People here who write that they would not vote for either Obama or HRC in November...

[Meshuga]

...are talking out of their asses. They have to be.

I don't believe they are so fucking stupid to the point of helping a Republican win in November by not voting or voting third party or voting for McCain if the opposing candidate is the nominee.

And I have a hard time believing that Democrats would be dumb enough to let some message board influence their vote in November. I can see them not supporting Obama or Clinton in the nomination process and hoping that one of them loses. I can even see Edwards supporters casting their ballots for Edwards in the primaries while he is out of the race. But not supporting either one of them in November is STUPIDITY, pure and simple. Unless you don't mind another Republican White House, a continuation of the war in Iraq, more conservative judges being appointed, and failed Republican policies.

On edit: :hide:

[existentialist]

1. Yes, and what are they going to do

if Hillary and Obama end up on the same ticket--in either order?

[Meshuga]

2. Vote for that ticket

In either order.

[existentialist]

7. I would certainly hope so.

[BklynChick]

3. I wont' vote for HRC in my state because we always go blue. my vote essentially doesn't matter. if

it did, i would grudingly vote for her.

[democrattotheend]

26. That was my initial thinking in 2004

I was thinking about writing in Howard Dean instead of voting for Kerry, but then the Republicans pulled their annual stunt of making Democrats worry about New Jersey, so I figured I'd better vote for Kerry. I could never forgive myself if Bush had won New Jersey and I hadn't voted for Kerry.

Of course, Kerry has grown on me a lot since 2004, so I don't regret my vote at all.

[Meshuga]

36. Would you have regrets if you had not voted for Kerry in 2004

Now that he has grown on you? :-)

[WillParkinson]

4. Believe what you will

Obviously you're not interested in the "why".

I will not support either of them. I do not support any candidate who helps to treat gays and lesbians as 2nd class citizens. And I will not vote for a candidate simply because they have a (D) next to their name. I've done it since I was 18. Then came DOMA and DADT.

Thanks, but I'm tired of being a stepping stone. Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton have done nothing to earn my vote or my trust.

[Meshuga]

6. You deserve 4 years of McCain

Making things even worse for all of us.

Thanks for throwing the rest of us under the bus with you. :eyes:

[WillParkinson]

13. Oh, so terribly sorry...

Let me throw myself down for those who don't care that I'm under it.

Yes, it's a wonderful regard you have for a Democrat. Thanks mightily.

[Meshuga]

What regard do you have for other Democrats when you allow a McCain to get elected

:eyes:

[WillParkinson]

37. Oh, that's rich!

I "allow". That's rich. For 25 years I've voted Democrat in every presidential and congressional election, whether I believe the candidate would be good or not. During that time we've had Democractic presidents. And what happened to me and the rest of the gay community? They "allowed" us to be scapegoats. They "allowed" DOMA. They "allowed" DADT. They "allowed" bills like the Hate Crimes bill to languish and die and untimely death, despite the fact that they had a majority in Congress.

Don't tell me what I "allowed". Because I've "allowed" them to get my vote and then turn around and use it against me. As you so nicely pointed out, we're under the bus. I don't see many in the Democratic party hurrying to pull us out, either.

And then I see Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton talk about how we should be allowed "civil" relationships but that marriage is against their belief.

Quite honestly, I do not give a tinkers damn about their belief. I care about my partner receiving benefits I've earned from the government should I die. I care about being able to make choices for my partner should be become incapacitated. I care about the life that we've built together. I've cared about these things for years and how close are the Democrats to ensuring that I get those rights? Oh, yes, DOMA.

Whatever. Preach to someone else. The Democrats have not EARNED my vote. And they will not earn it if they keep turning their back on me.

[Meshuga]

18. duplicate n/t

[Joe Fields]

14. You haven't been on this earth long, son, have you?

:eyes:

[Meshuga]

17. What is that supposed to mean?

Please explain.

[Meshuga]

9. In addition, genius

Wait and see the Supreme court nominees President McCain would introduce. I feel sorry for gays if that ever happens and I will be blaming dumb voters who can't see the bigger picture and enable a fucker like McCain to have a chance in November. Thanks again for being so fucking short sighted!

[WillParkinson]

10. And thank you...

For your kindness and consideration.

Oh, and your wonderful command of the English language.

[Meshuga]

15. Duplicate n/t

[Meshuga]

16. I'm not too worried about your insult

Since English is my second language. I'm not a native speaker. But at least I am not moronic enough to help McCain in November.

[WillParkinson]

38. Gee, I'm terribly sorry...

Here, let me just suck it up for another election cycle and pretend that my partner, my family, and my life don't mean a damn thing. Oh, wait. They don't. At least not to the Democrats trying to get elected. The only thing that means something to them is my vote. And then I should just go back to my closet like a good little gay boy.

Sorry. I'm 44 years old. I'm beyond the stage of just giving it away.

[Meshuga]

39. Sorry, but you might just be giving it away to someone

who will do more damage than you can imagine to your family and to your rights.

[WillParkinson]

41. What part do you not understand?

I HAVE NO RIGHTS. As a gay individual I have basic rights. As a gay man with a spouse? Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Sorry that it doesn't fit into your world view, but this is my world. This is the world I have to live in day in and day out.

This is the world that my husband had heart surgery in. If his family had wanted to they could have kept me out of the hospital. This is the world that if the doctor had questions about him I could not have answered them if his family didn't allow it.

I am NOT a person with a spouse. I'm just barely a person.

And really, I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for me.

[verges]

21. And McCain has?

Do you honestly feel that any Republican will serve the gay community better than even a poor Democrat? Don't think of it as voting for them; think of it as voting the Republicans OUT! That should be the main goal.

As a secondary point/question: What if McCain picks Huck as VP? McCain is a 72 year old cancer survivor. Is he going to last four years? If he doesn't, then Huck becomes Prez and that would certainly help the gay community, wouldn't it?!

Either a Democrat or Republican is going to win. Let's make sure it's a Democrat.

[WillParkinson]

40. Then let's make sure...

The Democrats finally understand Gay people. Let's make sure they stop pandering to the right and using us as bargaining chips. Because I, for one, am tired of being used.

And the Democrats had the House and the Senate since the last election cycle. What, exactly, have they done to endear themselves to the gay community? Hell, what have they done to endear themselves to the public who voted for them? They had a majority and yet they rolled for the lame president how often?

Yeah, they really deserve to be in office.

[verges]

47. So, do you think

you'll be better off with McCain?

[WillParkinson]

49. No, I'm saying...

Show me what the difference is between them. Or, in this case, indifference.

Tell me something...ANYTHING...that they've done to deserve my vote other than "they're not McCain".

[Thrill]

5. Better do whats best for yourself and family

If McCain is elected, get ready for a Draft. Hes going to need the soldiers to fight his wars. And he offers nothing on the economy and health care. Whoever doesn't vote for the nominee. Will it feel it for the rest of their lives.

Because the bottom line. There is little to no difference policy wise between Hillary and Barack

[Meshuga]

8. The problem is that there are the one issue, one dimensional voters

Who can't see beyound their one or two issues and prefer to get fucked on all sides by McCain. The problem is that we all have to pay for their stupidity.

[WillParkinson]

12. No, sir...

The problem is people who think that not everyone is important. That it's OK to trample on others as long as they get what they want on their way to the top.

If you truly believe what you espouse then you should work to ensure that the needs of all the people are met. Not sit in judgment about how short-sighted they are because they do not agree with you.

[Meshuga]

19. So you allow the McCain to come in...

...making things even worse for those you say you care about? Sorry, but I think that is dumb.

[WillParkinson]

43. As I said, believe what you'd like

When someone can explain to me why I'm supposed to come out of the closet to vote for the (D)emocrat simply because of the (D) and then jump back in the closet and keep my mouth shut, maybe then I'll reconsider.

When someone can tell me exactly what Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton will do for my brothers and sisters other than provide lip service, then maybe I'll reconsider.

When either candidate, Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama, show one iota of true compassion for the gay community, then I'll reconsider.

[stray cat]

11. Unless they really do want 4-8 more years of W-politics

[Meshuga]

20. I know, I understand it if they want more of W-politics

But helping McCain when they can't stand W-politics is really dumb.

[LWolf]

22. No, I'm talking straight out of my mouth, thanks.

My IQ is about 140, and I am a post graduate, since you are so compassionately concerned about my mental capacities.

I have never voted for a republican for national or state office, and will not do so now. I am not "helping" republicans.

I mind another corporate administration in the WH, regardless of party. I'm not going to help put ANYONE in the WH that I don't think would be good for the nation, regardless of party.

My vote is the party's to earn, and the way to do that is to support candidates that can earn my vote. It's not to turn up the attack propaganda machine, obviously. All that does is tempt me to tender a "fuck you" vote in November.

Luckily for you, I'm pretty good at resisting temptation. Get me a candidate that I can work and vote for, and I will. Disdain my criteria for such a candidate, and it's the party's choice to lose my vote in November.

The Democratic Party doesn't even want all Democrats to have a chance to vote for the nominee before crowning one, let alone make sure that all Democrats have an appropriate field to choose from. Perhaps your angst would be better directed towards the corrupt primary process that disenfranchises so many potential GE voters.

[Meshuga]

23. Having a 140 IQ and being a post graduate does not guarantee common sense

In my opinion it makes no sense allowing a Republican like McCain to continue destroying our country. The price of a "fuck you" vote in November is a price to big to pay. No matter how high a person's IQ is and no matter the level of education, a "fuck you" vote in November, in my opinion, is a pretty fucking stupid move.

[LWolf]

24. Of course it doesn't indicate common sense.

I just tossed it out there because you called me "fucking stupid."

It makes no sense to me to nominate a candidate that will not or cannot unify the vote, since we are talking about common sense.

It makes some sense to me to disenfranchise your own voters by narrowing the field before they get to vote, or by demanding a nominee before the primaries are done, let alone before the convention. It makes sense if the goal is to manipulate a corrupt system, anyway.

It makes no sense to me to call people whose vote you are in danger of losing "fucking stupid," as if they were recalcitrant children that you can bully into voting your way.

It makes no sense to me to use my comment about a "fuck you" vote without the context it was given in: tempting, but not reality.

The only sense EITHER of your posts make to me is in understanding them to be juvenile temper tantrums and attempts to bully voters.

You don't represent the Democratic Party well indulging in such behavior, you know.

[Meshuga]

30. I stand by my words

It makes no sense to me to use my comment about a "fuck you" vote without the context it was given in: tempting, but not reality.

Sorry for thinking you were not voting for the Democratic nominee in November and missing your point. My bad. but I was influenced by your title "No, I'm talking straight out of my mouth, thanks" in context with the OP.

I have no beef with anybody having a problem with the choices we have for the nomination. That's not the point. I agree that the nomination process is horrible. In the OP I even stated that I have no beef with people voting for Edwards, for example, even when he is out of the race. It is unfortunate that his supporters don't get to have their voices heard. The same goes for the supporters of all the other candidates who have dropped from the race.

But I do have a problem with people who will enable a McCain presidency in November by staying at home, voting third party, or voting for McCain, UNLESS they don't mind a McCain White House. And I will speak out because, if McCain wins in November, his presidency will affect my life. So I will say something about it even if you see it as "juvenile temper tantrums" and "attempts to bully voters". I don't expect people to change their ways because of something I say on a message board. I'm here to give my opinion and not to dissuade anybody.

[LWolf]

44. I think you SHOULD express your concerns.

I think those concerns would be better expressed differently.

Where ever we are speaking, expressing our opinions is our right, and doing so with civility and humility is our responsibility.

[musicblind]

25. I am gay

I have an IQ of 137, tested at the University of Chapel Hill. I have two degrees. One in Broadcast and Cinema with a concentration in Media Writing and the other in Psychology. Plus two years at an arts conservatory. I am now applying to grad school. Despite ALL of this evidence that the previous posters have given to support their opinions (why any of this is evidence to support your political opinion on a messageboard is beyond me) I disagree.

It would be shooting the gay community in the back by not voting in Nov. You will be a black smear across the legacy of civil and gay rights by not doing your civic duty! If you do not vote against John McCain in November then you are no better than the people voting for him, and any atrocities he commits against LGBT while in office will be your fault.

[Meshuga]

32. Exactly!

:toast:

[WillParkinson]

42. No, it won't...

Any atrocities that he commits against the LGBT community will be the fault of those who take us for granted so much that they only care about our vote. If they stood firmly with the community and don't allow people onstage who give hate a face, if they don't talk about how gays are worthy of civil rights but not full marriage, if they stop treating us like crap, THEN they deserve my vote.

Almost 25 years and I'm not much better off as a gay man than I was when I was 18. Yes, I realize it moves slowly sometimes, but it needs to move.

[butterfly77]

27. I could say that I won't ..

considering the fact that his supporters keep telling me that he has overwhelming support. I could say if he is the nominee he doesn't need my vote because he would win anyway with out it.

[Meshuga]

34. That's something you will have to decide for yourself

I wouldn't base my decision on what people say on a message board.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. 'Tis the season for Loyalty Oaths.

Complete with threats and doomsday scenarios of the end of the world if I don't cast my vote the way dictated by the Party Purists.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[Meshuga]

31. Vote on principles

But get McCain as a result? No thanks. :-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Well, it' your vote.

[oasis]

29. Michele Obama will have to "think about" supporting Hillary if she gets the nomination.

:eyes:CNN's Howard Kurtz of "Reliable Sources" asked why there wasn't more media coverage about this high profile Democrat defector.

[fishwax]

33. not everyone would hurt the dem nominee by not voting ro by voting third party

I'll be voting for the dem nominee, but it wouldn't matter much if I didn't, as Illinois will be going blue regardless of my vote :)

[Meshuga]

35. Fair enough, post #3 made a similar point. n/t

[pampango]

46. I will secretly commit to voting for either candidiate in the GE, but will maintain a public

posture that if either candidate gets the nomination by "unfair" (as defined by me) means, I will have to give long thought to what I do.

My reasoning is that I want our candidates and superdelegates to think long and hard before they subvert the "will of the people". The more they think "these fools out here will vote for our nominee no matter how we go about this", the more likely they are to do something stupid. I want them realize that some Democratic voters care HOW our nominee is selected, not just who it is.

(I know that it's kind of hard to keep my commitment secret once it's posted on GDP, but I hope you get what I mean.) ;)

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. THEY SHOULD BE BANNED

Seriously. If you're not supporting the Dem nominee, this ain't the board for you.

Fuck off slowly.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillParkinson]

52. Riiiiiight...

I can vote for the entire Democratic ticket, but if I don't support those who don't support me then I need to "fuck off slowly".

Oh, how I wish people could see beyond their own little bubble. What's the saying? Walk a mile in my shoes?

Do I want McCain to win? No. Do I think someone automatically deserves my vote because they've got a (D) next to their name? No, I don't.

I'm terribly sorry to everyone who thinks that I'm a bad Democrat or that I'm pig-headed or intransigent. I'm fed up with the lip service that's being paid to gay people to get their votes. And then, after the election, we go back to having a pat on the head and shuffle back to our closets.

As I said, tell me ONE reason that I, as a gay man, should vote for either candidate, and the fact that they are not John McCain can't be it.