Edwardians should remember Hillary never did these things to Edwards

[jackson_dem]

Hillary's "supporters" didn't swiftboat Edwards on the netroots. Where do you think the talking point about Edwards' "rhetoric not matching his record" originated from?. Her top aide never went on national tv and deliberately lied about Edwards. She didn't send out Rove-style mailers attacking Edwards in Iowa. She didn't basically call Edwards a phony in New Hampshire (using the "rhetoric doesn't match his record" meme used by Obamites on the netroots...). All of this is not enough to oppose a candidate but we should not have amnesia. We can forgive but we should never forget who ran a gutter campaign against Edwards and who took the high road. Don't let the post-Edwards withdrawal lovefest from these folks fool you. Even the biggest swiftboaters of Edwards in the blogosphere have professed their affection for him because they want us to vote for their candidate. The minute this candidate drops out or wins the nomination they will return to their real position toward Edwards.

Since some Obamites are denying these things happeneed:

The mailer: http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Obama%20Oppo%20on%20JRE%20-%20On%20Labor%20in%20Iowa.pdf
Here's a rich Obama memo attacking Edwards for what he would do three weeks later in Nevada: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/29/538074.aspx

The Axlerod comments are well documented. He went on television and claimed Edwards had no accomplishments in the Senate when four years earlier he was on CNN praising Edwards' Senate record.

[KittyWampus]

1. trying to convince Edwards supporters to join your Astroturf campaign, eh?

[jackson_dem]

2. Obamites, as usual, want to act as if Obama has no record and was born yesterday

[Occam Bandage]

4. No, Obama has a long and solidly liberal record, with thousands of progressive votes.

[karynnj]

27. Here's a ling to two very impressive Obama accomplishments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4474887&mesg_id=4478343

[cali]

6. bwahahaha.

YOU are the same pathetic untruthful swiftboater you were when you were supporting Edwards. Spin, spin, spin your bullshit, hillbot.

[jackson_dem]

11. cali

Get over yourself. No one cares about your musings from your self-appointed throne. You are easily the most arrogant poster here and that's saying something. :rofl:

Speaking of untruthful Obamite swiftboaters, you've never brought yourself to acknowledge your hero Leahy voted with Edwards on four of the five bills Obamites like you used to say Edwards' "rhetoric didn't match his record".

[Occam Bandage]

12. So, what do you think of Hillary's robocalls? Don't they kind of defeat your OP?

[cali]

16. speaking for others again?

How pathetic. And now how about those robo-call she used against him in SC?

I'm not arrogant, and I'm not a liar. You, on the other hand....

[jackson_dem]

Will you acknowledge your ignorance of Edward's record?

Your local hero voted with him on four of the five bills Obamites, and no one should forget it was almost exclusively Obamites who did this, used to claim Edwards was a fraud.

"I am not arrogant." :rofl:

[Tarc]

41. Glad someone else sees this user's true colors, thanks

[Straight Shooter]

22. DU's resident name-caller.

Like her candidate, thin-skinned, prone to defensiveness, a smug sense of superiority over those who disagree, fights with insults and insinuations.

Barack has consistently mocked Edwards. If Edwards endorses Barack, it will be because he thinks it will help in the GE, not because he thinks Barack is a good person. Get over yourself.


/grammar

[Occam Bandage]

3. Actually, hers was the only campaign to send out Edwards-is-a-phony robocalls.

Hello, This is the Hillary Clinton for President Campaign.

Before you vote on Saturday, you should know that John Edwards voted for permanent trade relations with China. That’s right, John Edwards voted for the bill that cost thousands of jobs. Like the ones in the textile mills he talks about so much down here.

You should also know that John Edwards made nearly a half a million dollars working for a Wall Street investment fund. A fund that’s been profiting on foreclosing on the homes of families; including 100 homes right here in South Carolina. That’s according to The State newspaper. Here in South Carolina, Edwards says he’s one of us, but up on Wall Street he was just another one of them.

Can you trust John Edwards?


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Clinton_robocalls_hit_Edwards.html

[Bread and Circus]

8. Thank you. Jackson_Dem, you just got served.

[jackson_dem]

14. Obama didn't do the things listed above?

Kool aid doesn't wash Obama's record away. Or does it? :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

18. Your OP is "Hillary never did these things to Edwards." She demonstrably did.

[cali]

19. no. he didn't do most of the things you claim

and your insistence that Edwards campaign was done in by swift boating Obama supporters on the web, is delusional.

Seek help.

[jackson_dem]

25. So you are channeling Baghdad Bob defend St. Obama?

The mailers, Axlerod, and Obama's New Hampshire state are all confirmed facts in reality, although perhaps not in the state of denial.

Edwards' wasn't done in by the swiftboating, at least not the netroots wing of it. I said that and you know it, but that doesn't stop you... Edwards was damaged and it is obvious where it came from. It wasn't Hillary or Dodd supporters who went around for a year selling the "Edwards is a phony! His record doesn't match his rhetoric!" garbage. Edwardians should never forget this.

[Occam Bandage]

26. So, how about those robocalls? Don't they defeat your "Hillary never" point?

He must have me on ignore.

[ingac70]

5. Please remember her robocalls in South Carolina!!

"Hello, This is the Hillary Clinton for President Campaign.

Before you vote on Saturday, you should know that John Edwards voted for permanent trade relations with China. That’s right, John Edwards voted for the bill that cost thousands of jobs. Like the ones in the textile mills he talks about so much down here.

You should also know that John Edwards made nearly a half a million dollars working for a Wall Street investment fund. A fund that’s been profiting on foreclosing on the homes of families; including 100 homes right here in South Carolina. That’s according to The State newspaper. Here in South Carolina, Edwards says he’s one of us, but up on Wall Street he was just another one of them.

Can you trust John Edwards?"

[Occam Bandage]

10. I like how he blames Obama for "the netroots" attacking Edwards, but ignores that Hillary herself

sent out advertisements and robocalls calling Edwards a phony.

[jackson_dem]

20. The robocall is a wash with Obama's Iowa mailer

Obama's Iowa mailer was basically the same as the robocall in its content. Did Hillary's "supporters" start a netroots meme that Edwards is a phony? Did Hillary's top aid deliberately lie on national television about him? Did Hillary herself basically call Edwards a phony>

[Occam Bandage]

21. Um...dude? The netroots doesn't count for shit. Nobody gives a fuck about DU.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jackson_dem]

36. Cali at it again!

:rofl:

The Iowa mailers, Axlerod lying about Edwards on television, and Obama's New Hampshire statement reported on First Read are all documented facts.

No Hillary supporter has complained about my posts about her. Clearly they have not seen any "smears" from me about Hillary. Anything to deflect attention from St. Obama, though!!!!!

[surfermaw]

7. I know I am voting Hillary

[hfojvt]

9. she didn't have to, since they were not competing for the same supporters

Who was the one who went off on a rant against Edwards in one debate? It was Kucinich. You attack your rivals. Edwards was not a rival to Clinton, because his supporters were largely people like me - people who would not give Hillary the time of day even if she bought them a watch.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Except in South Carolina, where she was trying to consolidate the white vote behind her,

and so she put out some nasty messages again Edwards.

[jackson_dem]

17. Both shared the same base of white working folk

And fighting for the same supporters is no excuse anyway for running a gutter campaign after claiming you are going to transform politics. Obama didn't just promise a clean campaign. He is claiming he will transform politics.

[hfojvt]

37. that is not a homogenous group and not the same class either

I am not making excuses as much as I am saying that Hillary would be no better. Also, claiming that an opponent's "record does not match their rhetoric" is not really gutter politics. It may be a hard shot, like a linebacker flattening a receiver in the middle of the field, but it's a good clean hit. Good thing too, that Hillary did not promise to transform politics, so she can have surrogates bring up cocaine use and then support their ridiculous denials.

[jackson_dem]

39. It's a cowardly way of calling someone a phony

I am not saying Hill has run the cleanest campaign. She was just a lot cleaner toward Edwards than obama and we should remember that.

[hfojvt]

44. I think we should remember that she copied his health care plan

and his economic stimulus and is trying to be a populist like him, without near the record to back it up. Edwards gave the same "Two Americas" speeches in 2004. Hillary just stole his ideas and pretended long enough to knock John out of the race.

[blm]

15. Carville sabotaged Ohio voters in 2004. Kerry-Edwards would be in the WH today

but for the deceit some of Hillary's loyalists engaged in throughout 2004 campaign.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


And....

Does anyone wonder WHY Terry McAuliffe never led the DNC to secure the election process after 2000 blatant theft? Why were 2002 and 2004 allowed to be stolen even more blatantly by an RNC whose tactics went uncountered for four years?

[K Gardner]

23. You are NOT really saying in multiple threads, and with a straight face, that HRC did

NOTHING via email, surrogates, supporters or tactics, to minimalize John Edwards?? I WAS an Edwards supporter, JD, and I don't remember it that way at all. Please, just because you've changed into a Hillary supporter, don't adopt her tactics. Its not becoming.

[jackson_dem]

29. Of course she did but comparatively she ran a clean campaign against him

I am not a Hillary supporter. I am annoyed at the bull about Obama on here and call Obamites on it.

[K Gardner]

32. What does DU have to do with allegations you are posting about CAMPAIGNS??

[jackson_dem]

34. DU has to do with you calling me a Hillary supporter

This is politics. No one runs a truly clean campaign but Hillary was much better than Obama when it came to Edwards.

[Occam Bandage]

35. "Edwards says he’s one of us, but up on Wall Street he was just another one of them." - HRC.

[Occam Bandage]

33. Except for when she needed his voters, and started trying to smear him as a phony.

And you claim that's somehow better than "Obama supporters on the netroots" calling him a phony :crazy:.

[blm]

40. Clean? TeamClinton undermined Kerry-Edwards campaign for their own selfish run

for office.

I would guess that Edwards has become more aware of that over the last few years.


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

You think Edwards doesn't KNOW by now that Terry McAuliffe was never interested in the DNC performing its duty for the 2004 ticket?

[karynnj]

24. It is not swiftboating

to say that his record does not match his rhetoric and to cite examples. Edwards had to stand on his record just like everyone else.
What lies about Edwards are you talking about? It is fair to state that the rhetoric doesn't match and list the record.
If Edwards rhetoric did NOT match his record, he needed to explain why. It is fair to mention them.

I don't think they used the word phony - but that is subjective and an opinion.

[jackson_dem]

30. When did his record get listed?

I posted three threads listing his six year record. Not a single swiftboater bothered to comment in them...

Whenever the swiftboaters brought up the five PRE-OBAMA bills flyspecked to attack him and Hillary it becomes obvious they have no clue about the bill in question and are merely parroting talking points. How many people know 47 or 49 Democrats, including Leahy, Kennedy, and Wellstone voted for No Child Left Behind along with evil Hillary and Edwards?

[karynnj]

42. I think I saw your posts and I believed commented on at least one

If the information on the 5 bills was truthful - there were NO lies - therefore it is not swiftboating. (In fact, Dean did mischaracterize Gephardt's healthcare record and that was not swiftboating, but typical politics.)

[jackson_dem]

43. Misleading information in and of itself isn't swiftboating

But they were used to swiftboat Edwards as a phony. They took his greatest strength and neutralized it, just as Rove did with Kerry.

Be honest. Did any of those posts or blogs ever mention the Patriot Act passed 98-1 and 47 of 49 Democrats voted for No Child? NONE of them did. Technically Edwards did "flip flop" but so did everyone else. He is a phony only if you think 95% of Democrats are.

[karynnj]

46. It was NOT like what Rove did to Kerry and it was NOT swiftboating

THe SBVT was a well funded conspiracy where a group of people made up lies and they were propagated by the echo chamber and parts of the media ignored the entire official record.

Pointing to votes is legitimate and happens in every election involving a legislator. As to the Patriot Act, I am proud of my post on the new and the original Patriot Acts - here is what I posted in several relevant threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4055743&mesg_id=4057479

It was a serious effort to explain what the bill was - I think the Senators voting for it both times did the right thing - given the alternatives.

I did not post on the NCLB because it is uninteresting - it is thought by nearly everyone to be a fiasco and nearly every Democrat voted for it. I think the excuse that it didn't work because it wasn't funded is a copout. The entire design is very flawed. My town has had several schools on the warning list because of the scores of special education classes - in spite of the fact that the most recent average SAT (with 94% of kids taking it) was 1116 (this was when there were 2 components).)

I really don't know if Edwards is a phony. I would tend to think that, while he might be an opportunist (as most politicians are), I doubt he is a phony on the issues most important to him. By that, I mean that he likely did choose some positions to create a profile that he thought could gain a sufficient base to win. There is a contrast between his centrist Senate record - which the first 4 years were and his 2004 positions versus the 2008 positions. In 2004, he spent much of February claiming Kerry's healthcare plan, which was far more extensive than his, was too expensive. He needed to somehow bridge those differences - rather than hope they wouldn't be noticed. (ie Katrina (or traveling the country in 2004) may me see the desperation.)

What I do think is that he did and does mean the things he said on poverty.

I still insist that there was no swiftboating as there were NO FACTUAL LIES.

[Hutzpa]

28. Zzzzzzzzz lol!

bwahahahaha! !

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Adelante]

38. Slippery tricks in Iowa using Edwards as a pawn

Some of the first negative mail in Iowa on the Democratic side is out, and it's anti-Obama. A new direct mail piece from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) accuses that: "For those without insurance, Barack Obama's band-aid solution is no change at all."

On the reverse side, the text of the mailer continues, arguing that Obama "claims his health care plan covers everyone, but his proposal does not match his words... Instead, Obama took the timid way out, offering yet another band-aid solution."

"Barack Obama's plan," it concludes, is just more of the same."

Here's the kicker, though: The piece quotes Edwards from a Sioux City Journal article in November saying that that "as many as 15 million Americans would be without coverage" under Obama's plan.

But, as it turns out, AFSCME is backing Clinton. In fact, even though Clinton and her campaign have been arguing for the past month that Obama's health-care plan doesn't insure everyone, Clinton's name isn't mentioned once on the flier. The Edwards quote makes it appear to be a slam by the Edwards team.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/19/526774.aspx

Edwards campaign responded:

"There have been a lot of misleading tactics and tricks in the last few weeks, but we've just never seen anything like this before. Either they are trying to trick people, or they've realized that on health care, John Edwards is the candidate who speaks honestly about what it really costs and what will be required to have truly universal coverage. He has led the debate on health care with the strongest, boldest plan that covers everyone and is paid for by repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

It's fine to have an honest debate about policy, but Iowans deserve better than planted questions and campaign fliers designed to fool them."

http://johnedwards.com/iowa/20071220-underhanded-trick/

[Unsane]

45. Back to hating on Obama again, huh?

You were decent there for a while, now you've gone back into your former anti-Obama mode. Disappointing.