Talk to me about Ohio...why do you think Clinton ahead there?

[calteacherguy]

Proximity to NY, advertising, less time spent there by the candidates, name recognition, demographics?

Inquiring minds neeed to know. I'd like to hear from everybody regardless of who you support.

[scheming daemons]

1. Large union state ("old" Democrats)... name recognition....

...it will change as March 4th gets closer.

[jlake]

2. Proximity to NY?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[calteacherguy]

5. Well, it is closer than some places on the map.

O.K., maybe that was a stretch. :P

[moosen]

27. heh, it's well outside NY's sphere of influence

[MonkeyFunk]

12. well

now we now he doesn't teach math OR geography.

[calteacherguy]

15. I'm on the west coast.

Everything is relative. :P

[jackson_dem]

37. Illinois isn't too far from Ohio, another Midwestern state

[Lucinda]

3. Because they have tv's and watch the candidates?

[billbuckhead]

4. Archie and Edith Bunkers

[smalll]

29. Meaning, not Latte Liberals.

It's not Connecticut, that's for sure. By the way, your avatar - some over-designed monitor from the 23rd century that would probably cost the average American a few good full months of salary - so apt!

[JVS]

36. Nixon fans?

[Alhena]

6. Not sure, but her lead is massive ...

Obama's goal there and in Pennsylvania needs to be to cut his margin of defeat. He's not going to win either.

Unlike Texas, which awards 1/3 of its delegates at a caucus that favors Obama supporters, Ohio and Pennsylvania are both 100% primaries.

[calteacherguy]

8. Yes, her lead is massive.

However I don't accept your assumption that it is impossible to win there.

Yes, at least cutting the his margin of defeat, as you say, will be critical.

[sandnsea]

7. She's been running for a while

She's been laying the ground work for this run for 2 years, or more. Been working Ohio heavy for at least a year. Stephanie Tubbs Jones has endorsed her. People just remember the good times of the Clinton economy and think they have a guarantee with Hillary. Nobody has told them that their jobs went to business owners who are friends of the Clintons.

[calteacherguy]

9. What has Barack been doing in Ohio so far? Anything? nt

[MadBadger]

10. He started his campaign there last week.

[calteacherguy]

11. Last week. Anything at all before that? nt

[sandnsea]

22. Virginia is on Tuesday

I think we all need to get calling, all weekend.

[Armstead]

13. You just stated something perfectly

"Nobody has told them that their jobs went to business owners who are friends of the Clintons."

That in a nutshell is the story of this election.

Gosh I miss John Edwards.

[sandnsea]

17. Obama did it last summer

He got accused of being racist because some nitwit staffer added some Punjab sarcasm. I had people on this board screaming "racist" at me every time I tried to explain who these crooks were that were connected to Hillary. And they weren't all Hillary supporters either. Some folks used any opportunity to bash Obama and still haven't let go of their rhetoric.

The good news is that TNR just released a list, a big list, a honkin' massive big list. :)

[Bread and Circus]

21. I think you are right. A lot of it is just ignorance. Ohio Dems aren't

stupid or dumb, they are just ignorant of the fact of how DLC politicians have encouraged policies in the last 2 decades that have put a lot of them out of a job.

Like you say though, I think a lot of people think we can just "recreate the 90's" but what they don't realize is that we weren't in quagmire war and we aren't going to be able to rely on the emergence of the internet and the tech boom.

Also, Clintonomics have already played themselves out >>> low interest rates (read: easy credit) and outsourcing jobs has been done. The first one got families into debt and the second one ultimately led alot to bankruptcy.

The other thing is people forget we may be at peak oil production and with an emerging economic giant like China is doing it's share to gobble up the gas.

Don't forget you've got Russia to consider. Putin is a dick, but he's a smart mofo. He's like Bush with brains. They've got a lot of resources and are a force to contend with. In the 90's this was not the case.

It is a different world, going back to the 90's is naive.

[jackson_dem]

38. So has Obama. He began running in January 2005

[DJ13]

14. Clinton is only ahead at the moment due to name recognition

If Obama begins campaigning there heavily earlier than his usual 1 to 2 weeks before a primary he stands a good chance of erasing the deficeit and winning.

[557188]

16. I'll tell you why

Ohio's economy is awful at the moment. The Republicans basically destroyed the entire state and the Democrats are trying to clean up. The last time this state was doing good was in the 90s under the Clinton years. We still remember.

Ohioans like fighters and people willing to get dirty to accomplish their goals. Hackett almost won a Republican district by fighting and being aggressive. Ohioans LIKE that. Empty words such as "Hope" and "Change" doesn't mean anything to us. We don't don't care about such nonsense.

Ohio's blue parts are very working class. Pro Union type of people.

Also, lets face facts, Ohioans would rather be like New York and California than go with the guy Utah and Alabama picks.

[tabatha]

20. That is like saying women should vote for Hillary.

I would think it would be about issues.

[peace13]

23. I'm in Ohio and I equate Hillary with WalMart

and that is not a good thing for any state. Just saying from my point of view. Peace, Kim

[smalll]

31. Yet more confirmation: the poor vote for Hillary, the rich vote for Obama.

As you put it, "Ohio's economy is awful at the moment ... Ohio's blue parts are very working class. Pro Union type of people."

[Greyskye]

45. Confirmation in your smalll mind perhaps

Yet when faced with the numbers, the facts, that show THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE, you are strangely silent: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4443352&mesg_id=4447455

Funny how you never respond when proved wrong. Yet still spout the same unsubstantiated crap elsewhere. Have you no shame? :shrug:

[Berry Cool]

39. Speak for yourself.

At least when you say "Hope" and "Change" are empty words to Ohioans and "We don't care about such nonsense."

[HughBeaumont]

40. And pro-free-trade, pro-job-offshoring, wife-of-NAFTA-signer is going to cure that HOW?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

In the 90s, wasn't the country's largest employer a TEMP company? Has anyone watched The Big One? After Bill signed 41's NAFTA, plants here started either closing and moving to cheaper pastures or laying off workers by the thousands. Witness my former ghost town of a city, Vermilion Oh. Ford throughout the late 90s started laying off workers there, eventually shutting their doors completely and leaving that town a boarded-up mess. Most secondary businesses (bars, restaurants, etc) closed around it. The place looks like a giant flea market now. At least it's not as bad as Lorain, Youngstown or Cleveland. Southern and Western Ohio - same thing. Manufacturing and Industry have been on a steep slide since 1997, and anyone with a brain stem would have to concede that bad trade agreements and Republican-ruthless economic practices had a great deal to do with that slide.

When is ANYONE going to start standing up for the workers? Apparently NO one, since Dem voters weren't able to trust the one guy who brought up these issues. No, we trust the one who wants to increase visas and does business with Indian outsourcing conglomerates. Real swift. :eyes:

[peace13]

18. I've been here the whole time and yet to get a call.

They have said Ohio will be for Hill for at least a year. If she has connections with the machine maker she may well be a shoe in. Peace, Kim

[TwilightGardener]

19. Gov. Strickland, and demographics--lots of older people, lots of traditional

union/blue collar lunch-box Dems, lots of people who like 70's classic rock and mullets. That last part is only a half-joke. I'm from Western PA, I can say that folks in Western PA do not like change. They like comfort and tradition and familiarity. Otherwise they would have moved to a hipper, warmer, sunnier part of the country instead of staying in the rust belt. Clinton is a familiar brand name and brings some nostalgia--total Clinton country for her in Ohio and PA. That's just my take on things.

[sandnsea]

24. Any way to break it?

Is it even worth the time? Or if we were going to organize phone calling, would PA & TX be better choices?

As I said above, I think we've got to all pitch in and help with Virginia too.

[TwilightGardener]

25. If I were Obama, honestly, I would work on lowering expectations there,

work on cutting into her lead, and hope for the best--I don't know enough about his ground organization and media buys, etc, and how the delegates shake out--winner take all vs. proportional. Those are factors too. I do know that rural PA, once you get away from Philly and Pgh, is a little bit...um...well...they like to vote for folks that look like themselves, if you know what I mean, and I think you do...that's been my experience anyway. Would probably turn out like Tennessee and Oklahoma, if you recall Obama's results there.

[sandnsea]

28. It's so weird

Because out here, those same types of people are so totally anti-nanny state Clinton style politics that they readily accept Obama as someone who can bridge the gaps and heal the divides. If eastern rural people had the attitude of western US rural people, he'd take everything east of the Mississippi. Just weird.

[OzarkDem]

44. Eastern rural people are more pragmatic

While many of them are right wing, they tend not to be the irrational types who hate government, but want its money, etc. They don't see government as the enemy.

[peace13]

30. People in Ohio are hungry for a leader.

He should come out strong and forget about the race thing. We have had years of Rthuglican rule and people are sick of it. Personally I don't see any of the Hillary offense that she is supposed to have here. Maybe it is here but hey, I don't know one person who thinks that she is the answer and I am talking R's and D's. Peace, Kim

[JeanGrey]

43. I grew up in Ohio and I will outrate say it: It is a racist state.

I live in Georgia now and it is way less racist than Ohio. Obama doesn't have a chance there.

[OzarkDem]

42. Clinton has a lot of loyalty in PA, too

Bill Clinton focused a lot of effort on helping the Great Lakes/Rust Belt states when he was in office. That loyalty will be remembered and returned.

[LiberalHeart]

26. High IQs

[polticalpout]

34. WTF, why the attack on fellow Dems?

Higher IQ's = Hillary votes Lower = Obama??? You fight like a freeper with attacks like these.

Wait until you see the support University students give Obama in Ohio (home of the nations largest university).

[polticalpout]

32. No ad's have hit the state yet...

We're a month out, the closer we get the more tight the race will get. Everyone 30 and younger I've met with overwhelmingly is for Obama and excited about him. (Columbus)

[FrenchieCat]

33. She was in the White House for 8 years. A know quantity....even if the quantity

is not really totally wanted.

They don't know Obama, they only know of him.

[CitizenLeft]

35. because he hasn't set foot here yet

Not sure where the "older" stuff comes from. We're not any older here than anywhere else. This state has a lot of colleges - OU, Ohio State, Miami U, Dayton, Cinncy, etc. That famous long line where people waited for 13 hours to vote that made the news over and over again on election night in 2004? That happened in a college town, and those were students who refused to get out of line. Ohio is ripe for him to campaign here.

[OzarkDem]

41. Bill Clinton was very popular here

Ohio was always one of his favorite places to campaign. He enjoyed a lot of support, even early in his first race, and it was broad based - including large numbers of independents. I was always amazed at how many votes he gathered in conservative, upper middle class suburbs, not just inner city and blue collar areas.

Clinton also delivered a lot for Ohio, particularly for economic and urban development. He also supported the Ohio's Congressional Caucus and other elected Dems, working with them to do as much as he could to help improve the state. I think a lot of Ohioans would like to see that happen again.

On edit: One of the criticisms I've never agreed with about Clinton was about his anti-poverty programs. He spent a lot of time and money in those areas with block grants for urban areas, jobs initiatives, inner city education programs, new housing, recreation centers, shopping centers, drug programs, money for police departments, health programs, etc. Ohio urban communities got a lot of funding during the Clinton years in all those areas. Downtown Cleveland and other urban areas in Ohio changed dramatically.