Obama misleads voters

[Evergreen Emerald]

Sen. Obama Speech in Seattle, WA, Contains Misleading Attacks on Hillary

Sen. Obama distorted Hillary’s record in a speech in Seattle, WA today. The first distortion was on diplomacy. Sen. Obama said:

"Early in this campaign, I got in an argument with Sen. Clinton because I said I would meet not just with our friends, but with our enemies. Not just with leaders we like, but leaders we detested and despised. And I was told, 'oh no, you can't do that.' And I said, 'watch me.' Because I remember what John F. Kennedy said. He said, 'you should never negotiate out of fear, but you should never fear to negotiate.'"

This is a distortion. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for pre-committing to a personal meeting in his first year with "with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea." She never said that a president should only meet with America's friends. She also promised vigorous diplomatic efforts with all countries, friend and foe. Read more here.

Next, Sen. Obama makes false claims when comparing himself and Hillary to Sen. McCain.

"If I'm having a debate with John McCain, he won't be able to say, 'well you supported the war, too,' because I didn't. He won't be able to say, 'you gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran,' because I haven't."

Let’s address Sen. Obama’s allegations one at a time.

First: Sen. Obama begins by criticizing Hillary on Iraq. Sen. Obama does not mention that -- with the exception of Hillary's opposition to the promotion of Iraq war architect Gen. George Casey -- Sen. Obama and Hillary have identical voting records on the Iraq war. Read more here.

Second: Sen. Obama then misrepresents Hillary’s position on Iran. In fact, Hillary was one of the earliest and staunchest opponents of Bush’s saber rattling on Iran, and spoke out on the issue back in February:

Hillary made a floor speech declaring that President Bush must get authorization from Congress before taking military action against Iran.

Hillary co-sponsored the Webb bill prohibiting use of funds for military action in Iran without Congressional authorization.

Sen. Obama missed the vote he is now using to attack Hillary. He issued a release 9 hours later and co-sponsored a similar bill in April. The bill was also supported by Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL), a staunch anti-war Bush critic and prominent Obama supporter. Read more here and here.

2/8/2008 5:15:29 PM #


http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cgrindley]

2. Is logic utterly alien to you?

"Early in this campaign, I got in an argument with Sen. Clinton because I said I would meet not just with our friends, but with our enemies. Not just with leaders we like, but leaders we detested and despised. And I was told, 'oh no, you can't do that.' And I said, 'watch me.' Because I remember what John F. Kennedy said. He said, 'you should never negotiate out of fear, but you should never fear to negotiate.'"

This is a distortion. Hillary criticized Sen. Obama for pre-committing to a personal meeting in his first year with "with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea." She never said that a president should only meet with America's friends

If she criticizes Obama for committing to a personal meeting with America's enemies, then by mother fucking a priori, she is AGAINST IT. Jesus. What is wrong with people here? It's basic god damn logic.

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. See this is the problem. You are buying the distortion and bullshit

She has always said that America needs to talk to the leaders of other countries. But, he said--and I cannot believe you don't remember, but I suppose it is because the media allowed him to change his statement (can you imagine Clinton getting a free pass for a statement she made?)

He said he would personally meet with the Iranian "leader" anytime. That is just plain silly. And everyone knows it. It was said in a debate.

Foreign policy requires thoughtful finesse that he does not have. And that statement proved it.

He now is attempting to change the meaning--and you guys are allowing it rather than looking at what really happened.

[cgrindley]

23. How come you know so little about international relations?

deals are not made by minions, but by powerful people hanging out together, chance encounters in elevators at international conferences, shared vacations, random stuff. If you waited for formal negotiations to work... that'd be the Paris Peace Treaty.

Have you ever worked in politics for money?

[Maribelle]

8. 'JFK made clear in his debate with Nixon that he would not “meet Mr. Khrushchev unless ...'

Now pay attention Mr. Obama:


'...unless there were some agreements at the secondary level - foreign ministers or ambassadors -- which would indicate that the meeting would have some hope of success.'


In truth, Mr. Obama, Hillary more closely matched this foreign policy philosophy of President Kennedy.

[journalist3072]

3. Just more examples of why I cannot and absolutely will not support Obama

He is totally disingenuous, and an outright liar.

[beberocks]

12. I agree completely.

[Nedsdag]

19. Fine!

Sit your butt home and let President McCain get inaugurated.

Hell, if Obama isn't the nominee, I'll vote for Madame Hillary, but I won't be happy about it.

You're not a true Democrat if you feel that way.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. Nothing new here, but many of his supporters don't even know where he stands on issues.

Why would they care if they distort her record, when they don't even know what his record is?

[kurth]

6. Love Is Blind

And Infatuation Is Passion Bereft of Certainty - or Truth.

[desi]

13. All they are interested in is that he read a great speech off a teleprompter

at the Democratic Convention. The speech sent them into a swoon and in a swoon they remain irregardless of the lies that have followed.

[Bitwit1234]

7. His members think that's ok you can lie and slam Hillary BUT

don't tell the truth about him..they melt.

[kurth]

9. The True Believer syndrome is a cognitive disorder

[ProSense]

10. Here:

facts

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. Obama has been distorting Clinton's position in an attempt to win votes

That is not "change" as I see it. That is lying.

[ProSense]

14. No, Hillary

still has trouble explaining her position on Iraq

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. You are continuing to distort Clinton's position...

They are both nearly identical with regard to Iraq. But, Obama's misinformation and distortions make him less of a candidate.

[ProSense]

18. Those are Hillary's words! n/t

[desi]

16. "There are none so blind

as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."

K&R

[fedupinBushcountry]

21. Already know

from the HillaryHub Also to me for a person who was deciding to make a vote and did not ask one single question of this administration, that tells me a lot. For criminity sakes Condi called her, then she finally asked. I want someone who is going to ask the serious questions and listen to all viewpoints, that is change, real change.

[mopinko]

15. clinton campaigns biggest lie-

First: Sen. Obama begins by criticizing Hillary on Iraq. Sen. Obama does not mention that -- with the exception of Hillary's opposition to the promotion of Iraq war architect Gen. George Casey -- Sen. Obama and Hillary have identical voting records on the Iraq war. Read more here.


except for the fact that hillary voted for the iwr, after not doing her homework, or looking out the window, apparently, while obama spoke out against it. it kinda reminds me of the stories kids tell when a fight breaks out. they all start the story at the time that makes them look the best. nice try. but your cut and paste bullshit is just that. bullshit.

[Evergreen Emerald]

20. See, you continue to buy the bullshit rather then look at the facts.

1. Voted for IWR--look at her speech. Remember the context of the era.
2. Obama spoke against it: ONCE. Know that Obama had nothing to gain or lose in giving a meaningless speech, but when he ACTUALLY could make a difference--he GAVE NO SPEECHES, he OFFERED NO BILLS, he VOTED FOR FUNDING AGAIN AND AGAIN. When it mattered, he was timid and weak.
3. Not doing homework: more distortion and lies. She knew that bill inside and out. She did her research and had her assistants brief it. She talked to Clinton's old war cabinet, and the new one. She did her homework.
4. Identical records on Iraq; EXACTLY. Obama attempts to say he opposed the war and she is a monger WHEN THEIR VOTES ARE IDENTICAL. HE IS LYING. That IS the point.


Bullshit is your intellectual lazy way of looking at IWR. Go ahead, use the right-wing talking points by blaming Clinton for Bush's war. But remember, that Obama HAS DONE NOTHING since becoming a Senator. HIS ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN HIS WORDS.

[ShadowLiberal]

22. These are reasonable descriptions of the facts

I think you're overreacting a bit.

Yeah he's oversimplifying it a bit about meeting with leaders who we don't like, but it's hard to explain the complicated reasoning Hillary gave in a speech like that.

Also I think it's quite fair to say that Hillary is vulnerable from having voted for the Iraq war while Obama isn't. I mean sure McCain could say they voted the same on Iraq, but Obama could simply say something like "that's because I joined the senate after Hillary turned against the war". What can Hillary say to justify why she voted for the war when McCain brings it up, the fact of the matter is that Hillary was one of the leading democrats in pushing for the war.