I want to vote for Obama.

[smiley_glad_hands]

But some of his supporters here act like fanatics. Maybe I should stop reading DU, been here since 01. Dunno, but some of this "all we need is hope" bs is killing me. Take it down a notch or two. The "cult" label for bama heads is not unfounded. He is not the second coming of Christ.

I vote next tuesday and I am leaning towards Bama, for now, but only because he is the most likely to expound upon what Dean is doing at the DNC. Hill's peeps have attacked Dean and the DNC in the past, and I only see it getting worse because of Fl and MI.

I do not want a candidate who wants to make nice with republicans. Do you honestly think this is going to be reciprocal? If he gets the nomination, it will be all rezko all the time. I think 2004 should be a reminder enough to squash all the warm fuzzy feelings. It will be attack attack and attack, what will Obama do then?

Do you honestly think white southern republicans will vote for a black democrat (or a white woman for that matter)? Enough with the unity bs and stop trying to attract conservatives at the risk of turning off those of us who know better.

On edit: The 04 primaries were no where near as bad as this time around. People had their candidate and debated the issues, when the nominee was picked, DU rallied around Kerry.

Also, to clarify, fanaticism usually leads to bad things (fascism). We've seen what bush bots can do.

[mac56]

1. "I do not want a candidate who wants to make nice with republicans."

Amen and amen.

K & R

[Lisa0825]

18. That bothered me at first...

but then I realized that Republicans are ripe for the picking now! Average Repuglican voters are frustrated with their party. They are losing their homes, having health care crises, and tired of the war too. We'd do better to bring them in and show them how much better WE can do, than to hurl insults at them and keep them as enemies.

[ellisonz]

60. It's CounterReaganRevolution.

[marlakay]

46. I thought about that at first but after talking to my

republican bosses who HATE hillary and don't talk about obama at all, I realize they don't see him as a threat. What that means is they will go out and vote in droves against Hillary but not him.

[Redstone]

Why would you let the fact that some of his DU supporters act like assholes influence your vote?

(I'd say the same if your post said "I want to vote for Hillary.")

Redstone

[Maddy McCall]

Yes.

It certainly is a decision that should made with no consideration of DU crap.

People provide links on policy...that's good. But the rest should be filtered out when making a decision.

[shaniqua6392]

30. I think I may be able to answer that.

Some of us wonder why Obama supporters can find no negatives to their candidate. How can that be? Everyone has negatives. Hillary has negatives These are politicians we are talking about. It does not necessarily influence your vote, but you are left wondering about the validity of his campaign. If you ask a legitimate question on a problem you may be having about Obama, you will get your head ripped right off your shoulders on DU by his supporters. You are left wondering and doubting because they seem to be blindly led by this candidate. I suggest to the OP to leave DU until the primary and spend the week doing real research on both candidates and their positions, both past and present.

[Celebration]

53. We're here, I promise

We just aren't noisy. I'm voting for Obama and I definitely see some negatives. I'm not even fond of his preachy type style, although I can tolerate it, for sure. He also has that prep school facade, and I am personally not fond of that. I do consider these things matters of personal style and background so they are very low on my list of importance.

I'd like him to do all sorts of investigations of the current administration, but he won't, I feel sure. Clinton wouldn't either though.

[shaniqua6392]

55. Thank you so much for that.

It makes me feel a lot better knowing you are out there.

[Redstone]

58. How nice of you to jump in and say that. NO sarcasm here; I really am happy to see

someone offer a voice and opinion of reason in this forum.

Redstone

[gateley]

2. Supporters are NOT the candidate. Don't let them influence your vote for whom

you believe will be the best leader for our country.

[smiley_glad_hands]

7. You are correct.

Maybe I should be a better person about it. But DU is in shambles and this primary has been very divisive.

[gateley]

10. I understand. But don't let THEM determine your vote. nt

[MH1]

29. "ignore" is your friend

I have used it for posters from all camps.

[bunkerbuster1]

3. Actually, in some southern states, you only need a small majority of whites to win

Here in GA, for example, it's about 32% African American. You get just 40% or so of the white folks voting for Obama, and an overwhelming number of motivated African Americans, and he wins Georgia.

And that'd be swell with me. The white bigots can suck it, and I'll pay to watch!

[Dawgs]

4. I live in Georgia, and I definitely think Obama can win here.

BTW, I'm not buying that you would ever vote for Obama.

[eleny]

5. You need to make up your own mind

Only you know who you really want to be president. So just follow your own heart and mind.

[Maddy McCall]

6. My father is a independent, politically.

He's almost eighty years old, a deacon in a Baptist church, and white. He told me the other night, "I'll have no problem voting for Obama if he gets the nomination."

He said that he's going to vote Obama in the primary.

I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter, btw.

Edit to add: Dad's a Mississippian.

[eleny]

19. Many books will be written about this campaign season

Nice that you still have your dad! He sounds like a really interesting guy.

[Maddy McCall]

27. He is an interesting guy.

His best friend is a Jamaican. They fart around together all over town. No one gives them a second glance. I know a lot of people have ideas about "white southern males." My dad breaks most of the stereotypes.

People have so many misconceptions about the South, about racial segregation. My dad is Democratic in his views on social justice...he nurtured that in me...and I credit him completely with me being a Democrat, even though Dad votes on both sides of the ballot.

There ARE racists here in the south...but they're also in the north, east, west.

(I guess you can tell I love my Dad to death...don't know who will guide me when he's gone. :( )

[eleny]

32. You'll know what he would say even if he's not there

It's like that with my mom. Her ideas still guide me.

Funny thing, when I went to caucus the other night, I decided to wear her wedding band so she could be there in a way. Hubby couldn't go since the poop is registered as an Indie. But I still wasn't by myself. My mom was a very brave person. I think it's why I could get up to speak on behalf of my candidate even though it was my very first caucus. :D

[Maddy McCall]

33. Beautiful story, eleny.

Your post gave me...peace.

One of my most depressing thoughts is about losing my father, his voice. :hug:

[smiley_glad_hands]

62. I like your story.

Your dad seems like a good person. I was born, raised, and still live in the south. I am a white male. The vast majority of white males I know and have met in my lifetime are racists and sexists. They will never vote for Obama or Hilliary, they will stay home before they vote for one of them.

In fact I met a client earlier in the day today, he said he's voting for Huckabee in the primary. I asked him if he would vote for McCain, he said no, he's a flip flopper. I asked about Hill and Obama, he just stared at me with a scowl. I ended the conversation after that (he does owe me money).

[SeattleGirl]

8. Don't take your cue from DU posters for either candidate.

Much better to read their campaign websites, listen to their speeches, etc.

[Tatiana]

9. Q: Do supporters = the candidate? A: No.

You are leaning towards supporting Obama "because he is the most likely to expound upon what Dean is doing at the DNC."

Then, in the next breath, you say "enough with the unity bs and stop trying to attract conservatives..."

Ummm... exactly what do you think Dean is trying to do at the DNC and what do you think the 50-state strategy is?

[smiley_glad_hands]

14. Thats at the local level.

You are correct though, I have contradicted myself a little bit here. The combination of 8 years of W and this primary is making this political cycle almost unbearable.

Still though, like the Dixie Chics, I'm not ready to make nice.

[Tatiana]

40. Fair point. But the local level is ground zero for us.

I totally feel you on the not being ready to make nice point. This country has suffered because of the ignorance of many Republicans. However, Republicans now being embarrassed to admit their former republican affiliation and now repudiating many of those disastrous policies can only be considered a positive thing. We WANT them to change their minds. We WANT them to start voting in their own economic best interests. It's just sad that it took them losing their homes, retirement savings

We HAVE to start at the local level in order to win at the national level. That's how the republicans won back Congress (after years of taking over at the local level) and how they were able to steal elections (Katherine Harris, Kenneth Blackwell being in charge of the elections process). We need to connect with voters from the ground up and if our local Democrats do a good job, then people will be more inclined to vote for candidates with similar policies at the national level.

[smiley_glad_hands]

49. I agree the local level is ground zero.

Thats one of the reasons why support of Dean is key to getting my vote. But i believe Deans strategy has not necessarily been to get conservatives to vote dem, but to have the infrastructure in place so that a local dem has a fighting chance. The old addage "all politics are local" comes to mind. One man's conservative is another's liberal (ie: McCain).

Prior to Dean, the democratic party was completely absent in many states. I want the infrastructure in place so that no race goes unchallenged and let the local dems running decide how progressive they need to be to win.

Are we really going to convince enough conservatives to vote for a liberal to make a difference. It's just my opinion, but I say no. Independents and moderates maybe, but the people listening to rush and beck will never vote dem.

[xultar]

11. I know how you feel. But don't let DU fuck up your shit for you. Vote what is important

`to you and your family.

Du is vut a speck on the ass of reality.

[Blue-Jay]

12. What a load of shit.

If you base your vote on what a few idiotic message board posters say, you're beyond help.

I think you're lying.

[smiley_glad_hands]

15. This is the BS that I'm talking about.

I'm looking for discussion. Not accusations. What exactly am I lying about?

[Blue-Jay]

34. My feeling is that...

You're overstating the importance of the ravings of a few DU posters when deciding who you'll vote for. I find it hard to believe that a few idiots on a message board can influence the vote of an otherwise involved and concerned individual.

"I'm voting for X because a Y-supporter was being a dick!" That doesn't make any sense to me.

[smiley_glad_hands]

38. Not individual posters.

But as a group I find Obama's supporters to be a turn off to me voting for him, amongst other things.

[Blue-Jay]

43. Oh. "As a group"... That makes all the difference.

:crazy:

[smiley_glad_hands]

45. Does to me. eom

[Blue-Jay]

48. There you have it, folks!

A small group of Obama supporters on a medium-sized board have influenced the vote of one weak-willed person. You should all feel proud of yourselves!

Sorry, but I'm still calling "bullshit" on your whole premise.

How do a few bullies change your mind about a candidate's position and electability? Are you THAT insecure, or are you just feeding everyone a line of shit? It's one or the other.

[smiley_glad_hands]

51. Weak willed? Bullies? Insecure?

Look at my OP. If you don't understand my concern, then you are a blind dumbass.

I haven't been bullied since highschool btw.

I take it you are a rabid Obamanite. Leave my thread now please.

[Blue-Jay]

56. I like this thread. I think I'll stay right here.

I'm not a rabid anything, btw. Vote for who you think is the best candidate, but try to base your decision on issues, strategy, or SOMETHING other than "I don't like the personalities of a few folks on DU. wahhh wahh wahhh!" That's just stupid reasoning.

Heh! You called me an "Omabanite"! Further proof that your OP is a load of shit. Liar.

[smiley_glad_hands]

57. Right, you call me a liar. lol

What exactly am I lying about again. There are plenty of over the top threads started by obama supporters for you to reference. Hell theres even articles in the MSM talking about how obama's campaign comes across like a cult. You can stay in this thread all you like, your just looking to pick a fight.

Don't be an asshole.

[Yael]

13. Thank you. It is quite overbearing.

[smiley_glad_hands]

17. If only John could gotten more air time.

[Alter Ego]

16. Making nice with the Republicans and letting them walk all over you

are two different things. He won't do the latter.

[TheWraith]

20. You're mistaken if you think that all Republicans and independents are a lost cause.

There's an impulse here to try and dismiss the idea that we need to do anything to try and bring across converts from the Republicans, or bring independents into our tent. That's wrong. We've seen what happens when we run on only our base. We lose. See 2000 and 2004.

Remember, that kind of "fuck the other side" all-hate-all-the-time politics is what got the Republicans pistol-whipped in 2006. We do NOT want to be running as more of the same old politics as usual.

[smiley_glad_hands]

24. Not all of them, but most of them.

The ones I know will sit home before voting for a black man or a white woman.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. First of all, don't listen to any of the idiots on here.

And that includes me.

(Except for this post.)

[Lisa0825]

22. There are plenty of fanatical Hillary supporters too.

and a month or so ago, the Kucinich folks were getting very testy here. But now it is between Hillary and Obama, so the most vocal jerks on both sides are pissing people off. Don't let them decide for you. That's silly. Decide for yourself based on facts.

[smiley_glad_hands]

25. I agree about the Hill part. eom

[MoonRiver]

23. Based on your arguments against him, are you SURE you want to vote Obama?

Just asking.

[smiley_glad_hands]

26. Not sure yet.

But I dont want Hill blowing up the DNC either.

[alteredstate]

28. I live in South Carolina

and Obama kicked some serious butt in the SC primary.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. I suggest you stay away from DU until after you vote.

I know what you mean about his supporters. Some of them have stick up their asses.

[David Zephyr]

35. Look at the candidate, not his supporters.

Like you, I had to tune out all of the noise last month so that, after sitting out all of 2007 because I couldn't make up my mind, I could really square my own positions and heart with a candidate.

In the final analysis, four factors probably influenced me the most. I humbly share them with you:

1.) IRAQ: Barack truly did oppose the war in Iraq and spoke out against it while he was trying to run for the U.S. Senate in Illinois. This was when the concept of going to war was, sadly, very popular with the American public and, even more sad, with the national media including the New York Times. It was a "profile in courage" for him to take that stand against popular opinion while making his first run in a state-wide election. Hillary not only voted to give George W. Bush the "authority" to wage war, she still has refused to apologize or even call her vote a "mistake". John Edwards had the grace and humility to go on national television and say it was the biggest mistake he'd ever made. Edwards' humility and honesty blew me away at the time. I've seen nothing even remotely apologetic from Senator Clinton regarding that vote or an acknowledgment of what the consequences of it have meant: nearly 1 million Iraqis are now dead; 4,000 of our youngest and best fellow citizens are gone forever, and the pumping of $9 Billion per week into that hole which will have to be paid back to our foreign bankers. Iraq was the biggest component in my decision.

2.) NATIONAL CAMPAIGN ORGANIZATION & STRATEGY: Barack proved to me that he could wage a national campaign. Honestly, I must admit that I didn't believe that he could raise the money or put together a national organization or win white voters or stand up in the debates. Every single doubt I had, he not only erased, but proved how stuck in the mud my mind had been. Now we know that he has done what so many of us older liberals had always dreamed of: he keeps bringing hundreds of thousands of new voters to the primaries. And his campaign is still strong and his strategy of a long marathon is clearly showing how the Clintons over-estimated that they would be victorious by now and that they are now nearly out of gas revealing they had no long term back up strategy. It's the tortoise and the hare. And I didn't even mention the money he can raise which is the mother's milk of politics.

3.) CLINTON FATIGUE: Barack does not have the high negatives that Hillary has, and fairly or unfairly, that was also a component in my decision making. I am not so naive as to think that for all the good the Clintons did in the 1990's that if she is our nominee, I would, once again, have to spend time and energy defending against the inevitable Monica Lewinsky wave of reminders that will be on television, radio, newspapers, e-mails, late night comedy shows and frankly, I'm worn out with it. Mitt Romney signaled to the world what is to come "I don't want to have Bill Clinton wandering around the White House with nothing to do." Right or wrong, that will be the the 24/7 mantra by the Republicans and I groan to have to revisit defending that sordid episode yet one more time.

4.) THE INDIVIDUAL: And then, finally, there is the candidate himself. What a positive, hopeful and inspirational leader he has now shown himself to be. He's proved to this older activist that it's time for a generational change and time for someone not purchased by lobbyists to step to the highest office in the land with a fresh and unencumbered approach to governing our beloved country. I take great joy knowing that Barack and Michelle and their precious young girls would be living in the White House. Great pride indeed.

miley_glad_hands, because you asked.

[smiley_glad_hands]

44. I like everything you just posted.

I am concerned about the rezko thing, but alas, no candidate is perfect.

[David Zephyr]

47. Thanks.

There are some grown ups here. Obviously, you are one of them. I apologize for those in my camp who hurt Obama more than help him. While it exists on both sides, I can only speak for my side. I'm not proud of some of the over-the-top posts. I know that Barack would not either.

I'm just glad you are a Democrat and that's what will matter in November.

[smiley_glad_hands]

50. Thank you.

just looking for honest debate.

[TexasObserver]

36. Your vote should stand for more than petulance in the face of annoyance.

That's really pathetic. Your vote should stand for more than petulance in the face of annoyance.

You don't even know if they're legit. Besides, if you're really offended by poster conduct, you lose all credibility when you suggest that Obama supporters here are worse than Hillary's.

[smiley_glad_hands]

37. By supporters of a candidate, Yes.

I didn't post this for acrimony, so take your bull shit somewhere else.

[TexasObserver]

39. I don't believe you.

[smiley_glad_hands]

41. I don't give a shit, lol. eom

[Emillereid]

42. Don't blame Obama for the way people behave on DU. Often I think the

discourse here about both candidates gets a little extreme at times. Try to take it with a grain. People really believe in their respective candidates which is good.

[stillcool]

52. You are responsible..

for your own vote, and your own perception of the American populace. Thank goodness there is another generation that has come up in this country that no longer holds on to certain beliefs. The fascism is already here. Some of us are looking for a way out.

[smiley_glad_hands]

64. Just out of curiousity:

What generation do you refer to? And what beliefs do you refer to? Just looking for honest dialogue in this thread. Facism has always been here and always will to a degree.

[demo dutch]

54. What ever you do Vote in November & Please read my post!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4442423&mesg_id=4442423

[smiley_glad_hands]

66. I will be voting dem no matter.

Just having a hard time choosing between the two. Their policies really arent that different, just their styles and personality. You could say that its superficial, but in todays media driven society, style and personality are what counts and unfortunately has to be considered.

[Tennessee Gal]

59. You should make your own choice. I will simply share why I am

now supporting Hillary.

This election is the most critical in modern history.

The next president will inherit two wars, a raging Middle East, a lack of any meaningful energy policy and an unprecedented loss of American prestige around the world. This is on top of a massive deficit, global warming, unprecedented Washington corruption, a rapidly growing China and a loss of democracy in Russia...this is no ordinary time and one that begs for strong and unique leadership.

Hillary is smart and has a deep grasp of the issues facing us domestically and internationally.

While Obama would probably make a good President, he does not have the depth of experience and the relationships around the world that must be immediately dealt with by our next chief executive.

The times are tough and demanding...our future, in many ways is at stake...and in my mind, Hillary is ready to take on the challenge and lead us out of this mess created by George Bush. No president in modern times has inherited two wars, plus all of the other major issues that will need to be dealt with immediately.

[adapa]

61. i voted the other way & have a different take on the points you make-

The whole second coming thing is a major issue for me-yes, people need to be inspired but after the past 8 years what we really need is help getting back on our feet, so to speak. Help with healthcare, jobs, the environment & getting the bloody hell out of Iraq. I just don’t see many specifics coming from the Obama camp. If he had as good a command of the issues as Hillary does I’d be a lot more inclined to vote for him. But he doesn’t & we can’t afford another president who doesn’t know the issues. Sure he can be briefed but briefing isn’t the same thing as a long understanding of the issues.

I am hopeful the DNC will find a reasonable solution to the problem of FL & MI. Dean is the best person to be in charge of this issue! Given how important FL & MI are in the fall I don’t think we can afford to disenfranchise them. But as a NewHampshire resident I also think the DNC needs to have some plan/order about the primarys.

With regards to the ‘make nice with republicans” issue & the constant attacks the nominee will be subjected to; Hillary has proven she can take it & give it back. The one issue they won’t be able to attack her on is in the war/Iraq/national security domain. I know it’s not popular here but her vote, her experience on the Senate Armed Services Committee and her diplomatic experiences as first lady certainly give her a seat at the table of US foreign policy/commander in chief . This *will* be an issue regardless of the amount of swiftboating that goes on. I understand not wanting to work with republicans but until we have a supermajority our nominee will have to work with them to get bills passed.

One last thought, to go along with demo dutch’s most excellent post, #54. We *have to fix* our health care system after looking at both of them-Hillary’s covers more people at a better price with good insurance.

[TheDonkey]

63. Kerry was chosen very quickly and times were very different. It is worse this time around

in the primaries because we do not have a common enemy like Bush like we did in 04

[smiley_glad_hands]

65. So true.

I think everyone takes it for granted they we will win in November too. I dont think the repugs have gone as low as they can go, yet.

[Solon]

67. To be honest, I think most of his supporters on here are homophobes...

around 90% of them, at least. Of course, he panders to people like that, hence that's the reason I don't support him.