The Cult Tag is both a Bum-Rap and a serious observation

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I have considered the deep-core support and the psychological methods of the Obama movement to be some sort of cult since last summer. I did not come to that conclusion because I don’t support Barack Obama. I don’t support Barack Obama primarily because I came to that conclusion.

I am sorry to see that the cult tag has become a partisan football. There are probably some Hillary die-hards who are throwing the word “cult” around as just the latest nasty thing to say.

But the fact that some may be disingenuous or under-informed has no effect on my personal sense, as a free-thinking individual, that the deep-core of the Obama movement is quasi-religious, paranoid and devoted to an individual, rather to a set of principles.

That does NOT mean that everyone who supports Obama is a cultist! And the cultish character of the Obama movement does not obligate anyone to vote against him.

ALL elections are about the lesser of two evils. I don't think Barack is a crazy cult-leader, I think he is a gifted politician using some effective, but somewhat dangerous techniques. If I believed that the Obama movement would defeat McCain and the Hillary campaign would lose to McCain then I would vote for Obama. (My distaste for the Obama movement is not decisive. My opposition is based on my analysis that a vague emotional movement is subject to catastrophic deflation when the media turns on it.)

The Reagan campaign in 1976 was cultish. It spurred the modern conservative movement, which was, and is, cultish. But most of the people who voted for Reagan in 1980 and 1984 were not cultists.

It is possible and even NECESSARY that we are able to talk about the nature of a political movement without implicating every individual supporter.

Some of us secularists know a lot about religious cults, personality cults, paranoiac political movements, televangelism, the “Revival” movement, and self-help cults. I would not throw the cult label around lightly, because my intellectual integrity is worth far more to me than whatever fun might be found in tossing brick-bats at people on the internet.

I would suggest that Obama supporters should not try to ironically “take ownership” of the cult label, because you are playing with fire. Even if you think the cult tag is silly and over-the-top, you are wrong to think others will view it that way. Whether or not the Obama movement is a cult, it has many cultish aspects and it’s foolish to essentially defy people to find anything cultish there. It is there to be found.

And for heaven’s sake, please stop saying, “I am not a cultist.” The statement contains no information whatsoever. 100% of non-cultists say they are not cultists and 100% of cultists say they are not cultists. (The first essential dogma of any cult is that it’s not a cult.)

And another point: When someone says the Obama campaign is a cult, and you take it personally, you are identifying as an individual with the Obama movement. Blurred identity between the movement and the individual follower is the heart of cult behavior.

I would suggest that Clinton supporters (or other Obama detractors) should not call everyone who supports Obama a cultist. They’re not. Some are, yes, but most are not. And using “cult” as a slur merely hardens attitudes and hurts people who are sincerely merely supporting a candidate, rather than following a messiah.

Anyone who has CHOSEN to adopt the cult meme as merely the latest spat talking point should knock it off.

But it is unreasonable to demand that people who sincerely see the Obama movement as uncomfortably religious and/or cultish, and have seen it as such for six months, long before it was ever noted in the press anywhere, to stop acknowledging what is right in front of their noses. For some of us it is not optional. It is a sociological observation of long-standing. The ugly fact that it has become a DU spit-wad can not change reality one way or another.

[Jed Dilligan]

1. blah blah blah cult cult cult nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

:hi:

[Jed Dilligan]

5. Writing down more of it

doesn't make it less bullshit.

[blm]

18. Cult of Closed Government is a TRULY serious matter that has had TRAGIC consequences

for this nation.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Yet the faithful can't see that and want MORE CLOSED GOVERNMENT.

[Neecy]

2. another cult lecture from someone w/a hidden profile

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. Thanks for the thoughful reply!

:hi:

[Neecy]

8. okay, here's one - it's bullshit

And another point: When someone says the Obama campaign is a cult, and you take it personally, you are identifying as an individual with the Obama movement. Blurred identity between the movement and the individual follower is the heart of cult behavior.

So - if I came to a rational decision to support Obama, based on his positions, I'm not supposed to ever take offense at the cult smears because by doing so it actually establishes me as a cult member? We're all just supposed to shut up and take these smears or risk being branded a 'cultist' by an idiot like you?

I just shake my head at the stupidity...

[K Gardner]

6. Unfucking believable. And from K&H of all people. Now we're in the "I'm concerned about the cult

and here's how you should handle it" phase.

[smiley_glad_hands]

7. It has been my observation also.

I couldn't lay out my rationale on Obama and his movement any better.

I'm just chalking it up to the fact that there are people out there who need to feel this way about their candidate. It sorta fills a need in their lives or something like that. People take this kind of stuff seriously and can get defensive quickly. I guess Obama does it for them this way, he is inspirational. I just hope it translates to a win in November.

That being said, I am voting for him Tuesday.

On edit: The Obama campaign should be happy that this is happening now and not in the general. They've got the money to get past this.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. I applaud you for your vote

There is at least a 50-50 chance I will be voting for Senator Obama soon enough. I will have no trouble whatsoever voting for him in November.

[tridim]

9. It's a campaign, not a cult.

If you were an adult you'd understand that.

You're ruining DU.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. The cult accusation makes people look really stupid.

Some of us are going to be able to make it through the primaries, regardless of the outcome, with are dignity intact.

The people talking about "cults" won't be among us.

[VolcanoJen]

14. It's nothing but a defensive measure, and should be summarily dismissed.

When campaigns are desperate, campaigns float memes against their more successful opponent and that opponent's supporters.

This particular meme has tapped into Obama's unprecedented youth support and enthusiasm, and seeks to bring said positive aspects down. Again, it's a desperate measure, and more than a little depressing as a tactic.

Of course I'm insulted when someone accuses me, an Obama supporter, of being in a "cult." Because, those people are trying to undermine my intelligence, and in doing so, really only highlight their lack thereof.

[Lerkfish]

11. synchronize your Clinton campaign smear decoder ring: today its' "cult"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4477235&mesg_id=4477235

[rodeodance]

12. Just my own observation but I think newspapers--the Sacremental Bee as the

first newspaper to report (prob. others but this on made the biggest impact) what was 'out there". The Bee focused on a training sessions at a Obama campaign place in CA.
Next thing i knew, nytimes, Uk quardian, La times all had a story on this.
To me it did not come from on "top"--a conspiracy by the Hilliary mark Penn team--(I saw so many posts yesterday about this it just was sickening!!).

[Tennessee Gal]

13. Your post is very thoughtful and logical.

I see it as you do.

[goldcanyonaz]

15. Many of us have been saying this for months. Othes are finally seeing it as well.

[Unsane]

16. Utter tripe.

[Tennessee Gal]

26. tripe.

In South Carolina, Obama said this:
"At some point in the evening, a light is going to shine down and you will have an epiphany and you'll say, `I have to vote for Barack!'"

[greguganus]

19. Thank you Dr. Laura. n/t

[cali]

20. Actually, it's not.

You demonstrate that you don't understand what a cult is when you write such stuff.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. Your sig grows more ironic by the day

It was already ironic, since the poem quoted is a critique of the political left and of secularism, but it becomes ever more so.

[cali]

31. Is that it? That's all you have?

Sad. Actually, it's much more than a critique of the political left or secularism- it's an observation about human nature and the pitfalls of passionate belief without the leavening of reason.

Here's the real thing. Any political campaign at this level attracts people who don't really grasp why they're so passionate about the candidate. But cults themselves aren't cults without certain things in place. And they aren't there in this particular campaign.

I'm not someone who doesn't see flaws in Obama and who doesn't disagree with him on an array of issues. I've written about that repeatedly. Furthermore, I'll certainly vote for Clinton if she's the nominee, no matter how that comes about. None of that belies my tag line.

You're simply wrong and quite defensive.

[cooolandrew]

21. The fact you are using the word so many times is probably more sinister...

...So it's fine to upset kids with all this talk and run them away from the process. Obssessive may of been a more subtle wording. Cults are dangerous things Barack is getting involved in their own process which is only a good thing.

[jonnyblitz]

22. "A vague emotional movement" as a description is perfect.

Yours is a good post. :thumbsup: I am reluctant to call many DU Obama supporters that I know and like cultists. I know at least a few of them are "anybody but Hillary" types which I am sympathetic to on some level. I just happen to be "anybody but Obama".

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

27. It is wrong to call people cultists

I have done it, in piqued moments, and I regret it.

There is a world of difference between attacking an individual and criticizing an abstract entity.

I wish people would stop doing the former, and stop attacking others for doing the later.

[CyberPieHole]

24. The "reasoned" responses by the Obama people on this thread speak for themselves.

The "cult" assignation came because of Obama's "evangelical" posturing.



Obama reaps what he sows.

[durrrty libby]

25. K for later

[cooolandrew]

28. Move to positivity move to light that is enlightenment, can't see theligt in that post.

The founding fathers form the age of the enlightenment.

[cooolandrew]

30. It's time to put all of these posts on ignore, then we can get back to a regular board.

[CyberPieHole]

33. You talk to yourself....

why am I not surprised?:shrug:

Thanks for providing proof for the OP.

[ProgressIn2008]

29. This is fair -- good point. There is a certain measure

of partisan football at play, but faux outrage is generally easy to spot. On the other hand, there are those of us who have been genuinely uncomfortable with the Obama Movement for some time now, and are not saying that to score political points. Moreover, the focus on the phenom of the Obama campaign itself is increasingly marginalizing the issues that, for some of us, provide the hope.

There are aspects of self-help and charismatic/religious movements here, but as I said elsewhere, it would actually be quite easy to shut those concerns down. Problem is, I'm not sure if that will happen.

In any case, thoughtful points. It will be interesting to see how this evolves.

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. One more asshole for the ignore list

Fuck off.

[Josiah1982]

34. some of the posts from the cultists here are really creepy

[sofeisty]

35. Outstanding observations and one that more and more people are making.

Thanks.

I suspect this observation of the Obama campaign will only increase. And I'm not talking on this board but in the media in general. I actually would not be surprised to see Dan Abrams start doing stories on this issue.