Why do people choose to become a corporate attorney?

[John Q. Citizen]

Is it to help women and children?

Is it to help working class people?

Is it to help the environment?

Is it to help themselves?


What do you think?

[kurth]

1. So they can be general counsel

reporting to the CEO.

[Big Blue Marble]

2. I for one, am glad that Obama

who could have gotten a lot better corporate job than one at the Rose Law firm in Little Rock Arkansas,

choice instead to work with the poor and disadvantaged on the streets of Chicago.

It speaks to character. Yes it does.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Obama was a constitutional lawyer, right? He taught constitutional law in a school.

[Big Blue Marble]

24. Your point is?

Teaching law is comparable to corporate law practice how?

He taught law, practiced civil rights law for poor people and worked to organize disadvantaged people
to access their rights under the laws of this land.

He was offered corporate law jobs paying over a half of million dollars a year.
He chose instead to work for little and help improve the lives of many.

[John Q. Citizen]

36. My point was to clarify. I don't consider constitutional law or public interst law

to be corporate law.

Most coporate lawyers represent corporations against litigation from other corporations, from consumers, from environmental law suits, from labor unions, at least how the term is commonly used.

For profit Corporations are their clients.

[Big Blue Marble]

41. Thank you for your clarification.

I wasn't sure that is why I asked.

[Yossariant]

37. PUHLEEZ!

Obama helped his boss at the only law firm he was ever even associted with get $1 million from a charity whose board he sat on.

That's some real civil rights lawyerin' for "poor people."

[Radical Activist]

59. He also did work as a civil rights attorney.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Bill Clinton Made $35,000.00 A Year As Governor Of Arkansas

Bill and Hill were Yale Law School graduates... I think they worked hard enough to get where they were to make more than $35 K per year... Hill was Bill's financial benefactor for most of his life...

[Big Blue Marble]

39. While he was the governor,

She was a corporate lawyer working at the Rose Law firm.

She was representing corporations and making a lot more than 35k which by the way at the time was worth
much more than it is to today.

They were not sacrificing let me assure you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. He Was Making 35K In The Late Eighties...

That wasn't chump change but as my cousin used to say about doctors not making a certain sum " if someone with a JD from Yale Law is making $35,000 a year they have to be fucked in the ear."

[Big Blue Marble]

46. It was damn good when you consider all the perks that went with it.

Living in a mansion, chauffeur driven limos, servants, you know the way the rich people live.

Whatever the compensation Bill was making as Governor, Hillary was out working hard on her law career and
making far more than Bill was. It all went into their pot.

[polpilot]

74. free Flowers??

[splat]

44. You forget Hillary worked for the Children's Defense Fund out of Yale?

[Big Blue Marble]

47. How many months was that?

I know it was for less than a year.

[onenote]

48. so what?

Geez, louise. There are silly things to argue about and this is one of them. Michelle Obama worked for three years at Sidley Austin, a very large corporate law firm. I assume she got very good training there and it was a smart move on her part. Hell, that's where she met Obama -- he was working there as a summer intern, I believe.

[Big Blue Marble]

51. It is not silly at all.

It speaks to character. And as for Michelle Obama, she is not running for president. When Bill was running for president, frankly
I didn't care one whit what law firm Hillary worked for.

Now she has made an issue of her 35 year of service. I do not think it is fair for her to claim the many years
she was in service to corporations. Do you?

[onenote]

55. I've spent 30 years at law firms and you don't know jack about my character

There are loads of progressive people -- people who, like me, support Obama, who work at law firms.
In fact, if you check, you'll see that six of the largest contributors to Obama's campaign are lawyers/employees of large corporate law firms: Sidley, Kirkland & Ellis, Jones Day, Jenner & Block, WilmerHale, Skadden Arps. Those low "character" people have donated nearly a million dollars to Obama's campaign.

So here's a suggestion: get off your holier than thou horse -- you're not helping our candidate any.

[EffieBlack]

63. Thank you

I, too, am sick of this kneejerk "all lawyers are bad" "anything remotely connected to a corporation is evil" mentality around here. The black and white view of anything outside of a small group of concerns is pretty amazing.

[Blue_In_AK]

3. It's a steady income.

Trial lawyers, particularly plaintiff lawyers, are not guaranteed a win so they can't really project their income. Criminal defense lawyers have a harder time making money unless they get paid up front, which isn't always possible since most criminals don't have much cash.

The ones that make out the best are corporate lawyers and insurance defense lawyers. And tax lawyers, of course, because there aren't a lot of them.

[Tatiana]

4. To make $$$, of course. That's this country's only measure of success, apparently. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Because they are $120,000 in debt from law school and they want to live a normal life

[Blue_In_AK]

8. Yes, that, too.

My daughter has been out of law school since 2003, has been working at a prestigious law firm in LA for the past five years making more money that I ever dreamed of in my life, and she still owes a six-figure student loan. It kind of sucks.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. What kind of law does you daughter practice?

[Blue_In_AK]

23. She's at O'Melveny & Myers

in LA and they do a lot of stuff, but her main area of interest is securities fraud. Incidentally, she was on Duke Cunningham's defense team - ironically, since she's a good little Democrat down to her core. He thought she was great, even though she had to tell him that she's not a Republican. I admire her for being able to do her job even when she was totally grossed out. :rofl:

[John Q. Citizen]

33. So she practices criminal law, I assume, since he was up on criminal charges.

[Blue_In_AK]

42. In that particular case,

although most of what she does is civil. Sometimes she's on the side of the good guys and sometimes the bad guys. The only time she absolutely refused to work on a case was the pedophile priests. She just couldn't go there.

Actually, she's just taken a new job which she'll start in a couple of weeks. It's much closer to where she lives in Santa Monica, and she won't have to work 16 hours a day, seven days a week, which she's really looking forward to since she's a newlywed. Being an associate attorney in a big law firm is not an easy job.

[MadHound]

57. Coming out of law school in the early seventies, I doubt it

First of all this was back when financial aid was plentiful and cheap. Second they both picked up some scholarships along the way. Third, this was before the crushing inflation that we see in colleges today had taken hold.

My guess is that they maybe, maybe walked out with $20,000 owed between them, at most. It also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't owe a thing either.

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. The OP didn't specify anybody

Every corporate lawyer I met when I worked at one of the big firms really, really wanted to be an environmental activist or a human rights attorney, if only those loans would go away....

[MadHound]

62. The implication was certainly about the Clintons

Which is further reinforced by the responses here. I was simply responding in kind:shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

65. The OP didn't specify anybody

And I was responding to the OP.

[MadHound]

67. How do you survive without that inference meter? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

73. Oh, the inference was clear enough

But the question remains legitimate in general terms. Too many people here assume that "corporate people" are just greedy assholes with no ethics. It's not the case. Most people just want to live their lives.

I'm sorry that I won't play your stupid little game with you, but the pouting about it is really a bit much.

[MadHound]

75. But I wasn't talking about "corporate people", I was talking about the Clintons

But hey, whatever.

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. And I wasn't

I know who you were talking about. I was just talking about something else.

[speedoo]

6. So they can lie and call it serving some greater good?

I think I know of one that's doing that right now.

[Lisa0825]

17. I love your Molly sig

:loveya:

[Boojatta]

7. Let's go back a step. Why do people choose to apply for any jobs

at corporations? Why do people choose to buy products made by corporations?

If a corporation exists, then isn't it going to have occasion to pursue some goals using the courts or to try to defend its short, medium, or long-term interests in court when sued by others?

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Some people's drive is for money and some people's drive is for service.

Some people go into teaching, and the money isn't as important as the satisfaction of what they do.

Some people take the first thing that comes along. There a whole lot of different motivating factors for a whole lot of different people.

That's the point of my OP

[TexasObserver]

9. Money, money, money! Money!

It's all about the downtown office, the nice offices, and the cash. It's about prestige and private schools. It's about kissing ass, and having one's ass kissed.

[Kber]

10. So they can earn a good living without working 80 hours a week

Not every career has to be a calling. Some people are just trying to pay the mortgage and student loans.

[LostinVA]

69. The attorneys I know work MORE than hours a week

At least, they did for the first 5+ years, then ratcheted down to 60 hours or so. They work their asses off.

[Kber]

87. Agreed

It's even worse in law firms than it is in corporateions - that's all I meant.

Lawyering is a tough way to make a living for most folks.

KB

[Dogmudgeon]

12. Yet Ira Einhorn was a professional activist and attorney

--p!

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Ira Einhorn practiced corporate law? Is that what you are saying?

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Didn't he kill his girlfriend and flee the country?

Am I thinking of the right guy?

[Straight Shooter]

38. If it's the Earth Day founder, I believe you are correct.

I think they found her body in a trunk ....?

[Blue_In_AK]

43. That's the one.

What a shocking case that was! You just never know about people.

[Windy]

13. MONEY.... Corporate law means the highest salaries.

that is the reason. there is no philanthropy or sense of civic duty involved.

[EffieBlack]

64. You know this how?

[LostinVA]

70. Of course there is

Most corporate law firms use their resources to do alot of pro bono work.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. My dad was one.

We weren't rich, just middle class. And I never thought of my dad as evil.

[Blue_In_AK]

16. They're not evil.

Most of them are just trying to make a living and support their families. Don't let these people intimidate you.

[sandnsea]

22. Describe "middle class"

And I'm sure your dad wasn't evil. I worked for attorneys who handled the business of small town corporations, they certainly weren't evil and neither was I. But they sure weren't "middle class" either.

[goodgd_yall]

28. If it's middle class, it's middle class.

Why can't you accept that?

[sandnsea]

31. Why can't upper income professionals

who are in the top 1% of global earners, accept that they're truly rich.

[Laelth]

78. Good question and spot on!

"Cuz if they did that," my wife says, "they'd have to admit that they're screwing the rest of us."

They don't want to take any responsibility for the misery in which many less-fortunate Americans live. The "middle-class" designation allows them to believe that most people are (on average) as fortunate as they are. It's an insidious self-delusion.

-Laelth

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Totally middle class.

Until the year I graduated from college my family lived in a house with a one-car garage, which was fine because we had only one car. My brothers had to share a single bedroom, and the house had just one bathroom. We didn't have TV until I was five. My siblings and I all went to public schools and we didn't get cars as graduation presents. Our vacations usually consisted of piling into the station wagon and driving somewhere, like a park to go camping. We kids mowed the lawn with a reel mower, not a power mower. We didn't live in poverty by any means but it was a very ordinary, non-rich, Leave-It-To-Beaver life.

[sandnsea]

35. No TV until you were five?

Well that's a whole other generation when incomes were more evenly distributed. Not so much in the last 20 years.

[juajen]

15. I know a lot about corporate lawyers. A lot are wonderful people.

Most incorporate businesses, some small, some appendages of large corporations. Corporate lawyers hire a lot of women with children and also incorporate businesses that employ women with children. Sometimes the businesses they incorporate help the environment and, of course, they make a salary, some large, some small, as in any business. You are using a broad brush, and your attempt to paint HRC with that brush is wrong in so many ways that it's laughable.

[John Q. Citizen]

52. Why won't Hill let Dems see her tax returns? I mean before the convention?

Is there a reason for that, or is she like bush was with his military records, and feels it's nobody's business except her own?

Is that right? Or do you feel she should make her returns available like Obama has?

Is that a laughable request to ask Hill to do, but not a laughable request for bush to do?

Seriously. What's with that?

I often wonder why Hill didn't go into family law, or labor law, or even advocacy law. Instead she was doing land speculation deals for fat cats. I'm sure it may have paid the bills better than those other fields, and it eventually put her into the elite class, but I still wonder about that.

[LostinVA]

71. Bingo

[antigop]

19. So, what, exactly, did sHillary DO at the Rose Law Firm?

These are some of the areas of expertise that the firm advertises on its website:

http://www.roselawfirm.com/practice/management.asp

We also advise clients on union avoidance, organizing campaigns and union representation elections. Our specific areas of expertise include:

* Union organization, collective bargaining, arbitrations and NLRB charges
* Employment discrimination and fair employment litigation
* OSHA
* Employment contracts, trade secrets and covenants not to compete
* Affirmative action
* Wage and hour issues
* Personnel handbooks
* Supervisory training
* Compliance reviews and training
* Mediations
* Civil rights
* EEOC
* Harassment/retaliation
* Whistle-blowing

What type of work did she do at the Rose Law Firm?

[goodgd_yall]

20. To pay off their law school loans, of course!

[Straight Shooter]

25. What kind of corporate attorney?

Research? Trial? Product investigation? General counsel?

Why does someone become a prosecutor? Because they have a vicious streak, or is it because they hate "bad guys"?

Why does someone become a defense attorney? Because they seek justice for the downtrodden, or because they're good at manipulating the emotions of juries?

I've known hundreds of attorneys in my life. You will never know why someone chooses to be a corporate attorney. Hell, maybe their daddy or mommy is a corporate attorney and it looked okay as a profession, or maybe Uncle Ray owns the company. Maybe they just have a plodding way of working and enjoy methodical work.

People gravitate to their careers due to innate talents and circumstances of life.

[bpeale]

26. how about someone who passes themself off as a college professor

instead of THE GUEST LECTURER they really were? the two are hardly the same and i believe this is called an intentional lie.

[onenote]

30. if you are defining a "corporate" lawyer as a lawyer in a law firm that represents corporations

(as opposed to an 'in-house' corporate lawyer), I can tell you why I chose that course: because it gave me an opportunity to represent interesting clients and work on interesting issues -- my clients are media and new technology companies that face legislative and regulatory issues that I think are interesting, including intellectual property issues and free speech issues. Working for a firm with "corporate" clients also has allowed me to do pro bono work over the years for such organizations as Gun Control Inc, (later renamed for Jim Brady) and the ACLU.

Has it paid me well? Yes, but maybe not as well as you might imagine. But well enough to pursue my interests and to support Democratic candidates financially.


Want me to apologize? Not gonna.

[Wcross]

34. Steady paycheck.

Why do people decide to become septic system cleaners? Some people will take a job that needs to be done regardless of what it entails. You get hungry enough the job doesn't seem so bad.

[Carolina]

49. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

especially after college and law school debt

[magatte]

50. 35 years working to defend the little people.

Indeed. And you want to still project some honesty after these kind of claims.
Constantly repeated, I may add.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

53. I don't support Hillary Clinton but I think this is a bum rap

I see nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton working for a law firm that had corporate clients. She probably worked long, long hours at first until she made partner. She was handling mostly patent infringement matters and intellectual property. Those are not evil pursuits. The protection of ideas and technology is very important to the advancement of our civilization. And during the time she worked at the Rose Law Firm she also continued doing pro bono work on children's rights issues and she has the published papers in law journals to prove it.

Hillary Clinton is no saint and roses don't sprout wherever her feet hit the ground, despite the attitude of a few of the lunatics at this website who seem to think otherwise. But I see nothing wrong about her work as a lawyer. Most lawyers behave in an ethical manner and are very dedicated to maintaining the honor and integrity of the profession.

I would rather focus on Hillary Clinton's voting record and on her speeches and position statements available at her Senatorial website, many of which I have read and some of which frankly trouble me a great deal.

[onenote]

77. It's more than a bum rap. Its stupid. Obama has received nearly a $1 million from lawyers

at six big "corporate" law firms (and probably lots more than that from lawyers at smaller corporate firms or in-house corporate lawyers.

I doubt Obama thinks there is anything wrong with being a corporate lawyer and suggestions by some of his supporters to the contrary are just stupid.

A "corporate" lawyer who plans to vote for Obama on Tuesday.

[leftofthedial]

54. $$$$$$$$

and then there is one more reason, which is $$$$$$$$

[demokatgurrl]

56. Not all corporate attorneys become "general counsel"-

I mean,most corporations have one.
Most people become corporate attorneys because they have a law degree and need a job.

[Radical Activist]

58. Why do people choose that after turning down a job offer from Saul Alinsky

to be a community organizer? I think Obama and Clinton knew who they were at a young age and their different life paths tell us a lot about them both.

[Annces]

60. Talent, opportunity and temperament

Why does anybody choose anything. It is not just what you think you should do, but what you would love to do and feel great doing. I have a sister that tried to be a theater person, but did not really like it. She is in law now and it fits her perfectly.

[mondo joe]

66. To use their skills to make a living and support their family mostly.

[LostinVA]

68. Quite a few DUers are corporate attorneys or work in corporate law firms

They are good progressives.

Many start doing it because the pay is great and they have huge loans to pay off. They have a family to support. They like the work. And, after a few years, they can do alot of pro bono work. Lots of reasons, as many reasons why someone becomes anything.

There's nothing wrong with being a corporate lawyer. I know some of the DUers who are corporate attorneys, an they are great, intelligent, giving people. Trying to smear a whole profession because of HRC leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[MaineDem]

72. Because they're recruited?

Why would any of your scenarios play out? It depends on the corporation one is working for.

[Laelth]

76. Debt bondage?

Prestige? Beats me. :shrug:

I couldn't do it. I am a Plaintiff's attorney, and I fight these miserable people on a regular basis. They may have more money, but I wouldn't trade places with them.

-Laelth

[TexasObserver]

80. Trial lawyers = Democratic causes, ideals

Corporate lawyers = Republican causes and ideals

Those who practice know this, don't they? It's a divide that goes far beyond your clients and to the core of who you are.

[onenote]

81. First of all, there are plenty of trial lawyers that represent corporations.

Second, Obama has received nearly a million dollars in contributions from lawyers at just six big corporate firms and I'm willing to go out on a limb and say he almost certainly has gotten several times that amount from other "corporate" lawyers, both at firms and in-house.

Equating representing corporations with republican causes and ideals is bizarre and offensive. I represent "corporations" and have no reason to apologize for it. Over thirty years I've worked on a number of cases where I was defending a reporter's privilege and other free speech issues, where I've represented a new technology company that was fighting to expand its customers "fair use" access to copyrighted material, etc.

Go peddle your crap elsewhere.

[LanternWaste]

82. I suppose we could also ask why people choose to become typesetters

I suppose we could also ask why people choose to become typesetters. Or choose to become cops. Or choose to become administrative assistants. As they all seem to have the precise same relevance.

However, I have little doubt you yourself have chosen your specific profession to help women, children, the working class, and the environment to the exclusion of all else...

[Marie26]

83. They have student loan debts

that are so huge, they can't do anything else. The typical law school student now graduates w/over $100,000 dollars of student loans. At least $30,000 of that are private loans w/interest rates of up to 10% or more. There are many lawyers who wanted to do public interest law, & ended up in corporate law cause it was the only way to pay the bills.

[TriMetFan]

84. Obama and Resco = Slumlord.

Yep that really was helping out the poor, when you friend is F-ing your people in your district. oh yea Obama didn't know and that is his excuse for everything.

[workinclasszero]

85. Definitely to help themselves

Sucking the bones of poor people dry for the man really pays off in the bank account.

Course you sell your soul in the process but some people don't care about that.

Its like sitting on the board of Walmart while they pay slave wages and zero benefits, then later you claim you care about working people.:rofl:

[onenote]

86. Obama better give back that couple of million he's taken from "bone suckers" then, right?

Check a list of who has contributed to Obama -- listed among the top 20 givers are six major corporate law firms whose attorneys and employees have donated nearly a million dollars to Obama's campaign. I'm willing to bet that he's got several more million from "corporate" attorneys at other firms and in-house counsel offices.

I guess you think all of that money is dirty and that Obama should give it back?