Let's talk about policy details. Obama and bio-fuel

[hertopos]

Since Obama has a very good chance to win nomination, I really want Obama supporters to change this!!

Obama's environmental plan heavily emphasize on bio fuel.
This is very bad idea for global warming.

Bio-fuel is the worst alternative to oil.
I am involved with local Green initiative and movement.
We are already aware of the problematic nature of bio-fuel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/science/earth/08wbiofuels.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Please ask Obama to change this.
As a Hillary supporter, I am aware that Obama still have more momentum and he still has edge over Hillary.

I am in no way plan to vote for Repub.
The environment and Global warming is such a serious issue.

I urge Obama supporter.
Please change the emphasis on bio-fuel

Hertopos

[KittyWampus]

1. My idea is thermal depolymerization. Bring your waste to local center and fuel up while there.

Our fuel sources MUST be made locally and out of our waste.

Exploiting natural resources just depletes the earth and leaves scars and pollution.

Growing fuel is a waste of energy and valuable land.

Producing fuel from waste locally reduces energy lost in transportation.

thermal depolymerization does work, by the way. there are plants up and running.

[hertopos]

6. That's i agree however, most of bio-fuel 'boom'

is from crop.

I am originally from Japan. There are lots of local efforts that makes a use out of waste.

However, more focus was on ethanol from corn and other crops. This is just so scary.

I will bite my tongue to support Obama if he become candidate. I have a daughter. We have responsibility to stop climate change and environmental disaster for our future generation.

What do you think about nuclear? I am against is since there are so many problem with its waste management.

I am trying to do every small thing I can do and I face challenge every day.
I am sick and tired of current DU threads.

I am also concerned about Obama's economy policy. Do you have any idea whom he may take as a senior adviser?

Hertopos

[KittyWampus]

23. Not a fan of nuclear, there's the mining and waste and potential for horrible accidents.

Clean Coal, however, I would use in the VERY short term. If switching to a Green Economy is a given, we still are going to need something to tide us over.

[elixir]

9. Thanks, I'll read on this. Do you know if any candidate has this on their radar?

[KittyWampus]

22. I doubt it, they are ALL hooked into the corporate grid, so to speak. Biofuel=farmers

Clean Coal= coal mining operations
Nuclear= well, enough said.

[Dawgs]

2. This Obama supporter agrees with you, although I'm not very concerned.

I think he will have the right people in place to help him make the right decisions. I trust that he will listen to the experts.

[hertopos]

3. Look, let's talk about policy. I am tired of fight that has nothing to do with our future.

Dear Obama supporter,

Please change some of Obama's environmental policy platform regarding bio-fuel.

The other issue is nuclear energy.

Those are more important who will actually implement.

Hertopos

[Webster Green]

4. More research and development will change the equation..

More efficient methods will emerge if enough R&D is devoted to the problem. Creative alternatives would include use of by-products from other processes that get recycled into bio-fuels. (Ethanol made from cheese whey for example).

[hertopos]

11. How to make bio-fuel is an issue.

How to contain green house gas is also a huge issue.

I think we should change the atmosphere of DU to focus more on policy platform.

I am very glad that there will be 64page platform on line now. I really appreciate that.

However, just once if Obama do what Hillary did on the eve of super Tuesday,
it will be much better for typical Hillary supporter to learn more about his policy details. Since he is the candidate, he should be able to explain his platform in details. If not, how can he implement those policies.

I am a realist. I cannot deny, there are good chance that Obama may become the candidate. I want to be reassured about his ability to implement policy details. One way to show is to show how well he understand his platform and its sticky points.

Frankly speaking, more debates are actually good idea because except the very last debates, past ones were not about policies.

I can understand that Obama supporters discomfort with Hillary's past. I disagree with some of her choices myself. However, so far, her platform is very impressive and I do have a faith in her competence to implement them.

I think it will actually help Obama to focus more on policy details. For that matter, debates are not bad platform.

Hertopos

[Coexist]

5. do you mind if I ask what you support?

I imagine if you asked a candidate to abandon a position, there would have to be another one take its place.

[hertopos]

15. Again, my position is more subtle..

The most important thing is to actually cut waste and over consumption of energy. That is done by two levels. One, you develop better technology to save energy. Two, you actually cut how much you consume and produce waste.
Both requries serious committement.

I was actually reading a comparizon between Hillary's position on energy and Obama's position on energy.

'The converstion to bio-fuel' stands out from his plan.
This bothered me.

To make a clean bio-fuel out of wast is still developing. On the other hand, some agricuture conglomarit are looking at producing ethanol from crops as their future 'cash cow'.
U.S. style mega farming totally destroyed American farm land and other places. The birth of organice farm is more about sustainability than short-term profit.

I really don't appreciate your short sighted conclusion.

I am asking this because I think Obama is a good chance to win. As a Hillary supporter, I want to make sure he won't keep bad part of platform.

Hertopos

[Coexist]

18. I was not being rude -I did not mean to come off like that

what I meant was, if I were to suggest to him (not likely) that biofuel is a bad idea, the logical question he would respond with would be, "tell me what you suggest and we can discuss this".

Since you are involved in alternative energy discussions and I am not, I was asking what you thought was the best solution for the planet.

[joshcryer]

7. Of course minimal levels of biofuel create more CO2 than it takes away.

It's because those minimal, R&D levels of biofuel production actually use oil to make the biofuel!

Brazil proves that biofuel can be utilized to bring down CO2 emissions!

[frazzled]

8. Both candidates need to consider this: Clinton talks biofuels too.

[joshcryer]

10. Yes, that's the whole point of Green Collar Jobs.

Nothing wrong with biofuel. It's easy to discredit these flawed RW studies.

[hertopos]

12. Excuse me, that is wrong.

It has nothing to do with RW.

Not all bio-fuel are bad.
But bio-fuel produced by crops are very bad idea.

I am working for local Green initiative for so long.
My link is the very recent study about bio-fuel.
Many environmentalists already raise concern on bio-fuel.

I said the emphasis on bio-fuel is not such a good idea.
Can you be more serious about details of policy platforms?

Hertopos

[joshcryer]

14. You have to use the right crops, corn is a bad crop to use.

Merely using the tailings can produce hundreds of thousands of gallons of ethanol.

The environmentalists that raise concerns over biofuels don't do the math, they take RW studies, studies that say "oh it uses more energy, it uses more oil," etc to dismiss a system that can be closed. You run the machinery on ethanol, for instance. And it's always focused on a given crop that is clearly inefficient. Look at the post below this one, for instance. Using algae could easily accomplish the task if done properly. I know several students who are working to find the genes in algae to make them produce more mass and be more resilient.

Planetary algae use 5x as much energy as us. We need to hit the problem from a thousand different angles to be able to figure out the best solution.

[hertopos]

20. Using crops for producing bio-fuel is very bad idea of farming

If you can make it from algae, that's actually have good potential, I agree.
However, like every other really good potential, it takes time.

This is why cutting the consumption of energy and waste is very important.

The problem is that right now there is seriously wrong focus on how to produce bio-fuel as I stated in my other post.

What you think irrelevant actually has a lot of impact on the environment.

For example, I have to rely on disposable diapers and pull-ups. My daughter is mildly autistic and my husband is in school. I am working hard but in no way I can use reusable diaper currently available.

However, we drive prius and Matrix ( next time, I will buy Hybrid to replace.) I don't use dishwasher except when we have a big party. At big party I stop using paper plates and cups. I bring my bags to my grocery shopping. I am trying to buy more local stuff. ( Through May to November, I buy produce from local farmers market and local 'pick your own' farm.)

Another big issue for U.S. is the lack of public transportation.

Well, I digress. I just want to make a point that in current industrial climate, production of bio-fuel can end up environmental nightmare.

The following link is I start participated from last year.

http://baltimoregreenweek.org/page.php?id=1

http://www.csballiance.org/

If you are in DC metro area, you can join us.

Hertopos

[joshcryer]

16. Do you have a link to Joe Fargione's paper? I cannot find it on his page.

Have you read his paper?

[Indenturedebtor]

13. How about algal biodiesel

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Biodiesel_from_Algae_Oil

That's the way to go imo.

[joshcryer]

17. Agreed, I know a guy who works in this industry.

It's a long ways off, but it could be around the corner if we actually put research money into it.

[hertopos]

21. as I said, I agree. however, what I am concerned about is the interest of mega Agri business!!

They are after this. You have to pay attention to this.

Hertopos

[KittyWampus]

24. you are wrong. ANY crop used as fuel is a waste of net energy. ANY. Not to mention land

that can be used for food.

Growing plants for fuel in the corporate model:

seeds produced in a plant must be shipped to farms
farms use machinery and chemicals to grow the plants
processing plants turn plants into fuel (this is the visible footprint)
fuel must then be distributed from central location using more fuel

Every aspect of that equation=waste of energy. Either outright or with an invisible footprint.

[thevoiceofreason]

19. As to current biofuel technology and uses, I agree

But Barack's plan is far more than that. His plan focuses on the waste products of agricultural processes, and other waste, as the key. This approach does not create the incentive to cut down more forests to plant more crops that are geared toward fuel instead of food. Rather, it provides a nice tie-in with some environmental needs too.