This 'CULT" label for Obama supporters is a Swiftboat-style tactic

[npincus]

Is that how Obama's opponents seek to diminish him as a fad or cult-figure and not a person with the qualities or stature to be our next president? It is extremely insulting, a slur to those who like the man, agree with his message and expect great things from him if he becomes our next president. labeling everything Obama a "cult" is a tactic worthy of Karl Rove; turn Obama into a cartoon and his supporters into fools.

The crap on this board is truly unworthy of DU.

[bidenista]

1. so long as his campaign tells volunteers to share stories of conversion...

...instead of policy, it's hardly surprising that people look on Obama's supporters as religiously inspired.

[alteredstate]

39. The campaign hasn't asked supporters to share stories of "conversion"

The word "conversion" was used by a reporter, not the Obama campaign.

We've been over this before.

[niceypoo]

67. Denial isnt just a river in Egypt...

[LittleClarkie]

53. There was a thread a couple of days ago showing Hillary's site asking for stories as well

but no one calls her a cult.

[sandnsea]

2. That's all her campaign has done for a year

There is no reason to vote for Hillary. The best they have come up with is "he's as bad as Hillary", and they have to lie to make that case.

And they call Obama supporters brainwashed cultists. :crazy:

[rodeodance]

27. oh gawd-another obamababy whinning--Go whine to the press-they started it.

[kerrygoddess]

31. So you'll be voting republican?

If Hillary is the nominee. Go figure. Hate her that much do you.

[sandnsea]

34. I judge people by the liars, backstabbers

and money grubbers they surround themselves with.

All's fair in politics, right? It's all a big game. Who cares what's true and not true. We just wash it all off after election day and we're all friends. Isn't that the way it goes?

[kerrygoddess]

42. If you say so.

I guess that includes Obama and what's his name - Rezko?

[sandnsea]

48. Hey, that's what everybody tells me

Hsu, Trie, Chung, Huang. Hillary's former finance director was indicted for chrissake. These are just the fundraising scandals. We haven't even gotten to influence peddling, Burkle, Giustra, Gupta. I don't even want to think about the scandal that's going to explode when their connections to a convicted tax evader become public, Chatwal.

Rezko?? Are you kidding me???

Talk about CULT following. There is NO reason to support Hillary, absolutely none.

[kerrygoddess]

61. Um these weren't all Hillary scandals though

It's not about "their" it's about her. She's running. I know you get that.

[sandnsea]

65. Sure they were

[kerrygoddess]

78. Nice of you to use right wing arguments

I feel sorry to see the hatred for HRC and Bill.

[sandnsea]

81. Unvetted: A Long Long List of Shady Clinton Donors

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4473288

Facts don't have a wing.

[kerrygoddess]

84. Like I said Hillary hatred.

Transparent as hell and really sad.

[rodeodance]

80. cause she talks substance while obama bashs her.

[comfycouch]

3. Everything is considered "Swiftboating' these days.

Swiftboating was about lying, making up facts about Kerry that never happened, calling "witnesses" that were never there when Kerry served in the Swiftboats, etc.

How can that compare to an opinion that current praise towards Obama is a form of cult?

It's opinion vs. facts. Opinions cannot be true or false.
Stop trying to label anything "swiftboating".

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. swiftboat... Rovian... it's like politics was invented this century

[Sapphocrat]

33. You're being generous.

It's like politics was invented about six months ago.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. If you think your candidate is Entitled to respect, politics might not be your bag

You can't run around demanding that people describe your candidate as, "a person with the qualities or stature to be our next president."

This is a democracy, and people will decide that for themselves.

[npincus]

6. This 'CULT" label for Obama supporters is a Swiftboat-style tactic

Is that how Obama's opponents seek to diminish him as a fad or cult-figure and not a person with the qualities or stature to be our next president? It is extremely insulting, a slur to those who like the man, agree with his message and expect great things from him if he becomes our next president. labeling everything Obama a "cult" is a tactic worthy of Karl Rove; turn Obama into a cartoon and his supporters into fools.

The crap on this board is truly unworthy of DU.

[Lisa0825]

7. THANK YOU!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[KaryninMiami]

8. I agree with you completely- and I'm fine with either candidate

I prefer Obama but I'm fine either way and this disgusting slamming of each other is getting a bit old, frankly. We are Democrats, damn it and we can disagree but not at the expense of mocking the other candidate, giving them food for fodder and dividing us into two irreparable sides. The point- main point is-- WE NEED THE REPUBS OUT. Period. Remember that, DU - and remember that we will need every one of us to make that happen, regardless of the candidate.

[Arkana]

9. Absolutely, it is.

[hiaasenrocks]

10. I think it has something to do with the chanting and singing.

One of the weirdest examples was when Stevie Wonder had that Obama crowd in Los Angeles singing "Ba-a-rack O-ba-a-ma" in the melody of one of those eerie monk chanting CDs that became popular in the 90s.

And there's also the "cult of personality" aspect, which isn't REALLY a cult, of course, but probably a more apt term.

[TexasObserver]

11. yes, it is, and that's one more reason it's harder to tell the Clintons

from the Bushes these days

same attitude and tactics, just a little closer to the middle

[Diane R]

12. Yes it is. If Gore isn't charismatic, he's 'boring'. If Obama is charismatic, he's a 'cult'.

[rudy23]

71. Bingo. nt

[NMMNG]

13. Oh, you guys and your "faux outrage"

[madrchsod]

14. cults are for the brain dead

i`m in his posse-

[Indenturedebtor]

15. Yes it is

Those who sling mud become covered in it.

[KennedyGuy]

16. Well..a swiftboat is a false attack..

doesn't apply here...

[FVZA_Colonel]

51. How so?

N/T.

[readmoreoften]

17. Well, then stop proving them right and acting like cultists.

When a reasonable amount of Obamacans vet Obama the way I've seen Edwardians and Hillheads criticize their candidates, I'll accept that it isn't a cult. But Hillary's folks are capable of saying "that's true but..." and Edwards won over many people after a period of distrust for some of his past positions, especially his IWR vote.

But many Obama supporters are wholesale irrational. Instead of challenging their candidate on the anti-gay message of some of his chosen spokespersons, they lash out at LGBTs and call them racist (which is not only offensive and ridiculous, it's absurd to some of the African-American LGBTs on this site.) Instead of debating on issues, they accuse everyone of being "Hillbots" which was patently absurd when Edwards and Kucinich hands down won every support poll on this site.

And finally, their bizarre anger towards anyone who doesn't feel "hope" over their candidate (come on! can't you feel it! FEEL IT OR I'LL BITE!) is counterproductive. Instead of pointing out real reasons to support their candidate over Edwards/Clinton (I heard one solid reason in the past 6 months: Gitmo) they spray HOPE memes in our face.

We don't need more cult-like adoration and mindless soundbytes.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

24. I never miss your posts, always well-written and insightful

:)

[readmoreoften]

28. Thank you!

:)

[Big Blue Marble]

40. "many Obama supporters are wholesale irrational"

Do you really think about what you say before you make such an outrageous and ridiculous statement?

You are saying that the majority of the over 7 million people who have voted for Obama and
the millions more who will are "wholesale irrational' and bizarrely angry. What evidence do you have for
these liabelous claims?

One would wonder if you yourself have fallen victim to projection and paranoia. Of course you would
never know if you had due to that other condition called denial.

I will await links to support your claims.

[Bluebear]

76. 'I turned to her & said "He just shook hands with Barack," to which she responded."Hey, give it up!

"You shook his hand didn't you?" Happily the guy said "Yes." I then said, "give me some of that" and the guy shook my hand with the same hand he had just clasped with Barack's. A woman friend of mine who was standing next to me saw me shake hands with the guy. I turned to her and said "He just shook hands with Barack," to which she responded..."Hey, give it up." We then shook hands. She then turned to the person next to her and shook hands. This chain of hand shakes went on for about five or six more persons...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4057783

=====

Kee-razy.

[NMMNG]

69. Hear, hear

I swear every time I spoke a word against Obama for months the cries of "HILLBOT" rang out as a knee-jerk reaction. Mind you I didn't decide to vote for HRC until a few weeks ago. But to them if you weren't for Obama you were automatically a Hillbot. And they could never rationally discuss any objections to Obama or anything he did, they could only call names, dismiss your complaints as "faux outrage", belittle you, or otherwise treat you like dirt. I've experienced some of the nastiest treatment from the Obama supporters who claim to be for unity, hope and change.

He's a politician, not the second-coming.

And just look how many of these apply:

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

[AZBlue]

18. She "won't let anyone swift boat this country's future" but she will let them swiftboat

her opponent? Nice.

(God I hate that word!)

[rodeodance]

47. she let them swiftboard her opponent--what are you talking about????

[jillan]

19. kinda like calling Bill Clinton a racist?

[kerrygoddess]

29. Yeah - kinda like that exactly.

I guess we can say that Obama supporters and even some Kerry supporters here are swiftboating Hillary. Sad.

[Iceburg]

85. Yup -- Biggest swiftboat attempt of the season /nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. I take no part in that and wish others would not either

I know some people who have been repelled away from Obama because they see too much emphasis on slogans and vague calls for a better future coming from his campaign for their taste. That backlash reaction by some is not fiction. It is happening now with some increased frequency and that dynamic is fair game to talk about.

But it is demeaning to refer to any supporters of a major Democratic candidate as cultists, and if is dishonest also. Cult has a very real definition. The Bo and Peep Flying saucer people were a cult. The compound at Waco Texas was a cult. Moonie followers join a cult. It is a blatant, disrespectful, flame bait lie to call any of Obama's supporters cultists.

The word is way too charged for us to play around with in political combat on boards like this without risking serious long lasting divisions in our party. I hope people cut it out and get back to debating how the real issues either are or are not being addressed.

[calmblueocean]

21. Funny how clear the truth can be when someone finally says it.

This is exactly one of the tools they'll use to defeat Obama if he's the nominee. Count on it.

Thanks for posting this. It needed to be said.

[jasmine621]

22. It wasn't Hillary's campaign that started this. It was your dear MSM.

Obama is making more inroads than even they thought so now they will be reigning him in, little by little.

[nonconformist]

23. Actually, it's more about just people observing and commenting... the MSM picked up on the buzz

from that.

[rodeodance]

25. Take it up with the 3 newspapers editors!!

[Tatiana]

26. And the people who use the terminology here? Or do we go along with the M$M? n/t

[rodeodance]

37. i think some that is what has been observed in his followers.

[BlackVelvet04]

30. I don't feel real sorry for you guys....

people on this very board tried to tell you guys how the Obama supporters were coming across....I tried to say it nicely at first, but NO you guys know it all. You don't hear anything but what you want to hear. Obama supporters kept right on and exposed themselves to this criticism by acting like silly little groupies. The last straw was when the Obama supporters were asked on national television to name some of Obama's accomplishments, not only could they not name any they didn't even seem to understand the difference between an accomplishment and a character trait.

I asked the question of Obama supporters about unity through bipartisanship. I was informed that bipartisanship wasn't necessary nor was compromise BECAUSE OBAMA WOULD PERSUADE THE RIGHT TO SEE IT HIS WAY. I don't know how many of the supporters said virtually the same thing. I hate to tell you but that's the kind of deluded thinking that makes people think you are a cult. It's not realistic, it's not even rational. Oh, and then there was one supporter who wanted to redefine bipartisanship to mean what he wanted it to mean.

Giving a good speech does not a reformer make.



Now that I've pissed you off royally, I'll finish up with saying I understand your excitement. I truly do. After one of his speeches.....I don't remember which one.....I told my dad that he gave a speech in a manner worthy of a cross between MLK and JFK....but the way he said it was much greater than what he said. He didn't say anything with substance. Hope, change, unity, one America, that's all sound bites and buzz words. As an older voter, how many times do you think I've heard that kind of thing in my lifetime? I grant you OBAMA SAYS IT BETTER THAN MOST but it really is recycled politics.

If the stakes weren't so high I might even encourage you in your support of Obama, but the stakes are high. This country is on the verge of economic collapse, IMO and it's not, also IMO, the time for a rookie senator to fill the highest office in this land.

[calmblueocean]

35. just a quick thought

I'm not interested in picking a fight, but I just wanted to point something out.

you said: The last straw was when the Obama supporters were asked on national television to name some of Obama's accomplishments, not only could they not name any they didn't even seem to understand the difference between an accomplishment and a character trait.

Obama has brought a lot of new voters into the process, and there's no surprise when new voters who may not have been politically active before are not well-informed or have a hard time articulating themselves. I think they're in the process of becoming informed, of learning about politics and getting excited about it. These are embryonic Democrats, and yet there's many who would laugh in their faces and tell them to go home. Honestly, you'd think Obama growing the party's base was a crime. It would be nice if there were some recognition that this was happening, that it is something we've needed to do for a long time, that everyone had to start somewhere.

[rodeodance]

44. just a thought--even young Dems should be knowledgable enough to name one

thing of substance! otherwise you have proven the point--

[BlackVelvet04]

45. As I said....

I really did try nicely to have some discussions with Obama supporters. I didn't fling the first piece of shit.

I DO understand the excitement and I do think excitement is good for the party and for the country. Growing the party base is a great thing.

I'll be really excited about the growing of the party base if these new people are still involved if Obama doesn't receive the nomination.

Typically the youth vote has not been dependable. That's just a fact and if the youth want us to take them seriously then they are going to have to be a little more sober about the whole thing.

We had a poster say that 4 or 5 new voters had lost their interest and were so upset because of us mean people on D.U. Well, the enthusiasm wasn't very deep if it was so easily extinguished.

I, for one, was deliberately hard for a reason. After trying to have what I thought were reasonable discussion I realized that I wasn't getting through. The O. supporters really thought that the power of Obama's personality would just bowl everyone over and it would be a cakewalk to the whitehouse. What they got from us on D.U. is NOTHING compared to what they will get from the republicans.

If I honestly believed Obama could beat McCain and turn this country around economically I would vote for him. I don't believe he can do either of those things and I'm not willing to take that chance. While the youth feel that they have more at stake because they are just starting their lives, those of us who have worked for years to makes changes in this country and to build some kind of lives for ourselves feel we have more invested.

The only thing I'm really angry with Obama about is his dissing of a whole generation....a generation who fought their asses off for some of the very civil rights that make HIS candidacy possible. That pisses me off and it pissed a lot of people off. I fought for women's rights, I even fought for the 18 year old vote (which I'm starting to regret) and I RESENT his dismissal of the struggles of the 60's and 70's. I also resent those who think we are ready to be put out to pasture. At 54 I have a whole lot of spunk and life left and I'm not ready to hand my future over to a generation who has yet to show me they are willing to work for what they want.

[Usrename]

77. I don't agree with many of the things you are talking about.

My understanding of history is somewhat limited, but I think I'm correct in believing that any real change in the social or political landscape doesn't ever come from having the right leaders, whether or not they're either charismatic and popular or calculating and competent (I'm not sure that's the correct distinction you are trying to make, but that isn't really important to what I'm trying to express here). My understanding is much different, in that for any real change to happen, it must happen beginning with the great unwashed masses (in this case, I mean voters, of course).

I think this change has already happened, for the most part, or is happening right now. People (who, by the way, don't need to be persuaded or convinced of anything) will automatically gravitate to whatever person best expresses their own world view. That's why this message about change (originally stated very precisely by Obama, and then in a much modified form by Edwards, and now in a very watered down version by Clinton) has survived this far into the political campaign. The people already KNOW (somehow, I don't how) what they want, and they will move to whoever expresses it the best.

I think.

In any event, this is nothing at all like a cult. Not in the same ball park, even. So that claim is double-speak (which the prophet Orwell warned us all about) and it is very Rovian sounding.

My guess would be that a large part of the mania surrounding Obama would only find a different outlet if Obama wasn't in the picture, just as long as someone, anyone, was there to carry on with the message. I'm not so sure Clinton would try to go down that road though, with that message, if Edwards and Obama weren't in the picture.

[rodeodance]

43. i have read that Peggy Noohon used to be speech writer for Reagan--she strung

together a lot of patriotic sounding phases. I think i recall that.

....Now that I've pissed you off royally, I'll finish up with saying I understand your excitement. I truly do. After one of his speeches.....I don't remember which one.....I told my dad that he gave a speech in a manner worthy of a cross between MLK and JFK....but the way he said it was much greater than what he said. He didn't say anything with substance. Hope, change, unity, one America, that's all sound bites and buzz words. As an older voter, how many times do you think I've heard that kind of thing in my lifetime? I grant you OBAMA SAYS IT BETTER THAN MOST but it really is recycled politics.

[Sapphocrat]

32. Everything Obama supporters don't want to hear...

...is a "swiftboat tactic."

Sorry you're late to the party, but a whole lot of us logical types have been talking about this, beyond the claustrophobic confines of DU, for quite some time. Just because you discovered it yesterday doesn't mean it's new. It's just finally hit the MSM -- from the ground up.

Did it ever occur to you that this has been a real bone-chiller to some of us for many months? That it creeps us the hell out, for real?

Oops, sorry, no, you wouldn't believe that for a second, would you? It's just more "faux" whatever from paid Hillshills, right? :eyes:

[lwcon]

36. If I could "recommend" a reply here, I would.

Thank you!

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[NMMNG]

59. "La la la la la la"

Warning sign number 3, by the way:

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

[Usrename]

79. There's plenty about Obama to make the hair stand on end.

This charge of some kind of cult just isn't right.

Nor are the claims upthread that Obama isn't an accomplished person because his supporters cannot list all his accomplisments.

It's all just plain wrong.

Is Obama kinda scarey? Yeah, I think so. But it has a whole lot more to do with his behavior than his rhetoric.

That's the only thing about him that doesn't scare me, his message. It's right on the money and I don't have to join a cult to see that.
The politics in this country are very destructive, and have been for at least a generation, and I think that only the people who would deny that fact are the ones outside the mainstream. Maybe they are the ones who should be relegated to "cult" status.

[sniffa]

38. Please see my thread

and anyone else who hasn't.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4468754

[DemGa]

41. People practically begged for some substance from the

ObamaHeads but just got more soaring rhetoric and personality. That, and the nasty attacks on the Clinton's while chanting unity also raised suspicions.

Sorry, Obama brought it on himself.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. So why does the Clinton campaign steal his slogans? nt

[BlackVelvet04]

50. Your question shows that you clearly have no idea what anyone

is talking about.

[BlackVelvet04]

49. Yes, we certainly did.......

I for one have spent too many years working for change...yeah, it takes work, not words, and working to build a home and a life for my husband and myself to turn my future over to kids who haven't shown me they are ready to work for anything. While they may have more time left on this earth I have more invested on this earth and I'm not willing to hand that over because they thing their youth entitles them to it. They'll have to earn it.

[Jed Dilligan]

54. I'm sorry you have such terrible kids,

but who is responsible for that?

[BlackVelvet04]

55. I don't have any kids.......

I'm talking about the Obama supporters. Jed..just don't start with me tonight.

[Jed Dilligan]

56. Oh. I read that post wrong, then. Never mind.

You were just attacking younger people in general. My mistake.

on edit: Minus kids, building a "home and life" with your husband can hardly be seen as a service to society. Just sayin'.

:shrug:

[BlackVelvet04]

57. Yes, it was your mistake, Jed. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

58. No response to the edit? nt

[BlackVelvet04]

62. I don't have the inclination nor the patience

to deal with you tonight.

[Jed Dilligan]

64. Awwwwwwww....

Poor thing is tired. Well, maybe tomorrow you will be able to enlighten me more as to the thought processes of the Hillary supporter.

[BlackVelvet04]

66. Actually, poor thing has a

101 fever and the flu.

[Jed Dilligan]

68. Well, I hope you feel better

I can't imagine coming on here in your condition. Not under these circumstances.

I really do want to understand what makes you tick. Some Hillary stuff, like the mandates, come from a different universe than the one I live in, and I can't find anyone else here who can discuss it without just resorting to poo-flinging.

Sorry if I make you feel harried. I'm really pretty earnest.

[BlackVelvet04]

75. Thanks.....

if I could lay down without coughing I wouldn't be on here.

As to what makes me tick, that's probably a very scary place to go. As for the mandates, to be honest when I first heard about health care mandates I was furious...I believe my response was fuck that. But, the more I read about health care the more I believe that mandatory is the only way to make a universal health care system work.

My best friend's mother is dying of cancer and she's at home. My friend is doing all of her care and is exhausted and has no life because they can't afford anyone to help. That's just not right. Her mother is the only family she has and she's going to be the one to wake up and find her dead. That just sucks.

[Jed Dilligan]

82. Sorry to hear about your friend

One of my best friends (really a mentor) has end-stage kidney disease and his partner was supposed to be dead two years ago with breast cancer that spread to her brain and spine. Now he's looking at homelessness when she passes on, because the way his Medicaid is set up the state will take the house if she leaves it to him. It's a really horrible situation and part of why I am leery of "insurance" style solutions.

To me the worst part of the end of life is what it brings out in others--the ghoulish natures of people you thought were okay. Unfortunately, no amount of healthcare will ever stave that off.

[KoKo]

52. That's not totally fair characterization...

There are some who do feel that there's an Evangelical Worship of Obama's "Feel Good...Hope & Change" message.

So many of us over 40 have heard this message of "Hope & Change" from Carter on down by Dem Candidates...including the great Charismatic "Man from Hope, Arkansas" Bill Clinton that we get very jaded by messages that can "whip up a crowd" but end up being dashed by the REALITY when one gets into the White House and faces the "Inner Beltway Crowd" and the "Corporate McMedia" who always treats Dem Presidents very differently than Republican Presidents.

We are cautious...having lived through it all before. "Promises...Promises."

[faithfulcitizen]

60. It's jealousy, plain & simple. Some of these posters do remind me of Reese W. in "Election"!

[BlackVelvet04]

63. that's a high school mentality answer. n/t

[faithfulcitizen]

70. No, it's a high school mentality to dismiss 1/2 the party as a cult and stop their feet because

their candidate was *supposed* to win. Again, much like the character in the movie Election, which in fact took place in high school. To say that all Obama supporters are cult worshipers is just a cop out.

[Bluebear]

73. You're right, they are not ALL cult worshippers.

[Bluebear]

72. "Get over it & lighten up!" - at least that's what gays were told re: McClurkin.

Also, don't worry, NOBODY is talking about the cult label outside of DU ;)

[JVS]

74. It's a douchebag tactic

[ProSense]

83. It's desperation.

7.3 million votes for Obama

7.3 million votes for Hillary