Hillary not fighting for the "goof" vote. Big mistake.

[gulliver]

Hillary damned sure better start getting some illegitimate reasons for her candidacy. She is trying to win on legitimate reasons alone. That is Gore and Kerry all over. Huge political mistake.

Obama is proving to be the better politician. He takes a base of votes from the legitimate pile and then adds a whole bunch more from the illegitimate/nonsense/loon pile. You have to be willing to take votes both from the thinkers and the eyes-glazed, plastic pet rock buyers. If you leave that market segment out of your thinking, you are sure to lose.

Hillary's product line doesn't include any low end, low quality motivators for the value unconscious. She needs to get some of those, and she needs to do it real fast. Her people need to swallow hard and start some chanting and sloganeering before it is too late.

Maybe she focuses on her religious values. Maybe she recruits some women's movement people. I dunno. The one thing I thought she would do (focus intense, even overblown nostalgia on her husband's presidency) she has not done with anything like the intensity I thought was needed.

Frankly, if Hillary can't get in the game and take a segment of the non-thinkers, she is not the politician she needs to be. If she doesn't start to try for a healthy percentage of lightweight, gut-thinkers, maybe she deserves to lose. This is the real world. There is no room for sales people unwilling to sell plastic junk to plastic junk buyers. Give the consumers what they want.

[CreekDog]

1. That explains why I never see her in the lounge

:yoiks:

[peacetalksforall]

4. LOL. Now me, half the time I'm a logic person, the other half I'm a gut person -

I don't go to the lounge and I could use a place to hang out.

[Jim Sagle]

2. Many consumers have a taste for shit. They're the Obamabozos.

[peacetalksforall]

7. OK, leaving this thread. hughly uugely.

[monktonman]

3. She's already got all the plastic junk buyers

Have you been looking around lately?
She's doing a superb job of selling shit to shit eaters.
Besides, she's got MR.Walmart number one shit salesman ever on her side.
she cant go wrong.

(go ahead and tell me what a great president Bill was, I dare you.)

[gulliver]

8. What have they bought from her that is plastic junk?

Please. Give me some hope. Name one piece of value-less nonsense she is selling comparable to say "Yes we can." Truly, Hillary has no "Yes we can" to win over the enthusiasm-only people. She needs to get something. That's my point. She's out of her mind if she leaves people out of her thinking who are immune to legitimate, issues-oriented arguments.

[TwilightGardener]

9. She's selling 90's Bill nostalgia and a "fighting spirit"--there's not a dime's

worth of difference between most of her policies and positions and Obama's.

[gulliver]

14. Not even close to "Yes we can" or "Gobama"

Obama talks more "fighting spirit" than Clinton. And she sells the Bill Clinton nostalgia like it is some sort of subtext. Bill Clinton nostalgia is in fact the closest thing in the race to a legitimate reason to vote for someone. We know what a Clinton presidency is going to look like, because we have seen one.

But it needs to be oversold, not undersold. Bill Clinton was on the right track with the "rolling the dice" comment about Obama. But Hillary did not pick it up and run with it. She seemed to be afraid of offending. But that's foolish. The point is not to avoid offending. The point is to win over more eyes-glazed types than the opponent. If she offends some of Obama's eye-glazers (who aren't in her camp anyway) but adds a chunk of Hillary eye-glazers, it is a net win.

She needs to play the same game Obama plays. Pointing out the sales basis of Obama's approach is not winning. As the guy said in North Dallas Forty, "Seeing through the game and winning the game are two different things." She needs to win the game, not laugh at Obama's sales style.

[monktonman]

12. 35 years experience, ready on day one, her husband.......

Been there, done that..(yes, and look at where we are now) etc., etc.

[msongs]

5. maybe hillary needs to quote scripture to defend her glbt view, as does obama nt

[TwilightGardener]

6. Actually, the Hillary people are pushing the meme that she EXCELS

on the non-thinking vote, the ignorant/uneducated and apolitical class who only look for a brand-name positioned at eye level and go for it automatically. That's why they keep saying Obama wins caucuses (full of smart, tuned-in, motivated political consumers) and that SHE wins where a bunch of morans are probably thinking they're voting for Bill Clinton's third term--if they're thinking at all--in primaries.

[gulliver]

10. I don't think that is her mistake.

She really should be pushing the "Bill Clinton's third term" stuff really hard. But, not unlike Gore, she is trying to be her own person. Well, that's not the point. The point is to win. She can't do it by trying to be her own person more than her opponent. She has to be a politician.

She should be out there pointing out that she would take us back to a legitimate Clinton presidency. Then she should be overselling the nostalgia for it, not making it a back burner issue. It is a case where she is actually refusing to over-sell a legitimate and powerful sales point.

Just foolish, IMO. She doesn't seem to understand this game at all. She should be able to sweep in a whole bunch of the gut-thinker types and make them like her for it. But she won't go there.

[mutant80]

11. She needs a dorky slogan like Obama's "Gobama"

[TwilightGardener]

13. Actually, that's what's working for her already--the female vote for first

female Prez, and the Clinton 90's nostalgia--that's what I learned from my caucus yesterday. If those are important to a voter, then he or she is ALREADY in her camp. She needs to figure out a way to convince Dems that she can unite the country and win against McCain.