Obama folks -- this is why/when I first got creeped out by "the cult" faction

[theHandpuppet]

Do you want to really listen to what I have to say or are you going to clap your hands over your ears and whistle a happy tune and pretend the cult factor simply doesn't exist?

If you truly want to know why some of us are creeped out by what appears to be a "cultish" angle to a certain faction of Obama's following, please read this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2566389

I had to do a search for this thread because it was posted some six weeks ago. Even then, by that time I had gotten so creeped out by the tone of many Obama threads I felt I had to respond -- and until Edwards dropped out of the race I was an Edwards supporter. Now, with only two candidates left in the field I have decided to support Hillary Clinton. There are many reasons for this but the assimiliation directive from the Obama camp certainly gave me pause.

The cult factor is not just a meme made up by folks from the Clinton campaign. There are those among you who have and continue to cultivate this image, telling people they will be assimilated and dressing up pics of Obama like he's some character out of a superhero comic book. It has all the feel of Jesus Camp and I've seen enough of glassy-eyed tent revivals throughout my life!

Take stock, folks. I'm offering up just one persepective from someone who's been really turned off by the "cultish" tone of some Obama supporters. Dismissing the alarm of folks like me doesn't mean those perceptions have no basis. I observed this disturbing trend a couple of months ago.

Anyway, that's my two cents, for what it's worth.

[Sapphocrat]

1. K&R and...

...the flameproofiest suit ever. Fingers crossed that you come out alive, friend! ;)

[theHandpuppet]

21. Thanks...

No problem with the flamesuit. I expect that there will be some folks who don't want to hear what I have to say and that's okay, too.

:hi:

[zabet]

2. Jesus Camp is

what it brings to mind
for me too.

[rox63]

3. You are talking about a few people, not most Obama supporters

And there are Clinton supporters who are just as rabid. I've never posted anything like that, and I never will. I understand that politicians are just human beings, with no more intrinsic value than any other human being. That said, they are in a position to make changes whose effects can and do ripple across the entire world. No politician has more influence like this than the POTUS.

Edited to correct typo.

[LostinVA]

10. I haven't either -- I have NEVER bashed any of the candidates

I have never started a nasty thread or personally attacked anyone in GDP except for very obvious trolls. I alert and call out people of "all avatars" when they overstep. But, that makes no difference. I have the wrong avatar, so I'm the enemy.

Yet, I was "swarmed" in a thread yesterday for literally no reason, and treated like I was a troll. I put several people on ignore because of that. It was scary, thuggish behavior.

[Teaser]

4. Some silly photoshop creeped you out?

Christ, it's not like it was Hentai or anything like that.

[zonkers]

39. No fucking kidding.

[asthmaticeog]

5. Um, yeeeah...

Cent 1) You're taking that post way too seriously. It's a cute bit of fluff, it was obviously done in fun.

Cent 2) Politics ultimately isn't about politics, in the end it's about policy, public policy by which people literally live and die. So making a choice about a candidate based on he general tenor of his or her supporters on one website is so fucking unconscionably myopic that people who do so should have the franchise revoked.

Anyway, that's my two cents, for what it's worth.

(BTW: Before some ass posts "expected response from an Obamabot" or suchlike, I'm undecided.)

[theHandpuppet]

14. Please reread my post -- this is not about just one thread

That thread was the first one where I actually spoke up about what I felt was a decidedly cultish tone creeping in to the Obama movement, but my response came only after reading many such threads that seemed to be deliberately cultivating a personality cult. This was certainly not a response to just one thread or one poster.

But like I said, I'm offering up just my observations on this issue. Folks can deny it or try to make it a debate over a single thread, but that would be unfortunate. From my perspective, the "Obama cult" did not arise from some Clinton camp meme but from some Obama supporters themselves, and that does their candidate no positive service.

[asthmaticeog]

18. I'm not saying there's no such thing as an Obama cult.

Re-read MY post. I'm saying that the evidence that you presented for an Obama cult is shit, and that even if there is an Obama cult on DU, that's as idiotic a basis for deciding a nominee, as oh, I dunno, skin color or sex.

[theHandpuppet]

25. Nope. You misread my post

Quote:

"...until Edwards dropped out of the race I was an Edwards supporter. Now, with only two candidates left in the field I have decided to support Hillary Clinton. There are many reasons for this but the assimiliation directive from the Obama camp certainly gave me pause."

My decision was based on many other factors, not the cultish devotion exhibited among some Obama supporters. I'm quite capable of making up my own mind and for my own reasons.

Take care.



:)

[Usrename]

32. I'm just not seeing it, either, I guess.

There's some pretty offensive behavior I've seen from Obama, and at least one thing that I really dislike to the point of near rage, but whatever it is that is bugging you is completely invisible to me.

I can't even see it when I squint really hard. Is it something you could describe any better?

If he wins the general election then the definition of "cult" will have to be changed to include another use that means "mainstream" I guess.

I don't see anything that fits any definition of cult that I'm familiar with. Are sure this isn't doublethink happening inside your head?

I'm not kidding, these last few years have taken their toll on a lot of people, especially those who try to carry too much.

[RandomKoolzip]

43. Dude, don't get all logical on us.

:thumbsup:

[stahbrett]

6. Excited youth + photoshopping skills = goofy pics, not cause to vote for/against someone (n/t)

[joeybee12]

7. This "cult" thing has been noticed for about a year now...The Daily Show

did a segment abotu Obamania when he first announced he was running and people went crazy (some people) even though they had pretty much no idea who he was or what he stood for...the clincher was when Samantha Bee claimed Obama cured her herpes.

[flyarm]

8. Larry Johnson wrote something about this "NEO" stuff yesterday..

check it out..

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

you won't get any Flame stuff from me..i saw this stuff for real on the ground in Iowa and in South Carolina..including little kids..i mean 7=10 yrs old..being used to hold signs...and chanting on the streets.they had them dressed the same ..and eewww...it bothered all us adults that were watching it.

we adults and people who have raised kids were very creeped out..

it is why i have stayed far from Obama's camp and have not joined anyone's camp...i may actually sit this one out now since Edwards was thrown under the bus..

but i will not join the Obama team in any way after the shit i have seen ..up close and very uncomfortable..

all adults should find some concern in this behavior.

fly

[KoKo]

35. Agree with Larry:: We are The Ones we've been Waiting For," "We are the Change We Seek"

does sound cultish. I didn't get the "Matrix" connection...but now I see how odd it is that he keeps repeating that mantra... It doesn't really mean anything but it seems to uplift people..but in spooky way if your aren't part of his rally.

[ginnyinWI]

44. I believe it originated with the Hopi Indians. n/t

[druidity33]

60. to me

it means that we don't need to wait for someone to come along and do something about our problems. That we can take action Today. Ourselves. That seems like a positive message to me. Not cultish. All politicians have talking points, mannerisms, and campaign speech go-to bits.

I've lived in Community and have talked at length to actual former cult members.

With that said, i now must say that this whole thing is an absolutely absurd and maddening media inflated talking point, this "Obama cult" thing is nothing more than an effort to dismiss him based on people's fear of the unknown and terrible associations with the word "cult".

Do you think after 3 months of hearing the 2 words Obama and cult together in the same sentence, that people will care if there ever actually was one?


The Matrix was a fucking movie. People have died in/because of Charismatic leaders that took advantage of their followers. Are you saying that's what BO is doing? Do you think that we shouldn't nominate a charismatic leader?

sorry, didn't mean to unload on you.

It's just such a pointless meme...

I'd rather be talking about Voter Rights issues, Energy Policy, Health Care reform, oh just about anything other than innuendo, hyperbole, conjecture, and fabrication...

:shrug:

[BlackVelvet04]

41. at least one of Obama's endorsers

thought it was great that her children talked her into supporting him. Who thinks it's a great idea to let the children choose the president?

[AX10]

63. It bothers me greatly.

[Heidi]

9. I've stayed out of the "cult" discussions, but My view is that the level of zeal demonstrated by

that thread and others like it, particularly when coupled with a condescending "I know better than you" attitude, does Obama no favors. But I wouldn't hold Sen. Obama responsible for the behavior of his supporters, just as I wouldn't hold Sen. Clinton responsible for over-the-top behavior by her supporters. Whoever the candidate it, I guess I'm not much of a "joiner." :shrug:

:hi: TheHandPuppet! :)

[theHandpuppet]

20. Hi Heidi...

Yes, I feel like I have to hold my nose and vote this year. If Edwards' name is still on the ballot here in WV, I'll be voting for him in the May primary. In any case, I think the GLBT community gets thrown under the bus once again. No surprise, but it doesn't inspire me to join anyone's "movement". Pretty platitudes and empty rhetoric make a poor meal for a hungry person.

:hi:

[Heidi]

22. I agree 100 percent

that the GLBT community seems to be of little importance to our two remaining Democratic presidential candidates. Whoever is elected, I'm gonna feel like apologizing to my GLBT friends because electing a Democrat isn't _nearly_ enough when there's a whole segment of our population being denied basic human rights.

[Armstead]

11. I think in that case, you need a sense of humor

I seriously doubt that poster believes Obama is Kaneau Reeves in disguise.

I was an Edwards supporter and now that he's out, I'm supporting Obama, because I believe we need a change.

Although I have in the past, posted a couple of times that I believe Obama's speeches substituted cliches for meaning too often,I never sensed anything cultish about it. Most politicians speeches try to do exactly what Obama does -- he's just a lot better at it.

And frankly, some of the talk of us Edwards supporters verged on excessive hero worship too.

[buff2]

12. Remember when they made bu$h into Jesus Christ in the flesh?

Well,now it's Jesus Obama Christ. I think I want to puke. :puke:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

23. Name-calling on both sides is childish

[Marrah_G]

15. Damn- apparently I am ignoring the OP of that thread. Could you paraphrase maybe?

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

19. "As Oprah the Oracle said: OBAMA is THE ONE." Oprah cult too?

Enough said.

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. LOL! Two of us

[QC]

28. DON'T READ IT11!! IT'S BLASPHEMY!!!!!!1!1!! N/T

[Bonobo]

16. All you are doing is saying he is charismatic and then adding a sinister suggestion. Boring.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

26. Read this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4475087

It will show you how much of a tool you are.

[Marrah_G]

27. Hmmmm- can't read that thread either....it seems I have made the right decisions :)

I can't wait for the primaries to be over.

[jonnyblitz]

57. if you read some of the links on that thread that the OP provides

you will find it is fellow Obama supporters that are complaining of the cult-like behavior.

[Neecy]

29. I'm starting to resent this

I'm a rational, educated adult and I'm hardly part of a 'cult' because I'm supporting the non-DLC candidate.

You cherry-picked a thread six weeks old that is clearly a joke - a joke, and twisted it into an smear to broadbrush Obama supporters here as somehow cultish, deranged, brainwashed because we don't support Hillary Clinton. The fact that you had to dig so far back to find what is a JOKE thread just shows how thin your cult theory actually is.

Stop this crap. It's grossly offensive, childish, and divisive.

[RandomKoolzip]

45. Hear fucking hear.

[MadHound]

30. Puhleeze, this is no different than what was evident during other charismatic campaigns

Were you creeped out by Bill's campaign and followers? What about JFK's, or RFK's, or McCarthy's. This is what goes on during the campaign of a charismatic candidate, and smearing that candidates followers as "cultists" should be beneath you and other Hillary supporters.

OK, so the candidate that you're backing comes across as an aloof policy wonk, as opposed to Obama's more approachable, personable, warm and charismatic style. That's OK, but you need to deal with it rather than lashing out at your fellow Democrats and liberals. Remember, we've got a general election coming up, and if you continue to employ these scorched earth tactics you're going to turn off a lot of people and lose a lot of votes this fall. Is that what you want, to win the battle but lose the war.

Knock off this childish bullshit and play the hand that is dealt you.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Not lashing out, just telling you what this one voter has seen

And certainly the great majority of Obama supporters are not into the cultish aspects of his following. But I've seen a number of threads here of late from folks wondering where this perception of a personality cult arose and I'm simply giving you my perspective. Some would say it's a DLC conspiracy, others a Clinton meme, etc. What I'm saying is that you're doing your candidate a disservice to ignore or deny that there are those among Obama's supporters who have themselves cultivated this perception of a cult following.

I was an Edwards supporter before he withdrew and if his name is still on the WV primary ballot I wll be voting for him. Hillary Clinton is a second choice for me but I'm not feeling inspired by the menu of choices this election cycle. In the end, I'll vote for whichever Dem is on the ballot come November because we can't afford another four years of Republican tyranny.

Be well!

:)

[MadHound]

38. Again, were you creeped out by the Clinton campaign in '92?

It had all the charismatic elements present in Obama's campaign, more perhaps. Hell, the man was getting called everything from the second coming of JFK to the second coming of Elvis. Yet I didn't see people from other campaigns getting freaked out by this style, not to the point of calling out his followers as cultists.

I think this meme, where ever it originated, does a disservice both to Obama and to Hillary. It shows up Hillary and her supporters as petty and childish, willing to stoop to any level to win at any cost. Continue down this path and it could very well come back to bite her in the GE this fall, as disgruntled Obama supporters go third party or go home. Is that what you want?

Sorry, but you are persisting in spreading this meme, if you were smart you would stop. Oh, and for your own information, I am not a partisan of either camp.

[theHandpuppet]

47. Yeah, I'm part of a big Hillary conspiracy...

:eyes:

And not only that, my secret desire is to undermine the whole Democratic party so McCain can be fascist-in-chief for the next four years.

I was an active supporter of both Clinton and Gore and although I did see some of what you described in the first Clinton campaign it was nothing compared to what I've seen from a fringe element of the Obama supporters.

Oh well. I suppose such a response to even the slightest criticism of this campaign was to be expected. I only regret that Edwards withdrew so early in the primary season.

[cooolandrew]

31. Sorry we are far too positive for the "cult" word brain washing, nice try though. It;s a movement.

[Usrename]

34. I thought it was a nation.

hehe - Obamanation :hi:

[Alter Ego]

33. Looks like satire to me.

Do you honestly believe this?

[Adelante]

37. Okay

I will take stock. Done.

Don't be so fearful :scared:

[KeSs]

40. this post = fail

[RandomKoolzip]

42. So the alternative to clapping our hands over our ears is...what? Converting to Hillaryism?

For crissakes, people: BELIEVE IT OR NOT, some of us chose Obama as our candidate after careful research and comparison shopping. NONE of us think he's "the messiah" or any of that crap. Many of us are fervent, nay giddy, at the possibility of voting for an impassioned Black orator who appears to really have his shit together.

Yes, Obama's speeches have been long on inspirational rhetoric and short on specifics. Yes, he's not as experienced as Hillary. This is all obvious. If Hillary wins the nod, I will gladly pull the lever for her in November. She's a great and capable leader as well, IMO. I simply prefer the enthusiasm and lack of cynicism Obama represents, and I'd rather have a totally fresh mind running things. I agree with most of his stances (not all - the McClurkin thing, for inst, still angers me), and the ones I disagree on are not as major as the ones on which I disagree with Hillary.

And also, YES, I understand why some think supporting Obama = joining a cult. His supporters can get mighty enthusiastic at times. I get it. I'm not "clapping my hands over my ears." But understanding this tendency exists does not make me shift my vote. Obama is not his followers and politics is half stagecraft anyways - if they're swooning over a rock star, at least he's a smart and facile rock star.

At this stage of the process, I'd rather see Obama win the GE. But.... Ultimately, it's really not up to me, is it? (If it were, Robert Pollard would be president) JUST AS LONG AS WE END REPUBLICAN CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT'S OBAMA or HILLARY!

[TexasObserver]

46. there is a group of Hillary supporters who are working with a plan

They are getting programmed buzz words and themes from the underbelly of the Clinton campaign, and trying to make them part of the dialogue.

It's Bush League and Bush like. The ghost of Lee Atwater is alive and well among that group of dirty tricksters.

[theHandpuppet]

48. Oh yes! I'm part of the Hillary matrix!

:eyes:

Okay, just ignore what folks like me are trying to tell you. That will help.

Sheesh. Where's John Edwards when you really need him.

[TexasObserver]

49. If you're floating the cult meme, you definitely ARE

if the shoe fits, wear it

[theHandpuppet]

50. I noticed this unfortunate aspect before it was a "meme"

And at the time I was an Edwards supporter with no horse in your race. Some of you have wondered where this "cult" label arose and I'm telling you what I saw and the impression it made upon me. I'm sorry you believe that makes me the enemy.

[gristy]

51. And there are criminals in prison who support Clinton!

So I can't support Clinton?

There are lepers in a colony in ND who support Edwards! So I can't support Edwards?

There are people who the RW and others brand as "cultists"! So I can't support Obama and his platform?

I sure as hell am going to support Obama and his platform, RW memes be damned.

been really turned off by the "cultish" tone of some Obama supporters
I'm truly sorry that you're letting your manipulated perception of other Obama supporters influence your choice.

[theHandpuppet]

52. Nope, it didn't influence my final choice

Granted, it gave me pause but that fringe element didn't make my decision for me.

[CyberPieHole]

53. K&R and thanks for the excellent link. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

54. You creep easily.

[Elspeth]

55. Nah, she's not the only one saying this

There's been a lot in the media about this. Politicians can be good but they are not messiahs.

[Wombatzu]

56. it's a symptom of how numb and apathetic we have become

as a society that when people enthusiastically support a politician and start to hope and believe things can change they get branded as a cult by the people who watch and wonder how such a thing is possible.

[NMMNG]

58. This is the post that did it for at leat two of us

This is what the Obama 'movement' is all about...

And that's what spawned this Blog post.


People crowding in on Obama all desperately trying to maybe touch the hem of his garment like he's the messiah or something.

People getting excited because they had the chance to receive fifth-hand sweat from Obama's hand? (Which they name, no less)

Then down thread you see that "some get Obama and the others just need to catch up with the masses (and there will be plenty of time before November)" as if we just need to be converted or something.




That is bloody scary.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

59. It is very odd. I'd compare to historical figures, but not today!

This thing is a MEDIA based campaign and the media likes stories not issues!

[earth mom]

61. There is NO critical thinking going on. That's why I think it's a cult.

When people fight every bit of truth that we all post about either candidate and it's ignored or dismissed without consideration, then it's a cult.

Look no further than freeper behavior as a mirror. :scared:

[ficus1]

62. I wonder what the breakdown between Clinton/Obama is amongst humorless voters

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. So the draft Sponge Bob movement didn't get any traction? n/t

[cooolandrew]

65. Ill just hide you nicely away.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

66. The cult thing is giving Obama more and more coverage

if Obama's opponents are trying to smear him with cult status then they are shooting themselves in the foot. There is no cult, only people gathering to see and hear him, like they do with Hillary.