For Obama Supporters Only

[readmoreoften]

Poll question: For Obama Supporters Only

Will you support Clinton in the general, if she should win?

[readmoreoften]

1. kick for more info

[ingac70]

2. There is only one way I can vote for Hillary...

and that is if Obama is her VP.

I hope it doesn't come to that.

[KaryninMiami]

5. So would you then vote for McCain or just not vote?

Are you saying that if Hillary wins the nomination and Obama is not the VP you won't support the party and particpate in ridding the world of the Bushes? She's not my first choice either- in fact, neither is he. But Gore does not appear to be running and Edwards seems to have pulled out and Kucinich stole my heart but would never be able to win so we're left with the 2 who have a shot at actually pulling this off. For God's sake, don't you think that whatever it takes to get them out is what we we all need to be focused on here? I mean- think Iran. Think our planet. Think-- Supreme Court. Don't you think- in spite of her faults--- that we'd have a better chance of a pro-choice, progressive Supreme court with her when those seats open up? That's one of many. She may not be our first choice but - face it, she may be the choice we will all need to make and frankly, I for one, think she's an excellent choice overall. Sorry to rant.

[ingac70]

13. I won't vote.

Her voting for the IWR resolution was bad enough, but her voting for the Kyl/Lieberman solidifies it for me. She isn't worthy of my vote.

The Democrats in the Senate can block the appointments of anyone McCain puts up. Hopefully they'll have the balls to do it.

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. and I supposed when Stevens and Ginsberg retire

you'll be happy to have them replaced by McCain on the Supreme Court with Alito and Roberts II.

[Telly Savalas]

25. Democrats in the Senate would try to block a GOP appointment?

Why would that start happening?

[DUyellow]

7. Obama as VP would be a sell out in my book.

[Big Blue Marble]

17. I completely agree.

How could he justify joining the person who represents the kind of divisive politics he is wanting us to get beyond.

[DUyellow]

19. yup... and if he is the VP, he will not have a say in anything, It would be worst than Gore

[Wombatzu]

11. will never happen...

the Clintons will lose the General Election and the party will belong to Obama. McCain will be a one-term president. there's no reason for Obama to capitulate to the Clinton machine.

[mckeown1128]

16. Your scenario is spot on.

If I may add. Obama will never except the VP slot. He won't want to be connected with a new round of Clinton scandals. He will run for Governor of Illinois and come back in 4 years with executive experience.


Note: I don't think Clinton will offer him the VP anyway.

[GoldieAZ49]

60. I like that!

besides, Bill will be the VP if the Clintons win

Hillary pitched a fit when Gore got the VP office, she had to take another office in the west wing. The only first lady to have done so.

Another co presidency... :puke:

[readmoreoften]

23. Wait the general election will never happen because Clinton will lose the general election?

Will you vote for her or not? Regardless if she beats McCain?

[Wombatzu]

35. i was responding to...

the person who said that they would only vote for Clinton if Obama was the VP, and i think that will never happen. Obama is young and the future of the party and has no reason to get stuck with VP.

and, no, i will not vote for Clinton.

[readmoreoften]

43. Ah. Gotcha.

Sorry, couldn't follow the thread tree.

[Nitrogenica]

3. Of course.

[Flabbergasted]

4. Most Likely

[Azathoth]

6. Depends on how she wins it

If it's an honest victory, then absolutely.

[readmoreoften]

26. How would you know?

What if Obama's victory isn't honest? How would you know? Regardless, the fact that both campaigns were anointed by the press from the onset is evidence of tampering as far as I'm concerned.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. without reservation

and I think any Obama supporter that wouldn't isn't a real Democrat.

[Big Blue Marble]

20. I will not vote for her.

And I am a very liberal independent who is a real democrat with a small d.

[mmonk]

9. Yes. For the court appointments.

I think also this will be my last voting election regardless.

[Deja Q]

10. There's a lot from her campaign I do like...

but my big worry is the economy and jobs here at home. Jobs which pay the taxes necessary for all the programs she wants to put into reality.

Especially if we are all required to have health insurance; without jobs, what happens? Get thrown in jail because we don't have insurance? (That sounds asinine, but she said "insurance", not "care" - two very different things.)

Things will get better as the primaries are ended and the debates of merit actually begin.

[unkachuck]

12. hell no....

....that's like asking me to support mcCain....

[Wombatzu]

14. but she's a woman

so you're supposed to ignore what she actually does and just believe nice things about her.

[readmoreoften]

21. Does that courtesy-of-ignorance extend to African-American candidates as well?

Or is it "racist" for me to point out your sexism?

[Wombatzu]

36. it has nothing to do with sexism

hell, if you made Elizabeth Edwards the nominee, i would get in the trenches for her.

the Clintons creep me out. they are shady characters.

[readmoreoften]

38. Yes but she's not using her sex to be untouchable any more than Obama is using his race to be

untouchable.

[Wombatzu]

40. i agree with that...

but i think there's a certain demographic or two that are forgiving her many things for the fact that she is a woman.

[readmoreoften]

41. Oh agreed.

I think the same goes for Obama.

[Wombatzu]

37. and...

if you took a male candidate without a huge brand-name and gave him Hillary's resume, he wouldn't have made it past NH. that was my point.

[readmoreoften]

39. Uhhhhh.

Would Obama have the nomination if he was in John Edwards' body? Are you really willing to say that Obama has not been turned into a brand? Are you really willing to say that being African-American isn't a huge boon to his campaign.

It's not like Hillary "put on" her gender or Obama "put on" his ethnicity for the campaign. It's hard to criticize them for this.

[Wombatzu]

46. that's interesting...

Obama definitely has a brand name now, and his ethnicity is definitely part of his aura or whatever... but there's something about him that transcends race and i think that's part of his appeal.

and i'm not criticizing Clinton for her gender. what i'm saying is that i think her gender matters too much to many of her supporters.

[Whisp]

15. trap.

as an aside, I'd rather chew my arm off than vote for another Clinton.

good thing I can't vote being a noncitisen of the Empire of War. I saved my arm.

lots of them missing in iraq tho - along with a million or two dead gone forever civilians. lots of arms missing in the military, too. and legs.

Hillary will continue the quagmire.

[Orangepeel]

18. Duh.

I like Clinton, even though I prefer Obama. But even if I didn't, I'm not a "cut off my nose to spite my face" kind of person.

[Danger Mouse]

24. absolutely.

[Yurovsky]

27. Vote for Hillary=vote for Haliburton ...

sorry, but I don't want the blood of innocent Iraqi (or Iranian) children on MY hands.

I'll vote Green, Socialist, or Communist, depending on whom is on my ballot and what I can learn about each candidate.

[readmoreoften]

29. Really? She's that much different than Obama?

George Will and neoconservatives Kristol and Kagan are excited about Obama because he's closer to a Green, Socialist, or Communist? He wants to expand the military and expand protection of "vital American assets" overseas according to his speech at the Council on Foreign Relations. How is this closer to Socialism than Clinton?

Point of clarification: I have no dog in this fight. I may not vote for either and even if I do, I intend to leave the party after this vote. It's gone too conservative.

[Yurovsky]

89. I was a Dennis Kucinich supporter ...

and I'd give anything to have him in the White House. Seeing as how that is not going to happen, I still view Obama as the closest thing to an anti-war president were going to get.

Hillary, OTOH, has even green-lighted Bush's desire to invade Iran (at least the initial vote). That's all we need ...

I hoped Kucinich would win and end the war. I think Obama can and will. I KNOW Hillary will continue the bloodshed (a female LBJ, IMHO).

[Pushed To The Left]

28. Definitely Yes

Anybody who wouldn't would be making 8 years of President McBush a stronger possibility. If you like war with Iran, 100 more years in Iraq, Roe v. Wade overturned by an even more right-wing Supreme Court, etc. then go ahead and vote against the Democratic nominee. For the rest of us who are sick and tired of the far right being in control, we'll be voting for the Democratic candidate. I really hope it's Obama, but if it's Clinton I will do whatever I can to get her in there!

[IndianaGreen]

30. Only if she wins fair and square

On the other hand, if the party insiders and the party chair decide to second guess the will of the voters and pick someone of their own choosing, regardless of whether it is Hillary or Obama, the public will react with anger and all bets are off.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Fuckin Morons.

(Those voting no, obviously...)

[goldcanyonaz]

32. Makes one wonder the ulterior motives of some posting here.

[Mass]

33. Well, could they have wanted to mess up with those Clinton supporters who think these

polls useful? May be it was one too many today, simply.

[goodgd_yall]

54. Not the ones in the thread saying they won't vote for her.

I don't know what they're doing on DU. They might as well be trolls. If she gets the nomination, what will they be doing? Hopefully they'll steer clear of the political discussions, but on the other hand, they might not.

[Hutzpa]

34. You left out UNDECIDED n/t

[LittleClarkie]

42. Vote for, yes. Campaign for, dunno yet.

I would have to give her the "Kerry treatment" and see if I could warm up to her.

It worked with Kerry, in spades. So I'd at least give her a chance.

[chieftain]

44. Yes with one big caveat. I do not like what she is doing with the

Michigan and Florida votes. These were essentially exhibition games that she now is trying to change into meaningful contests to up her delegate total. If she wins by virtue of the edge she has in those 2 states, I may not be able to vote for her. If she wins fair and square, she can count on my vote, my donations and my volunteer work.

[DFLforever]

45. I voted YES but it's provisional

If she tries to warmonger with McCain on Iraq (and Iran) and plays the fear card on national security, I'll not vote for her.

[amb123]

47. With great reluctance, Yes.

Anything's better than the Fascist Republican Party.

[jackson_dem]

48. So 35% of Obama supporters here aren't Democrats

:puke:

[donheld]

49. Only Dems I know who are refusing to vote for Hillary are

GRUMPY OLD MEN.

[scheming daemons]

50. I'll be too busy working for the "cult".....

...keep insulting me and calling me a "cult member"... and then have the nerve to ask for my vote?


Fuck you.

[Jed Dilligan]

51. If I have time that day, maybe

It won't matter, California's going to her even if I write-in Ringo Starr.

Four years of Hillary?

:boring:

Wake me up when it's over, or if someone tries to mandate me and I need to write my congresswoman to stop it.

[Indenturedebtor]

52. Only if she doesn't steal it

If she steals it with super delegates or by getting FL or MI seated I may damn well vote for McCain :mad:

I hate to say it but I'll take a huge crap in the community pool before I fly this country for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Norwood]

53. probably not

[Political Heretic]

55. Yes and I seriously think people who voted no ought to just leave DEMOCRATIC underground.

[goodgd_yall]

56. I totally agree n/t

[Wombatzu]

57. irony much?

[Norwood]

58. ROTFLMAO! You beat me to it!

Be a good little Democrat and fall in line then huh?

[goodgd_yall]

59. Read the DU rules, newcomer.. n/t

[Norwood]

61. I've been here longer than you sparky

And just what rule did I happen to break. This should be good.

[goodgd_yall]

63. Was I posting to you? I don't think so.

[Norwood]

64. My bad on that then, but still what rule has he broken?

Openly supporting a candidate who's not a Democrat is against the rules, saying you won't vote for the Democratic nominee is not as far as I know.

[goodgd_yall]

65. This is a forum for Democrats

No, technically, it isn't against the rules. But if one doesn't vote for the Democratic candidate for president, it's as good as a vote for the Republican, in my book.

[Wombatzu]

62. oh, feel free to gag me or gulag me or whatever...

i've lurked here to keep up on news items and just thought i'd throw my two cents in. if free speech isn't tolerated here, that's fine.

i will never vote for the Clintons. the end.

[Political Heretic]

66. Zero irony whatsoever.

Simply accordance with DU rules, and DU's definition.

This is a place for democrats.

[Wombatzu]

68. still ironic...

when you have lost your sense of irony or humor, you should step back and take stock.

i voted for Gore, i voted for Kerry... i will not vote for the Clintons.

i'll speak my mind until i am banned or gagged.

[Political Heretic]

69. Irony has an actual definition.

This isn't it.

[Wombatzu]

70. it is the height of irony

to tell someone they have to vote a certain way in order to take part in DEMOCRATIC Underground.

to not admit that is to be part of a rabble with a banner and not a group of people organized by ideals.

[Political Heretic]

72. Not when you understand the name as it is intended.

Democratic in this title does not mean a direct democracy forum. That would then be ironic. Democratic in this title, and I'm not giving my opinion, I'm just capable of reading site information, rules and guidelines, refers to the Democratic Party.

In which case, suggesting that people who won't support the democratic party might want to make there way out of democratic underground isn't ironic at all.

It might be lame, stupid, ignorant, arrogant or any other negative word you want to throw at it - but it isn't ironic.

[Wombatzu]

76. sure it is

if it points out that doctrine has overpowered the actual ideal for which the party was named, then it is ironic. get over it.

and you are a "Heretic" telling me to get with the prevailing orthodoxy. it's ironic. get over it.

and maybe a Democrat might want to see the party purged of the Clinton network. get over it.

[Political Heretic]

79. It's not the prevailing orthodoxy.

I don't see that an organization that suggests that people who stand opposed to the organization might want to consider moving on is ironic. Because it isn't. I didn't ask you to be banned. That seems to be the mistake you're making. I asked you to leave. I can ask you to leave, as my free expression. You can say, nope I'm staying, as yours.

I'm not telling you to get with the prevailing orthodoxy of the country, which is what my name refers to.

Like I said, you can totally call me stupid, or my point lame or whatever - but it's not ironic.

[Wombatzu]

80. either...

your actions in asking me to think, vote, speak a certain way are ironic or the name of the organization for which you seem to think you are speaking for is ironic. one of those... i'll let you choose.

and your name is "Political Heretic" not "The Prevailing Orthodoxy of the Country Heretic" so i'm going to go ahead and say... Ironic!

[Political Heretic]

81. Of course, I didn't do any of those things.

So no irony.

My name is my name. I get to tell you what it means, not the other way around. :)

[Wombatzu]

82. that's not how language works

coherent language requires a multiplicity of communicators who share common meanings for words. so, yes, i and everyone else gets to tell you what your name means.

Ironic!

[Political Heretic]

83. That is untrue of proper names.

When I name my cat Rose, you may say "oh your cat is named after the flower" but I get to correct you and say, "no, my cat is named after the person, Rose."

Proper names are defined by the person who does the naming.

Proper names don't even need to share meaning. Something can be named "flumbodea" and the person who has done the naming gets to define to you what it means or why it was named as such. You don't get to come back and say, "no I'm sorry, you're wrong. When you named your thing flumbodea, it meant x to you." Uh, no it didn't. That's the nature of proper names - the person doing the naming determines the meaning / interpretation of the thing named.

No irony.

[Wombatzu]

85. if your cat, Rose, smelled like shit

that would be ironic.

ironic!

[Political Heretic]

86. No

If something was named "roses" after the flower, and smelled like shit, perhaps.

But there's no irony connection between something named after my friend and smelling like shit.

Also, like I said before:

Proper names don't even need to share meaning. Something can be named "flumbodea" and the person who has done the naming gets to define to you what it means or why it was named as such. You don't get to come back and say, "no I'm sorry, you're wrong. When you named your thing flumbodea, it meant x to you." Uh, no it didn't. That's the nature of proper names - the person doing the naming determines the meaning / interpretation of the thing named.

[Wombatzu]

88. there is no such thing as a private language

you are wrong.

it is ironic.

[Wombatzu]

71. and...

calling yourself "Heretic" and telling people to get in line is also ironic.

[Political Heretic]

74. Also not ironic.

Heretic didn't have anything to do with not telling people to get in line. Heretics could be particularly authoritarian in some cases. It had to do with rejecting the prevailing orthodoxing. In America, that means things like corporate capitalism, neo-liberalist international policy, neo-conservatism, etc.

I'm more than happy to suggest that people should "get in line" with those things. Not incompatible with Heretic in the least.

[Infinite Hope]

67. No. I'm an Obama supporter now. Was (and at heart, always will be) an Edwards supporter.

I can't support the same deceitful and manipulative tendencies we've lived with for 7 years. While I've usually criticized it, I may very well vote 3rd party.

[newmajority]

73. The Hillbots have ensured that I will NOT vote for their candidate.

Hillary and the DLC are repulsive enough to me. The actions of the Hillbots and the shills calling the Democratic talk radio shows for the last two weeks are simply intolerable. Now I turn on the TV and see complete lies coming from a desperate candidate.

This is Stalinist/Hitlerian/BUSH CRIME FAMILY tactics, and they have no business in the Democratic party.

And if anyone gets in my face in person at a caucus like the Mark Penn shills do here, they're really going to wish they had stayed the Hell out of my state.

I'm confident that Barack Obama will win this nomination and be the 43rd President of the United States. (That's right, the Chimp doesn't count) But in the event that he doesn't, I'll be leaving the top of the ticket blank in November. The desperate Clinton machine does not deserve my vote.

[Laelth]

75. I, for one, just don't believe those no votes.

Come November, I'd bet, 99% of posters here who are not Freepers will support the Democratic nominee.

:patriot:

-Laelth

[RandomKoolzip]

77. Of course! What kind of asshole would want President McCain?!

:scared:

[IsItJustMe]

78. Seems like there are several here that would rather have a Repub as president than a Dem. SAD

Be carefull of what you ask for, you just might get it. Like a hundred more years of war and bat shit crazy right wing Supreme Court Justices.

I hope you get what you want.

[Apollo11]

84. Until now, 48 people think Hillary is the same as McCain

If you refuse to support the Democratic ticket, it means you don't care if McCain wins.

This is a direct breach of the DU rules* - and I am reporting you guys to the moderators! :P

* Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

[Blue-Jay]

87. How many times does this question need to be asked?

Every day?