WARNING OBAMA Supporters: You are facing a SOPHISTICATED Opponent

[Sensitivity]

The various themes labeling the Obama campaign that appear in the public discussion as if from nowhere are calculated by a well paid and highly sophisticated public information campaign designed to define and contain Barack Obama. The intended result – he can have as many big rallies as he wants he will never break through the electoral ceiling – key voting groups will never accept his candidacy, a question mark will remain over his campaign.

The latest effort is to define the Obama movement as a “cult.” This term has powerful connotations for as large part of the population. They may not view it as negative, it may even be seen as humorous, but many will just stay away from any associations with any “cult” like group. Clinton did not use the term “fairytale” by accident.

Another is the new barrage of call for constant debates. While in debates it is obvious that Obama is not served by any effort to upbraid Hillary for misstatements of misrepresentations of his positions – it only give more attention to the lie – Obama is constrained from doing the same because of his “high-minded” approach and the rules of propriety in male-female conflict. The call for debates were clearly designed to define Obama as weak in the face of the Clinton challenge – how will he face McCain if he can face Clinton.

One could go on and on. Obama has a very good grassroots ground effort, with skill perhaps never before witnessed. However, sophisticated messages are being fed into the MSM which will stealthily destroy the Obama campaign unless strong counter-propagand measures are taken. McCain is not the danger. His principles tie his hands almost in the way Obama is tied. McCain will be relatively pleasant. The danger is now. Hillary is not paying the big bucks for nothing.

[billbuckhead]

1. Just watch Obama supporters in action and make up your own mind

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0>

[polpilot]

29. Accomplishments..uh...beating Hillary Clinton?

Hillary's accomplishment...Bringing us the Iraqi War??

[Dogmudgeon]

2. We're ten feet tall and made of STEEL

We have incredible SUPER POWERS.

We can change the course of mighty rivers ... bend steel in our bare hands ...

Not even Kryptonite can slow us down.

WE ARE INVINCIBLE!

... or maybe you're just being over-dramatic.

That "cult" thing really got your collective goat, didn't it?

--p!

[Sensitivity]

66. I wish what is being quitely done to undermine Obama was funny. But it is real and very serious

[GalleryGod]

3. Excellent...Two MORE for IGNORE.

Against Obama...old Pop-Pop s going to carry 10 states.

[billbuckhead]

18. The Mandela of Reaganism will beat Obama in all the red states + CA and PA

Democrats always underestimate the Republican's proven ability to elect politicians. The real reason the RepubliKKKans hate the Clintons is they are the only Democrats to really consistently beat them 30 years running.

[dionysus]

57. the pukes will win CA?? bwahahahah

pphhhhhhhhttt *cough cough* thats some good shit man....

[Bread and Circus]

4. two words: Mark Penn... the Clintons' Svengali (actually that's 5 words)

[1776Forever]

28. Mark Penn's Firm Paid 5.8 Million By Clinton Campaign

Even if his candidate fails to secure the Democratic nomination, Mark Penn, the chief strategist for Sen. Hillary Clinton, has profited quite handsomely.

Through the course of the primary, Penn's consulting firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates, has been paid more than $4.3 million by the Clinton campaign, according to a review of campaign finance filings.

That total, compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, includes receipts for tasks ranging from polling and consulting to mail expenses and even photography. It does not include the $1.5 million the Clinton campaign is in debt to the firm.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/mark-penns-fir...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's right, counting unpaid bills, she's into Mark Penn for 5.8 MILLION DOLLARS.

Don't you find this way over the top? I couldn't find salary for David Axelrod, Obama's Chief Strategist but I bet it isn't as much.

[Sensitivity]

51. McCain propaganda specialist will work just a hard but it is more effect when the framing comes from

your own party. That is, if your own party think you are a flip-flopper, of course you are.
If you own party think you are a "preacher-man" leading a "cultic" movement, who can deny it.

[Whisp]

40. 3 words. Mark Pig Penn.

of the Rovian species.

[K Gardner]

5. Bravo. And we need to recognize this disinformation for what it is and call it out before it

takes hold. By whatever means we can, if it is continually shown clearly to be the product of the Clinton Meme Machine, it will fall flat. People here have clearly debunked and neutralized the Debategate and Cult Memes fairly successfully. Camp Clinton just looks ridiculous now when they parrot the talking points. Excellent post !

[AZBlue]

12. Yes, but the media's not covering the truth enough.

We need to demand that these lies be exposed, through letters, e-mails and calls. I've been writing several tonight as I've been surfing DU and I'm about to compose a LTTE.

[goodgd_yall]

16. It's not that easy to debunk

People referring to Obama supporters as being like a cult don't mean it literally. It's more about the "cult of personality" which is, clearly, a characteristic of his supporters.

[Sensitivity]

36. If it was easy to debunk would not be so effectively fed into the stream of debate and MSM

[Sensitivity]

37. If it was easy to debunk would not be so effectively fed into the stream of debate and MSM

[rodeodance]

46. I would have thought that you of all people would not buy into such nonsence. You have

no proof whatso ever!!

Thank hard before you do damage to your own camp.

[thevoiceofreason]

6. Hopefully, Barack will continue to counter the lies

And smears. Their campaign is disingenuous. And evil.

[bidenista]

7. the first step to resisting such wicked efforts...

...is a change of headgear.

[anamandujano]

34. ROFL!

They can sure dish it out but they can't take it.

[Josiah1982]

38. rofl

[libbygurl]

58. Ehh. nt

;)

[michaz]

8. Sophisticated, I think not. Sophistication to me is not a person who

falsely leads people in to donating to her campaign by making them "believe" she is in need of funds. Call this trick what you want, it is still a trick and the MSM is starting to pick up on it!

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I'm not so sure only one team plays that field

There was a long period in the summer into fall when veiled sexist terms were applied to Hillary Clinton with astonishing regularity wherever you looked (like "shrill" and "cackle") before it became apparent that they were starting to fuel a female backlash in support of Clinton. Then there was the sudden ever present and always noted meme that every single thing Clinton did was out of "desperation". The Obama campaign even had a domain name secretly registered; "DesperateHillaryAttacks.com".

And Atlanta's Mayor did not link "fairytale", completely out of context, with Hope that Barack Obama inspires, as a put down of Bill Clinton (who referred to Obama's claim to have an unbroken ardent record of opposing the Iraq War) accidentally either.

[usregimechange]

10. Rove would be proud.

[mopinko]

11. and he bats them down.

the sc speech was such a beauty, because he just reached out and smacked down that stupid raygun bullshit. this is where the wicked obama humor is the most deadly.
fear not.

[madrchsod]

13. no problem------->he has a posse

[madrchsod]

14. delete

[goodgd_yall]

15. I agree that the overzealousness and "rock star" nature

of some of Obama's supporters is going to be used against him big time. And I think it will be effective. However, the negative image has a grain of truth. That combined with Obama's tendency to speak in large-picture/little detail terms in his speeches adds to the ammunition that the other side will use to deride his candidacy.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. Latest efforts? Many have been calling them a cult for months and months now.

Q public is just catching on.

[libbygurl]

26. Exactly. I felt they behaved like a cult like, two months ago. No one sent me a memo then. nt

[rodeodance]

48. but now the major papers are writing articles-nytime, latimes. guardian. They are

in a feeding freezy.

Even obama people here on Du are recognizing some of the charactices of a "cult~ --although that word is a bit drastic to me.

and if you read upstream--obama campers--some of them are ready to blame the hillary campaign for this.

[libbygurl]

60. It's really simple: once again, it's all the Clintons' fault.

Don't you know that by now? (You need re-education, my friend. Heh.)

:crazy:

[nonconformist]

19. Actually, the cult thing was more about people just making observations... grassroots-style.

This was not a meme that came from the Hillary camp... people just started making that observation due to bizarre and creepy behavior they witnessed. Then the media started noticing.

Shrug it off as a calculated accusation from paid staffers... but that just doesn't seem to be the case. When you start acting like a cult, you get labeled as such.

[sfam]

21. So what...you just keep on repeating, "when you're acting like a cult...cult...cult...then..

people pick up on it?

So like, do they sacrifice goats at Obama rallies? Is this the creepy behavior which you are referring to? Are they all wearing hoods of some kind?

Or perhaps that they use incredibly bizarre "cultish" color schemes like red, white and blue everywhere? Perhaps its the speeches that involve the "cult" following saying certain phrases during the speech, not too dissimilar in any way from any other candidate, but definitely more "cultish" when Obama uses it. Or perhaps its that cultish "patriotism" word that gets thrown around so much at these cult gatherings.

Truly, DU constantly amazes me with people who have no compunction to say whatever they think might bring down the opposing candidate, no matter how disingenuous. By all means, get the poll-tested "cult" meme out there and see if it works. Certainly some of the MSM has picked up on it, although its still fairly fringe usage so far. Just don't let me catch those pushing this nonsense that they are interested in changing our country. When you slime and grime your way to victory, the shining tower you've achieved at the top of the hill suddenly ends up far less shining. And whatever you were at one time looking to achieve, I think you'll find that when speaking from a slimy tower, your voice doesn't carry so well. This WILL affect your ability to win support for anything you do, as people will look at you as one more slimeball surrogate supporting just another Pol.

[nonconformist]

24. Or, things like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4057783

For starters.

[sfam]

30. Is this where I'm supposed to post the NY Now rant???

Truly childish...

[NMMNG]

31. Yep, that's downright creepy.

"I touched the hand of someone who touched the hand of someone who touched the hand of someone who touched the hand of someone who touched the hand of someone who shook hands with Obama." :swoon:


And then look how many of these fit: http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

[nonconformist]

32. Wow. A few of those were were downright chilling in their aptness. nt

[libbygurl]

56. Wow, I like this part very much, though....

...many of which, to me, reflect the other candidate's campaign, especially those in boldface.

Of course, that's just my humble opinion!


Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector. ..

---------

Edited for grammar.

[Sensitivity]

52. This is not a DU think -- I was introduced into varied media streams

by whomever is behind the strategy.

[Sensitivity]

53. This is not a DU think -- I was introduced into varied media streams

by whomever is behind the strategy.

[TwilightGardener]

20. Agreed--PR spinsters on her campaign know how to manipulate the media

into pushing whatever theme is advantageous. I think Obama's camp knows that--they just need to be ready NOT to take the bait or overreact.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. I don't see any sophisticated opponents

[Sensitivity]

44. If there ware clear fingerprints it would not work so well

[TexasObserver]

23. You're right, but the Clintons have become a parody of themselves

No one believes anything that campaign puts out, except the very ignorant.

[libbygurl]

25. Danger! Danger! Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!

LOL.

[woolldog]

39. What does that mean?

genuinely curious...

[libbygurl]

54. Oops, I'm showing my age! Anyone else here familiar with this? Well,...

...it's what the family Robot in the tongue-in-cheekish, benign and gently hilarious 1960s TV series 'Lost in Space' would tell the boy, Will Robinson (teenage son in the family and best friend of Robot), when there was something amiss nearby.

[TexasObserver]

62. Probably one of the Clinton crazies

... that I've put on Ignore.

I get rid of the nuts quickly. Makes reading the board so much easier, and they all say the same dumb things, so once you've read a few of them, you've read them all. They sure get pissy when you ignore them. Try it, it's easy and refreshing.

[rug]

27. Paranoia is one of the descriptors of a cult.

[libbygurl]

33. Bingo. nt

[Sensitivity]

35. Beautiful. The idea that a campaign with the likes of Brzezinski, Kerry and Nelson

could be so characterized is a fabulous reach.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Yeah, but

A campaign that includes Kirbyjon Caldwell, 'spiritual adviser' to GW Bush, and allows the likes of McClurikin to actually sermonize against a Democratic voting minority, overtly, blatantly and by name, can easily be thusly characterized. I mean at least one Obama event had his surrogate saying that I need to be 'delivered by God' from myself and my family, and Obama backers when questioned about it go ballistic.
Not one of them can simply give a reply to this question: How is Obama's use of Religious divisivism with McClurkin different from the GOP's use of Dobson and company? I'd just like to know the thinking, because religious people bashing me at Democratic campaign events is simply not something I welcome in this Party at all. Why do Obama backers welcome such tactics, and do you not expect that in light of those tactics, gay people and pro choice people might be a tad on the nervous side? I mean, Obama had the cake, can he eat it too?
This is an issue that for me personally, if it is not adequatley addressed by Barack Obama, will lead me to refuse him my vote. I've been asking about it for months. I know Obama's 'record' and I know the chruch. I have actually worked with Gospel stars, I know the context. And I do not approve. I am not alone. Ex-Gay movement is vile and abusive, and Obama seems to approve of it. Or not. Depending on the crowd and the state.
If I can not cut throught this bs I will not be voting for him, and the word 'cult' is very discriptive of a group that can not deal with an objection. A man who can not admit to either a mistake in those events, or admit he did it with cold intention. Which is it? A guess on my part will mean no vote for Obama in May. But hey, he's way ahead and as the Obama boosters always say, he does not need the gay vote. Or the women, Latins, those over 50, secular people...in short, he thinks he can win without Democrats. He is wrong.

[Bright Eyes]

41. I fear you're right.

And the Hillbots here are following lock-step.

[FrenchieCat]

42. I will be talking to a lot of people, starting now.

This shit will not stand!

[polichick]

43. Watching Hillary's biography again last night reminded me...

...that this very likeable couple will stop at nothing to win ~ when they talked about her going into "battle mode" to make sure the women Bill screwed were screwed again in public I could have thrown up. This is an intelligent and talented woman completely driven to win, no matter what. I don't want these people back in the WH.

[rodeodance]

45. ARE you accusing the Hillary campaign of instigating this cult issue? If you are,

you are foolish!---you have no proof whatsoever and will not do your camp any good.



One could go on and on. Obama has a very good grassroots ground effort, with skill perhaps never before witnessed. However, sophisticated messages are being fed into the MSM which will stealthily destroy the Obama campaign unless strong counter-propagand measures are taken. McCain is not the danger. His principles tie his hands almost in the way Obama is tied. McCain will be relatively pleasant. The danger is now. Hillary is not paying the big bucks for nothing.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Yes, I am.

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
(Won't apologize for IWR vote, lists excuses)

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
(Planted questions and scripted Hallmark channel town hall)

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
(Won't release tax returns)

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
(Vast right wing conspiracy, media conspiracy)

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
(Kennedy, Kerry, Moveon, and Culinary Union thrown under the bus)

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
(Throngs of former Clinton admin. workers and advisers defecting and criticizing and thus being labeled right wing shrills)

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
(See 90's)

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
(I won't even touch this one for fear of being flamed to death)

The group/leader is always right.
(Clinton voted against a ban on Daisy cutter use on civilian populations...being defended on DU as just one example)

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
(It isn't true unless it is posted on hillaryis44 or by Taylor Marsh)

[rodeodance]

49. be careful before you start accusing anyone/any group without a shread of evidense!

[FrenchieCat]

50. Yeah....right!

"Come on! Spread it around! You know you owe me"

[cooolandrew]

55. I can only forgive HRC and god bless her and her supporters I'll reach for positivity over animosity

[Avalux]

61. Sophisticated? No. Devious? Yes.

Hillary will stop at nothing to get the nomination she feels entitled to; with the Clintons, the ends justify the means. I am proud to support a candidate who doesn't operate that way.

[Vinca]

63. We are facing Grampa McCain. It's really quite funny when you

watch his "my friends" presentations backed up by a row of geezers so old they only stay awake half the time. Michael Moore just called McCain "loony tunes" and said he hopes he's the nominee just for the comedy value. Then there's the hugging Shrub photo and the idiotic statement about staying in Iraq for 100 years. "Sophisticated" is not the kind of threat he poses unless it's applied to software design and shady voting machine providers.

[DemGa]

64. That's nothing compared to what the right-wing machine is about

to throw at him.

It's going to get increasingly hard to blame the Clintons for the divisiveness of the nineties while he's getting pummeled by the right-wing machine.

Oh and cries of unity? That's gonna be a riot!

[Sensitivity]

65. It is so much easier to fight the enemies lies than a friends