All three candidates are crap

[blues90]

I am really sick of the sheeple attitude in this country . I am sick of hearing we need to vote for who is left either Hillary or Omama and if you happen to be a repub McCain .

So what people are more than willing to settle for are media picks bought and paid for picks who are now sucking not only money from corporations but from people who accept what they are offered .

No don't fight back , accept , isn't this exactly how we got where we are now ?

Not one of them is going to fight off the corporations or the media owned by them , not one will end the occupation and not one will pull off a healthcare plan or save this sorry economy because every one of them are picked and own the corporations . Each one is a puppet with the hand shoved up their ass so far people can't see it .

Keep it up , and next time you will have the very same choice offered to you . Yeah I've heard all about how we can pick the best Dem between the two which ever one that may be , who the hell can tell with all the hype flying around from both sides here . Then weed them out if they fail . The same thing was said about how we will weed out the fake useless Dems in the senate and congress . By the time the weeding is done there won't be a country left anylonger .

Stupid songs and slogans and bumper stickers and hairdo's and talk about tears , look at some of these people standing there at any rally and there are the tears . It's to damn bad the tears are not shead about all the death and poverty and destruction all these years then at least it would be usefull and understandable .

I really have to wonder how this would have all turned out if the damn TV sets were shut off and all you had to go by were words over the radio or the written word .

[MercutioATC]

1. YES!! Absolutely correct.

None of the 3 current candidates are going to make one ounce of difference...at a time when we need a major overhaul.


I'd like to see a Ron Paul vs. Mike Gravel race. At least you'd know that something was guaranteed to change.

[bidenista]

9. i'd pay to see that

...but I'd want a little button to press when things got too weird. Besides, imagine if the wrong guy won!

[shireen]

2. yeah, i'm pretty dejected by the process. tv news is EVIL.

there is so much that needs to be fixed, it's overwhelming. :(

[Proud2BAmurkin]

3. I guess I would go along with that

[thoughtcrime1984]

4. Who was you candidate, let me guess- Edwards?

The one who recently "found" Populism? If he is not a centrist, he can show us by his performance in a lower office. Like the message, was unsure about the candidate. Love Dennis, but do you really think he has a chance in hell of getting the nom and winning in the GE? Otherwise, who were you thinking of? You are obviously angry, but how the hell are we going to get where you think we should go? Storm the WH with pitchforks and torches?

[blues90]

5. I'll tell you how , it's very simple

You may think you can figure out who I would support because I don't support one of these three by narrowing it down . There is not one candidate of all that began that I would say has the answers and I don't agree with many things most have said .

There are people I would rather see run that haven't .

It
will happen when people stop following the BS spewed out by the MSM . If people can't see this is how they were suckered into supporting the Iraq attack and how we ended up with bush not once but twice then they are truely caught up in media swill .

Make no mistake , it will never be one person who sets this country on a course that people are truely free and have a society that works together where things are fair .

To suggest that ( and I will choose Obama since he is clearly your choice of the three ) Obama has the answers simply because he can give a speech and bring tears to the eyes and talk about hope and rant yes we can is just as insane as to fall for bush was told by god to attack Iraq .

The only reason Obama got the push he did was Oprah and this is why there are people who suggest this is a cult like following because Oprah is in every sense of the word a culture cult , a rave , she sell's , she is a TV mass media profile . It was the same thing when the Beatles came out on the scene , young people were raging in tears and screaming in hysteria yet the Beatles soon realized this was insane and played off key and joked on stage because they knew no one could hear their music , they knew it was insanity and quite performing live .

Once these things build to a point they have their own momentum fueled by the people .

This hardly makes it reality or lays fact that Obama is supreme . He uses this as his platform because he knows it will bring in funds and support to his personal goal . If you think anyone runs for president and this is not their personal goal then you are a fool . The proof is in the fact that once they have the seat all of their high energy soon fades away they are no longer willing to fight with all of this drive for the good of the people and this is true of every president we have ever had .

The main point is all the candidates now standing are backed by corporations , look at how the money game works , you can't simply break it down to money donated by the citizen , it's not that simple . They are backed because they are willing to play the game , went they don't they end up left out by the media who are owned by corporations , who do you think the corporations want ?

All of this raving of Obama may sound grand right now but no one not even Obama knows what he can really do if and until he becomes the president . And if he does and all of the people who now rave on don't keep up the massive support without letup and are truely willing to do that then you have failed as well .

[OzarkDem]

17. Good points

Our system for choosing candidates has been hijacked by big donors and the news media.

[nonconformist]

45. Another Edwards slam from an Obama supporter.

And then they have the audacity to wonder why we didn't all flock to their guy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. K&R

[MonkeyFunk]

7. awww.... did your candidate lose?

Do you need a hug?

[blues90]

10. You know to be honest , I wish it were that simple .

[ooglymoogly]

49. No our candidate was lost for us by the elimination of air time which conglomerates have a strangle.

hold on. And that is a fact!!!!!!!!

[leftofthedial]

8. the well-trained American consumer

not only reliably buys whatever is being sold

but also "buys," when told, the need to consume even when no need exists

[midnight]

11. Thank you.

It's to damn bad the tears are not shead about all the death and poverty and destruction all these years then at least it would be usefull and understandable .

I really have to wonder how this would have all turned out if the damn TV sets were shut off and all you had to go by were words over the radio or the written word .

Now everyone needs to demand an end to this fear, and start speading prosperity.

[Quixote1818]

12. K & R

[jonnyblitz]

13. I think McCain might be a bit more crappy than the two DEMs.

I DO think the two DEMS are very similar.

[blues90]

23. that's true in a basic sense . When boiled down to a dem or a repub

what we don't need is a rebublican . However the two Democrats were picked for us by the media . It is difficult to call either a true Democrat until they get the seat if one does and then prove it .

[Triana]

14. Damn straight. CORPORATIONS own this country - the gov't, the media...

..and ALL OF US.

Because we LET them.

Period.

[femrap]

19. Maybe BO's fans are too

young to have experienced the horror of working for The Corp. Or maybe we are truly seeing the result of our decaying public school system that no longer teaches critical thinking skills...it teaches only how to pass a test.

Norquist's plan seems to be working...high school grads have a few choices:

1. Go into heavy debt (modern day slavery) and get a college degree which may or may not get you a good job.

2. Join the military

3. $7/hour job and become the working poor with 2 jobs.

4. Crime

5. Learn a trade....there's one job segment that is growing for young women...stripper.

[Triana]

28. 'out of touch with reality'

is what I call it. I don't want to have to "re-learn" what I already know due to the ignorance of of BO's "fans" - so THEY can learn it the FIRST time. I paid my damn dues. I don't want to pay THEIRS too.

Ugh.

[ecstatic]

15. Thanks for your concern. Run along now...

[maximusveritas]

16. Is that you Ralph?

I can't believe you're still peddling this crap. It looks like you just replaced "Gore" with "Hillary or Omama(sic).

[blues90]

21. Maybe look at one thing then .

Look how this is turning out . Here we have people and I have no idea how old they are or how young .

This entire election has done one thing very well . It has show just how shallow and ignorant and childish americans really are . It show we have not grown and matured or moved forward , It has shown a down hill slide by name calling with things like Hillbot and others i care not to remember , the slights with childish jokes about Hillary's ass or Obamas ears and slights about race and sex . This list is endless and people should look at this and be ashamed .

People can't even be grown up enough to spell a candidates name correctly even if they don't like the person . People expect respect for their choice by bashing the others choice , that will work great as we can see right now .

If these are the people voting then we truely are in trouble . Is this what you hear you pick of a candidate doing ? If they did would you still vote for them ? Does this show how you work in society ?

[femrap]

18. Let me K and R this..

I am ashamed of many of my fellow Americans. They seem so easily manipulated. Looks like this election is going to be one where I will have to hold my nose and vote...especially if it's BO. I have a complete distrust of him.

Now, I truly understand why so many people don't vote.

[kster]

20. It would be Dennis Kucinich vs Ron Paul

without a doubt, but the media has already manipulated the 2008 presidential election by weeding these two out.


The media has changed the course of history right before our eyes, and no one cares :boring: just join in on the...

Empire America's Bread and Circuses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2839334&mesg_id=2839334

K&R

[CaptJasHook]

22. What makes you think it was any better in 1908?

Presidential politics have been the lesser of two evils for at least 200 years.

And according to the opposition, you are one of the Sheeple of the United States.

Get to work in your community, change some kid's mind, make them think. Start a revolution in thought.

The problem isn't the "sheeple" the problem is the small number of powerful, rich and very educated that rule this country and make a living manipulating people.

[blues90]

24. You want to make it personal ?

You don't know anything about me .

The problem is the sheeple guided by the rather large group of powerful corporations who manipulate the public through owning their minds due to selling . Once they got the power handed to them by the people they use it against the people by owning their lifes . They own the resource , the land , the jobs , the oil .

Do you think 300 million people sit around doing nothing does not indicate that the population is controlled by fear ?

I have tried to reason with people for many years but when they are afraid they shut you out . We have been warned over and over again through the years by great minds and yet no one listened , much greater minds than any candidate even hoped to have . They were people of insight and no one listened .

You tell me how this control is possible if it is not the willfull ignorance displayed by the people . People were sold on the idea that it's not the person but their position and what they own that makes the person . Look at reply #8 , says it well .

A good example is wal-mart and many other box stores , if it were not for the people diving on cheap prices then wal-mart woud have failed . It was the need sold to people this is what you have to have to fit into society and they advertized this and showed people you can have what you think you want and afford it all the while people cut their own throats by buying into this now their jobs are gone .

[CaptJasHook]

26. Sure, it's personal anyway.

300 million people aren't sitting around. Most of them are trying to make a living, raise their kids and find a little happiness. There are others (probably like you, though you are right I don't know you {that is an attempt at a compliment}) who are constantly working for social equality, justice and empowerment.

I tend to not look at politics as the answer to our struggles. It is merely one of many concerns. For me, the answer lies with my family, my neighborhood, my community and, maybe, when I have the energy, my city and state.

The struggle is a journey, not a destination. It is what defines us as individuals.

Actually, I am sorry if I offend you. But what I see in your Post is a rant, that amounts to whining and defeatism. Which I think is below anyone who truly believes in the Progressive cause. The moment you start calling me and the people of community sheeple, I am going to defend them. Those are the people or sheep, if you will, that we need to be guarding from the wolves and educating to defend themselves. Just like it has always been.

[blues90]

29. They have lost the definition of the progressive cause

It is most often applied to political terminology in an attempt to define a leader . I feel that politicians have lost sight of the people who have progressive views . If they had not then they would have long ago changed the ways of campaign finance . The way to do that and become a progressive is not to take corporate funding . They sell themselves out in doing so and sell out the people as well .

But you see what happens to a progressive candidate who won't take corporate funding .

[CaptJasHook]

30. I agree, but why does this surprise or outrage you?

It has been that way since FDR. And even then, progressives were ignored, until they marched in the streets and created chaos (bad for business, don't cha know?).

[blues90]

32. It does not surprise me but it does outrage me because

as long as people want change and feel they are going to get it being fooled then this is were I part with them . If they want change it starts at the bottom up and just when will this ever happen if people continue buying into the same old song ? That's the outrage . 200 years and still people have not learned a thing about how and why they are lead .

When people lose everything then maybe they will create chaos and can't be ignored . It looks like now they may be forced since many can't afford to buy the new shiney things anymore and this will affect the corporations at least the ones who sell products people can live without . It won't affect the power or food or oil or medical corporations nearly as much , but even here people are forced to cut back .

[CaptJasHook]

33. I had a great history professor

Who pointed out that anger/outrage/revolution was caused by one simple formula: rising expectations being blocked.

I don't feel outrage, because I no longer have expectations at a national level.

I personally think it is great that people can't buy shiny things, that makes them pissed and ready for change. My hope is that the change will be progressive in nature this time.

That being said, I don't think the powers that be are that stupid. Why do you think they are going to let a Dem win this time? They understand that they need to throw the dog a bone. So they set it up that the least anti-corporate Dem candidates will win the Democratic race.

It is all about appeasement, while they remain in control.

Crap, I'm starting to get depressed.

[blues90]

34. I feel pretty much the same way , my rage is still deep seeded

Not that I have any expectations at the national level , it is because of all the years that people allow this to continue . It would have been alot easier years ago when things were not so out of hand and so complicated where lying has become a refined form of art .

It still burns me that when most of the world was on our side after 9/11 and the people allowed this attack on Iraq to happen and promoted it . We really blew it there , we had the worlds support , a great opportunity to get along with the rest of the world instead of now being hated for america's actions .

[CaptJasHook]

37. Let me tell you a little story about a friend of mine.

We were both in the first Persian Gulf war together. When 9/11 happened ,he basically stopped sleeping for almost 4 months. I had to eventually intervene to get him some help.

In those 4 months, he wrote down a timeline showing what was going to happen over the next 7 years. He has been close to 90% accurate. Scary accurate. The only thing that didn't happen was an invasion of Syria. He still has time to be wrong about Iran (I hope so).

We didn't blow it. BushCo. used us, used his own country and every single manipulative trick, every ounce of good will, every bullet, every dollar he could squeeze out of the treasury. BushCo. did this to benefit less than 1% of the country.

If I believed in Hell, this entire administration and all of its allies, every one of its chicken-hawk supporters, down to the last f***ing young Republican, will be roasting.

But I don't believe in Hell, so I can only hope for justice. Which neither of these 2 candidates nor the entire Congress that we elected into office will provide.

My friend? He is now the local leader of Veterans for Peace. and he sleeps at night just fine. Where do I find my comfort? Educating as many young people as possible to think outside the mall and not be afraid of revolutionary thoughts, peaceful methods and passion for social justice.

[blues90]

38. I hope he is wrong about Iran too .

Perhaps I expect too much from americans . I recall at least 70% were for attacking Iraq and it was all the use of fear which is where bush used the people . I must say I did not buy one bit of bush's lies or all the fake so called WMD's depicted in drawings that Powell used or the vial he used in front of the UN .

I watched this sick horrid shock and awe for 5 minutes , that was enough for me .

I was never in the military , I was 18 sitting there in 1967 holding a 1-A draft card waiting for that greetings letter to come in the mail . I got a pretty good idea what the military felt like just riding on that train to take the physical where you were under their control for most of that day . Some went to boot camp right out of the building that day and others , friends of mine came back in a box who were drafted not long after . By 1967 most knew what Vietnam was all about . I would say I lucked out when the lottery came along .

Now look at today , these elections have pushed the entire occupation far in the back ground . there is something really wrong going on here .

I too doubt either candidate will do a thing about all the crimes , this is a huge mistake .

[CaptJasHook]

43. Me, too.

I think the obvious attempt at another Gulf of Tonkin incident shamed the military for now. I also think that the military is highly against going into Iran and the neo-cons are meeting a lot of resistance from the Pentagon. But if McCain gets elected, all bets are off.

I'm still confused about why I went into the military, but I am glad I did. I learned a hell of a lot about people from all around this country, I was stationed in Europe for over 2 years and learned a lot there as well. At least, I feel no shame or guilt about talking smack about the Military anymore. I feel my vet status gives me a little room to speak from experience.

As for the occupation being in the background. It is pure politics. The Surge is doing well enough with the bean counters so the Dems can't make an issue of it. Yet, the overwhelming lack of popular support for the war makes Rethugs want to avoid talking about it in any real sense either.

I'm going to go put my kid down for a nap. That always makes me feel better.

[bvar22]

25. K&R

I find the hysteria sweeping DU baffling.
What drives the fanaticism behind the camp followers of each candidate? :shrug:

If there was any significant difference between the two on Issues, Platforms, or Record, I could understand, but there isn't.

The spectacle of self-debasement and the depths of blind personal humiliation on display in GD-P is frightening.

What is driving these people?
Is there a Pied Piper playing a tune that I cannot hear?

[LWolf]

27. I agree, except that I'd cut radio out as well. n/t

[blues90]

31. There were some good liberal radio shows

Many did give Kucinich a platform that the TV media would not . Now this has changed as it appears that now liberal radio has gotten a memo . They were all for any Dem was a good choice down to Obama is their choice . I looked into clear channel where many of the liberal /progressive hosts have their shows aired and this brings in advertizement revenue . Clear channel is three brothers who are freaks and one is on the board of XM radio . Now a company Mitt owns is buying into to clear channel . I do blame some hosts for selling out yet understand why others can't , they need their job and won't find another show if they did not follow the plan .

It's one thing to stay with talking points and another to say who their candidate choice is .

[LWolf]

39. Which is exactly why I say radio, as well.

Radio is controlled and affected by the same factors tv is. :(

[Hippo_Tron]

35. Then I suggest you start working outside of electoral politics to change things

Electoral politics is all about choosing the lesser evil and for some of us that is a big deal particularly with regard to Supreme Court nominations.

If you're interested in ending corporate control then electoral politics isn't going to help you.

[bvar22]

36. What a strange thing to say for someone with a Wellstone avatar.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Hippo_Tron]

41. Wellstone was a rare exception to the rule...

And believe me whenever I find a Paul Wellstone I will work my ass off to make sure that they get elected. But expecting all politicians to act like Paul Wellstone is a pipe dream. He was an extraordinary human being and those are generally not the type of people that go into politics.

Ralph Nader's work during the 70's, much more so than what he is doing now, is a great example of how it's much easier to make the kind of changes that the OP is talking about. You do it from outside the system by changing public opinion so that it forces elected officials to do things.

[blues90]

40. There is no way I can begin to end corporate control

anyone who tries will end up missing well before your name is known . All I can do is not contribute to their cause .

[cali]

42. your post is a steaming pile. really.

you broadcast your igorance. First of all, American political campaigns have a long history of theatre. Nothing new. It's human nature. And it hasn't changed over the millenia.

Your post reads like it's straight out of counterpunch or zmag. It doesn't contain an original sounding thought or any original turn of phrase.

The bottom line, is that both Obama and Clinton are competent people with impressive intellects. They are not puppets being controlled by corporations- though it's certainly true that there's far too much corporate influence. You sound like you no jackshit about their policies or their records.

Lastly, the difference between Clinton and Obama and McCain, is huge. The latter will appoint Scalia type Justices, keep the war going and keep bush's tax cuts- just to name three things.

Oh, and I don't have TV, don't listen ever to trash radio. Read widely and pay attention. That's clearly more than you've done.

[blues90]

44. I'm glad you are happy with the way things are .

You consider your attack original ? You can tell what any person is like or what they read out of a post , please don't vote then . It's also human nature to go into attack mode when you don't like what you hear . I don't have to justify one thing to you . Go ahead and put your full faith and support into a media picked candidate .

I know very well where all these candidates stand on issues that was the point of my post .

You don't need a TV or a radio , all the same taking points land here from people who do .

[Enrique]

46. record-breaking turnout in the primaries

boilerplate cynicism isn't as convincing this time around...

STATE: MISSOURI
PREVIOUS RECORD: 528,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 778,000 (98% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +47%

STATE: ILLINOIS
PREVIOUS RECORD: 1,504,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 1,809,000 (91% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +20%

STATE: NEW YORK
PREVIOUS RECORD: 1,575,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 1,744,000 (99% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +11%

STATE: NEW JERSEY
PREVIOUS RECORD: 654,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 1,104,000 (99% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +69%

STATE: MASSACHUSETTS
PREVIOUS RECORD: 793,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 1,170,000 (98% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +48%

STATE: ARIZONA
PREVIOUS RECORD: 239,000
VOTES TONIGHT SO FAR: 314,000 (67% reporting)
% CHANGE OVER PREVIOUS RECORD: +31%

[blues90]

47. no offense but see if these numbers mean anything to the

Iraqis or the poor people or the 40 year long worker who has been without a job and lost everything .

Numbers are not inspiring and the future only holds promise to those who can hang on long enough to get there .

These are things no election can ever erase , we can't continue to ignore the resent past just so we can move into the future with a clean slate and still call ourselves anything other than heartless hypocrites .

[ooglymoogly]

48. Yes, once again we have been had...we now have a choice hand picked for us by the

corporate media. Two of the least viable candidates.

[CGowen]

50. There are differences in the countries they would prefer to attack next n/t

[Faygo Kid]

51. Those ugly things called elections.

Heard the same thing 40 years ago. And it is screwed up, indeed. But elitist attitudes aren't going to work. We have to muddle through it somehow, as each generation has and will. Perfection is beyond our expectation.

The songs aren't stupid, by the way, and the tears are real. Even if they are not yours.

[eridani]

52. Maybe they won't take on corporations now--

--but I think either is capable of that should we hit a major economic/ecological shitstorm. ("Thanks for all the dough, but I have to think of the whole country right now.") What will MAKE it happen is pressure from below. We need to focus on that.

[Zorra]

53. Way more Americans know who Stacy Peterson is than than know who John Edwards

is.

Many Democrats I talked to never even heard of Dennis Kucinich.

Fox News. American Idol.

This is our electorate.

Rah, rah, rah.

[OneBlueSky]

54. right you are . . . voting this year will be an exercise in futility . . . n/t

.

[0007]

55. Oh my fucking goodness! What has Ralphie brought us?

........or the written word.

[Seabiscuit]

56. You sure know how to brighten up one's morning cup of coffee!

:spray: