Here's one of my issues with Obama: hypocrisy on lobbyists!

[PresidentObama]

First off, here's a quote of Obama talking about if he's the nominee and is debating Senator McCain one on one:

"When I'm debating John McCain, he won't be able to say, 'well, you supported the war, too,' because I didn't. He won't be able to say, 'you gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran,' because I haven't. He won't be able to say that, 'you take PAC money and federal lobbyist money,' because I don't."

Keep this quote in mind when you read this thread.

Barack Obama and his supporters attack Hillary Clinton for taking a lot of money from lobbyists. I don't like lobbyists either, so I'm not necessarily happy with the fact she takes lobbyist money. But you guys pretend Obama is clean as clean could be. Obama takes money from former lobbyists, lobbyist spouses, partners of lobbyists, people who hire lobbyists, and state lobbyists. Not only that but a list of ten bundlers for Obama was released of people who are registered as federal lobbyists. And before he ran for President, Senator Obama DID take money from federal lobbyists.

I'm not sure how anyone could claim to be holier than thou when their rise in politics was fueled by the same Washington players that they're now speaking out against and saying they'll stand up against. You can say you'll turn the page in your rhetoric, but when your actions say otherwise--how can you attack your opponent for something you're guilty of?

I respect and admire Senator Obama, and look forward to supporting him if he's the nominee.

But this issue bothers me. Because at one point he borrowed the John Edwards line that he doesn't take lobbyist or special interest PAC money. Really? Or is that a distortion?

More resources:

'PACS and lobbyists aided Obama's rise' http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise/

'Ten Bundlers for Obama Registered Lobbyists'
http://www.citizen.org/documents/LobbyistsFinal.pdf

[ProSense]

1. Bogus nonsense:

Fact Check On Public Citizen's Claim That Obama Has Bundler Lobbyists

February 08, 2008

Public Citizen recently claimed that Barack Obama has 10 bundlers who are federal lobbyists. But none of the individuals they cite are currently registered to lobby. As an Obama spokesperson has said, the ban on accepting money from federal lobbyists is not "a perfect solution to the problem , and it isn't even a perfect symbol, but it does reflect that Obama shares the urgent desire of the American people to change the way Washington operates."

Read Public Citizen's List Here

Check Lobbyist Registrations Here

Frank Clark, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2000

Scott Harris, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Allan J. Katz, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Robert S. Litt, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2002

Thomas J. Perrelli, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2005

Thomas A. Reed, TERMINATION ONLINE

Paul N. Roth, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Alan Solomont, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Tom E. Wheeler, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2003]

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS: Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

[PresidentObama]

2. As for the rest of my post? Care to "debunk" it?

[jackson_dem]

3. ProSense never replies to posts

She merely posts links, sometimes straight from the Obama machine.

[PresidentObama]

4. And what do you know, the link she posted was from Obama's website.

As for the rest of my post?

She ignored it.

[ProSense]

7. The link to the database is provided. Anyone can debunk your bogus claim. n/t

[PresidentObama]

12. As far as I'm concerned, your Obama website link didn't debunk anything.

And what about the rest of my post?

Still ignoring it?

[ProSense]

14. Your desperation and denial is pathetic! n/t

[ProSense]

15. Did you watch Edwards saying your claim is bogus:

Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS: Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

[PresidentObama]

16. What does Edwards have to do with my OP?

And how come you're ignoring about 75% of my post?

Let me know when you "debunk" anything, then I'll listen.

[ProSense]

19. "Because at one point he borrowed the John Edwards line that he doesn't take lobbyist..." n/t

[PresidentObama]

22. I referenced a John Edwards campaign line and you think a video of him proves anything?

By the way, how much money has John Kerry taken from lobbyists?

Since Team Obama wants to attack Hillary.

[Tellurian]

5. Please.. ProSense Fact Check from the Obama spin site..

as far as I can see. Your thread is 100% accurate.

Obama is no match for John McCain. The issue in the debate would be Ending the War... not who started it!

Everyday, someone has to coverup Obama's novice mistakes.. If the primaries weren't taking all the oxygen out of the airwaves this would be a good point for discussion.

[AX10]

8. Everyday there seems to be another excuse for Obama's..

actions. He gets all the excuses while Clinton gets all the blame.
It is absurd.

[ProSense]

13. Here, you're obviously in denial too:

Fact Check On Public Citizen's Claim That Obama Has Bundler Lobbyists

February 08, 2008

Public Citizen recently claimed that Barack Obama has 10 bundlers who are federal lobbyists. But none of the individuals they cite are currently registered to lobby. As an Obama spokesperson has said, the ban on accepting money from federal lobbyists is not "a perfect solution to the problem , and it isn't even a perfect symbol, but it does reflect that Obama shares the urgent desire of the American people to change the way Washington operates."

Read Public Citizen's List Here

Check Lobbyist Registrations Here

Frank Clark, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2000

Scott Harris, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Allan J. Katz, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Robert S. Litt, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2002

Thomas J. Perrelli, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2005

Thomas A. Reed, TERMINATION ONLINE

Paul N. Roth, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Alan Solomont, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Tom E. Wheeler, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2003]

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS: Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

[ProSense]

11. Still ignoring the facts I see:

Fact Check On Public Citizen's Claim That Obama Has Bundler Lobbyists

February 08, 2008

Public Citizen recently claimed that Barack Obama has 10 bundlers who are federal lobbyists. But none of the individuals they cite are currently registered to lobby. As an Obama spokesperson has said, the ban on accepting money from federal lobbyists is not "a perfect solution to the problem , and it isn't even a perfect symbol, but it does reflect that Obama shares the urgent desire of the American people to change the way Washington operates."

Read Public Citizen's List Here

Check Lobbyist Registrations Here

Frank Clark, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2000

Scott Harris, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Allan J. Katz, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Robert S. Litt, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2002

Thomas J. Perrelli, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2005

Thomas A. Reed, TERMINATION ONLINE

Paul N. Roth, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Alan Solomont, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Tom E. Wheeler, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2003]

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS: Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

[ProSense]

9. Your claim is bogus and shows your desperation

Clinton took in $823,087 from registered lobbyists and members of their firms in 2007 and the second-biggest recipient was McCain, who took in $416,321, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group which tracks political giving. Barack Obama, Clinton's rival for the Democratic nomination, doesn't take money from registered lobbyists, although he received $86,282 from employees of firms that lobby, according to the center.

link

[Tellurian]

17. You are about as BOGUS a Poster as any who posts on this forum..

You've been shown over and over again to post the most dishonest links here more than anyone in the history of DU..

I have to ask. Have you gotten a diagnosis for whatever this ailment is... to me it's the equivalent of Waterboarding this message board with dishonest watered down arguments...Termed..."WATERBOARDING"

STOP THE WATERBOARDING!

[ProSense]

23. "WATERBOARDING"? Moronic! n/t

[PresidentObama]

25. The only thing moronic is my thread being flooded by you posting the SAME link to every response.

It proves nothing, and ignores 75% of my post.

Where's my answer from above? How much money has John Kerry taken from lobbyists?

[ProSense]

26. You have no credibility left. n/t

[PresidentObama]

29. How much money has John Kerry taken from lobbyists?

[ProSense]

31. John Kerry isn't running. n/t

[PresidentObama]

35. Were you speaking out against him taking lobbyist money when he was?

Or do you only do that when a candidate you don't like is running?

Hypocrisy!!

[ProSense]

40. John Kerry isn't running. No hypocrisy, do your own research. n/t

[PresidentObama]

43. He's taken a lot of money from them. Were you speaking out against him in 04' for this? Hypocrisy?

[ProSense]

45. No he didn't, Hillary is the lobbyist baby, and Kerry is still not running. n/t

[PresidentObama]

48. Yes, he did. Here you go:

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/sector.asp?id=n00000245&cycle=2004

Did you speak out against Kerry in 2004 like you and others are doing against Hillary now?

Or are you a hypocrite?

[ProSense]

54. Wrong!

Top Industries

Same deal, people employed by firms that engage in lobbying.

[PresidentObama]

57. Lobbyist money taken from Kerry: $800,000+

[ProSense]

61. Wrong!

Contributions from individuals employed by firms engaged in lobbying, not lobbyist!

No matter how you try "they did it too" it's Hillary alone who is beholden to lobbyist.

[PresidentObama]

63. Are you saying John Kerry didn't take lobbyist money? If so, you're crazy and wrong.

He took a lot of it, too.

[ProSense]

65. That's what I'm saying, in addition to stating that you are wrong, your OP is BS and

you are in denial!

[PresidentObama]

67. I'm in denial? You just said Kerry's never taken lobbyist money. And not in 2004.

Now that's denial!!

[Tellurian]

28. Yes, you ole "waterboarder" you!

adept at watering down the Truth until it reflects your pov..

bleeh!

[jackson_dem]

30. Can ProSense make a real reply?

All she does is post links from the Obama machine itself or the machine's talking points. ProSense is a great researcher and that suggests she is very intelligent. Too bad she never shows it with a real post or two.

[PresidentObama]

33. Research is fairly easy to do.

If she is so good with research, how come she can't "debunk" the rest of my post?

She can only provide links from the Obama website.

Maybe she should research how much money John Kerry has taken from lobbyists.

[ProSense]

34. Have you seen the video of Edwards debunking the OP:

Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database that proves Obama doesn't accept money from registered federal lobbyist.

[PresidentObama]

39. How pathetic. You post the same link over and over and over, and it proves nothing.

You provided nothing to say I'm wrong that he takes money from lobbyist spouses, lobbyist partners, lobbyist friends, former lobbyists, and state lobbyists.

You ignore my point that he took their money before running for President.

And the only evidence you have is a link from the Obama website, and a video of JOHN EDWARDS?!?

Weak. Can you please address the rest of my post? If my post is wrong, how so?

And how much money does John Kerry take from lobbyists? Were you speaking out against him like you and others do Clinton?

[ProSense]

42. You're desperate, and I will continue posting it to show your desperation. n/t

[Whisp]

47. it proves you didn't click it or you can't read.

but you just keep taking up space.

familiar tactic.
distractic.
not working.

your girl is falling fast.

[PresidentObama]

50. The Obama website link? And what about the other 75% of my post that hasn't been addressed?

Familiar tactics is right.

Distort and run away from something you can't defend.

[Whisp]

68. and how about the 110% contentless posts of yours?

and I don't feel on the defensive at all.
you are doing a better job of proving yourself uninterested in dealing with facts than I ever could.

[Tellurian]

70. Well, the one thing we no for sure, her posts aren't "linked" to her brain!

[democrattotheend]

6. Nobody said Obama was perfect

But as politicians go, he is pretty clean, and the fact that he was willing to bunk the party in favor of passing tougher ethics reform seems like a good sign.

[Tellurian]

10. CLEAN? Have you lost it? He's a party to an indicted sleaze-bag who was his campaign chairman..

It isn't a stretch to say Obama might have broken Campaign Finance Laws....that could have been by taking laundered money..

WAKE UP!

[ORDem]

32. ROTFLMAO!!! Vague association to someone "indicted"

And who is Hillary married to? Please!!!

[Tellurian]

69. What?You don't know the difference?

:rofl: and you're supporting who? :rofl:

[ProSense]

37. Hillary's Curious Campaign Loan:

Hillary's Curious Campaign Loan

[PresidentObama]

41. You know, I really appreciate you flooding my thread with nonsense.

With posting links of John Edwards, links that have nothing to do with the OP, and you try to "debunk" one of my points with a link from Barack Obama's website. And you ignore almost ALL of my post, and instead attack me and others. And provide nothing to suggest I'm wrong.

[ProSense]

46. Obama Camp to Clinton: Show Us Your Taxes

Obama Camp to Clinton: Show Us Your Taxes

[PresidentObama]

49. Does this prove anything about my OP?

And you claim I'm the desperate one?

You still haven't debunked anything.

[ProSense]

52. Yes, it's bogus. Hillary is secretive and beholden to lobbyists! n/t

[PresidentObama]

55. John Kerry sure did take a lot of their money in 2004:

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/sector.asp?id=n00000245&cycle=2004

Why aren't you speaking out against John Kerry?

Cat got your tongue? Or hypocrisy leaving you going "but...but...but"

[ProSense]

62. Kerry isn't running and you're still wrong

Top Industries

Contributions from individuals employed by firms engaged in lobbying, not lobbyist!

No matter how you try "they did it too" it's Hillary alone who is beholden to lobbyist.

[PresidentObama]

18. So far here's the only defense I've goten:

The same link from the Obama website posted to almost every post from ProSense, as she ignores 75% of my post.

Anyone else?

[ProSense]

20. No, more pathetic distortion from you. Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS:

Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

[PresidentObama]

21. AGAIN, you're ignoring 75% of my post.

And a clip of John Edwards doesn't make my post wrong.

It means you're desperate in your attempts to "debunk" my post.

The truth can't be overshadowed with lies.

[ProSense]

24. The facts that your OP is BS and you're desperately denying it destroys all your credibility. n/t

[PresidentObama]

27. Proof he doesn't lobbyists spouses, lobbyist partners, state lobbyists money?

Proof he didn't take federal lobbyist money before running for President?

I proved my evidence in links.

So far you're focusing on portion of my post with a link from the Barack Obama website.

Why are you ignoring 75% of my post? No defense?

[jackson_dem]

36. It is documented the Obama campaign has no qualms with taking money from spouses of lobbyists

His fund raisers have been documented saying "You're a lobbyist? Well your wife can contribute!". Obama also used lobbyist money for his PAC to bribe establishment officials to endorse him in South Carolina, Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada. Almost half of his "HOPEfund" cash went to those four small states. It is obvious it was a front for Obama's presidential campaign and he used it, perhaps illegally, to get around laws regulating presidential campaigns. He did this by claiming he wasn't running for president at the time. :rofl: Legally it can't be proven that he was running for president but ethically he is clearly lying.

[stahbrett]

38. Proof that Obama ever claimed to not take money from those folks?

He (Obama) said he's not taking money from federal lobbyists for this election. I have not heard him say that he's not taking money from people who know, work with, or are married to lobbyists. I have also not heard him say he's never taken money from federal lobbyists in previous elections.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. that's because their is NO....none, nada, zip, zero defense for it

[HeraldSquare212]

51. His practices are better than hers or McCain's, period.

You can start faulting him for not being perfect once your candidate can match his practices.

[PresidentObama]

53. No I'm faulting him and his supporters for distorting reality.

When he's guilty of the same thing.

[HeraldSquare212]

56. No, he's not guilting of taking money from federal lobbyist, as Clinton and McCain do.

Either you think that's meaningful or you don't, but to insist he is doing the same thing as them is factually incorrect.

[PresidentObama]

58. He did before running for President. And still takes their spouses money.

And former lobbyists still give.

"He's clean because I say he's clean" doesn't fly as an arguement.

[HeraldSquare212]

60. Andstill, he doesns't take money from federal lobbyists and they do.

that's the only statement I made, and it's a factual one. Your's are opinions, which are fine - but they're not facts.

[PresidentObama]

64. He doesn't take money from federal lobbyists, they just bundle for him.

More of those facts for ya!

[ProSense]

66. No they don't, your claim is bogus.

Fact Check On Public Citizen's Claim That Obama Has Bundler Lobbyists

February 08, 2008

Public Citizen recently claimed that Barack Obama has 10 bundlers who are federal lobbyists. But none of the individuals they cite are currently registered to lobby. As an Obama spokesperson has said, the ban on accepting money from federal lobbyists is not "a perfect solution to the problem , and it isn't even a perfect symbol, but it does reflect that Obama shares the urgent desire of the American people to change the way Washington operates."

Read Public Citizen's List Here

Check Lobbyist Registrations Here

Frank Clark, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2000

Scott Harris, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Allan J. Katz, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Robert S. Litt, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2002

Thomas J. Perrelli, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2005

Thomas A. Reed, TERMINATION ONLINE

Paul N. Roth, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Alan Solomont, NOT REGISTERED IN 2007

Tom E. Wheeler, NOT REGISTERED SINCE 2003]

Don't forget to actually check the Lobbying Disclosure Act Database

Here is video of Edwards debunking your BS: Edwards, Clinton, and Obama debate about Lobbyist

[Orangepeel]

59. To support Obama: "you can't be a lobbyist anymore" vs "you can never have been a lobbyist"

The first restriction is okay with me.