Why do some people here HATE the fact that Obama inspires people?

[NightWatcher]

Would you also be standing by and yelling your chorus of boos to JFK's "ask not......", would you also stand in the National Mall booing "I have a dream...."?

I'm not equating Obama with JFK or MLK but all three of these guys are trying to inspire hope and change.

If you wanna stand on the sidelines and piss and moan feel free, but stop trying to rain on my parade.

[TexasObserver]

1. Miserable people love being miserable.

[Barack_America]

2. Easy. Because their candidate of choice doesn't.

Or they have very little faith in what an engaged and informed electorate can accomplish in a Democracy.

Or both.

I don't know. I personally like seeing Americans excited by and interested in politics and policy.

[Marie26]

3. I just hate hope & change.

And puppies, especially puppies.

[ProgressIn2008]

25. Ha! I know, I particularly hate the puppies.

Question: how do you feel about rainbows? Ponies?

[Marie26]

38. A kindred spirit!

I am generally pro-rainbow and pro-pony. I loved My Little Ponies as a kid and dressed up as Rainbow Brite for Halloween - but I outgrew it at about 12.

[TexasObserver]

43. My oldest son had a Rainbow Bright, and I recall watching ...

... the most hideous animated feature ever, My Little Pony and the Purple Glop (or something like that). OMG, it was the most boring animated feature ever.

Skeletor, He Man, She Ra? Now there's some animation you can believe in. And Smurfs. Lots of smurfs. And Transformers. And ThunderCats!!

[Jim Sagle]

48. And the optimism has GOT to go. "No we can't" is the new mantra.

;)

[BridgeTheGap]

4. Because it means Obama could win and that seems to irk some people

but so many people are now looking for real change and real leaders.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. i think its great he inspires people.

[BooScout]

6. Because you're so damned obnoxious about it

Talk about pissing and moaning. :eyes:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. I would have booed JFK and applauded MLK

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask rather what you can do for your country" is one of the most disgusting things a politician has ever said.

America was designed so that the nation exists only to benefit the citizen. This is a nation of individuals with inalienable rights, not a hive.

MLK's "I have a dream" speech is beautiful and important. And about human rights, not the rights of an abstract entity to demand fealty from individual humans.

[damonm]

15. Boy, did YOU miss the point...

...by a country mile.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

22. Honestly, K&H, I always took JFK's line to mean >

> essentially "ask rather what you can do for your fellow countrymen." Or "ask not 'where's mine', ask rather 'what can we do to improve each other's lives.' Maybe I just heard what I wanted to hear.

[Benhurst]

31. I've wished that were true, too.

JFK was a Cold War warrior. Remember the missile gap? Supposedly Eisenhower had left us militarily unprepared. (It turned out to have been untrue.)

No, I fear "Ask not" has more in common with the super-nationalism of "Deutschland über alles" than the sentiments we wish it extolled.

[goodgd_yall]

59. I think of it as a call to provide service

be active---the Peace Corps and Vista, I thought were supposed to be results of this call to action.

However, looking back at the Kennedy administration in terms of its foreign policy, it's easier to see it in a more cynical, possibly even more honest, way.

[Mz Pip]

8. It's intellectually lazy

It's much easier to toss around hyperbole and lame names than admit that there is real validity to the appeal of Obama.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[niceypoo]

17. It's intellectually lazy

To toss around emotional memes like 'Hope' and 'Inspiration' rather than discussing things that actually matter, like policy

[Mz Pip]

27. That's not all that

is being tossed around. BUt since that's all you hear, then that's all you've got.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

56. It's also intellectually lazy

To toss around the unfounded meme that Obama doesn't discuss policy, simply because he doesn't bore the crap out of audiences with it in his stump speeches. There are reams of information available to you about specific policy plans he has, if you will bother yourself to find them.

[Whisp]

9. those run down tactics are coming directly from Mark Pig Penn.

great 'representative' he is.

[fascisthunter]

10. Ignore It as Jealousy

don't play into their garbage.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Hope is too small a frame for the discussion we need to have

I believe in hope and inspiration is important.

Hope, like promise, is a positive word with a real and tangible meaning. But a promise made is not a promise delivered.

All of us have credit ratings being compiled on us. When we borrow money we promise to pay it back. Those who can show a good likelihood of following through on that promise are given loans at a lower interest than those who do not have as solid a track record at keeping their promise.

Clinton is NOT campaigning against hope. Yeah I know how a somewhat clumsy phrase she uttered gave rise to that meme but it is a false one none the less and if you listen to much of Hillary at all that is abundantly clear.

Let me be clear. I am not someone who argues that Obama can not fulfill the hopes he is raising. I believe he is sincere, and I believe that the power to inspire has practical advantages when it comes time to deliver the goods. But the fact that Obama is sincere and may be able to deliver the goods doesn't throw me to the opposite pole from cynicism either. I do question his actual ability to fundamentally deliver, and in so questioning I am not slamming hope per se.

We recently experienced real change in America. We recently were given fresh leadership. We recently shook off an extended period of the status quo. We did that in 2000 by "electing" George W. Bush President. Change is a value neutral word. A pendulum is continually changing direction. Symbolically the Obama campaign just pulled a massive "back to the future" move by embracing the legacy of America's camelot. Talk about retro.

If you listen to Hillary Clinton's message you will find that it too is full of hope. Her specifics driven approach to discussing problems facing American gives some of us more hope that she actually knows how to go about bringing about the changes that we actually need than some of the more inspiring rhetoric that we get from Barack Obama gives us. A lot of it is in perceptions. We have two candidates who are hopeful. We have two candidates fighting for positive change and a new era in America and the world.

[Barack_America]

18. But doesn't it get people reengaged in the discussion?

And isn't that the first step?

People act like Obama goes on stage and repeats the words "Hope" and "Change" for 30 minutes. That's not the case, he lays out specific policies that he wants to change. Sure, the details in "how" are lacking, but that's true for all politicians. People don't go to rallies to crunch numbers, they go to try to find out what the candidate is all about and become inspired to vote for them.

I've listened to Obama's stump speeches as well as Clinton's. To be honest, I don't hear much of a difference, substance wise.

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. It can be and should be a first step

And most of the time I believe many more equally important steps follow. Sometimes it doesn't and that is sort of a shame because realizing hopes takes a lot of hard gritty work as well as a lofty vision. Again, I am not suggesting that Obama or those who are drawn toward him are incapable of doing that work effectively. I will never come out against hope, I was just explaining how some people who also are drawn toward hope may not primarily be drawn toward Obama as their first choice for the Democratic nomination.

The policies and approaches that both Obama and Clinton favor are not that different, I agree fully with you on that.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

19. I'm sorry but there's just no place on this forum for this sort of cool-headed posting.

Get back in the mud with the rest of us!

:)

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. LOL. Thanks n/t

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. Some of us just think it's amusing that a normal, pandering dishonest politician inspires

[Dogmudgeon]

13. "They hate us for our Freedom"

Remember that one?

--p!

[incapsulated]

14. Because we hate hope and love and rainbows and kittens.

And America.

[JackORoses]

16. They Fear Change. They want to go back to what they know.

The wheel is turning and you can't slow down
You can't let go and you can't hold on
You can't go back and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will!

[NightWatcher]

24. every time that wheel turn 'round, we're bound to cover just a little more ground

did you catch the stream of the Deadheads for Obama show, pretty good stuff

[KittyWampus]

35. The Wheel! My favorite Jerry song

:)

[JackORoses]

39. I was there at the Warfield. It was great!

[ShortnFiery]

20. Because Bill Clinton's mighty DLC Machine cronies will not allow it!

The DLC that Bill Clinton built is "all about" making the RICH - RICHER and the POOR - POORER. Bill, et.al., has made a shit-load of promises to Party Officials and Super Delegates.

THE CLINTONS WILL NOT BE DENIED JUST BECAUSE US "LITTLE PEOPLE" MAY VOTE TO THE CONTRARY. :nuke:

[Marrah_G]

21. I don't care if he inspires you.

He doesn't inspire me.

This is what the primaries are for.

Find the person that inspires you and vote for them.

[TooBigaTent]

23. While I understand the enthusiasm felt by those who like Obama - I can

remember feeling the same way about RFK as a young person - it appears to me from the (too) many posts on this topic that many who object to the inspiration (labeled as cultism) are fearful that the enthusiasm is all there is. By that, I mean they feel it is not backed up by sufficient, specific policy stances.

In particular, the fear may be that the "cult of personality" is in service to someone who is not a liberal/progressive warrior but rather, someone who is too fixated on winning (even if it is for the expressed reason of "change") at the expense of espousing what many see as a needed radical reorientation to the left. Enthusiastic support for change that will (in their opinion) only marginally reverse the rightward movement of the nation) not do much to rescue the nation is suspicious to some.

Those distrustful of Obama (I include myself, though my doubts are not really distrust but rather disappointment in his conservative orientation) point to a lackluster Senate (Ill. and US) record. It does seem that his main goal has been to move up the political ladder (state senate to US Senate to White House) - he has been running for higher office since being elected to the Illinois Senate.

So, the anger at his non-liberal political stances gets turned on his supporters who do seem somewhat "star-struck" because so much more could have been presented by his candidacy. A firebrand liberal who would really fight the corporate interests (not Edwards if that is what you are thinking) would be someone that we old Democrats really would have liked to see. DK had the positions but for many reasons was rejected by most Democrats. Instead, we get a charasmatic corporatist who we do not believe will change things enough. After more than 25 years of right-wing rule, we were hoping for much, much more.

[susanr516]

51. What TooBigaTent said. n/t

[goodgd_yall]

60. Another good post. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

26. Fear and desperation

Recently there was thread that included some free-republic comments regarding Obama. In it the freepers were totally freaking and admitting that Obama would mop the floor with McCain. The Hill Folk sense this too, so they do everything in their power to disparage him. It's that simple.

[TheDeathadder]

29. give me a break

this is such a factless post. nobody hates Obama for his speeches. The question is why do Obama people hate that no everybody is inspired by him. Just because you don't follow or vote for Obama you have hate for him? Not to mention there's plenty of Obama people carrying hate for other candidates on their back. There's no point in judging the many by the few.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. that isn't it at all.My god haven't you been listening or are you blinded with so much hate for Hill

Clinton you would know that.

[burythehatchet]

33. Because their candidate couldn't inspire a drunk to take a piss.

[Stephanie]

34. Because that's all they've got to use against him.

If they had something better, they would use it.

[joshcryer]

36. Hmm, I don't hate Obama. I am merely concerned about his inferior policies.

But I can never get people to talk policy, because they're to captivated by personality perceptions. I mean, consider, one of the most ardently spoken things here is that "Hillary is universially hated."

If our President is going to be someone who is "loved," then, I don't know what to say.

[Jed Dilligan]

37. Not being inspired by Hillary is seen as a character flaw by her supporters.

[LulaMay]

40. This is what is wearing thin on people:

Obama speech today;

"Early in this campaign, I got in an argument with Sen. Clinton because I said I would meet not just with our friends, but with our enemies. Not just with leaders we like, but leaders we detested and despised. And I was told, 'oh no, you can't do that.' And I said, 'watch me.' Because I remember what John F. Kennedy said. He said, 'you should never negotiate out of fear, but you should never fear to negotiate.'"

[sandnsea]

44. What's wrong with that

She did ridicule him for saying he would meet with leaders, friend or foe. She thought it was going to be a knock out blow exposing his naivete. Turns out the American people want a leader who will stop demonizing every leader around the world and get serious about solving differences.

:shrug:

[busymom]

45. it doesn't make a lot of sense, actually.

He just snagged an opportunity to bring up JFK. That's what is so annoying.

Look at me...I'm JFK ... the sequel...

[sfam]

41. Hope...is a terrible thing to taste...

We as democrats should work hard to ensure nobody is forced to take in too much hope. We never know would would happen to the country if hope-mongers ran rampant, spreading their creepiness everywhere. The consequences could be...well..cult-like!!!!

Down with hope...Horaaaaay incrementalism!!!

[busymom]

42. To me....he seems a little disingenuous...

He talks the talk, but...unlike JFK, he seems to do a lot of sneering and....seems arrogant....I think this is part of what turns me off. At one time, really liked him and was on the fence...but there were these little moments that made me sort of sit back and wonder if it was all for real or not.

Actually...I just put my finger on it. I'm a good Lutheran girl. When I moved to TX (the heart of the bible belt, it seemed) every baptist friend that I had tried to bring me to their churches to get saved. My baptism as a baby wasn't enough. I was supposed to run crying down a field to a youth pastor after listening to an inspiring speech and cry and give my heart to Jesus again. It freaked me out.

The Obama thing reminds me of this in a non-religious way.

I have hope. I believe that we, as individuals create change each day by how we interact with each other and reach out to those around us. I don't need a politician to deliver hope to me. I just want them to get to work on the issues that are important to me. That is what provides me with a feeling that things will change.

[sandnsea]

46. It won't happen without the entire country

You can't just send him off to do the work, like a nice Lutheran girl sends the missionaries off to do all the hard work all around the country.

We have to get dirty, do the helping ourselves. That's something Baptists know, maybe the only thing they know.

[Qanisqineq]

47. I so completely agree

My sisters and I were raised Lutheran. When one of my sisters became a born-again Christian, it really creeped me out with exactly all that stuff you describe.

Every word you wrote is exactly how I how feel, too.

[angie_love]

50. Out of curiousity are you older? 50-60s?

I think alot if it is generational thing. There are lots of Obama supporters who are older but they are more generally open minded, they were probably the ones who were at the forefront of movements such as civil rights, womens rights, etc. I think its harder for someone from a different generation to accept Obama, mostly they see him as this naive young kid. They are somewhat afraid of change, afraid to take a chance. They don't see how electing Obama could be a powerful symbol of change, to move beyond race and show the rest of the world how we've grown up *esp from Bush*. In my generation, we tend not to see race as we grew up in a more culturally diverse environment.

[goodgd_yall]

57. I think it may be a generational thing but in a different way

And, let me say, many who support Clinton have been on the forefront of change---pro-civil rights, pro-women's rights. Some of the good things you can enjoy now were fought for by the 50-60 age group.

I think Obama's style and age makes him naturally more attractive to young voters. Hillary might remind them more of their mom. But that is very superficial thing to base support on.

[goodgd_yall]

54. good post

I especially appreciate your last paragraph.

I have been finding myself more wary of Obama, though there was a time I was leaning toward him (before the McCurkin incident). I've been noticing recently the sameness of his speeches and how he seems to be going for the lines he knows are going to get the big cheers. It's getting to sound manipulative to me.

[ClericJohnPreston]

49. First

your inane post manages to mangle rational thought in preference to a push poll question. It is riddled with fallacious reasoning. It makes a false comparison, while decrying it doesn't. It drips with irony that you lament critical appraisal of Obama, while thrusting your post on those of us who don't share your neophyte opinion, begging for a response, and then trying to preemptively chill criticism.

All in all, a typical look into the scary "logic" that is Obamination.

[Altec]

52. I love that he inspires people, but...

Obama spouts change without showing that he has the means to do it, or display what he actually means...

[ClericJohnPreston]

53. Which is why this thread, his supporters

and his candidacy, all share non-relevance.

[Darth_Kitten]

55. Inspires them to do WHAT?

I personally don't give a shit if some candidate gives somebody that kinda warm and fuzzy like feeling. :sarcasm:

Maybe people, by and large, don't DESERVE to feel so happy, comfortable and satisfied all the time? The world's imploding, what are you doing about it? Feeling cheery?

[yardwork]

58. I think it's very destructive for Democrats to attack other Democrats. Period.

I say this as a Hillary supporter. We need to debate the issues and encourage all Democratic candidates to strengthen their positions and hone their arguments so that our party can win in November.

Attacking one another and Democratic candidates is horrible and destructive. Anyone doing it should be ashamed of themselves. And don't tell me that "it's only the Hillary supporters doing it" because it's not.

[blues90]

61. Why the choice of the word HATE ?

Perhaps it's suspician and questioning things which is what everyone should do no matter who they support .

[Riley133]

62. To answer your question since you asked.....

I don't think there is anyone of any persuasion or political party who can deny or would deny Barack Obama is a powerful speaker - because he is, and that's 100% a fact. How many times have we heard it? Too many to count!

BUT...look at the two letters at the end of this link:

http://letters.salon.com/tech/machinist/blog/2008/02/07/obama_valley/view/index2.html

That pretty much sums it up for me. I'm not saying HRC's actions are perfect. Neither of the two are of my personal choosing.

I don't hate the fact that he inspires people. I just need to have a better idea of where everybody's heading.

[Joe Chi Minh]

63. 'Cuz they hates Amurrka, I guess. Same danged thing.