If Hillary loses men by such a large margin, she cannot win the general election.

[loveangelc]

Every poll shows Obama leading McCain and Hillary losing to McCain. After looking at the CNN poll, we now know it has to do with MEN. She loses men by a HUGE margin, ok? Men are not going to vote for Hillary in the GE, ok? Yes, we have a long way to go, but the fact is many men, for the most part are not going to vote for HILLARY CLINTON over John McCain, now or 8 months from now, no matter how tough she wants to talk. Women, however, will vote for EITHER candidate in the general election over McCain. Obama loses to McCain by a small margin among men. Not to mention Republicans love to hate her and will turn out in droves to vote against her. That CNN poll is crucial.

WAKE.UP.

[AX10]

1. I don't value your opinion much.

Seeing that you personally have an attraction to Obama, your judgement is too clouded to be trusted.

[loveangelc]

4. This has nothing to do with my attraction to Obama ok?

She's not going to win the white house when she's losing men to John McCain in such large margins. She's not going to win men now or in November.

[sniffa]

9. Have you seen my thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4468754

:hi:

[niceypoo]

63. According to your theory, men who support Obama will vote for McCain...

...which is perfectly in line with the endless stream of Ken Starr talking points I have seen today from Obamites.

A moldy pile of dog excrement could beat McCain and his '1000 year Iraq war' platform and you know it

Since no substance is forthcoming, expect more fear mongering from those 'hope' and 'inspiration' filled Obama 'supporters'

[neutron]

2. What do you do with your dog?

[loveangelc]

5. jog?

[Hieronymus]

56. It's true that Hillary appeals to the less educated voter.

[niceypoo]

67. And, of course, you can back this claim up, right?

[splat]

3. You wouldn't be a father of a daughter, would you?

[loveangelc]

6. ...what?

[splat]

32. I didn't think so

Often fathers open their eyes to their own bias against women through their love and hopes for their daughters.

[loveangelc]

39. o...ok...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

55. That's touching but my sexist asshole of a father never did.

I loved him dearly but he was a sexist asshole.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. The GE will be about the economy. Male voters will go with McCain by small margin

Female voters will go with Clinton by a large margin

[BlueManDude]

28. Wrong. It will be about Iraq and national security. We always get this wrong.

[loveangelc]

44. female voters will go to either Obama or Clinton by a large margin.

why do polls show him doing better among white voters in a general election than hillary btw?

[Politicub]

8. Your doggie is cute

We have an english bulldog puppy :)

But there are more women in the US than men - so Hillary will win.

[loveangelc]

15. thank you :-)

No, I don't think so. I don't think it's that simple to say that there are more women than men, therefore Hillary will win. You cannot lose men in a general election by that large a margin and expect to win.

[Jed Dilligan]

65. That ignores the EC

In the podunk states there is very often a female shortage, the most egregious being in Alaska (52% male, "The odds are good but the goods are odd"). The higher number of females nationally reflects concentrations like you find in New York City (52% female, "Sex and the City"). Basically, the places with female majorities are going to the Democrat anyway.

[Iceburg]

10. Primary Turnout Male to Female voters: 40% to 60% /nt

[loveangelc]

11. Primary turnout isn't a general election.

[Iceburg]

19. Not for young voters but it most certainly is for mature voters (especially females)

[Captain Hilts]

30. More women than men still turn out. nt

[loveangelc]

45. not enough to overcome the advantage mccain would have among men if hillary were the nominee.

[nomorenomore08]

12. "Obama loses to McCain by small margin"

Why is that? Are men more racist than women? Or do they simply see McCain as the more "macho" candidate, being a former POW and all?

[loveangelc]

17. who knows...men are strange creatures. The point is that they vote much more for Obama than Hillary.

[amborin]

21. Wrong again, you exaggerate, you're just bashing Hillary

[amborin]

23. only 7% so far.....the OP just exaggerates, just b.s.

THE NATIONAL JOURNAL

February 9, 2008

The Slugfest Continues

BYLINE: William Schneider

SECTION: POLITICAL PULSE

LENGTH: 716 words


HIGHLIGHT: If Hillary Clinton
Enhanced Coverage LinkingHillary Clinton -Search using:
Biographies Plus News
News, Most Recent 60 Days
wins the Democratic nomination, the pressure will be intense for her to put Barack Obama Enhanced Coverage LinkingBarack Obama -Search using:
Biographies Plus News
News, Most Recent 60 Days
on the ticket.



Big wins, no knockouts. That's the bottom line for both Hillary
Rodham Clinton and
John McCain Enhanced Coverage LinkingJohn McCain -Search using:
Biographies Plus News
News, Most Recent 60 Days

after the Super Tuesday contests.
They are now the strong front-runners in their parties. Both
face tough problems in trying to sew up their nominations and
rally their parties behind them.

The results in the Super Tuesday Democratic primaries show
a continuing split in the party's vote: a total of 7.4 million
for Clinton and 7.3 million for Obama. CNN estimates as of 5
p.m. Wednesday indicate that
Clinton and Obama Enhanced Coverage LinkingClinton and Obama -Search using:
Biographies Plus News
News, Most Recent 60 Days

are fairly close
in the number of delegates each has won to date (818 for
Clinton, 730 for Obama).

The primaries exposed some important divisions within the
Democratic Party. According to the TV networks' exit polling in
the 16 states that had Democratic primaries on Super Tuesday,
African-Americans backed Obama, 82 percent to 17 percent. If
Clinton wins the nomination, she will have to reach out to black
voters in some dramatic way. The pressure will be intense for
her to put Obama on the ticket, a prospect that drew rousing
cheers from the audience at the recent Democratic debate in Los
Angeles.

However, white voters in the Democratic primaries were not
the mirror image of blacks.Clinton carried the white vote (53
percent), but Obama's share was a solid 40 percent. There is a
racial division in the party, but not racial polarization.

The gender gap is also conspicuous. Women voted for
Clinton, 53 percent to 42 percent. Men preferred Obama, 50
percent to 44 percent.What made the women's vote decisive was
that 57 percent of Democratic primary voters on Super Tuesday
were female. Attracting male voters to a ticket headed by
Clinton could be another problem for Democrats.

[loveangelc]

26. Im not talking about primaries, Im talking about the GE.

you're telling me between McCain and Hillary Clinton, the male vote will split?

[amborin]

60. you're a clairvoyant, then?

are you trying to squirm out of what you said?

you made a general statement

you have no valid projections for the GE, if you did, you'd be a multi billionaire for heaven's sake

just b.s.

[loveangelc]

62. well if you believe men will vote for Hillary and McCain almost equally you keep on believing that..

[Thrill]

13. Hillary will never be President

[NMMNG]

14. Someone who votes based on who they think is "hot" should be taken seriously?

:rofl:

[jackson_dem]

20. She makes a valid point

But she ignores Obama getting as low as 24-25% of the white vote and averaging 37% among whites (Super Tuesday), losing Latinos, Asians, GLBT, and Jews badly while losing women by significant margins. If we do a group by group analysis it is her candidate who is the most vulnerable.

[NMMNG]

34. Yeah, she ignores that

And at her own peril.

[loveangelc]

42. you're talking about the primaries. I'm talking about the general election.

of course a lot of women are voting for hillary NOW. When the general election comes, theyre going to vote for EITHER Obama or Clinton. Men are going to flock to McCain though. Obama is not going to lose GLBT and women, etc. to mccain in a GE.

[jackson_dem]

46. You're assuming Hillary will lose men while Obama will somehow win what he's losing now

Hillary may be weaker among men but Obama may be weaker among women, Latinos, Asians, whites, Jews, GLBT people, seniors, and working folks.

[loveangelc]

52. AGAIN, you're only thinking in terms of these primaries.

Obama would not be weaker among women against John McCain, and he wouldn't be weaker among GLBT people, working people, I don't believe he will do worse with Jews or Asians. Maybe Latinos, i dont know...

[jackson_dem]

16. And if Obama continues to average 37% with whites he can't win

And if he continues to lose badly among women, Latinos, Asians, GLBT, and Jews he will get trounced.

[loveangelc]

24. this is so sad.

many of you are only thinking in terms of the primary. women will vote for hillary and obama by the same margin in november. men will not. you think GLBT will prefer McCain over Obama? lol.

[spooky3]

31. news flash

most white Republican men and women will NOT vote for Obama OR Clinton.

I have not seen any reliable data (since Mittens dropped out) on what true independents (as opposed to independents du jour, for the purpose of voting in an open primary, or independents who really lean Republican or really lean Dem.) would do in head-to-head matchups.

[loveangelc]

35. seriously? seriously?? you think men will vote for Hillary Clinton in the GE?

and of course republicans won't vote for either. independent are going to go to mccain. at least with obama they split and even lean toward obama.

[spooky3]

47. did you read my post?

Republicans won't vote for EITHER candidate.

You did not present any evidence that independents will do what you predict.

Let me know when you have some evidence.

[loveangelc]

53. you won't believe my evidence anyway.

I would give you poll result but youre just going to dismiss them as not meaning anything because it's too early...

[Thrill]

37. The Democrats will unite behind Obama and he will carry a significant

about of Independents. I don't think it will be close in the General Election. Especially after McCain's shit is called to the carpet. He has no answers on Healthcare or the economy. No way in hell is he going to beat Obama when all he can talk about is staying in a bad war.

The thing that worries me about Hillary is I just think Men won't support her enough in the GE

[spooky3]

49. according to polls the same % of Dems (other than DUers) say they

will rally behind EITHER Obama or Clinton in the general, regardless of their primary choice. Male or female.

White Republicans aren't going to vote for Obama OR for Clinton.

I agree with you McCain is full of shit but I think the media like him and they'll keep it as close as they can.

[jackson_dem]

40. How do we know whites, Latinos, GLBT, Jews, Asians, and seniors will vote for Obama?

You believe women will. That is unclear. Women defecting from him is as likely as men defecting from Hillary. Obama is vulnerable with more groups that account for almost all the American population than Hillary is. The group Hillary does worst with is blacks, who are the most reliable Democratic group. Any Democratic nominee is going to get at least 80% black support.

[loveangelc]

50. You honestly think more women will vote for John McCain than Obama?

most polls show they would have the same margin among women in a general election against McCain.
if he's so vulnerable among white voters, why does he have a better margin among white voters in a head-to-head match up against McCain vs. Hillary? Because Independents (who are likely mostly white) and white men will vote for Obama over Hillary, and white women would vote for either Obama or Clinton in equal margins. Theyre not in the primaries right now, but they would in a general election against McCain. And we dont know if black support will go automatically to Clinton, many blacks were angry about what happened in SC and if Hillary somehow got the nomination through superdelegates, I can definitely see them being pissed and many staying home.

[amborin]

18. you exaggerate way too much

why don't you quote facts? or post links?

you say Hillary loses with men by a "huge margin"

that's a big exaggeration, so your post is just another anti-Hillary diatribe

7% fewer men voted for her in the primaries....that's not "huge"

[loveangelc]

29. omg. HERE:

Clinton does have higher negatives than Obama -- and McCain. Forty-four percent of the public say they don't like Clinton, compared with 36 percent who don't like McCain and 31 percent who don't like Obama, according to the CNN poll conducted February 1-3.

Why does Obama do better against McCain than Clinton? Obama does do a little better than Clinton with independents and Republicans.

But the big difference is men: Men give McCain an 18-point lead over Clinton, 57 percent to 39 percent, according to the CNN poll. The margin of error for that question was plus or minus 5 percentage points.

But if McCain and Obama went head to head, McCain's lead among men shrinks to three, 49 percent to 46 percent -- statistically a tie.

Women, on the other hand, vote for either Clinton or Obama by similar margins.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/08/20008.matchups.schneider/index.html

[amborin]

61. ha ha ha, cnn is your credible source, ha ha ha

[loveangelc]

64. ok, keep believing what you want to believe...if hillary's the nominee we'll see who's right....

[amborin]

68. if obama is the nominee, we lose

he carried some red states...but they will stay red during the GE, not enuf dems in them

hill carried crucial blue states....some of those may go for mccain.....even california could go for mccanin.....hispanics have been trending republican and mccain's immigration policy is moderate

can obama carry the south? doubtful since no black senators to date from south

without the south, all crucial dem states must be blue....but if some aren't?????

[loveangelc]

70. omg.

obama is going to carry blue states. why is everyone only thinking in terms of the primary? im talking about the general election. hillary won blue states but the same supporters are going to go to obama if hes the nominee. if obama is pulling in more red states, that is saying that he has more appeal to red state voters, therefore he is more likely to WIN.

[Double T]

22. It's the MEN that have destroyed this country............

I'd say it's time for a woman to have a shot a straightening out the MEN'S MESS.

[MercutioATC]

33. I've heard it said here before...I vote based on Presidential qualities.

Having a vagina is not (IMO) a Presidential quality.

[Double T]

38. Looking at the candidates still in the race, looks like the ONE with the GREATEST.......

Presidential Qualities also has a vagina.

[MercutioATC]

51. That's completely fair.

If your choice is based on qualities, genetalia is inconsequential.

I only take issue with using gender as a "qualification".

That's what your post stated...

[loveangelc]

54. I'm sorry but that's such a stupid argument imo...

[CaptJasHook]

75. Whatever.

By that logic, you could say it was the "men" who created this nation. It was the "men" who secured our freedoms. It was the "men" who built our economy.

Guess what? It was some men, supported by some women. There are plenty of women and men who have been working hard to prevent this nation from being destroyed.

Bloody misandrist.

[TexasObserver]

25. Your one paragraph post should be required reading.

You state the inescapable truth. If you know it and I know it, all the Democrats in the country who have to run for office in November know it, and all the top Democrats in the country except a few Clinton loyalists know it.

It's only a matter of time before the reality of that truth crashes Team Clinton.

I think Obama will send her home in March. I'm not saying he'll have the delegates, but he'll have the lead and the momentum that cannot be stopped.

[no name no slogan]

27. To be fair, most men already vote Republican anyway

This has been the case since the 1960s.

[katsy]

36. This election can't be lost by either of our candidates.

Barring some major voter suppression, or major blunders by both our fine candidates, we will win. Most Democrats,IMO, will support either candidate. And we have the momentum in this election.


If the past 7+ years of *bush yields another gop nutjob in the white house, head for the hills (preferably in some other country).

[TexasObserver]

48. we thought that in 1988 until we nominated Dukakis and learned different

Yes, we can lose, and if you'll look at the situation realistically, you will see that nominating Hillary is a sure recipe for disaster that could be avoided by nominating Obama.

He's a better candidate across the board.

[loveangelc]

57. I don't think it's wise to say most people will vote for Democrats this election

because of the war or what have you. yes, its 2008 now, and in a Democrat vs. Republican race, a generic Democrat always beats a generic Republican, but replace the generic Republican with John McCain and it's totally different...

[amborin]

69. what are you on?

i sincerly hope you are not a typical, representative obama fan

if so, we're really in trouble

[loveangelc]

71. you know that I'm right about it. What's your argument against MY argument?

that I dont know what will happen in the future? PLZ.

[amborin]

74. asleep the past 8 yrs?

don't you know the electorate in this country?

try reading, "What's the Matter with Kansas?" for starters

citizens have been voting single issues, abortion, guns, anti gays, etc...... pro iraq war, totaly misunderstand islamic fundamentalism, etc....

when a good percentage of the electorate thinks mccain is too moderate, we're in trouble

the evangelicals have incredible get out the vote on the ground mobilization...

to say nothing of rove who's surely still working behind scenes

wake up and stop taking drugs!

it will be a long, hard slog, and i'm not optimistic

[suston96]

41. Nominate her and they will come.

They will gather together at the polling places or mail in their ballots and they will elect her President.

Nominate her, and all the polls and suppositions of the past will mean nothing.

Men, women, young people, old people, dead people. They will all come and they will vote her into the White House.

[splat]

43. They will make history

[texastoast]

58. It has to do with women too

Lots of us old libber women won't vote for Hillary.

I think it is because she stood by her man after he piddled with another woman.

Most libby women like to think of themselves as not being willing to do that. We are too self-empowered to have to put up with that.

Now look don't flame me too bad. It's just my opinion (nonfactual) why the women I've talked to won't vote for her (that part is factual).

[LulaMay]

59. She won't....but if enough women don't turnout because HRC isn't the nominee, we're sunk.

Because women have been a huge part of the Democratic turnout. And the party is taking it for granted, which is a big mistake.

[loveangelc]

66. I think women will turn out just as much for Obama as Hillary.

women will see that Obama has a strong history on women's rights and McCain doesnt.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

72. she hasn't lost the 7 men in my family nor the entire fire department of Hoboken NJ!

[CaptJasHook]

73. Only Stupid White Men will vote for Rethuglicans

And I know a lot of smart White men, like me, who will vote Dem all the way.

Way to inject gender into the election.

Why is it that the minute we have an election where we may be electing a Female or a non-white candidate, everyone has to constantly inject sexism and racism into the debate. I thought the whole point was that we were trying to move the discussion beyond gender and race and onto the content of one's s character.

I thought the point was to unite not divide the electorate on Progressive issues.

Jeez, same old, same old.

[loveangelc]

77. it's a real issue and should be considered for the general election.

[CaptJasHook]

78. Only to the a**holes that I don't give a crap about anyway

This is the same response I gave on another thread:

I could speak for days about what it was like growing up as a progressive male during the era of "Real men don't eat Quiche". Sigh!

I know I am unrealistic at times, but I feel we need to focus on the Progress, and not give the bastards an excuse.

It is always difficult, on the web, to determine where someone is at in their struggle. Many women whose have been living in a misogynistic culture for too long, first come to feminism and don't see the male allies they have around them. Just another reason for me to hate the chauvinistic Fucks who put them in that mindset.

I say let the pigs speak out. I truly believe that the overwhelming majority of this country wants to move beyond gender and race issues. Let the Limpdick Limbaughs spout their feminazi bullshit. It merely exposes them for who they are. When we respond to them with our anger, they are empowered. They have taken control. Instead I way we point at their big limp dicks and laugh...

[krabigirl]

76. Huh, funny why my husband supports her. I should tell him to look at the poll.

And BTW, Republicans will vote against any Democrat.

[TexasObserver]

81. maybe he just tells you that

[CaptJasHook]

82. Yep, men are all lying bastards.

She should have known that when she married him. :sarcasm:

[Kahuna]

79. She's been shamelessly pandering to the female vote. Of course..

men are going to reject her.

[CaptJasHook]

80. A candidate shamelessly pandering... What a shock! nt