As someone who regularly called Dean supporters "kool aid drinkers" in 2004

[wndycty]

I understand very much the motivations of those wanting to call Obama supporters a cult. You want to hurt, demoralize and marginalize us. It comes from a place of envy and jealousy.

Back in 2004 I had legitimate concerns about the cult-like support that Howard Dean got, but my choice of words in calling Dean's supporters "kool aid drinkers" was all about me being mean and vindictive. My candidate at the time, Wes Clark, was good, very good and had passionate supporters, but not the same way Dean did.

At times I share the concern that some of my fellow Obama supporters do behave like they are in a cult, but that is par for the course for any candidate who has passionate supporters. I'm sure Hillary has her share of passionate supporters as well.

Back in 2004 I got more than a few threads locked for my use of "cult" and "kool aid drinkers" and I deserved it.

Obama supporters, as one who has resorted to these tactics in the past, don't worry for this current meme is driven by fear and insecurity.

[K Gardner]

1. Then why are the posts not getting locked now? Why are the mods silent? This is not harmless. It

could have long-term effects on our candidates and party. I'd just as soon see DU shut down as to have it turned into a base of RW Propaganda. Other memes have come and gone. This is virulent and spreading.

[wndycty]

3. Not sure why they are not being locked. . .

. . .I guess its because the media is saying similar things. Whenever I would use "cult" or "kool aid drinkers" my threads would get locked as flamebait and I was lectured and condemned by a bunch of DUers.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Because they're no worse

than the thousands of stupid smears posted against Clinton in the last few months.

No one candidate deserves special protection.

[faithfulcitizen]

14. Wondering that myself! The mods didn't used to let flamebait run this rampant. It's awful.

[wndycty]

21. I can understand that things have loosened up since then

:kick:

[Enrique]

2. are you doing anything now you will regret later?

[wndycty]

4. Not sure. . .

. . .I have been very soft Hillary. I liked her and Bill and my only gripes with them are the tactics she and her supporters have used on Obama. I'm very mindful that she may be our nominee and I don't want to contribute too much to any negative impressions folks have of her. I have gotten into some major battles this primary season but my stance has almost always been a defensive one in response to what I perceived to be attacks on Obama.

[Zenlitened]

5. "I had legitimate concerns about the cult-like support that Howard Dean got"

Legitimate? Says who? :shrug:

[wndycty]

7. Not trying to refight 2004 but the inability of some Dean supporters to accept any. . .

. . .criticism of Dean was very troubling as is the inability of some Obama or Clinton supporters to do the same.

[Straight Shooter]

10. I accepted criticism of Dean, but I took it with a grain of salt, depending on the source.

It's odd, but I was here during that campaign season and I honestly don't remember any "cult" or "kool aid" references. Perhaps because there was no substance to it, or I'm so inured to insults that it didn't matter.

Maybe if Dean had been more slickly manufactured, with the power of the Internet as it stands today whereas it didn't back then, perhaps then there might have been something to a "cult" accusation, if he had had celebrity-studded rallies and big-time talk show hosts promoting him, and people chanting 3-word empty slogans en masse. Dean was always willing to admit that he could be wrong, though.

On comparisons, though, let's remember that basically the media killed Dean's campaign by mocking him. They killed Edwards' campaign by marginalizing him.

[wndycty]

11. Those threads were immediately locked and posters, myself included, were. . .

. . .condemned by a ton of DUers.

[Straight Shooter]

23. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I remember it was an ugly time, but I just figured that was the way things were with a bunch of anonymous people posting. That's why I was hesitant to get back in this year, but what he heck, for every person who insults, there's someone who offers information. It's a wash.

[Zenlitened]

15. Well, on that we can agree. There are some uber-supporters on every side...

... and in every campaign... who take an all-or-nothing view of their candidates that just doesn't seem healthy, IMO.

But I don't think that's a function of any one candidate more so than these supporters' personalities.

At any rate... although the uber-supporters seem to shriek the loudest, I do think they're in the minority. At least I hope so!

:)

[russian33]

6. no, i respectuflly disagree

i have no envy or jealousy...i will vote for Obama in November, if I have to

but i've seen the personality cults before, i was born and grew up in former USSR
and that's what worries me...when i ask friends why you support Obama, and get back "he brings hope and change", "he's like JFK"...i ask for more specifics, and get "oh come on, have you heard him speak?"

yes, i have, at the convention...and i was blown away! and i said, in 10-15 years, he would make a great president! but a blind following of a passionate speaker worries me...to be a supporter because he is a great speaker or because it's the cool thing to do (and i'm not saying that's your reasons), is scary, when that person is trying to become a President of USA

and my main concern with all this, not envy, not jealousy, is the future of my new home...his electability and his ability to lead the country worry me..i don't think he's ready, i think he'll be a perfect candidate next time around

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. I opposed calling Deanies cultists when I was a Clarkie then

and I oppose calling Obama supporters cultists now (when others call me a Hillbot).

[madfloridian]

12. Tom, the voice of common sense.

Thanks.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. Thank you MF. The wave of new energy Dean brought into our Party in 2004

has been a great lasting good, and I think the same will be true for the energy Obama is bringing into our Party now. I hope a lot of his new supporters join DFA :)

[faithfulcitizen]

16. Me too. I understood why the "Deaniacs" were so fired up. Would never have dismissed them as a cult.

I just happened to disagree that he was the best candidate. The same way I feel about Hillary now. :)

[incapsulated]

13. "Mean and vindictive"? (I was here in 2004, too.)

And the shit flung at Hillary here is roses and rainbows?

You know what the big difference is between the "Deanaics" and the cult of O?

Dean had something to SAY.

I often fought with and disliked the fervor nearing fanatical attitude some of the Dean supporters had.

But at least their slogan *meant* something. It was about taking back the party, the power of the grassroots, returning to the base.

What is so disturbing about Obama zealots is the lack of any substantive message beyond single words like "Hope" and "Change". Change to what? Hope for what?

The reason Clarkies were called brainwashed was frankly because we were always on message and did our damndist to defend him with SUBSTANCE whenever he was criticised, which was all the time.

We did not chant slogans or phrases, we annoyed the shit out of people arguing positions and history and what Clark stood for. We were relentless and if that made us zealots so be it, but there was a *reason* just like the Dean supporters had a *reason* to support him, they believed the Party needed to be fundamentally changed to reflect the people and not the power brokers.

Now I am told if I'm not for Obama I'm cynical, against hope, old, against some nebulous "change".

It's the same kind of "why do you hate America" garbage.

And the same kind of black and white thinking.

[OzarkDem]

18. Shoe...other foot... etc, etc.

[wndycty]

20. Yeah, the shoe is on the other foot. . .

. . .and I acknowledged my behavior. I could have just kept quiet and just tried to act like I was offended about the cult meme without owning up to my actions. Would that have been better?

[robbedvoter]

19. I also called them that - not being jealous but observant. And they were a 10th of the

intensity of what's going on now - because the MSM gave them much shorter - far less intensive honeymoon.
They (Deanies) alienated people - at the Florida convention, Iowa caucus - with their arrogant, aggressive ways.

Not unlike the Obama people with their "Your candidate hurts? We'll send more money to ours" threads yesterday - fueled a fund raising that overtook theirs (I never planned to give money to Hillary)

I don't think I was being mean and vindictive in 2004- I was quite proud of the Clarkies as savvy, passionate activists who drafted a great candidate. Still am, BTW, no matter where they are now.

[formernaderite]

22. i too hope the obama people ignore the reaction

from the hillbots. I was a Deaniac in 2004. My kids are all obamiacs...so I understand what's going on...they're actually passionate about their candidate. I've been supporting edwards, but admit their enthusiasm for obama has rubbed off. What hillary's supporters don't get is the degree of love and admiration obama's fans have for him. Admiration alone will only get a candidate so far.

[thoughtcrime1984]

24. They want us painted as young, naive, followers

Where they are pragmatic, independent thinkers. We are uppity, they are for the common folk, we are a cult, they are supporters. I may need to take a nice hiatus from here, as it is getting more unreadable by the day. I am influencing as many people as I can in my area to vote for the candidate that will better represent the people in the WH- Barack Obama. In it for America, not just in it to win it.

[Ellen Forradalom]

25. You felt that way because your neighborhood Deaniacs

took over your favorite bar :-)

Wes Clark rocked and still does.

[robbedvoter]

26. True dat about Clark. And I felt it when 2 Deaniacs hovered and mocked me

for more than an hour - in a freezing day -- when I was trying to get signatures to put Clark on the ballot. They had a field day every time someone would refuse to sign.
In the end I reminded them that one way or another we'd end up being on the same side, so making enemies out of Clarkies is not wise. They left. The real life incident made the internet bullying just so much more real.
Again, I am not sure if, by some miracle, MSM would start giving Hillary some support instead of Obama - if that wouldn't turn us into obnoxious jerks.
There was once a movie called The Wave - an experiment in dominant/dominated groups in society
Based on a real incident at an American high school in 1967, this short TV movie shows the horror of mob psychology and group pressure. The high school teacher gives his students a lesson in the history of Nazi Germany, not by having them read a chapter in a book but by turning them into Nazis -- without their even being aware that it is happening."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083316/
http://www.thewave.tk/
It's all done by reinforcing the idea that one group is superior to the other - which is what the media does. It enhances aggression in the validated group.(in the movie, they separated people into 2 groups based on eye color.
Another synopsis:
Frustrated because his students evince a lack of interest in and comprehension of Adolf Hitler's rise to power in the 1930s, Ross decides to stage a dramatic "social experiment." He indoctrinates his unwitting charges in a radical new movement called "The Wave," which he claims will give them "a feeling you're part of something that's more important than yourself." Part and parcel of The Wave is a strict set of social-behavior guidelines, unquestioning loyalty to the cause, and an open contempt for those "inferiors" who have not been invited to join the movement. Not unexpectedly, The Wave gets out of hand, and soon the entire school is held in the thrall of a frightening new form of neo-fascism. Just when the experiment threatens to go too far, Ross shocks his students back to their senses by running newsreel footage of The Wave's "true leader" (guess who!).

Mind you, I am not saying here that any Dem candidate is a Nazi.
I am however saying that the media is playing us - one group against the other by doing what the experiment did - proclaiming that some of us are superior and some inferior.