Bill Nelson speaks for Florida Democrats..."Absolutely not" to caucus.

[madfloridian]

Karen Thurman, party chairwoman, not returning calls. Bill Nelson speaking for them.

Time for FL Democrats to caucus?

I don't care if we caucus or not. I am almost beyond caring at this moment. But Nelson should not be the party spokesperson. He should stop insulting the DNC. He should take himself out of this issue, he is too close to Hillary to be objective.

Now that Florida's rogue Democratic primary is over, maybe it’s time for Florida Democrats to start talking once again (as Gene Smith does here) about holding caucuses to divvy up Florida’s Democratic delegates and ensure Florida actually winds up with a voice at the national convention. So far we’ve failed to get calls returned from Karen Thurman, but the Buzz is that Florida Democrats are talking about that very idea or at least leaving it on the table as an option.

But wait, why ask Karen? Why not just rely on Bill?

But then we caught up with Bill Nelson today: "Absolutely not," he said when asked if caucuses might be a good idea. "It’s a huge cost."

Nelson, a Clinton backer, remains confident Florida’s delegates will be seated, though he said Howard Dean keeps insisting he’s powerless to make it happen. "It hasn’t sunk into their their thick heads, the chairman and the DNC, the train wreck that’s about to come if we don’t get those delegations seated."

In the unlikely scenario where the Florida and Michigan delegations would hand the nomination to Hillary Clinton, why in the world would Barack Obama support seating those delegations, we wondered. "Are you going to strong arm Florida and Michigan in order to get the nomination, knowing you’d have very little chance of winning those states on Nov. 4?," Nelson said.

Speaking of thick heads, Bill Nelson. Who's the boss here in Florida?

And if anyone still thinks the Clinton campaign is going to let up about Florida delegates....think again.

[stevenleser]

1. This is a mess

lets all not contribute to the circular firing squad

[madfloridian]

2. I am going to present truth as I see it. I don't attack candidates...just post facts

And Bill Nelson has controlled things here far too long. That is Karen Thurman's job, not his.

[Dr.Phool]

30. That's where the problem lies.

Karen Thurman is Bill Nelson's shill. She's owned lock, stock and barrel.

I had a conversation with Nelson before the '06 elections. A few progressive candidates for congress were trying to get some financial assistance out him. At the time he was sitting on $14 million, and had an excess of what he needed. One of the candidates asked him what he's done for the FDP. His only reply was that "I got Karen Thurman elected as chair".

It's surprising that Gene Smith is calling for caucuses. He's the ultimate insider and never bucks the leadership. But, then again he's no fan of Hillary either.

[MadBadger]

3. I have very little respect for that man as of now.

[sandnsea]

4. Please don't stop caring about this

We desperately need you to be our eyes and ears on this. Is there any group that is organized to stand up against these Clintonian games? What can we do to bring the MI & FL people together on this and let the DNC know we're paying attention.

[stevenleser]

7. I'm writing an article. We'll see where that goes

I'll post it as a response shortly

[madfloridian]

28. I responded.

You did not tell the whole truth.

[madfloridian]

24. Have you noticed...

the influx here? I am under massive attack when I post about it. I don't know of anyone in Florida who is speaking, sadly.

People here are often uninformed because the media only presents the Nelson/Clinton side.

There were many people showing up to vote here on Super Tuesday and getting mad when they found it happened on Jan. 29.

[sandnsea]

25. Do you have any ideas?

What is Markos posting on it? What do you recommend?

[madfloridian]

26. Markos came out against the DNC the very first day.

Most of the bloggers sided with Florida. I have my own opinions why.

There is really nothing to do. The Florida media and the Florida Dems are on the side of the Hillary campaign, and that will not change.

They either do not care or do not realize that it is pushing her to a win by breaking the rules.

Rules are different in Florida.

[chimpymustgo]

43. Madfloridian, what do YOU think is the solution to this?

Thanks, in advance.

[reality based]

5. Why don't we let the people of Florida decide something for a change.

[sandnsea]

6. It's not that simple

Too many people "decide" things based on their allegiance to Presidential campaigns and the voting people don't even know it's going on.

[reality based]

8. It never is, is it?

We need to restore the idea that the will of the voter expressed in the ballot fairly cast and counted should govern our elections. Stop with the petty manipulations. They are a big turnoff.

[madfloridian]

9. The Florida Dems are staging a coup for a certain candidate.

And you want everyone to STFU.

I don't think so.

[reality based]

10. It's called an election- not a coup.

Talk all you want. You're going to have a hard time justifying to Florida Democrats why their votes don't count- again.

[madfloridian]

20. No, they will eventually catch on.

They have been used.

[Cameron27]

11. Despite what your personal feelings are,

and no matter what Dean suggests, I doubt that the citizens of FL who got off their asses and voted the first time, will happily submit to having a re-do, especially if it's going to be a caucus.

[oviedodem]

13. I would do it again. The real reason Bill does not want a caucus is

because it is now apparant Obama does very very well at those. At this point I would not be aversed to just ignoring the delegates because in effect the DNC here messed up ALL candidates.

[Cameron27]

16. I wouldn't,

I don't like caucuses, but that's just me. I honestly don't think most voters will go for a re-do just because the DNC wants one though.

[UALRBSofL]

33. People need to calm down about this issue

Granted, florida will go red this cycle, I feel sure of it, but, we don't need florida to pull out a win in the GE.

The florida media is making an issue of this as much as DNC and Florida Dem Party. The media seems to be doing much of the damage by disenfranchising voters.

[madfloridian]

39. BUT....the Dem party in Florida could have owned up to what they did.

Instead they are using it as a weapon against the DNC, Dean, and withholding financing for the 50 state plan.

[madfloridian]

14. I am surprised you don't mind that Florida is making sure...

that one candidate is the winner.

Think about it. Read my journals. There is a pattern.

It is not about me or the voters. It was never about the voters, not really. If it were about voters, the primary would not have been moved up. It was about who has the power to control things.

[Cameron27]

18. I'm not disagreeing with you on this mad,

I agree with the concept, I just don't think it's going to work practically.

[madfloridian]

29. I don't care about caucus. The vote is done, there were no delegates

alloted. Now everyone wants to change the rules again since Hillary is hurting.

They changed the rules once, or tried. Now they want to change them again.

Thanks for the reply. I think we are basically saying the same thing.

[Thrill]

12. Why not let them vote again?

[madfloridian]

15. I don't care what they do. I just want Nelson to back off.

He has taken control of everything in Florida.

[ChiciB1]

31. FWIW.. Over The Years My Thoughts About Bill Nelson Have Diminished

extremely. Plus Karen Thurman IS his lap dog! What people will do to get "name recognition" is astounding. If I thought it would help in any way I would "try" to do something, but the "goose is cooked!" I was trying to watch the hearing about District 13 that was being held this morning about lost votes, and after a few questions, they switched to another hearing.

And the conclusion is that the machines worked fine, those that were checked and that 99% of them were working fine! Just ANOTHER example of "fixing" a problem by giving a "stamp" of approval on something "because they said so." The guy they were questioning (some weird name) so forgive me if I can't remember it, was uncomfortably laughing, giggling to some extent and you got the feeling that he was given "orders" regarding what to say!

Personally, I don't care WHAT happens with the delegates here anymore! I support neither candidate because I think "both" have enough "dirty hands" in the pot!

This state has become a laughing stock and most of us know that "manipulation" abounds. Things were different when Bob Graham was around, at least he held some of it down to a minimal roar! I suppose it's one of the reasons he opted out of politics. I live in District 13 and can't bring myself to FIGHT anymore! It always ends up in some LOSS with some contrived ANSWER and I find it useless to argue. There was a time I would fight for DEMOCRACY or what is right, but my cynicism has made me understand that my HEALTH is more important! Winning every once in a while could have helped me stay involved, but I've seen very little of it and and constructive fighting for our rights have been IGNORED at every turn! Now I find myself just blogging about it to vent my pent up frustration! I do know that's what they want, but they ALREADY have it.

THEY JUST PLAY GAMES, and don't care what the citizens think!

[mmonk]

17. Break the rules after all the candidates agreed to them

and blame the DNC. Is the party in Florida going to bring the party down?

[Araxen]

27. The people of Florida will

show their distaste for what the Head Dem's in Florida did by voting them out of office next time around. I believe the state should go w/o it's delegates as this is all on their heads in the state and let them pay the price, not the DNC. It's the only way to prevent this thing from happening again.

[LSdemocrat]

19. The DNC should offer to pay for the cost of caucuses at this point

Also make them as open as possible in terms of time required. Hold them on a weekend and minimize the amount of time needed to participate.

[madfloridian]

22. Oh, wait....Florida tried to hurt DNC fundraising. They sent letters and emails

and phone calls...

He offered them money, but they said no.

[BeyondGeography]

21. Insults and threats

Nice job, Senator. Good to have you on the other team.

[newmajority]

23. Florida wants to fix the election again

FUCK THAT.

If you have a problem with Bill Nelson and those other Republican DLC pieces of shit breaking the rules, take it out on THEM. DOn't subject this country to 8 more years of neocon corporate fascism (Hillary or McCain)

[Alexander]

32. Nelson's a DLC shill. Let both states hold a caucus. Done deal.

But nooooooo, the DLC folk are proving they want to win at any cost by forcing Dean and the DNC to accept the delegations as they are, proving that the DLC will break any rule to ensure its stranglehold on the Democratic Party.

[tnlefty]

34. Wouldn't be great if Nelson spent half as much time and

energy opposing the disastrous policies of BushCo** and repubbies?

Thanks for the additional info.

[madfloridian]

35. More Bill Nelson....says we are heading for train wreck if DNC fails to count Florida.

Wow..talk about threats and intimidation from superdelegates!!

http://blogs.theledger.com/default.asp?item=764854

"That's what U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Melbourne, called it on the floor of the Senate today, according to his office. He said this morning that there will be a "train wreck" if Florida and Michigan delegates are not seated at the Democratic National Convention in August.

Nelson sued Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee for stripping Florida of its delegates, arguing that Dean's punishment for holding an earlier primary denied to votes of Florida Democrats.

Dean is now suggesting that Florida hold a caucus, which would still ignore the Democratic voters who cast their ballots in the Jan. 29 primary and instead start voting all over again at local caucuses. Nelson and the Florida Democratic Party leadership have rejected this.

In an interview with Fox News, Nelson said, "You cannot undo an election with a caucus. That would be taking 1.7 million Florida Democrats, which was a record number, and substituting maybe 50,000? That does not work."

He is using the senate floor to politic over Florida votes???

[kerry-is-my-prez]

36. We had a record turnout for the election - it should stand...

n/t

[madfloridian]

37. You want it to count toward the nominee? I surely don't.

.

[CTLawGuy]

40. no one campaigned there

it wasn't a fair election.

[Orangepeel]

38. Neither Clinton nor Obama is going to win Florida against McCain.

So if that's the only reason, Senator Nelson, fuck you and your delgates.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

41. There are three possiblities for Florida and Michigan

1) Seat the delegates as is

This seems just unfair and wrong. How can you have them decide the nominee when candidates were specifically told before the events that these delegates were not to be seated and were told not to campaign there? Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. This seems unreasonable to me.

2) Continue as is, don't seat any delegates

This seems more fair, as the the FDP and MDP were told this would happen, but it still seems wrong that the people in these states won't have a role in who the candidates are

3) Redo the results, with a caucus of some type before May 1.

Although complicated, this seems the most fair to me as it allow both campaigns time to compete, and it allows the people of Michigan and Florida to have a say.

I think if you look it at with the the values of fairness and having people have a voice, the best outcome is another caucus.

[seafan]

42. Yes, a caucus IS the only fair way to resolve this for Florida's delegates.

Right now, it seems that the ultimate excuse we're hearing from Superdelegate Senator Bill Nelson (who is committed to Clinton) is that *it's too expensive to hold a caucus.*

If we can remove that as their crutch for standing in the way of a legitimate delegate selection, then a caucus could follow. I have heard that it would require in the neighborhood of $8 Million to have a caucus in Florida. I don't know what kind of funds the DNC/FL Democratic Party have on hand, but it would seem to me that in the interests of our entire party, they must access them for this effort.


The longer this goes on without a resolution, the more bitter and contentious this fight will be, especially now that people are realizing that the Clinton campaign is pulling out all the stops to prevent Floridians from seeing and hearing from Senator Obama's campaign here.

Let's face the hard facts here: one campaign is claiming victory for merely nothing more than early name recognition in the face of no campaigning by the candidates because of a prior decision that was rendered by the party leadership.

And that same campaign, while now trying to pilfer these ghost delegates, has figuratively locked the other candidate in the basement so that the voters cannot see or hear him until everyone else has left the state.

You see, *possession* of ghost delegates is nine tenths of the law.


This whole debacle is making people here FURIOUS.