He ain't a saint: A citizen's guide to Barack Obama

[Caro]

Why do Peggy Noonan, George Will and David Brooks favor Obama? (David Seaton’s News Links)
Because they are terrified of Hillary Clinton, that's why… It is this simple: in recent decades the Clintons are the only Democrats that win elections against Republicans... They don't want to ever face them again, no more complicated than that. As soon as Barack Obama is declared the official candidate of the Democratic party the voters will be treated to something similar to the old TV show, "This is your Life"...

And below are some of the things they’ll bring out about him. Now, to those who will surely say that I shouldn’t do the right’s work for them, I say you must have been living under a rock for the last 18 years. The information below is already in the belly of the beast, waiting for the right moment to regurgitate all over the “transformation”. And to those who say I shouldn’t “bash” Obama, I say, it’s not bashing if it’s true. How can Democratic primary voters possibly make an informed decision about which candidate to vote for, when they know almost nothing about one of the two who remain?

We Illinois progressives sent Obama to the U.S. Senate, where he promptly joined the Joe Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party. He’s not a progressive. But he’s a master at pretending to be one. "Obama is a company man.”

His economic advisers are very conservative, from the University of Chicago-Milton Friedman school of economics. My favorite economist, Paul Krugman, caught Obama using right-wing talking points on what to do about Social Security and about his health care plan.

His voting record is pro-business and pro-war. He glorifies American imperialism. He flip-flopped on the Palestinians and Israel, and now is AIPAC-approved.

He has shown repeatedly what good friends he is with anti-gay African American preachers.

He misuses history, according to a prominent historian.

He, uh, stretches the truth. Example:

Trying to sound authentically African-American during a speech memorializing the forty-second anniversary of the 1965 Voting Rights March at the Pettis Bridge in Selma, Obama claimed that his black (Kenyan) father and white (Kansan) mother married and conceived the future Barockstar because of the great Civil Rights struggles fought in Selma and Birmingham, Alabama… (Obama 2007)

Wow. Too bad Barack Obama Jr. was born in 1961, two years before the famous campaign to desegregate Birmingham, three years before the Civil Rights Act, and four years before the famous Selma march!

His chief political adviser is a Daley machine strategist.

And then there’s his Tony Rezko problem.

When are we Americans going to stop getting fooled and fooled and fooled again?

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[zanne]

1. Now THAT reads like a GOP smear email! nt

[ClericJohnPreston]

9. Why

is something that is truthful, backed by documentation, posted to make you think, so offensive to Obamites?

Ahh, yes.

COGNITIVE DISSONANCE IS A BITCH.

[ClericJohnPreston]

10. K&R

:kick: AND RECOMMENDED!

[zanne]

12. Too bad Hillary is losing, Cleric! nt

Yup. The truth is hard.

[ClericJohnPreston]

17. Typical Obamite reasoning...

I supported the only TRUE liberal in the race..JOHN EDWARDS.

I'd have to really hold my nose from the stench of Obama's CORPORATISM, when I go to vote in the GE.

The only truth is that Obama's cadre of voters is the most unsophisticated voters as a bloc, since Bush's value's voters in 2000.

[Caro]

53. I was an Edwards supporter, too.

I ended up voting for Clinton because, of the two remaining candidates, her platform is the more progressive.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Usrename]

63. Ok, I am confused by the whole premis of the OP.

It says that once Obama wins the nomination then the right wing will start to smear him with the truth.

Then the OP furnishes a list of smears that the right wing will use against, and the whole list is stuff designed to prove he isn't really liberal or progressive.

Why would the right-wing opposition want to make this argument to the public? Why would they ever claim that Obama isn't liberal enough?

It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Qutzupalotl]

71. You're right. It doesn't make sense.

Crappy premise, good execution or something.

And even if they did want to use these smears, why should we care? No one listens to them except the dittoheads, and they're a dying breed. We, on the other hand, are breeding like rabbits. :)

[rodeodance]

80. "We, on the other hand, are breeding like rabbits. :)"--oh gawd!!

[Qutzupalotl]

84. Happy Valentine's Day!

:)

[rodeodance]

90. well thank you.

[Qutzupalotl]

91. I can't take credit

It must have been someone else donating to you...but thank you. I will pay it forward.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

76. not in the OP: THE REZKO PRIMAR FOR NEWBIES

THE REZKO PRIMAR BY ARCH PUNDIT

THE REZKO PRIMAR BY ARCH PUNDIT

The best synopsis of the Obama Rezko relationship was done by the Trib on January 23rd:

Both men declined to comment on their once-close friendship. Obama has been accused of no wrongdoing involving Rezko and has insisted that he never used his office to benefit Rezko.

Thus far, there is little in the public record to suggest otherwise, and the few exceptions that have come to light appear minor. On Capitol Hill, Obama once gave a summer internship to the son of a Rezko business associate on Rezko’s recommendation. Earlier, as a state senator, Obama was one of several South Side political and community leaders who wrote state and city officials urging approval of public funding for a senior housing project involving Rezko.

But when Rezko pushed for passage in Springfield of a major gambling measure, Obama vocally opposed it.

Obama publicly apologized for his 2005 property deal with Rezko, calling it “boneheaded” because Rezko was widely reported to be under grand jury investigation at the time. And Obama has given to charities $85,000 in Rezko-linked campaign contributions, including $40,035 last weekend following a published report suggesting that Rezko funneled a $10,000 donation to Obama through a business associate. Aides to Obama say the senator had no knowledge of any such scheme.


Rezko is tied to nearly every major politician in Illinois over the last couple decades going back to Jim Edgar under whom he received his first state contract. Rezko’s reputation as a slumlord largely got started after Obama was not practicing law full time and was largely dealt with by the City of Chicago and not state government entities.


FOR A FULL OVER VIEW SEE THE ARCH PUNDIT'S PRIMAR ON REZKO
http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/01/24/the-rezko-primer /

[Radical Activist]

113. Edwards wasn't liberal enough for the marxist publications you linked to.

Of course Obama isn't liberal enough for them. No Democrat is. Get real.

[rodeodance]

81. I have to agree with this:

The only truth is that Obama's cadre of voters is the most unsophisticated voters as a bloc, since Bush's value's voters in 2000.

[Qutzupalotl]

85. Strange. David Brooks calls Obama supporters the more educated ones.

Is it the other way now?

[ClericJohnPreston]

108. Why thank you

Rodeodance.

Next time, be sure to give me attribution on my quotes. :) :hug:

[9119495]

137. Tell that to my degrees...

Congratulations on the dumbest post I've seen in months. The OP makes points, has things to say...but you brand Obama supporters as unsophisticated. Funny, because the god, gays, guns people at my caucuses all went to Edwards and Clinton. That is not a comment about Edwards and Clinton, but in your world it would be okay for me to say their "cadres" of voters were "unsophisticated."

Check the demographics of each candidate's electorate. I await your apology though I'm not deputized by the "cadre" to accept it.

[ingac70]

114. Please! Edwards was a DLC New Democrat in '04...

Now you goofs like to pretend all his pro-corporate, Pro-WAR votes never happened.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

33. Don't forget "He's not black enough" n/t

[Jim Sagle]

26. Like FUCK it does.

MakeThemAccountable is RABIDLY PARTISAN DEMOCRAT - and THAT'S why they hate Obama.

[sendero]

75. As if ...

... HRC is a real progressive on the issues that matter.

There isn't a nickel's difference between them policy-wise, as far as I can tell, except Obama ACTS LIKE he wants to end the Iraq war.

HRC cannot even muster an CONVINCING ACT on that issue, so I'm rooting for Obama.

[Jim Sagle]

99. Too bad he doesn't vote that way.

There isn't a nickel's difference between them policy-wise, as far as I can tell, except HRC ACTS LIKE she wants universal health care.

Obama cannot even muster an CONVINCING ACT on that issue, so I'm rooting for HRC.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

41. WHY DO ANN COULTER AND RUSH LIMBAUGH FAVOR HILLARY n/t

[Spiffarino]

144. Because a Clinton presidency would boost their flagging careers. n/t

[fooj]

69. A GOP "smear" e-mail would be filled with lies.

There's plenty of evidence that PROVES that this isn't a personal smear.

I've been wondering the same. When are the American people going to grab a clue? It's not like the info isn't out there. Geez....

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

82. ding ding ding

and they keep posting variations of the same thing, and I keep rebutting it
with the Rezko primar.

[saltpoint]

2. Well, Senator Obama appeared to appeal to quite a few of our fellow Democrats

in three or four states yesterday. He appears to enjoy the support of a very diverse group of elected officials. He appears to be connecting with voters.

Your grocery list is a bit of tap dancing, IMO.

[stray cat]

3. I probably don't qualify as a saint either.....

[AGirl]

4. k and r!

[sharp_stick]

5. The only part this got right is that he's no saint

the rest is right off the puke playbook. What a steaming pile of dung this is, and all produced by some guy that I've never heard of before.

I don't know what Paul Street has against Obama but man he's really into smearing him, that's about all he's done.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

34. you forgot that he is Too black to be elected n/t

[Jim Sagle]

38. And that has fuck-all to do with anything I or the article said.

Go take a Learning Annex course in remedial reading.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

42. worse, Mr. Brock O'Bama is Irish! n/t

[Jim Sagle]

48. And what else is there to say about it?

;)

[Olney Blue]

6. So U.S. politicians must have saint status in order to be elected?

:eyes:

[SlipperySlope]

14. Hillary can't smear a saint, now can she?

So the only way to avoid Hillary's smear it to be a saint, but since there are no saints, then we are all "fair game" when we cross her plans.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

36. but she can cry upon demand, and it gets her sympathy

when she is attacked, she can cry on tv!

[rodeodance]

79. ha ha--jealous much?? ha ha

[OzarkDem]

23. They can't be vulnerable to attack

that will make them lose the GE or saddle them with an unproductive administration. Bill Clinton was able to deal with faux scandals during his administration and still accomplished a great deal, but that's very rare.

No candidate is without some baggage, but there's a limit.

[DS1]

7. I don't consider him one, so this isn't news to me

but I still prefer him over Hillary

[burythehatchet]

8. Give it up loser, its over.

[Armstead]

11. I seriously doubt the GOP is going to call Obama "too conservative"

Some of us Democrats (myself included) might be wary of Obama for that reason. But I KNOW that Hillary is a Conservative Corporate Democrat.

However, anyone who claims that the GOP would base their attacks on Obama as being too conservative and too business-friendly is an Ostrich of the first degree.

[Caro]

56. No, but all they care about is power.

And that means they want a Republican to be elected president. They'll use these items to build on a lie about, and build them into scandals, with the help of Drudge and the Washington Post, if not the New York Times as well.

So those who think he'll bring unity and bipartisanship to the process are fooling themselves.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Radical Activist]

112. They will absolutely attack him for being too liberal.

Some people on DU will get a real education on how liberal he is and they might finally figure out how wrong they are about calling him conservative.

[Cha]

13. Yeah, we know Obama's not a fucking saint..

but he had to courage to stand up against the stupid fucking war on Iraq, didn't he?

[butterfly77]

22. So is that the only reason that he gets to be the president...

along with hope...

[Cha]

27. Take your disingenous

question and go ask someone who can't see right through it.

[Big Blue Marble]

46. That is a damn good reason.

It works for me.

[Tellurian]

39. Obama wasn't in the US Senate at the time.. If he was, he would have voted "PRESENT"

as he always does when he straddles that picket fence!

Obama is noting more than an ambitious slime-ball politician!

Get Over it! He's loose to the Republicans.

Republicans would relish an Obama candidacy because it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Forget it!

[OzarkDem]

64. No he didn't - he's voted to fund it

Obama has nothing to stand on re that issue.

[in_cog_ni_to]

100. Courage to stand up against the war? He lives in a VERY SAFE....BLUE State, Illinois and WON! It

hardly took COURAGE to take a stand here. Honestly. Had it been hard, difficult or against the popular opinion here, HE WOULDN'T BE IN THE SENATE. He would have LOST his election. Courage my ass.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

134. Not exactly

He has yet to vote against a single war appropriations bill. Not exactly the hell-bent-on-ending-the-war position, as far as I can tell. Of course, the same may be said for Senator Clinton.

I haven't gotten a primary vote yet, and won't till mid-May. My choices have already been taken away by folks in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

All I know at this point is that I'm going to vote for the Democratic nominee in November. I refuse to be drawm into the childish, bullshit arguments over substance-free issues between the Hillarites and the Obamanians. I don't like the idea of voting for one to "stop" the other, so I may even leave the presidential nomination blank in the primary, leaving it to the two-year-olds in the Clinton and Obama camps to fling ca-ca at each other. I have no confidence whatsoever that even if I did cast a primary vote for President that I wouldn't be disenfranchised by the SuperDelegates anyway.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

135. Not exactly

He has yet to vote against a single war appropriations bill. Not exactly the hell-bent-on-ending-the-war position, as far as I can tell. Of course, the same may be said for Senator Clinton.

I haven't gotten a primary vote yet, and won't till mid-May. My choices have already been taken away by folks in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

All I know at this point is that I'm going to vote for the Democratic nominee in November. I refuse to be drawm into the childish, bullshit arguments over substance-free issues between the Hillarites and the Obamanians. I don't like the idea of voting for one to "stop" the other, so I may even leave the presidential nomination blank in the primary, leaving it to the two-year-olds in the Clinton and Obama camps to fling ca-ca at each other. I have no confidence whatsoever that even if I did cast a primary vote for President that I wouldn't be disenfranchised by the SuperDelegates anyway.

[ClericJohnPreston]

15. For what its worth

The OP is a rock-solid blue Democrat, with a liberal website.

The key word is LIBERAL. In other words, what Obama is not.

[Big Blue Marble]

29. Obama has been called the most liberal senator.

"Obama Ranked Most Liberal Senator in 2007"

http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/01/obama_ranked_most_liberal_sena_1.html

The senator is a rock-solid Democrat.

[Liberal Veteran]

43. Truth to tell, if Joe Lieberman were our candidate, he would called "the most liberal"

Those "most liberal" rankings tend to be bullshit.

[Big Blue Marble]

44. If you mean called liberal by the right,

of course you are accurate. The charges here are being made by Democrats.

And they have to be challenged. How ironic that he is called conservative
by the supporters of the DLC candidate.

[fooj]

70. The fact that his present votes create that liberal distortion means nothing, eh?

Bush has been referred to as the "uniter", remember? How's that working for ya?

[in_cog_ni_to]

101. No he's not. He just plays one on teevee. You just fell for the performance he's been giving.

sucker.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

35. a Pro War liberal? n/t

[gordianot]

16. The Leiberman wing is a serious problem, it is true.

Although I voted for Obama in the Primary I am troubled by his ties to Joe Lieberman. My sincerest hope is someday he (Joe) has an extended stay in a Federal prison with the other traitorous neo-cons. Joe is not one to have any Senatorial ties and have a desire to be President.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. If it means anything to you, Ned Lamont endorsed Obama. nt

[gordianot]

31. Al Gore also chose Joe as his Vice Presidential nominee

No slam to Obama, but why choose Joe as your Senatorial Mentor?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. My understanding is they are kinda chosen for you. nt

[gordianot]

50. I've heard that, I've also heard it is ultimately your choice.

I have 3 as of now minor strikes against him.

1. His association with Lieberman.
2. He voted for Condi as Secretary of State.
3. His pandering to the so called Reagan Democrats, may they all burn in Republican hell.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

18. I'm not voting for Obama because he's pure or a "saint"

I am voting for Obama because he is on the right side of the issues.

No candidate in any election can ever claim that they are completely pure. You can dig up dirt (true or manufactured) on anybody. In any case, this article is really one-sided and biased, and not worth any attention.

[ClericJohnPreston]

86. What issues and what positions

Tell me three positions he has which have specificity and to which you don't have to LINK.

I'll be here all night.........

[in_cog_ni_to]

94. He sure IS on the RIGHT. He's no Progressive, that's for damn sure. n/t

[Cassandra]

20. Fortunately, we're not electing a saint.

[OzarkDem]

21. Thank you for your honesty

Hearing from people who live in a candidate's district can always provide an objective assessment of their record.

[SoxFan]

24. Hey, I found your picture!

[cali]

25. Pitiful. Have a diaper

you need a change.

[Donnachaidh]

51. here's a blanket

you need a nap.

[Qutzupalotl]

30. It's bashing if it's based on lopsided opinion pieces.

As for the Lieberman wing charge...Lieberman was assigned to be Obama's mentor when he joined the Senate. Obama didn't CHOOSE Lieberman.

[Caro]

57. These are articles that present facts, not opinions.

Dispute the facts, or go away.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Qutzupalotl]

65. I just did.

The OP says Obama promptly joined the Lieberman wing of the Democratic party. Bullshit.

[rgbecker]

93. Thanks Caro for the great link Progressive Punch....But a closer look is

in order. Does Obama's rating as 43, next to Lieberman's 44 rate him a standing in the Lieberman wing of the party? Here's a break down from that site of Clinton's record compared to Obama's.

It shows 14 categories total. In two categories, the two candidates are tied. In 6 Obama scores more progressive than Clinton and in 6 other categories, Clinton scores more progressive than Obama. Seems like hardly worthwhile mentioning, unless you have some particular issue you are especially interested in and then I suppose it might be worth looking closely at the exact bill being voted rather than to rely on these guys to make the decision.

Anyway great link, I'll add it to my list.


OBAMA Clinton

All issues 88.37 24/99 91.11 17/99T

Aid to Less Advantaged People, at Home & Abroad (17 subcategories)97.96 11/98 97.70 12/98T

Corporate Subsidies (14 subcategories) 100.00 1/98T 100.00 1/98T

Education, Humanities, & the Arts (3 subcategories) 100.00 1/98T 88.89 33/98T

Environment (15 subcategories) 100.00 1/98T 93.33 18/98

Fair Taxation (6 subcategories) 100.00 1/98T 97.52 14/98T

Family Planning (2 subcategories) 80.00 30/87 87.50 16/87T

Government Checks on Corporate Power (30 subcategories) 97.96 5/98 95.28 12/98

Health Care (15 subcategories) 95.65 30/98T 97.83 18/98T

Housing (2 subcategories) 100.00 1/87T 100.00 1/87T

Human Rights & Civil Liberties (9 subcategories) 75.00 42/99 84.00 28/99T

Justice for All: Civil and Criminal (7 subcategories) 89.66 25/99 94.74 18/99

Labor Rights (8 subcategories) 90.91 20/98 91.18 19/98

Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful (15 subcategories) 90.70 26/99 94.30 19/99

War & Peace (18 subcategories) 87.50 29/99 83.33 34/99T

http://progressivepunch.yvod.com/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=NYI&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=55&y=13

[Caro]

59. The Black Agenda Report?

The Black Commentator? Lopsided?

They're predisposed to like Obama. And they don't.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Qutzupalotl]

72. Wouldn't you say he's not black enough?

[Medusa]

37. Straight from the presses at the GOP. . .

thank you. Now I don't have to go slumming at Free Republic to take their pulse over there. You've done that for us.

[OzarkDem]

66. Got proof?

The sources in the post are not right wing.

If you dispute their veracity, you'll need to provide some evidence.

[Orangepeel]

40. What a laundry list of right wing bullshit

There is nothing on that list that can't apply equally to Clinton.

The argument that right wing people support him because they are afraid of her is just stupid and it is easy enough to find examples of right wing people taking the opposite view (e.g., Pat Buchanan)

He's pro-business, pro-war and pro-AIPAC? Compared to whom? To Clinton? That's a laugh.

He consorts with anti-gay preachers? Yes, which I hate. But 1) so do all Democrats courting the African American church vote (which is all Democrats including Clinton), and Obama does have a voting record of supporting gay rights.

He told a story about his conception that didn't match dates? Clinton once claimed she was named after Edmund Hilary, even though he hadn't yet climbed Mt. Everest when she was born. That comes straight from RW idiots, which just shows the level of this anti-Obama smear.

Her main strategist is MARK PENN!

She has as many problems with shady contributors (Hsu) as he does.

Now, all of the shit I just wrote about Clinton is also a laundry list of right wing bullshit. That's the point.. No successful politician is a saint. It is NOT foolish to vote for someone who inspires you because bullshit about him can be spun into dirt

[Caro]

61. No politician is a saint.

So stop being starry eyed, Obama fans.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[Orangepeel]

62. Anyone who thinks his/her candidate is a saint is bound to be disappointed.

After Edwards dropped out, I chose Obama as my candidate because I think that he'll be as good a president as Clinton and has a better chance of winning.

I'm not starry eyed, but I will certainly welcome enthusiastic newcomers to the Party.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. thank you

[SoxFan]

47. A natural Hillary supporter

A 64 year old woman who voted for Goldwater.

I'm ashamed to see that this character assasin is touting her UNO degree.

[usrbs]

130. If you voted for Goldwater you're not a natural Hillary supporter. n/t

[usrbs]

142. If you voted for Goldwater you're not a natural Hillary supporter. n/t

[zulchzulu]

49. The most liberal senator is "not a progressive"? BWAHAHAHA!

What a ridiculous spam.

[AtomicKitten]

54. seriously ridiculous spam

:hi:

[ellisonz]

120. really really really ridiculous spam

:hi:

[Caro]

58. He's not the most liberal senator.

Far from it. Too bad you didn't read the first article linked to.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[AtomicKitten]

68. National Journal: Obama Most Liberal Senator 2007

January 31, 2008, 2:13 PM
National Journal: Obama Most Liberal Senator In 2007
Posted by Brian Montopoli| Comments7

National Journal is out with its ratings of the votes of the members of the Senate, and it has found that the most liberal senator in 2007 was Barack Obama.

"The insurgent presidential candidate shifted further to the left last year in the run-up to the primaries, after ranking as the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate," National Journal notes.

Hillary Clinton was found to be tied as the 16th most liberal senator, after having placed 32nd the previous year. National Journal uses 99 "key Senate votes" to determine its ratings. One of the key "conservative" votes Clinton cast was to designate the Iranian revolutionary guard a terrorist organization.

The differences between Obama and Clinton might be smaller than the first appear, however: National Journal notes that "Of the 267 measures on which both senators cast votes in 2007, the two differed on only 10."

The ranking will likely be used against Obama if he becomes the Democratic nominee. On January 16th, Karl Rove had this to say: "Nonpartisan ratings say that he has a more liberal and a more straight-party voting record than Senator Clinton does. Pretty hard to do." Republicans are likely to question Obama's "unity" rhetoric by casting him as a far-left ideologue.

Interestingly, Sen. John McCain "did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score," National Journal writes. "He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories."

[HeraldSquare212]

52. Damn, the other day people were quoting Brooks' comments against Obama

as though they were substantive comments.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. great post

[MethuenProgressive]

60. www.MakeThemAccountable.com is a great Democratic site.

www.MakeThemAccountable.com

[OzarkDem]

67. Very true, they are good

Its hard for Obama supporters to accept criticism, but an objective view of his background and record shows us things about him that we've known all long. He is a flawed candidate. None of this is new information, its been around a long time.

[jackson_dem]

73. Obama isn't a saint

his supporters are right about that. What they forget is Obama is running as a saint. "I was wrong." Words you will never hear from St. Obama...

[nvme]

123. your " I was Wrong" comment.

Nor will we hear Hillary say "I apologize for the IWR vote" Nor For Kyle Lieberman" she learned much from Bushco.

[DainBramaged]

74. Are you being paid by the post?

[rodeodance]

77. Thanks--this is valuable--pass it on

[rodeodance]

78. "He’s not a progressive. But he’s a master at pretending to be one""

[DrFunkenstein]

83. As an Obama Supporter, Please Keep Posting This

You are doing a wonderful job of reminding us of why we are intelligent enough to support Obama.

[ClericJohnPreston]

88. You laud

being anti-Gay and a being a tool for the Corporatists.

Yup, you got it right.

Now I know why you have the perfect type of intelligence for Obamaination.......

[Barrymores Ghost]

103. I am an avowed Edwards Democrat who is now a...

...proud delegate for Obama. I am a nearly-30-year voter, working on a graduate degree, have spent 15 years professionally raising public and private support for higher ed, and am a veteran of combat arms. Guess I'm just a duped, brainless shill for the corporate Right-Wing.

Thanks for your faith, and for your support.

[Tennessee Gal]

87. Carolyn, thank you for providing this.

I have been reading your site for years and have used it as a reference in pieces I used to write for Buzzflash. I have always found you to be very thorough and reputable.

I salute you for your dedication to our causes.

:patriot:

[Tennessee Gal]

89. k & r

[eridani]

92. If he were, would he be allowed to be one of the frontrunners?

Money is dictator in our system, which is why Obama and Clinton get to be frontrunners.

[candice]

95. Stretches truth about taking lobbyist money--"not one dime"

when he has 10 to Hillary's 20 "federally registered lobbyists" and takes money from surrogate lobbyist.

Obama: "It's a choice between a candidate who's taken more money from Washington lobbyists than either Republican in this race and a campaign that has not taken a dime of their money."

Sen. Obama's comments come on the same week Public Citizen released a report detailing ten bundlers for Sen. Obama who have registered as federal lobbyists.
Sen. Obama has also taken money from former lobbyists, partners of lobbyists, people who hire lobbyists, lobbyists' spouses, and state lobbyists.

http://www.caclean.org/problem/latimes_2007-04-22.php

Stretches the truth when telling the citizens of Iowa that he passed a bill to protect citizens from nuclear wastes, which he did not--he's in the pocket of Exelon.

See

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[stillrockin]

96. So we should all vote for Saint Hillary?

;)

[Orwellian_Ghost]

97. Why don't people

who contest what you put forth do so in detail.

It is transparently obvious that those who slavishly support Obama run away from any specifics and resort to the conventional techniques of avoidance. It's really amazing to witness.

K&R

[Zorra]

98. Don't blame me, I supported Dennis Kucinich.

I'm not fooled.

[Gloria]

102. Add to it Odinga....already ready go...

[in_cog_ni_to]

104. K & R!!!!

:kick:

[avrdream]

105. Wow!

Good research and I believe you are right about the Repubs preferring to face Obama.

Maybe this is why Barack is avoiding debates with Hillary: he is afraid she will start publicizing some of this information.

[Spiffarino]

106. There is nothing here I haven't heard before

I don't see where the Reichwing would gain any more traction from it. The only thing Obama doesn't do that Hillary does is bring Republicans to the polls. Hillary will have Republican coattails. Even if by some miracle she gets elected President, she's just as likely to be facing a divided Congress because Repubs will come to the polls on Election Day to vote against her and they will vote for their ilk in the close Congressional races.

My ideal election is one where lots of new, excited and zealous Democrats turn up, not just the old-school Dems. While we love the old-school we need fresh new faces, too. It's time for the old guard to stand aside for a while and let the youth prevail.

[amandabeech]

109. This old guard will fight you at the gates if you are the same barbarians

who have been posting the most vile things here on DU for the past several weeks.

I'm no Clinton fan, but I have to say that the rudeness, the coldness and the complete thoughtlessness of the posts by the Obama faction here has led me to believe that Obama's supporters would end any and all civil discourse in this country if they could.

Far too many Obama supporters act as though they're ready to turn their parents and grandparents over to the Obama police to be trucked out to Chicago and thrown into Lake Michigan during the next snowstorm.

I hope that you are able to discern the obvious meaning of my words. HINT--a syllable of one of the words in your post could be used to describe some of your Obama friends.

[Spiffarino]

141. I like Hillary. I really do.

I think she'd be a good president. I believe she is a very decent, caring human being. I hate the idea that she has to lose for Obama to win. I just think Obama is the smarter choice for the party.

My only concern about a Clinton candidacy is that she has far too many vile, irrational boobs lined up against her. I work with a lot of them, and there is no way to understate the hatred they hold for Hillary - or any Clinton. I think if Chelsea ever steps front and center into the public eye, you can rest assured that these people would spew hate on her, too. There is no sense, no reason, no discernible rationale for it. The haters have simply been fed so many lies and listened to so much innuendo that the truth cannot get through.

Any Clinton is the wrong choice for now. I believe the American public needs a rest from the Clintons for an election cycle, and from the Bushes until the universe collapses.

[bushisdirt]

107. Are you out of your mind? I have yet to talk to one person who

will support Hillary Clinton. And should she win the nomination for the Dems by the Super Delegates or the Michigan and Florida delegates, my entire street will not only vote against her, but will raise about a hundred grand to keep her out of office. The woman and her husband may or may not be guilty of all they have been charged with. But enough suspicion is on them to keep them out of The White House by simple prudence!

[Radical Activist]

110. Obama has a very progressive record in the Illinois Senate

and the US Senate. Your links don't tell us what votes he has taken that are so bad. And yes, to an anarchist/marxist mag like Z EVERYONE in the Democratic Party isn't progressive enough. I respect their opinion but their definition of progressive is unique and far outside anything that could get elected in the US.

[Hobarticus]

111. With links, even! Great post!

[cron]

115. so what?

Are these going to be effective Republican smears? Obama is not Nader or Kucinich, but I don't see how that will hurt him in the general election. He also may not be perfect, but I don't see why that means we shouldn't support him.

Is Hillary better on any of this stuff? What is your point?

[angrypoet]

116. Interesting

I attended an Obama event here in VA tonight and the realization hit me during the event as I listened to Gov. Tim Kaine speak and then Obama himself, the hyperbole surrounding this man is dramatically out of step with reality. I didn't meet any "Obamabots" or wackos or anything other than genuine, intelligent and caring people, THOUSANDS of them. I half meet and heard our governor speak several times and I have heard my Congressman Bobby Scott speak several times, I have heard Senator Jim Webb speak and I have heard our former governor Mark Warner speak and would NEVER classify them as anything other than intelligent, politically-savvy men that have done amazing work for VA. and these men support Obama.

You support HRC and good for you. Obama has some dents in his armor, so do we all. If you wish to be taken seriously, you have to be willing to take the good with the bad yourself. Do you feel comfortable lifting all the rocks and looking under them with respect to HRC? I am old enough to have been fully politically aware during both WJC terms and so are a lot of others and HRC has a lot of dents in her armor. Bringing things into the light does have value but you have to be willing to shine it in every corner and not stand in the shadows.

[ecdab]

117. Agreed......

The race for the Democratic nomination isn't between Obama and DK, it's between Obama and HRC. People should take an honest look at them both - this OP is hardly such an honest look. It's a shame the writer felt the need to post this here.

[Political Heretic]

118. The trouble with ideological purity....

...is that it frequently gets in the way of actual change.

I'm not supporting Obama for his sainthood. I'm supporting Obama, because I believe that he is the right person, in the right place at the right time to lead America. And I have spelled out the specific policy proposals and specific issue stances that make me prefer Obama over and over and over again on these forums.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4473387&mesg_id=4473387

In addition to believe Obama is the right person for America at this time, I also believe that Clinton is the wrong person for America at this time. I don't believe the continuation of the two-family rule that has defined national politics for so long is what America needs this year and looking into the future. It's time for the old guard of Washington politics - a guard that blurs party lines and spans both democratic and republican parties in its particular special interests - to stand aside. A throwback to the 1990's is not what I believe America needs going into the future.

The 90s may have been a more stable period economically, but it was far for equitable and brought us some of the worst public policy disasters of the last half century, including TANF and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act, the deregulation of Telecoms, Media Markets(leading to the Clear Channel nightmare) and banks (leading to mega-bank mergers and facilitating the lending nightmare we are currently in). We can and we must do better than that. You can cut and past accomplishments of Bill Clinton's administration (ripped directly from his White House's own public relations site and then circulated around the net) all you want. The argument isn't that the Clinton administration did not accomplish anything. It is that it did as much as it was capable of, and to go back to that same old pattern and leadership is not what America needs over a decade later. It's time to look to the future, not the past.

[donheld]

119. We're electing a president not GOD

Joe Biden isn't a saint
John Edwards isn't a saint
Hillary Clinton isn't a saint
Bill Richardson isn't a saint.
Dennis Kucinich isn't a saint.
Chris Dodd isn't a saint.


I on the other hand am a...oh nevermind. :D

[donheld]

121. We're electing a president not GOD

Joe Biden isn't a saint
John Edwards isn't a saint
Hillary Clinton isn't a saint
Bill Richardson isn't a saint.
Dennis Kucinich isn't a saint.
Chris Dodd isn't a saint.


I on the other hand am a...oh nevermind. :D

[donheld]

122. A post so nice,

I said it twice :D

[From The Left]

124. Copy and Paste from MyDD.

Too bad Obama is winning and the Borg Queen is losing!

[susankh4]

125. Thanks so much for all the links.

As the mom of a gay son, this one is incredibly disturbing to me:

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2007/11/obamas-anti-gay.html

[Finite]

126. Ok..

Because Clinton is squeeky clean on dodgy deals and coverups, right?

If this is the best Obama's opponents can come up with after months of digging dirt, then he's the candidate for me!

[flordehinojos]

127. barack obama is slimy... and one of the slimiest things he does (but not the only one by far)

is to accuse hillary of slamming him when he is the one slamming her.

[MadHound]

128. Change the names and the scandals around slightly, and you have Hillary Clinton

Look, neither was my primary or even secondary candidate. However when it boils down to a contest of the lesser of evils, Obama wins out every time. He didn't vote for the IWR, he didn't endorse Kyle/Lieberman, he didn't pass NCLB or the Patriot Act too.

Hillary has her own conservative supporters, among them Rush, Coulter and Pat Buchanan. She has her own shady past and shady connections, probably more of both than Obama. The fact that she was a corporate lawyer and board member for WalMart goes a long way to disqualifying her in my opinion.

Much of what you write about seems like a RW smear job, but even if it isn't, it in no way compares with Hillary's track record.

[Unca Jim]

129. Damn.

I am going to be so glad when either Obama or Clinton gets the nod so this kind of crap subsides.

Why would the Wingers attack Obama by claiming he's not liberal enough? That might be a negative here, but it would only help him with the right.

Besides, HRC is basically in the same boat policy and past-association wise.

I suppose 50 people have already pointed this out by now...

I am going to be so glad when either Obama or Clinton gets the nod so this kind of crap subsides.

[floridablue]

131. We want to wait until November

And say "oh golly, I didn't know any of that!" Well, I wonder who a few people in Iowa and New Hampshire and MSNBC will give us to vote for next time.

[From The Left]

132. The Borg Queen Has WalMart Lobbyists in New Campaign Ads

[Tarc]

133. Maybe people will finally start to wake up after this

But unfortunately it may be too late. It is hard to pry True Believers(tm) off the bandwagon once they've cemented themselves in.

Scarily similar to Huckabee's built-in evangelical support who will vote for him no matter what.

[golddigger]

136. K&R...Obama supporters need to be aware that the GOP have the knives out

on this Rezko thing. You can spin it all you want but, they are salivating if Obama gets the nom.

[happygoluckytoyou]

138. AND NOT ONLY THAT.... OBAMA RHYMES WITH OSAMA...

OF COURSE IT ALSO RHYMES WITH "YO MAMA" "HUMP A LLAMA"

---- gee this is fun...

[flyinzamboni]

139. Smear Campaign on half-truths?

Some of your points are valid. Most are not. You have no right to smear a brilliant economist with no facts. You reference articles which do not show what you say they show. You mainly quote one author who is described as a "radical historian" and "anti-centrist political commentator" who does not like a centrist candidate.

Let's go through your points. And hopefully you can respond to these issues or clean up your initial article.

"Economic Advisors":
You point to Austan Goolsbee as being "very conservative, from the University of Chicago-Milton Friedman school of economics". Austan Goolsbee is MIT trained and a solid economist. Just because someone takes a job at the University of Chicago does not make them a conservative. He is a prudent economist who delves into issues deeply rather than simply making knee jerk reactions. He is no Murphy, Davis, Topel or Kroszner. In fact he is a far cry from those economists who could readily be painted as conservative.

Austan Goolsbee is a brilliant economist and a hilariously funny individual. Having had the pleasure of interacting with Austan Goolsbee on multiple occasions, I can say that he is a great economist and exceptional individual. Don't smear him for working at one of the top business schools in the world.

Furthermore, if I am not mistaken, Goolsbee is actually attached to the business school rather than the "hardline economics department" (which is at the university rather than the business school) to which you try to attach him.


"where he promptly joined the Joe Lieberman Wing of the Democratic Party"
I followed your link and sorted on lifetime progressive votes. Please pardon that I am not sure how your link supports this. Obama ranks 24th on lifetime progressive votes. 24th out of 51. Hilary is tied for 17th.

"not a progressive", "master of pretending to be one", "Obama is a company man.”, "pro-business", "pro-war"
The author you cite is a veteran radical historian, journalist, and activist and anti-centrist political commentator. That does not mean that his views are incorrect; however, it makes me wonder why most articles you reference are written by this same author who obviously does not like Obama and often takes things out of context or with blatant disregard for facts. Obama will not be everything to everyone. And this author seems to view him as not a progressive. Other authors, cited in his first article, disagree.

This author is attacking Obama for saying "There is no white America. There is no black America. There is no Latino America. There is no Asian America. There is only the United States of America." The author's concern with this comment is "Therefore, there is no specific oppression of Black people in America (carried out by whites), and there is no Black polity worth paying attention to." It seems that this author believes that Obama is apparently "not black enough"
He views Obama as a company man because the "corporate billfolds have financed him" and "has stuck like Crazy Glue to positions on the Iraq war and health care that are practically indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton's - and in no way threaten the military-industrial complex or health care-insurance industries." In terms of the grass roots financing the Obama is attracting, I hardly see him as totally beholden to corporate interests. If this is really your concern and you accept all of this author's comments, you should be posting a scathing article on Hilary Clinton shortly.

"Social Security"
Obama differentiated himself from Clinton by saying major action is needed. He did not specify what action that was.
Goolsbee, Obama's economic advisor, has argued that the best way to address social security is NOT to privatize social security, NOT to change the structure of benefits through reindexing, and rather to change the retirement age.

"AIPAC Approved"
You are upset that Obama condemned rocket attacks?

"He misuses history, according to a prominent historian."
A prominent historian who himself in this article says "Perhaps this is a good place to note that I am on record as a supporter of Hillary Clinton."

"Health Care"
I agree. There are problems with the plan.

"He has shown repeatedly what good friends he is with anti-gay African American preachers"
This is, sadly, a correct point. The connection with this "ex-gay" minister is an unfortunate issue.

Rezko
The relationship with Rezko is potentially an issue.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Best,
flyinzamboni

[Stuckinthebush]

140. I'm so sick of this sh*t

For starters, I like both Clinton and Obama. I can support either candidate

If the Democrats continue to play this destructive game then we can kiss the presidency goodbye.

Cut this shit out. Please.

And that goes for over the top Obama supporters too. Both groups of whacked out supporters do the sane supporters of their candidates a disservice.

[Megahurtz]

143. Oh Please!

And just now who is a Saint??? :eyes: