Hillary's Pro Torture Position

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

Hillary Clinton has lately been loudly proclaiming her fealty to the Democratic Party's best traditions on human rights.

However, just two years ago, Hillary--the purported "expert" on international relations--said there should be "lawful authority" for torture in some cases.

See, www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0907/Hillary_and_torture_audio_version.html

Her stand on one of the transcendent moral issues of our day was opposite to that of every other major Democratic presidential candidate in 2007-2008, and the heat she took for it caused her to make one of her famous "flip flops."

So much for her being "ready to go on Day 1."

More like "wrong from day 1".

[HughMoran]

1. So, do you think Hillary supports torture?

?

[DJ13]

2. "So, do you think Hillary supports torture?"

Only with some of their posts here.

[tyne]

8. According to her

in some instances...when you don't have time to use other means...ya.

[rodeodance]

44. you best read downstream--your best argument now is she changed her mind.

[Skidmore]

56. For some of the greatest issues of our time, Hillary has tended to

be for them before she was against them.

This is one of those instances that required moral clarity at the beginning, like the IWR. Some of our legislators were able to make a clear choice based on sound human and civil rights reasons. Ms. Clinton couldn't.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Yeah, right

It's actually from the NY Daily News. And the link is gone.

Sounds like another case of a selectively-edited quote with curiously poor support.

Team Obama: They'll say and do anything to win.

--p!

[Capn Sunshine]

4. Funny the link worked fine for me

what a coinkydink.
That's right, team Obama will say anything to win, provided it's true.

[tyne]

6. McCain

would have a field day with that audio.

[backscatter712]

36. Worked for me too.

Clinton made her position clear - she said she'd support torture under the ticking time bomb scenario out of an episode of 24.

My response:

WRONG ANSWER!!!

WTF is the matter with you, Hillary?

[elixir]

49. Presented with the same scenario, what would you do?

[backscatter712]

53. Bring in a professional interrogator instead of Jack Bauer...

I'm assuming you're talking about the ticking time bomb scenario.

Torture DOES NOT WORK. Not at gathering information, anyways. Gathering confessions, and getting scare-mongering red meat to throw at politicians, better. But torture is awful at intelligence-gathering. The suspect is as likely as not to lie just to make the pain stop, and even if he didn't, you have no real way of knowing if he's lying or not.

Truthfully, it's damned difficult to get reliable information if you're rushed, but the best chance is to use professional interrogation techniques.

They'll do anything from guilt-tripping the perp to buttering him up and stroking his ego to commiserating with him, and focus eventually on developing a rapport that can be used to get real, reliable information.

WWII interrogators would do things from buying German POWs steak dinners to playing games of chess with them to build rapport with them, and they were proud of how they were able to gather intelligence to help us win the war without losing their souls.

Besides, the ticking time bomb scenario is completely contrived. It's just not going to happen in the real world.

[elixir]

48. Presented with the same scenario, what would you do?

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Here you go. Google is your friend (or maybe google is pro-Obama)

HILLARY'S TORTURE EXCEPTION
October 21, 2006 -- If an underling of Osama bin Laden were captured and American intelligence had reason to suspect he possessed intimate knowledge of a plot to unleash nerve gas over New York City in just a few short hours, who would you want prying the relevant details from the terrorist?

A CIA bureaucrat commanded not to offend detainees' sensitivities? Or someone like Jack Bauer of "24," whose chief concern is the lives of more than 8 million innocent people?

That's the debate at the center of a spat between Sens. John McCain and Hillary Clinton.

The dustup began when Clinton said recently that she felt torture ought to be legal if the suspect had knowledge of "an imminent threat to millions of Americans."

more...http://www.nypost.com/seven/10212006/postopinion/editorials/hillarys_torture_exception_editorials_.htm

[Dogmudgeon]

19. But the New York Post is nobody's friend (maybe the RW's)

There is no direct quote. It has been "edited" even more than the previous second-hand quote. Yet another attempt to smear Hillary.

Sorry, guys, you're seeing what you want to see and the RW press is more than happy to feed you the illusions.

--p!

[JackORoses]

5. I'm hoping in the coming debates she is asked straight up about Waterboarding

[SeattleGirl]

7. Both Clinton and Obama should be asked about waterboarding.

They need to state straight out where they stand.

[awaysidetraveler]

29. Obama's been clearly against torture. "That's not what this country is about," he's said.

This is creepy. I had no idea HRC agreed with this, and I'm disgusted.

http://www.archive.org/download/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture_64kb.m3u

[rodeodance]

45. "As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded,

"As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded,




http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/6050.html

"As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded, seconding the clear positions of Senators Barack Obama (Ill.)and Joe Biden (Del.).

[awaysidetraveler]

52. Yet she advocated torture in the radio clip. Do you admit that much?

Or are you capable of admitting that the recording is her voice?

[papau]

10. Later politico.com says Hillary says no to any torture - but Obama folks chose to ignore

www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/6050.html

[tyne]

11. I don't get

your point.

Obama should ask her about this in the next debate. She clearly flipped her position. McCain surely knows about this.

[papau]

13. she supported her husband - and then decided Bill was wrong - Hillary is to the left of Bill

[berni_mccoy]

14. Um. Bullshit. From the article: October 2006 Hillary supports Torture. Sep 2007, She doesn't

She only CHANGED Positions when Biden and Obama defeated her in a debate with the point. She had to backpedal.

[papau]

26. "learning from mistakes" -has Obama learned to push the right voting button so as to not vote for RW

legislation?

granted Obama has said that he only pushed the "wrong button 3 times" as a state legislator

[awaysidetraveler]

32. Are you really defending HRC's advocacy of torture?

I mean if you're not getting the link, then that's fine.

http://www.archive.org/download/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture_64kb.m3u

That's HRC, and she's saying that in some instances torture is okay.

I've never said that, and I'm surprised that you think it's okay.

It's not okay.

I kind of thought that was what made democrats different than fascists: we don't think torture is okay ever.

[rodeodance]

39. "ticking bomb scenario"

[awaysidetraveler]

51. So you're really defending a "ticking bomb scenario" advocacy of torture?

Do you have any proof that torture does any good?

[rodeodance]

40. Obama, 1st was no to war, then didn't know how he would vote, then funded the war--positions

do change in the real world

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. Two years ago she was a Senator, not a First Lady

Bill Clinton's opinion was of no consequence as he was out of office. Do you mean she had no mind of her own as a United States Senator?

[elixir]

46. Presented with the same scenario, what would you do?

[berni_mccoy]

12. Just goes to show that Clinton will say anything to get elected. Whether she believes it or not.

[dailykoff]

27. She'll also enable anything

and then help cover up anything her CIA-PNAC paymasters would rather she didn't discuss, for example US-led genocide around the glove and the false-flag terror attacks that promote it.

[rodeodance]

43. Obama enables anything--He funded the war -he enabled the war--I can broadbrush also!!

[elixir]

50. Presented with the same scenario, what would you do?

[awaysidetraveler]

30. Papau! How's flip-flopping on torture okay?

Why would it be alright to elect a president who didn't immediately know that torture was not okay?

I mean, have you ever doubted that torture is not okay?

Why wouldn't you demand the same from your president?

[Orsino]

35. Read it once more, please.

"As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded, seconding the clear positions of Senators Barack Obama (Ill.)and Joe Biden (Del.).

She very carefully didn't say no to any torture. Her statement amounts to little more than saying, "Don't get caught putting it in writing," and leaves the door open for the so-called "narrow exceptions" she hypothesized. It is not difficult to say, "No. Never. It is wrong, and we must never torture," and in this case she failed that test. Her waffling here smells like Mukasey's.

I don't believe that she actually wants anyone tortured, but let's not pretend that it's not gonna happen under her Administration. I think that she's so afraid of a mis-step that she's aiming for a "sensible" position that can't as easily be ridiculed as soft on terror. She's aware that tens of millions of Americans like the idea of torturing bad guys, and will not risk losing over a principled stance.

I'd like to believe that once she took office, she'd quietly send word down the chain to stop any form of torture. But she isn't going to promise us that now, unless perhaps Obama ups the ante with a similar stance.

[backscatter712]

37. That's because flip-flopping degrades credibility. n/t

[rodeodance]

41. 1st O, was against the war, Then he didn't how how he would vote, then he funded the

war, now he is against the war

[rodeodance]

38. oh yes---This whole thread is talke of the "24" comment by bill saying he liked

the show.

[cooolandrew]

15. She was also very unforgiving to John Lyndh who was tortured. Who was just misguided in the wrong,

place at the wrong time. Only a young lad teenage really..

[Whisp]

18. omg. I am sorry I forgot that poor lad for political pull.

he could be my son, or yours.
he was someone's.
i want to puke.

[dkf]

17. McCain will come out looking like a hero on this one.

Saw MSNBC's bio on his life. That video of him in the stretcher sending a message to his wife was heartbreaking. Damn.

Hillary backtracked on torture. Face it. She was for it before she was against it.

[dailykoff]

20. Yeah, I remember when she was flaunting that one.

Tough as nails Hilly, everything on the table, and the trolls were high-fiving her. Whoops.

[Perry Logan]

21. If one manure-filled accusation against Hillary doesn't work, plop down another.

[jakem]

23. she should stop having manure filled policies then.

[pathansen]

22. I think the media and others have been torturing her

See "The Lynching of Hillary Clinton" post.

[mmonk]

24. Here is her statement concerning torture to

the American Freedom Campaign of which I belong. If she wins, she must be held to it with no parsing and without "it depends on what the meaning of is is".

http://afagenda.nonprofitsoapbox.com/storage/afagenda/documents/Clinton%20response.pdf

[jaybeat]

33. So what are we comparing here?

A direct statement from her campaign against a NY Roast article without any direct quotes in context?

Show me a direct quote where she says torture is ever OK, or else stop jumping on the right-wing smear wagon and STFU.

[rodeodance]

42. "As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded,

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/6050.html

"As a matter of policy it cannot be American policy, period," Clinton responded, seconding the clear positions of Senators Barack Obama (Ill.)and Joe Biden (Del.).

[tishaLA]

25. very sad.

but it's par for the course.

[dailykoff]

28. "It's the torture stupid"

Carville if you're lurking it's all yours.

[awaysidetraveler]

31. This is sickening to hear. I had no idea she'd ever advocated torture, but here it is.

I fully expected to have to upbraid you for spreading lies, but that's Hillary all right.

Here's a clearer link.

http://www.archive.org/download/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture/HillaryOnTickingBombTorture_64kb.m3u

[TexasObserver]

34. Hillary's Pro Torture Position: if it gets her delegates, she likes it.

Hillary does not care about human rights issues.

[dailykoff]

55. Right. Too bad the wind is blowing in another direction.

Sorry Hilly.

[elixir]

47. Presented with the same scenario, what would you do?

[backscatter712]

54. You're failing my Turing test.

You've posted multiple identical posts in this thread.

[Binka]

57. The Poster In Question Has A Problem

Too much coffee and dough-nuts I think. Oh and they love TORTURE TORTURE TORTURE. Hillary is so sweet. More coffee. And dough-nuts.