DU members did engage in political adoration, but it's not Obama

[cali]

How quickly we forget; The way Obama supporters feel about their candidate is nothing compared to the way much of DU acted about Al Gore. Go back and read thread after thread of comments about how Al Gore was THE SAVIOR. And yes people literally said that. Lots and lots of them. So remember that the next time you start in on Obama supporters. Odds are that you were one of the people caught up in the "Al Gore is the only one who can save the world" thing.

[thunder rising]

1. How quickly you forget Howard Dean!!

[Orangepeel]

14. I was a much of a Dean supporter as anyone. But there is a BIG difference

I supported Dean for many reasons. But one of them was that I appreciated the enthusiasm he generated and the new people that be brought into politics. I was hoping beyond hope that "people powered Howard" could break through the entrenched political structure and the media filters to get his message across.

He couldn't.

He couldn't turn enthusiasm into votes. Before the famous "scream" he'd come in a distant third in Iowa. All those kids in orange hats couldn't work the system.

Obama seems to be have the ability to convert enthusiasm into votes. That's rare and special. God, I hope he can keep it up.

[mopinko]

17. dean did.

it just took a little longer than the election cycle. if obama does as well as i think he is going to, he will have howard dean to thank.

[Cha]

37. As an eternal Dean supporter..I see

a lot of Dean's gifts in Obama. They both have a vision for getting our country on the right track through hard work that includes us. Not like the dlc..corporations first tactics of the clintons.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Gore and Edwards were much beloved here--couldn't say a bad word

about them without getting flamed.

[Tennessee Gal]

3. It wasn't the same. Gore had and still has substance.

[KittyWampus]

23. Listen, I posted a thread about how PATHETIC Hillary is on Technology/FCC/Telecoms

you cultists have a candidate who has NOTHING on her website except to mention tv violence.

You are so blinded by your cult-like devotion to Clinton you actually believe the crap you post.

[MADem]

4. Well, I knew where Gore, Dean and Edwards stood on the issues.

All I know about Obama is that he hates gays.

[TwilightGardener]

7. I expect better from you, MADem. That's a pretty low blow.

[MADem]

20. It's the TRUTH. McClurkin, OK. Fine. One mistake. Then KirbyJon the Bush pastor,

another gayhater who was AT that McClurkin hate fest and later endorsed Obama...that's a PROBLEM, because that seems a bit deliberate....and now, Willie Brown tells us he didn't want any of that Mayor Newsom stink getting up on him? He begged to NOT BE PHOTOGRAPHED with a "gay helping" guy who was HELPING him fundraise?

He hates gays. Three strikes and he's OUT.

How many times do you have to WATCH the guy and his surrogates FUCKING OVER gay people before you finally figure out that he DOES mean it? He's telegraphing a "signal" for a REASON?

[KittyWampus]

26. YOUR girl panders to the same homophobic bigots. Hypocrite. Just because she does it in the closet?

[MADem]

34. WE are not talking about "my" sixty year old "girl" though, are we. And how many

Pray Away The Gay PREACHERS have appeared at HOPE AND CHANGE HILLARY GOSPEL RALLIES and spoken on the subject of how Gays can get rid of their .... AFFLICTION?

Let's see...

That number would be ZERO.

I won't call your candidate the equivalent diminutive, because I have more sense than you seem to.

[TwilightGardener]

40. Hillary Clinton, fall debate: "I'm your Girl!"

[TwilightGardener]

30. An entertainer who believes in "conversion", a black RW pastor's endorsement, and a story

from a Clinton supporter, right before the primary, from a state they were both trying to win = gay hate from the candidate himself? Tons of people here seem to give Republicans like McCain and Huckabee a pass for ACTUAL gay hatred and discrimination, they just like them for other reasons, we expect that from conservatives--but out of thousands of Obama supporters and hangers-on, three overpublicized bit players, associated in some very unimportant ways with the campaign, is your evidence that the man himself hates gays? Not laws he has written, or statements--loose associations from a handful of the thousands of people who have contact with him is enough to hang him? Come on. You're a better critical thinker than that. Is Hillary a misogynist, or masochistic, for staying married to a man who has a known history of using women sexually and then discarding them? I would say no. She herself does not actively try to hurt the cause of women. Obama himself does not actively try to harm gays.

[MADem]

33. Willie Brown said it happened. So did Newsom and his staffers.

You are saying they're LYING?

You know what? If every time you go out to dinner, you order chicken, I'm gonna figure that YOU LIKE CHICKEN.

Obama has, on three very visible occasions, taken on supporters and behaved in ways that suggests he does not LIKE GAY PEOPLE.

Trying to suggest that Hillary's MARRIAGE is "the same" or equivalent is a lame defense, too, and some incredibly shitty logic. Hillary isn't asking serial adulterers to join her campaign AND tout the JOYS and BENEFITS of serial adultery, is she? She doesn't have the head of the Misogynist's Association of America "PREACH" at Rallies that you can keep your little woman in line by fucking an intern, does she? To try to suggest that their marriage difficulties are the same as taking on ENDORSEMENTS from gay-hating surrogates who go out and deliver the mean and nasty word on behalf of the campaign is just ... idiotic.

She said he's a hard dog to keep on the porch, and he's abjectly apologized to her, too, on TV, on radio, in print, and on his talking book. Obama hasn't apologized for his enthusiastic preachers, spouting their Gay Away messages while campaigning for him.

You criticize MY critical thinking, and you've got the fucking stones to use a pisspoor example like that?

Obama's currying of endorsements from Pray Away The Gay, Rightwing Fundie Preachers IS an active effort to harm gays. It's a deliberate device that he uses to ASSURE a large group of religious bigots that HE (nudge wink) isn't in favor of letting those Sinning Queers have any marriage/partnership rights.

And if you cannot see that, it is because you don't WANT to see that.

[TwilightGardener]

39. How many people in America have even HEARD of McClurkin, or

Kirby-whatever, or care about whether or why Obama didn't have his picture taken with someone years ago? Seriously, the only people who know about this, or wax obsessive about it, are on political message boards. So if Obama's "secret message" is I Hate Gay People, he's doing a pretty lousy job in the real world--most conservatives would assume he's a liberal gay-supporting Democrat. And Bill campaigns for Hillary--he is a serial womanizer. I guess Hillary only cares about women who can vote for her, huh? See how stupid this can get? And didn't one of the Clintons support the DOMA, or do I have that wrong? Either way, until you can show me some proof that Obama crafted/voted for legislation specifically designed to impede gays' rights, or made anti-gay statements, your "guilt by very loose association" by bit players doesn't hold water. The only thing that's clear is that you're hell-bent on not liking him. OK.

[MADem]

41. Every gay person in America knows who they are, I will wager.

But, eh, what the fuck, huh? They're just GAYS!!!! Who gives a shit about 'em? Who cares what kind of message Obama is sending to THAT constituency!

Those of us who AREN'T gay shouldn't worry about those whiners! Even if they're friends, or relatives!

How DARE they want .....EQUALITY!!

Really...who the fuck do they think they ARE?

American citizens?


(Pssssst...the Clinton who signed DOMA into law ISN'T RUNNING for President!! Just thought you should know!)

[TwilightGardener]

42. Bill Clinton hates gays. He doesn't want to treat them as equals. Hillary

associates closely with him. She associates with someone who wants to deny gays full rights. Hillary hates gays.

[TwilightGardener]

43. Not even getting into "Don't Ask Don't Tell"...

[MADem]

47. Hey, I WORKED on that issue. Don't tell ME about it.

When the MILITARY finally came around, and there was almost enough forward movement to make it happen, a GOP Congress put their foot down and said NO FUCKING WAY. Everything got stuffed in a file and put away. The Unit Cohesion studies, the Attitude surveys, the whole nine yards.

When Clinton left office, so did that opportunity. For now. If another Clinton takes the WH, we'll revisit that issue and I suspect that any restrictions on gays serving in the military will be lifted in fairly short order.

So go on, get into it. I worked it. I know how hard the WH tried, and I saw how far the Pentagon moved -- FORWARD, by the way -- on the issue. It was the Newties that kabashed that matter.

[MADem]

44. Bill Clinton doesn't hate gays. He wanted to repeal the prohibition on

gays in the military--he even had the guts to stand up and SAY SO. He did do it, halfway, with DADT, and would have repealed it totally had not a GOP Congress thwarted him.

He signed DOMA, too, but only to avoid a push to AMEND THE CONSTITUTION to make gay marriage ILLEGAL.

Of course, people who don't know their politics ignore those truths. Gay people get it, though.

[TwilightGardener]

46. LOL! The hypocrisy is staggering. That was some stunningly bad spin, too.

[MADem]

48. No, it wasn't spin. I am familiar with those issues because I worked them

between the Pentagon and Cap Hill.

You don't know, because you didn't.

[TwilightGardener]

49. Really stood his ground on the issue, didn't he? The Clintons triangulating

on gay issues = OK, Obama having a couple supporters who think gayness is a correctable condition through prayer = Obama has rabid hatred of gays. You're much more dense than I thought, if you don't see the ridiculousness of your argument.

[MADem]

52. He had a Pentagon problem. If you recalled your recent history, you'd remember that. ROTC letter?

Draft dodging? Les Aspin fucking up in DOD, eventually being replaced by GOP Bill Cohen?

Yeah...devil's in the details, ain't it? It's not "triangulating" when you don't have the fucking LEVERAGE.

Clinton never had gay-hating preachers touting for HIM, either, though. And gay rights went further under his administration than they have at any other time in our nation's history.

If anyone's being ridiculous, it's certainly NOT me.

Have another glass of Kool Aid, you seem thirsty.

[TwilightGardener]

54. Triangulation. Take an issue, try to make the RW think you're not

that far left, try to make the LW think you actually give a damn about them. It's what they've always done. And they've been associated with so many sleazy-ass characters, I can't even believe you're harping on preachers who support Obama, who often tend to be...Bible-based. Every preacher or minister who supports Hillary (Ted Strickland, I think he's a Baptist--check out THEIR platform) believes some of the same shit. Give me a break.

[MADem]

55. NO. He didn't have the LEVERAGE. If he'd had it, it would have been a done deal.

He came flat out and PLEDGED it. And he hated to have to go back on his word, but he did not have the leverage WITHIN the JCS, and even his own Service Secretaries couldn't drag along the Flag/General ranks--they just weren't ready for the switch.

By the time he had the Presidential clout, Congress had gone GOP. The JCS/senior leadership were finally coming around, and the Hill was being obstreperous.

I can't explain it any plainer than that.

I was there.

[cali]

10. that speaks only to your ignorance, your unwillingness or inability

to educate yourself and your being willing to engage in spinning bullshit. Shame on you. You know perfectly well that Obama doesn't hate gays. And don't bother to answer. You've crossed the line into the truly repugnant. Happy to put your ass on ignore. It's too ugly for my eyes.

[MADem]

21. Bullshit. He has slammed gays on THREE distinct occasions. Let's get

BIBLICAL, why don't we, because we know what happened when that "Deny Three Times" shit went down....

Please. PUT me on IGNORE. I really don't give a shit if you hang in Fantasyland for all time. Hope there's not too much sugar in your KOOLAID....

[ClericJohnPreston]

27. Cali

sitting in judgment again of all things DU and all posters.

Talk about what you know Cali.....CUPCAKES!

[Straight Shooter]

11. Amen!

"Good enough for me but not for thee."

I have a question about Mister WWRD (What Would Reagan Do):

What the hell kind of judges is Barack going to nominate for the Supreme Court in order to appease the Repubs in the name of biparisanship and to ameliorate his religious conscience when it comes to gay rights?

[MADem]

22. Maybe he'll ask Donnie and KirbyJon, his two favorite gay hating pastors, for nominations? NT

[mopinko]

19. then everything you know is wrong.

that is so full of shit.

[MADem]

31. I think you're forgetting about the three big 'gay hating' problems he has

Donnie McClurkin -- we KNOW about that business, if you missed it, you google that bastard.

KirbyJon Caldwell -- a gay hating Bush endorsing buddy who was AT the McClurkin festivities in SC and who is now ON Obama's team, endorsing him: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5469706.html

Here's the decisive link on THAT guy: http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/01/21/barack-obama-and-kirbyjon-caldwell-somebodys-fibbing-maybe-everybody/

And now, we hear from Willie Brown and Mayor Newsom's staff that Obama didn't want to be PHOTOGRAPHED with the Mayor--ooops, he mighta gotten some of that "gay sympathy" on him had he done that!!!

Read THIS: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/05/BAM5US1B5.DTL

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me THREE TIMES, I shouldn't be allowed to vote at all, and the guy doing the fooling oughta be told to fuck right off.

How ANYONE with one fifth of a brain can FAIL to see a PATTERN here is beyond me. Obama hates gays. He doesn't want to be ASSOCIATED with them, beyond expressing "tolerance" (pity) for them. His schtick with the Jesus Crowd is "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner." He does the 'Nudge, Wink' I-Don't-Really-MEEEAN-It routine with the gay folk, but most of THEM aren't buying it either.

I don't know any gays who are doing any excessive SINNING, actually. Eh, maybe they'll say "Gee, that suit looks good on you" when it looks like shit, or "I like those shoes" when they hate them, and maybe they'll take an extra mint from the tray beside the cash register at the restaurant, but that sort of kindly lying and petty theft is not sinning in my book.

Obama seems to think "sinning" is a condition of BEING for them--at least if you judge him by those he curries favor and endorsement from.... and he actively seeks the favor of those who believe that one can Pray Away The Gay.

By his actions, we shall know him. That Newsom thing makes it quite plain where he's at.

[KittyWampus]

24. Then you're too stupid to read or listen.

[MADem]

36. Hey, I provide links. You provide "You're too STUUUPID" insults.

Heckuva job, there Culty!

[Straight Shooter]

53. Barack's supporters are always telling us we're stupid or need to be educated.

Why don't you hop on over to the GLBT forum and spout the same nonsense there that you post here. Or, a better idea, if you'll simply read and pay attention, you may actually learn from people who understand everything there is to know about discrimination and how it applies to their lives, every single day.

You have a most ironic member name.

[Cant trust em]

5. They say this cat Al Gore is a bad motha...

SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

I'm talkin' 'bout Al Gore.

THEN WE CAN DIG IT!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. Gore might have saved the planet

[bigwillq]

9. He IS saving the planet (nt)

[Bluerthanblue]

12. are you sure you want to make this comment?

talk about Idolatry.

Al Gore has done a fantastic job of educating the world about climate change, and making it a front and center issue.

But saved the planet?

:shrug:

[joshcryer]

8. Al Gore has clearly defined positions.

Barack Obama does not.

[anigbrowl]

13. As does Obama.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

By the way, what is your candidates stance on marijuana decriminalization?

[bigwillq]

25. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[texastoast]

50. What? No response? n/t

[JVS]

32. They're a lot different and clearly defined now than they were in 2000.

So how clearly defined can we call them since they've changed so much?

I think they've changed for the better, and I like Gore, especially the current Gore, but a bedrock of stable ideological standing is NOT what Gore has been.

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

15. SPAM, pointless dribble!

You would think given your childish insults you would not spam like this!

[Bucky]

16. Thanks a fuckin LOT, Cali, for not pointing this out until AFTER I sacrificed my first born to Obama

Do you have any idea how long it's going to take to find another cult now that you've rained on my parade?

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

LOL!

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

28. LOL!

[izzybeans]

18. It's an organized campaign that has taken on a life of its own.

suppress the spirit of the movement. that's the goal.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. One person's cult is another person's movement

In a way, every political campaign in America involves some degree of hero worship and cult of personality, and the voluntary suspension of critical judgement about the candidate they choose. Some Hillary Clinton supporters and Obama partisans could be accused of the same type of behavior. But there are also people here who have shown the ability to admit the pro and the con about their candidate and I think we should always applaud that.

[H2O Man]

35. It's also worth noting

that since Al Gore has matured into the "leader" (for lack of better word) that he is today, that he talks about the responsibility of the individual to be an active agent for change in our world.

[incapsulated]

38. AND I SAID SO THEN TOO

I thought Gore worship was even WORSE.

[texastoast]

45. Obama has more chance of being the savior

than does Hillary.

And no, Al can't save the world without the rest of us. But he's done more to unite people and wake up people than Hillary ever will.

Hillary will incite voters. Obama has already proven that he will.

Hillary will incite Republicans to vote against her. Obama will cite Dems to get to the polls.

[Rowdyboy]

51. You are no more part of an "Obama cult" than I was of a "Clark Cult" in 2004....

Some cheapass "journalist" (and I use the term VERY loosely) uses the phrase cult to belittle the fact that young people are backing Obama and parrots here pick it up for smears. Pathetic.