is ‘Cheney’s Fondest Pipe Dream’
On the Senate floor today, Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) made an impassioned appeal to his fellow senators, declaring that the Lieberman-Kyl amendment on Iran should be “withdrawn” because the “proposal is Dick Cheney’s fondest pipe dream.” Webb cautioned that the “cleverly-worded sense of the Congress” could be “interpreted” to “declare war” on Iran. He continued:

Those who regret their vote five years ago to authorize military action in Iraq should think hard before supporting this approach. Because, in my view, it has the same potential to do harm where many are seeking to do good.

“At best, it’s a deliberate attempt to divert attention from a failed diplomatic policy,” said Webb. “At worst, it could be read as a backdoor method of gaining Congressional validation for military action, without one hearing and without serious debate.” Watch it:


Webb said that amendment’s attempt to categorize the Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp as “a foreign terrorist organization” would, for all practical purposes, “mandate” the military option against Iran. “It could be read as tantamount to a declaration of war. What do we do with terrorist organizations? If they are involved against us, we attack them.”

He also slammed the lack of debate and examination that was accompanying the amendment, saying “this is not the way to make foreign policy”:

We haven’t had one hearing on this. I’m on the Foreign Relations Committee, I’m on the Armed Services Committee. We are about to vote on something that may fundamentally change the way the United States views the Iranian military and we haven’t had one hearing. This is not the way to make foreign policy. It’s not the way to declare war.

VIDEO AT LINK:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/25/webb-kyl-lieb-iran/

I WOULD VENTURE THAT SEN WEBB IS HAS MORE EXPERTISE THAN SEN CLINTON ON MILITARY ACTION AND YET AGAIN SHE MADE A BAD DECISION.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. Too busy counting the corporate cash /nt
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Who, Hillary - cause she doesn't have any left, and Obama gets most of his money from small donors?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. 2/3 of Clinton's donors are maxed out!
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
29. we've had enough primary debates
18. count em.

clinton's strategy is so transparent.
i'm glad Obama is telling her to take a hike.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
31. i'm in the NObama camp -- but you don't debate if you don't have to when you are ahead.
you stay above the fray -- look presidential -- and try to control your message.

that's the game.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Plus it's free exposure for them while otherwise getting your message out costs $
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samrock Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
33. More debates
Ya know it is kind of telling .. When Hillary had a HUGE lead in the polls she did not duck ANY chance to debate.. and now that Obama seems to be in the lead he can't WAIT to duck the 1st chance he has.. Yes.. this is VERY telling..
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. I "analyze" it this way:
The Ohio Democratic "establishment," Governor Stickland, Party Chair Redfern, and Representative Tubb Jones support Hillary. Why embarass them, and cause tensions when it's not necessary.

And I hadn't thought of it, but really, what would another debate prove?

Being from Ohio, I can tell you that the history of this state is complex and dynamic. I think Obama HAS a clue.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
36. You can't preach at a debate.
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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
39. Perhaps your post statement is pre-mature. Look:
The Columbus Dispatch reports only that Obama MAY skip a debate in Ohio, not that it is certain. Personally I don't think we need another debate right now. What purpose does it serve, except a repeat of what's already out there. Unless something could be tailored to be uniquely about Ohio. Maybe that's something both candidates should consider.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2008/02/07/debate.html?adsec=politics&sid=101
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
42. MEOW.
Read between the lines...
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
43. Debate overload, it's a common bullshit tactic
Nobody would watch a debate every goddamn weak. It was a ploy all along. If you can't see that, you're pretty dense.
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VarnettaTuckpocket Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
45. Spend time with voters? More like hide under mama's skirt n.t
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
47. Obama would rather meet the voters face-to-face.
Is this a difficult concept to grasp?
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Exactly. Rather than letting Hillary and (maybe)
Fox News setting the rules, he goes directly to the people and lets them make up their own minds.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
48. I can't preach from a podium on national TV. I need rallies! I need throngs!
I need adoring faces chanting "Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!"

Preach it, Brother Barack, grab us by our heartstrings and preach it. Shout it to the world, shout it so the demons of hell tremble and the angels of heaven rejoice in song, "Yes we can!"

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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
49. This is another example of him ...
acting afraid or whiny, as I have said before what will he do when confronted with the republicons.
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. Gives me less of a chance to see a debate in person
Not exactly winning me over Obama!

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
51. I'll go with; "Obama would prefer "to spend time with voters." let Hillary pay for her own air-time.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
55. He said he would rather talk directly to voters....yes, he's definitely going to lose support for
saying that :p
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
56. As in the East Liverpool case campaign promises don't always hold up once elected.
She is too involved with corporate interests and lobbyists. Look at these numbers:

Lobbyists -Hillary # 1

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?cycle=2008

Oil & Gas _Hillary # 4 (although TOP DEM)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=E01

Pharm/Health Products-Hillary # 3 (TOP DEM)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=H04

Sorry Ozarkdem, Obama wasn't my first choice (Gore, Kucinich and Edwards) but after spending time doing my own research, I have come to the conclusion I would NEVER vote for her or any DLC candidate, but would rather write-in a Dem who I feel supports my progressive views instead. PDA, who in Ohio (I don't follow their nationals priorities) has made healthcare one of their top priorities and they too have chosen to back Obama over Clinton. I respectfully disagree.
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
58. He has agreed to at least two debates, one in Ohio
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