Hillary to Seattle: I Can't Win Tomorrow Because it is a Caucus. It's Not a Primary Where You Can

[K Gardner]

Vote All Day.

She complained because she had just spoken to three nurses who couldn't get off work. Just prior, she made sure she told the audience that she'd had to lend her campaign $5 million of her own money.

Lowering expectations begins.. along with a healthy dose of outrage and pity, right on schedule. I am sick of this. Can she EVER run a race on its merits.. on hers? Without the bullshit?

[BeyondGeography]

1. And, by the way, did you hear what David Shuster said about Chelsea?

[K Gardner]

6. No ! Did David Shuster saying something about Chelsea??

[skipos]

2. Did she cry? Her focus groups and analysts have found tears to be very effective

for her.

[rodeodance]

64. no one knows. The Obama Swoon Patrol only works for obama. sad sad

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Can You Ever Say Anything Positive About Your Candidate And Not Take Rhetorical Dumps On Hillary?

~

[K Gardner]

9. I do say positive things about Obama daily. And I get dumped on daily and called cultist

and "vapid and empty" by Hillary supporters. This is the first post I've started today.

I also respond to posts I agree with. I also respond to slams on Obama with ferocity, because I. Am. Sick. Of. It.

[ruggerson]

27. What about legitimate concerns about Obama?

are those out of line too?

[rodeodance]

66. Both obama and clinton have been critical of the caucus model.

[joshcryer]

4. Caucuses are not representitive of the poor working class individuals.

Who's going to take off work or who can afford to take off work when they live by the paycheck? Not many.

It's true, Hillary does better with working class individuals. Obama does better with yuppies who can go to those caucuses and make stuff happen.

[shaniqua6392]

You are absolutely right on that one!!

That is why they have favored Obama. Most of us can not afford to lose a days pay to caucus. I could not do it. I do not get paid days off at all. If I don't work, I don't get paid.

[joshcryer]

19. And when your paycheck is down to the penny for monthly bills, you're not likely to vote...

...in a caucus.

[shaniqua6392]

31. Even if I actually had a day off, which is a rarity

since I work seven days a week, I would probably sleep. I am so behind on sleep that if I held still for a minute, I would doze off and miss the caucus!! LOL!!!

[joshcryer]

37. Working class individuals don't put politics above their life, a simple ballot to punch is a lot...

...more convenient than having to be at a certain place at a certain time to speak ones will.

[rodeodance]

67. right on.

[Madam Mossfern]

44. I took a vacation day to attend an Obama rally

Yeah, I'm a working schlub who supports him.

[joshcryer]

46. How many people can take vacation days? It's just mathematically impossible to represent everyone.

I don't see how your comment is relevant. If you take a vacation day, someone else has to be called in.

[BlackVelvet04]

86. and your point is?

Not everyone has vacation time to take off. consider yourself blessed.

[Madam Mossfern]

108. Yes, I am blessed.

But if there was no way for me to take the day off I would try real hard to find someone to attend who had similar leanings that was not planning attending. What percentage of the eligible voters actually participate in the caucuses?

[BlackVelvet04]

117. I don't know. n/t

[thoughtcrime1984]

49. Isn't there a law that requires employers to let you vote?

Would missing 1-2 hours kill you? Or is the right to vote not that important?

[joshcryer]

53. No, I doubt it.

Stores couldn't function if everyone left them during that 1 hour timeframe that most caucuses are open. The time you must invest is longer than that 1 hour timeframe becaus you have to leave, stand in line, get told how things work, etc.

[thoughtcrime1984]

56. Hi Ignored!

Can't hear ya! :shrug:

[joshcryer]

68. I'm ignored?

:rofl:

[Debi]

120. You're not ignored - the poster wouldn't be able to respond to your post if you were on ignore

:eyes: Somebody isn't being truthful....

[thoughtcrime1984]

129. I responded to my own post!

Get it? :eyes: They are ignored, it says so.

[HeraldSquare212]

107. There is in NY state - paid time off

up to two hours at the end or beginning of your shift, if you don't have adequate time to vote otherwise. Adequate time to vote is defined as four hours. So, you take two hours on your own time and he employer has to pay two hours. NY is not a caucus state, but if it were that would have to be modified given that some of the caucuses happen in the middle of the day.

[rateyes]

22. Why does Obama do better with

"yuppies?"

And, is there anything wrong with being a young, up and coming, professional?

[joshcryer]

28. Of course there's nothing wrong with it. The question is whether or not it's representitive.

It's not. The people who have money will be able to go to a caucus easier. This is indisputable.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people being able to vote.

I'm saying there's something wrong with people not being able to vote because the system is catered toward elites.

[rateyes]

59. Elites?

The caucus format probably favors students more than anyone. Elites? :shrug:

[joshcryer]

69. Yep.

Students are elites compared to the working class individuals who flip the burgers for them and clean their fucking toilets.

[woolldog]

70. It's on a saturday for chrissakes.

Not only "yuppies" have saturday off.

[sniffa]

5. She met 3 nurses who told her they wouldn't be able to caucus for

her because they'll be working. More sexist voting rules designed to deny her.

[ellisonz]

11. That's enough to swing the whole state don't ya know.

Somehow I think the caucus system breaks about even in terms of not being able to attend. At least caucuses are harder to outright rig.

[Samantha]

96. I agree

Why should this more adversely impact Hillary than Obama.

Sam

[rateyes]

15. Sexist? Are you assuming the nurses are female? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Good Catch

Sniffa's still caught in the fifties...

[sniffa]

35. No that Hillary is

[rateyes]

57. So, if the caucus format favored Hillary's supporters, I guess

it would be racist? :shrug:

[sniffa]

73. Yes

This update has been brought to you by the Council On The Status Of The Sarcasm Impaired (COTSOTSI).

[rodeodance]

79. Read post 47--seems the OP has distorded the scene and you feel for it.

[Debi]

123. If only the young and wealthy support Obama

why is it that Clinton's donors have all maxed out and Obama has raised more $$ through more small dollar donors? WTF?

[LisaM]

7. Of course, people not being able to vote in a caucus if they work is only 100% true

Hospitals aren't like casinos. They can't just set aside rooms for people on the job to leave and go caucus for a couple of hours.

It's true that caucuses disenfranchise. I hate them. I have to go to one tomorrow in Washington and I'm glad you brought this up because when I caucus for Hillary tomorrow I will mention those three nurses.

[HeraldSquare212]

17. They don't disenfranchise anyone who wants to go.

My wife is a nurse and changes shifts with people all the time.

[joshcryer]

25. Yes, but not everyone can do that. It mandates that people who need a paycheck forego that pay...

...to vote. People can't afford to do it, it's that simple. Don't you know what it's like to live by the paycheck?

[HeraldSquare212]

29. I have known that, yes. But the nurses she spoke with had a solution and chose not to use it. nt

[joshcryer]

38. Their solution could not mathematically count for everyone.

Someone has to be doing those jobs, if someone takes time off they're just preventing another person from voting.

[HeraldSquare212]

45. So you're saying elections get 100% turnout?

I don't buy that every potential voter wants to attend.

[joshcryer]

50. No.

No matter what the turnout is, mathematically half of those people cannot attend a caucus because the other half have to be working when they others are attending. And because these caucuses are happening at night, the hardest working class individuals are just plain screwed.

[LisaM]

87. So if all the nurses at her workplace wanted to take off the same two hours

they could?

[joshcryer]

92. LOL, "but 100% voter turnout doesn't happen."

:sarcasm:

[LisaM]

94. BUT - that isn't the point.

Presumably nurses have a higher chance of voting (like teachers) and more incentive to vote.

[joshcryer]

99. *nod* I forgot the sarcasm tag. :)

[LisaM]

101. Oh, phew!

:rofl:

[HeraldSquare212]

114. But that's inisting on an abstract notion

Not everyone who can vote wants to vote. You're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[rug]

Imagine, having to work instead of hanging out discussing politicians.

[durrrty libby]

8. I'm sick of your faux rage and bellyaching.

[K Gardner]

16. You've evidently mistaken me for your candidate !

[rodeodance]

126. PLEASE READ THIS CORRECTION TO THE OP:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4486745#4487108
4487108, That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Posted by in_cog_ni_to on Fri Feb-08-08 05:25 PM

their caucus because they had to work, so she told the crowd they needed to go out to caucus for her.

Your thread title is ridiculous and a LIE. That's not what she said.

[thevoiceofreason]

10. And who fought tooth and nail in Nevada

To restrict the caucuses? Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Instant Karma, Baby.

[AtomicKitten]

12. These pre-election excuses and rationalizations coming from the Clinton camp are becoming routine.

Their urge to constantly triangulate and manipulate perception is pretty breathtaking. They are beginning to get on my nerves in the same way as an obnoxious 2-year-old running around screaming in a restaurant. Oy vey.

[paulk]

65. it's true, though

Caucuses are not usually representative, and exactly for the reasons stated. Many people can't afford to take 2 or 3 hours off to attend. They can't afford or find a babysitter. Caucuses by there very nature exclude people.

Sixty years ago all the states had caucuses - there has been a steady movement away from them and toward primaries, especially since the McGovern era reforms of our nominee selection process. Voters wanted more of a say in the process and primaries give that.

[rodeodance]

76. well, you know we are not in SWOONing people with the Holy Word.

[BlackVelvet04]

88. I can understand why reality gets on your nerves...... n/t

[Barack_America]

13. I don't think that I like Hillary Clinton...

...the day before a primary/caucus. It's always tears and self-pity. It's very unbecoming.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. The Nerve Of Her To Be Offended That David Shuster Implied Her Only Child Was A Whore

~

[K Gardner]

32. You know, you all are even distorting THAT. Yes, what he said was poorly

thought out and ill-advised. But his comments were with regards to the Clintons USING Chelsea to call superdelegates, and he used a term that is used frequently in "pop" culture to describe a LOT of things besides "prostitution". The term was not directed to Chelsea, but to the Clinton's use of her to ask for votes.

But aside from that, we're here in a thread about Hillary complaining about caucuses AGAIN, and you're here invoking Pity/Sympathy. Do you see that? Do you see a pattern?

Shuster apologized. Twice. When will you stop using it as a talking pity victim point?

[TexasObserver]

51. Anyone under 40 should be familiar with the lingo.

Or if they'd ever watched one hour on MTV.

It's more outrage for the sake of outrage.

"Oh my, my, Bill, I do believe I'm gettin' the vapors!!"

[Barack_America]

54. Come to think of it...Cuomo and Johnson only apologized ONCE for their comments...

So I guess we have the right to reinvigorate that outrage until they issue more apologies?

[rodeodance]

71. that Clinton hatred is clouding your judgement again I see--

[Barack_America]

78. Not at all. If Clinton expects multiple apologies, why shouldn't Obama? n/t

[rodeodance]

85. Either you not informed or are not comprehening what has transpired in terms of the

Schuster "apology"

[Barack_America]

52. Um, where did I mention that?

I happen to think that particular comment was in poor taste. But it's a separate issue than complaining about caucuses. And that is what I was referring to.

[CoffeeCat]

14. It's the "wounded duck" syndrome...

Help me! Help me! Fix my broken wing!

Ohhhhh lawwwdy....my wing!!!!

(Look, a clue! 17,000 attended Obama's event in Washington; while only 5,000 attended
Hillary's event).

She's all ready explaining her loss.

It's those three nurses. If only those three nurses were able to caucus.

Victory would have been Hillary's.

[TexasObserver]

39. They remind me of Homer and Bart when they were grifters.

"Hey mister, I lost my puppy. Have you seen him?"

[K Gardner]

43. OMG... *falls out of chair*

[Thrill]

20. More whining from her and her supporters

[rodeodance]

74. You Obamacrybabies are way ahead on that one.

[TexasObserver]

21. It's a lot harder to cheat at caucuses than in elections.

[Thrill]

23. Repukes seem to disagree

[catagory5]

30. She is not lowering ex...

Everyone knows she is gonna get killed this weekend....

there is no trickery there

[TexasObserver]

36. Repukes and the Clintons, that is.

I don't worry about the caucuses, because there are real, live humans from both sides there, unlike elections, where you might have some Clintonista stuffing the ballot box overnight at their home in, say, New Mexico.

[AZBlue]

103. Ding, ding, ding!

[Mass]

26. Of course, men never work on Saturday. Only women! Only Hillary's voters.

I feel sorry for people who cannot go and caucus because they work, but how does she know they favor her?

[xultar]

34. You are assuming that the nurses were women...aren't you. That's sexist.

[HeraldSquare212]

40. That's a good point - Obama is just as hampered as she is by the format

but somehow seems to make it work for him. I guess it's all in the details, eh? Can't just carpet-bomb a state with ads.

[joshcryer]

41. Because she's won most primaries?

Because the demographics are working class voters who vote for her?

[Alhena]

33. I'm an Obama supporter, but objective enough to admit ...

that the caucus format has greatly aided his candidacy so far. It's impossible to deny- he beat Hillary by an average of around 30 points in 5 or so Western caucuses on Super Tuesday. No rational person would think he would do anything like that well in a primary.

At the same time, Hillary has had advantages of her own that aren't fair, most notably her superdelegate advantage and the possibility that she might be able to seat some or all of the Michigan and Florida delegates.

The bottom line is that both sides have some legitimate grievances about the fairness of the nominating process.

[newmajority]

42. Get over yourself, Hillary.

We didn't let Dino Rossi steal this state, and we aren't letting you steal it either!

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend

their caucus because they had to work, so she told the crowd they needed to go out to caucus for her.

Your thread title is ridiculous and a LIE. That's not what she said.

[rodeodance]

77. Distortion is a hallmark of some many obamababies.

[in_cog_ni_to]

97. Ya think?

It's just pathetic, isn't it?

[Iceburg]

48. Only the Limoisine Liberals can afford to caucus /nt

[loveangelc]

63. i love that term tbh

[Yael]

55. This seems to be the opposite of her Nevada Caucus position

[calteacherguy]

62. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S. nt

[mondo joe]

58. I've been talking w people in Seattle all day about the problem with the caucus.

It creates more barrier to patricipation than it's worth, IMO.

[rodeodance]

127. CORRECTION TO OP HERE:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4486745#4487108
4487108, That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Posted by in_cog_ni_to on Fri Feb-08-08 05:25 PM

their caucus because they had to work, so she told the crowd they needed to go out to caucus for her.

Your thread title is ridiculous and a LIE. That's not what she said.

[calteacherguy]

60. Boo hoo hoo...so hypocritical, especially after the Clintons' behavior in Nevada. nt

[loveangelc]

61. when is the washington primary?

[LisaM]

75. The primary, which does not count for the Democratic candidates,

Is February 19th.

[LisaM]

83. Hillary has consistently done better in working class areas

So if some of those people are <gasp> actually working, a two-hour event in the middle of the day on Saturday (prime retail shopping hours, BTW), hurts workers.

The deal in Nevada was that some people (casino workers) got special privileges that other people who had to work that day did not. A primary would have erased that preferential treatment. I don't think they raised a stink until their union endorsed someone. Giving one union who'd endorsed a candidate special privileges over the other ones does not really seem fair.

As far as the nurses go, if all three nurses work the same hours at the same place, can they all three switch shifts? I doubt it.

Our caucuses are on a Saturday. Not only does this favor white collar workers, it's vastly beneficial to college students, which means that they, many of whom probably even aren't from Washington state, will get a disproportionate voice. I don't see under what system that seems fair to anyone. I don't mind college students who attend a university for four years getting the same vote as anyone else in the state/county/city when they are living and working there. But under this system, they get more of a voice.

[Yael]

89. Lisa,

What is the difference between your caucus and your primary?

[LisaM]

91. In the caucus, there is a designated two-hour time period

You have to show up BY the appointed time, or you can't participate.

In the primary, you not only get a 13-hour window to vote, you get absentee ballots if you need them.

We are having a primary, too, but it doesn't count for Presidential candidates, at least on the Democratic side. I think there are a few issues on it.

[Yael]

93. So you are saying that you can caucus and vote

but only the caucus counts?

Is that both parties?

I am having trouble wrapping my mind around why anyone needs both. Omaha Stave said in Nebraska, they caucus for delegates and then primary for the actual vote a month later. Is this similar?

[LisaM]

95. No. I don't even know if the candidates will be on the primary ballot

When they tried to go to a primary system a few years ago, there was a scuffle about it.

[Yael]

104. Interesting

Best to you tomorrow. Have FUN!!

:hi:

[dailykoff]

72. I think what she means is she can't rig a caucus

without years of preparation, as in Nevada.

[joshcryer]

80. Or $20 million in staffers.

[rodeodance]

81. Your Clinton hatred is showing

[BlackVelvet04]

82. She's right.....

students and the wealthy are much more free to take off the time needed for a caucus.

[marlakay]

84. That answer was so bullshit

My brother n law has to work and is going to miss caucusing for Obama, his wife is going alone. I am sure it happens on both sides and if causing was important enough they could have asked for the time off, I knew the date last summer!!

They could have people who don't vote or want to vote work....

[AGirl]

90. my brother 's friend's sister also said she would vote for Obama

but she had to work so she couldn't, that means this topic is WORTHELESS!!@@

[workinclasszero]

98. Hell no, thats the only way she can get any votes

Has she cried on TV today???:eyes:

[jenmito]

100. I guess she thinks she's the only one who has supporters who have to work.

She IS the only one whining about it!

[eilen]

106. Nurses can switch shifts too.

Saturdays are probably the one day of the week that will get the most people out to caucus. Plenty of nurses work Mon-Friday too. Weekends usually are half-staffed and often are worked in 12 hour shifts so it is debatable they would even get to the polls in time. Sometimes people miss things because of work, that's how it is. I'm sure not being able to caucus didn't stop them from contributing.

[jenmito]

115. Exactly. It's obvious she's just lowering the bar again...

and welcome to the DU! :hi:

[fortyfeetunder]

102. post deleted n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

105. Um, Hillary there is a primary and a caucus in WA state.

I can offer you some Cougar Gold or Beechers cheese for that whine. They're from WA State!!!

[skooooo]

112. The primary vote for presidential candidates won't count.....

It's the caucus that will be counted. The ballots are for deciding the issues, even though they have the pres. candidates names on them. That's what I've been told.

[fortyfeetunder]

118. I agree

I am sorry Hillary used the words I can't win a caucus...is she asking for a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I question her motive for saying that....

[Yael]

124. Underdog Politics

It is a gambit to elicit sympathy. "Vote for the underdog" or "the big bad meanies are picking on the poor defenseless woman" meme.

Poll tested and approved in NH.

:(

[Cha]

109. Merits? What merits?

hilary don't have no stinkin' merits.

[busymom]

110. Hey...

I emailed the Clinton campaign about this exact issue in MN right after the caucus. Good to know that she got my message.

[Kittycat]

111. And how is any of this Obama's fault?

Where's the freaking crying baby emoticon when you need it?

She's dealing with the same set of rules Obama is. The variances between their demographics are not enough to really matter that much. He does better, because his supporters are willing to stick around and not complain. They believe they're there for a higher purpose - cult, don't you know. Yes. We. Can Beat HRC.

[pdxmom]

113. So she hates the caucuses because they won't include everyone, but

I haven't heard her object to the fact that the superdelegates may very well be the determining factor in this campaign, and that would negate the voice of all of the primary voters. As a matter of fact, not only is she not offering any suggestions on how to keep this from happening, like asking all superdelegates to vote with whomever their state elected, she's actively working to get votes from the superdelegates, regardless of which way their state went.

[K Gardner]

122. Why would she object to that? Did you forget who we're talkin about? :-)

[scheming daemons]

116. Caucuses can't be Diebolded.... that's why Hillary can't win them...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

119. She probably has a trick up her sleeve?

[BklynChick]

121. it's her party and she can cry if she wants to... in all seriousness, it's getting pathetic.

[rodeodance]

125. CORRECTION TO OP HERE: PLEASE READ:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4486745#4487108
4487108, That's NOT what she said. She said she had talked to nurses, but they couldn't attend
Posted by in_cog_ni_to on Fri Feb-08-08 05:25 PM

their caucus because they had to work, so she told the crowd they needed to go out to caucus for her.

Your thread title is ridiculous and a LIE. That's not what she said.

[cooolandrew]

128. God bless her and rovian tactics. May she find enlightenment and truth.If the truth is love.