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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:50 AM
Original message
If you can handle an Opposition Article -- Peggy Noonan: "Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120241915915951669.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

DECLARATIONS



Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?
By PEGGY NOONAN
February 8, 2008

If Hillary Clinton loses, does she know how to lose? What will that be, if she loses? Will she just say, "I concede" and go on vacation at a friend's house on an island, and then go back to the Senate and wait?

Is it possible she could be so normal? Politicians lose battles, it's part of what they do, win and lose. But she does not know how to lose. Can she lose with grace? But she does grace the way George W. Bush does nuance.

She often talks about how tough she is. She has fought "the Republican attack machine" that has tried to "stop" her, "end" her, and she knows "how to fight them." She is preoccupied to an unusual degree with toughness. A man so preoccupied would seem weak. But a woman obsessed with how tough she is just may be lethal.

Does her sense of toughness mean that every battle in which she engages must be fought tooth and claw, door to door? Can she recognize the line between burly combat and destructive, never-say-die warfare? I wonder if she is thinking: What will it mean if I win ugly? What if I lose ugly? What will be the implications for my future, the party's future? What will black America, having seen what we did in South Carolina, think forever of me and the party if I do low things to stop this guy on the way to victory? Can I stop, see the lay of the land, imitate grace, withdraw, wait, come back with a roar down the road? Life is long. I am not old. Or is that a reverie she could never have? What does it mean if she could never have it?

We know she is smart. Is she wise? If it comes to it, down the road, can she give a nice speech, thank her supporters, wish Barack Obama well, and vow to campaign for him?

It either gets very ugly now, or we will see unanticipated--and I suspect professionally saving--grace.

I ruminate in this way because something is happening. Mrs. Clinton is losing this thing. It's not one big primary, it's a rolling loss, a daily one, an inch-by-inch deflation. The trends and indices are not in her favor. She is having trouble raising big money, she's funding her campaign with her own wealth, her moral standing within her own party and among her own followers has been dragged down, and the legacy of Clintonism tarnished by what Bill Clinton did in South Carolina. Unfavorable primaries lie ahead. She doesn't have the excitement, the great whoosh of feeling that accompanies a winning campaign. The guy from Chicago who was unknown a year ago continues to gain purchase, to move forward. For a soft little innocent, he's played a tough and knowing inside/outside game.

The day she admitted she'd written herself a check for $5 million, Obama's people crowed they'd just raised $3 million. But then his staff is happy. They're all getting paid.

Political professionals are leery of saying, publicly, that she is losing, because they said it before New Hampshire and turned out to be wrong. Some of them signaled their personal weariness with Clintonism at that time, and fear now, as they report, to look as if they are carrying an agenda. One part of the Clinton mystique maintains: Deep down journalists think she's a political Rasputin who will not be dispatched. Prince Yusupov served him cupcakes laced with cyanide, emptied a revolver, clubbed him, tied him up and threw him in a frozen river. When he floated to the surface they found he'd tried to claw his way from under the ice. That is how reporters see Hillary.

And that is a grim and over-the-top analogy, which I must withdraw. What I really mean is they see her as the Glenn Close character in "Fatal Attraction": "I won't be ignored, Dan!"

* * *

Mr. Obama's achievement on Super Tuesday was solid and reinforced trend lines. The popular vote was a draw, the delegate count a rough draw, but he won 13 states, and when you look at the map he captured the middle of the country from Illinois straight across to Idaho, with a second band, in the northern Midwest, of Minnesota and North Dakota. He won Missouri and Connecticut, in Mrs. Clinton's backyard. He won the Democrats of the red states.

On the wires Wednesday her staff was all but conceding she is not going to win the next primaries. Her superdelegates are coming under pressure that is about to become unrelenting. It was easy for party hacks to cleave to Mrs Clinton when she was inevitable. Now Mr. Obama's people are reportedly calling them saying, Your state voted for me and so did your congressional district. Are you going to jeopardize your career and buck the wishes of the people back home?

Mrs. Clinton is stoking the idea that Mr. Obama is too soft to withstand the dread Republican attack machine. (I nod in tribute to all Democrats who have succeeded in removing the phrase "Republican and Democratic attack machines" from the political lexicon. Both parties have them.) But Mr. Obama will not be easy for Republicans to attack. He will be hard to get at, hard to address. There are many reasons, but a primary one is that the fact of his race will freeze them. No one, no candidate, no party, no heavy-breathing consultant, will want to cross any line--lines that have never been drawn, that are sure to be shifting and not always visible--in approaching the first major-party African-American nominee for president of the United States.

* * *

He is the brilliant young black man as American dream. No consultant, no matter how opportunistic and hungry, will think it easy--or professionally desirable--to take him down in a low manner. If anything, they've learned from the Clintons in South Carolina what that gets you. (I add that yes, there are always freelance mental cases, who exist on both sides and are empowered by modern technology. They'll make their YouTubes. But the mad are ever with us, and this year their work will likely stay subterranean.)


With Mr. Obama the campaign will be about issues. "He'll raise your taxes." He will, and I suspect Americans may vote for him anyway. But the race won't go low.

Mrs. Clinton would be easier for Republicans. With her cavalcade of scandals, they'd be delighted to go at her. They'd get medals for it. Consultants would get rich on it.

The Democrats have it exactly wrong. Hillary is the easier candidate, Mr. Obama the tougher. Hillary brings negative; it's fair to hit her back with negative. Mr. Obama brings hope, and speaks of a better way. He's not Bambi, he's bulletproof.

The biggest problem for the Republicans will be that no matter what they say that is not issue oriented--"He's too young, he's never run anything, he's not fully baked"--the mainstream media will tag them as dealing in racial overtones, or undertones. You can bet on this. Go to the bank on it.

The Democrats continue not to recognize what they have in this guy. Believe me, Republican professionals know. They can tell.

See all of today's editorials and op-eds, plus video commentary, on The Editorial Page.

And add your comments to the opinionjournal.com forum.

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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. We need to nominate Obama.
There's a lot to like about Hillary, but in the current political climate she is a shot in our face waiting to happen. Just my opinion.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. You do know who Peggy Nooner is, right? Or don't you?
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 07:58 AM by robbedvoter
Ronnie's fan and the author of Poppy's "kinder, gentler nation" as well as "read my lips: no new taxes". A fountain of wisdom, she.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. We all know who Peggy Noonan is. Having said that, this
article she has written is 100% SPOT ON when it comes to Hillary and just about sums up the situation in a nutshell. I'm sorrry, but does. Obama is, IMHO, unstoppable. If Hillary could have become the nominee she would have lost. Obama is going to be a blowout.

However, can Hillary step down when it is required of her or will she destroy our party? I believe she will do almost anything to keep hanging on no matter who it hurts. Because I think Hillary always is, and always will be, about Hilllary first and foremost.

Stand back and watch her try to get the Michigan and Florida delegates seated against the rules for HER. South Carolina was bad enough.

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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Yes, I know who she is.
I still think she has a point about Hillary.
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. This time she nailed it.
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 03:27 PM by Big Blue Marble
Peggy Noonan is no lightweight. And even though we disagree with her politics, she was sure able to read
the political dynamics of the 80's. And that is what she doing now.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Touching to see Peggy Nooner's concern for our primaries, non? She surely wants the best for us
Edited on Fri Feb-08-08 07:54 AM by robbedvoter
Also, interesting how you guys complain about all the left blogs articles on the cult yet have no compunction to post Nooner as a source on DY (and I have to say, she's one of your more upscale freeperish sources)
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. She was shilling for Obama last week, too. I, too, am touched by her concern for the Dems.
:rofl:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. "We know she is smart. Is she wise?"
Good question.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Who? Ronnie's/Poppy's speechwriter?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ever have an interesting conversation with a Republican?
It's possible.

By the way, do you ever get out of the house?
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. You are SO right. I think it's interesting to read articles from the
opposition. But, whenever you try to post, you get a zillion comments - flogging the messenger instead of having an intellectual discussion about what they are saying. Dick Morris and Newt - creepiest men alive -- always have a politcally savy take on things, IMHO.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. that is the question
regardless it's looking like it will be a nail biter till the end. The strength of her machine will be evident in what the super delegates do....i guess it depends on how much leverage the clintons still have.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Does Dubya Know How To Lose?
That man has no grace either, win or lose.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Dubya? Dubya? Good grief, Dubya is a lame duck!
He has already won twice, even if you believe that, but is time to stop worrying about somebody who has a few months left and start worrying about OUR future!
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. My Point Was
That Ms. Noonan is lambasting H Clinton for "now knowing how to lose" yet the current living hero of the Republican party shares that trait.

Why is a characteristic they admire in him so hard to swallow in her?
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Because if you haven't noticed, not many of them "are"
admiring him for anything. Not to mention the fact the man is history! He's gone. I can't believe we keep wasting this much time on him.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. There is recognizable wisdom in her rant.
And I don't particularly like her but can't disagree in this instance.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. While I have problems with Peggy Noonan as a source on Democratic candidates
She's nothing if not politically savvy. The question is whether this is her honest political assessment of the presidential campaign. Or is it just manipulative editorializing? As an Obama supporter, I hope it's the former and not the latter.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. It is not only honest but I think the best article written to date
about the situation as it stands.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Did you know she used to be a Dem? I have actually read her
book. I see how you drew a distinction between "political assessment" and "manipulative editorializing" - seems to me ideas are ideas regardless. How can you tell the difference?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. now i feel icky for reading that..
why o why did i do that...
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. she makes a good point in that I can't see Clinton conceding
or giving a concession speech. I just can't see it happening.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Yep - I can't either. Remember how she couldn't do it after SC
she added a "congratulations" to the end of another sentence and couldn't even look into the camera.

Do you think the Mets will win this year? I think they have a good chance. I'm a Yankee fan, but Mets are always in my heart too.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. i think it depends on three things
one, how well Jose Reyes rebounds from his poor finish last year. Two, how well Carlos Delgado rebounds from his horrid season last year, and three, how well the bullpen holds up.

I can see them getting to the World Series if everything breaks right.
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I have tried to imagine how she will do it.
It will be hard for her. This is her life dream. She believes she deserves it.

She will have to figure out something unifying to say. It will be interesting to watch.
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Independent-Voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. The DLC can fuck up a wet dream
Time and again, the dems have found ways to fuck up elections and pick the absolute worst candidates. Hillary would be a continuation of that fine tradition. 45% already loathe her, she's not going get much if any traction with independents, and a good number of democrats will likely sit this election out if she's the nominee. It's that simple.

Please don't fuck this one up this time. Obama is the only sane choice to be the nominee, period. He'll kick McCain's ass in the GE.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. As much as I hate to say it, Noonan nails the problem we have with Hillary
I don't sweat Obama cleaning McCain's clock, but with Hillary I get that queasy feeling of a nail-biter election night, and seeing her lose by a slim margin all because of the negative popularity she has. Hillary will bring out republican voters that would otherwise stay home.
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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. Even as an Obama supporter, her comparison of Clinton to Glen Close
in "Fatal Attraction" is way too creepy and over the top. Unfortunately, I can see that comparison sinking down into the lizard brains of voters and lingering. Very, very nasty.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. Peggy Noonan: the ultimate concern troll of all time.
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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
22. As much as I dislike Noonan
and support Clinton, it's a pretty good column. And I also agree with her about the Republican AND Democratic attack machines. We do have them- they're just a little bit wimpier and gentler than the Repugs.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
25. Don't appreciate some of her stereotypes, but overall it is a good article with salient
points if people would just read it without rankor.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. Agree 100%. Especially about "Fatal Attraction": "I won't be IGNORED, America!"
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. I thought it spot on, as well.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. YES SHE CAN
...lose, that is.

:P :kick:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. Fuck Peggy Noonan. (figuratively!)
The Clinton's lost re-election for Governor. They lost Congress. They almost lost their dignity.

What has Peggy ever put on the line? Nothing but her crack whore spin.


Note: 50.5% Obama, 49.5% Clinton. I caucus tomorrow.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. Noonan is a right-wing hack.... but she nailed this.... Hillary will NEVER concede gracefully...
...it is simply not in her.


She will bring the whole party down before she relents in this race. Her goal has nothing to do with the Democratic party... it's all about her.


If we Democrats screw this golden opportunity up... this opportunity that an Obama candidacy gives us... we deserve to lose.

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. You got little Jonah Goldberg in your corner too! (was on Maher show - calling
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 07:56 AM by robbedvoter
Obama - "noble".
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
38. If You Hillary Haters Have To Cling To Peggy Noonan,.....

...an old, burnt-out Reagan worshiper who can barely put a coherent sentence together, it just shows how desperate you are......
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. She's right about this: "Mrs. Clinton is losing this thing."
And losing ugly is not helpful.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
40. Posted several times already.
If you are going to pollute this place with the ravings of fascists, you could at least do a search first to see how many people have already beaten you to it.
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