Did anyone See Menendez this morning? And, was anyone else disturbed by his statement?

[Hill_YesWeWill]

Did anyone hear Menendez making the argument this morning that it would be Democratic for the Super-Delegates to decide the nomination because they were elected themselves by the people, and was anyone else as disturbed by this as I was?

I'd like to ask Menendez, if letting the Super-delegates decide the nomination is just as democratic as having the pledged delegates decide the nomination, why even bother having the american people vote?!

The suggestion that independant Superdelegates deciding our nominee is just as democratic as pledged delegates who are assigned proportionally to popular vote deciding our nominee is ridiculous in my opinion.

In my opinion, nothing could be more undemocratic then this scenario and the statement really struck a chord with me, I really couldn't believe what I was hearing!

Now, many states and people have Not voted yet, but in case it's still very close in a month or two, I am of the opinion that All the superdelegate votes should be divied up according to the popular vote, somehow, and either by the local, state, or national popular vote

I often switch between the MSM channels constantly, so I can't remember which one he was on this morning, but I do remember McCaskill was also on at the same time, but I'd really like to find the transcript to this so I can provide a quote, anyone remember which show this was on?

[AX10]

1. How will Kennedy and Kerry vote.

seeing that their constituents voted for Hillary by a 16 point margin.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

3. well, I certainly hope in the voting booth they voted their choice as free americans

but if it does get to the point where the superdelegates Convention votes could decide the nominee, I think their Convention votes should somehow reflect popular vote, by some mechanism

[DJ13]

2. Why are you surprised? Hillary plans on leveraging Bills connections to steal this

6/12/2007
New Jersey Senator Robert Menendez Endorses Clinton for President

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2011


He's laying out the groundwork for another Clinton move.

[KennedyGuy]

4. Obama himself is backtracking on this

see www.talkleft.com

[Hill_YesWeWill]

7. Well, yes, yes, Menendez is a Clinton surrogate, this is partly why this disturbed me!

But, I wrote today also on another post about this, but I'll go ahead and repeat myself here. Clinton herself has not said this statement, but the fact that a surrogate is making this statement, it's disturbing to me

[Thrill]

5. Notice its the Clinton Supporters

that think its right for the Super Delegates to select the nominee. I wonder why

[Hill_YesWeWill]

19. Well, yes, uh, ok let's review the facts

Obama as of right now, is leading in pledged delegates, which are decided by popular vote, by different mechanisms, but they are all ultimately tied to the popular vote,

So, if, in a few months, Obama still leads in Pledged Delegates, he would have every right to make the argument that Super delegates should not trump the winner, by whatever margin, of the pledged delegate,

And, if Hillary leads the pledged delegates in a few months, I think she will also have every right to make this argument.

Would the Obama camp, if they were not leading in the pledged delegates right now make the same arguments we here coming from Clinton surrogates like Menendez? I don't know, maybe. No matter who makes that argument, though, it's undemocratic.

We still don't know what the final popular vote and pledged delegate count will be, but no matter what, no side of our party should be allowed to strong arm this nomination, I think we all agree on this!

[DefenseLawyer]

6. The Party created the whole concept

It seems to me if you don't like the use of "super delegates" in choosing our nominee you should have been complaining to Howard Dean before the election started. The fact of the matter is we have them, they are in play, and I can't blame either side for using them to their advantage, within the rules that are in place.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

9. Well, um, I'm not sure any of us here ever expected it to be this close

and certainly, noone expected the number of pledged delegates on both sides to be so close that Superdelegates could essentially decide the nomination.

Really to argue that this unlikely scenario should have been considered previously is not relevant,

To be clear, not all states have voted yet, not all Americans have had their chance yet to vote, but if it remains this close, it would Not be democratic to allow party insiders to decide the nomination independant of the popular vote.

I believe the Super-delegates have a right to vote their choice in the voting booth, along with every other American, and I certainly believe they have every right to endorse the candidate of their choiceand campaign for them.

But for the argument to be made that it would be completely democratic for them to decide the nomination simply because they were elected by the people, that's illogical.

[Trajan]

8. I support both candidates, but I do NOT support 'Superdelegates'

Is this a new 'innovation' ? ..... a recent development ? ....

I would prefer a runoff election instead ....

Let the established, regular delegates (not the super type) vote again, straight up and down, and let the winner take all .....

One could use the argument that we should TOSS the delegation method, and instead allow citizens vote in such runoffs .....

[DefenseLawyer]

10. I believe they have been around since 1984

They helped Mondale get the nod over Gary Hart, but I think because many people thought the 84 election was a lost cause anyway, it didn't cause much of a fuss.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

13. Lol, ok, really? 1984? that's ironic! right? nt

[NJObamaWoman]

11. Bob has endorsed HRC. Plus people in NJ want him to be her running mate

Bob is a fool.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

12. Yes, I'm definately aware that he said this as a surrogate

I don't know if I'd say He is a fool, that sounds like a baseless character attack to me!

But, this statement was foolish, I really wish I could find a link so I can get the exact quote!

[NJObamaWoman]

15. I can say he's a fool because I'm from NJ. I think our Gov. Corzine

is a fool too.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

16. Lol, well, I'm not saying he's Not a fool! You're certainly, probably,

more informed than me on those two! And, the statement really does say a lot, I really believe he crossed the line, I didn't know that others have been making this argument as well, but I find it very offensive as a democrat, it's very troubling.

I don't think as a party we will let this happen though

[JerseygirlCT]

14. I've been hearing that argument occasionally lately, too

It's baloney.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

17. It's a delegate vs trustee argument n/t

[democrat2thecore]

18. DNC member SuperDelegates aren't elected by the people!

It's a stupid argument to begin with, but if you're going to make it - at least he should have had the facts straight. DNC members who are SuperDelegates may - or may not be - elected officials.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

20. Well many are elected officials, I think that's what Menendez is referring to

but, yes, it's definately a stupid argument!

And, yeah, I think he was insinuating on the national media that they are All elected officials.

Actually, this is an important point you make, I'm loking for the transcript right now!

But, yes, it's a stupid argument.

For their vote to count just as much as pledged delegate's vote is unfair. Every pledged delegate represents sometimes thousands of votes, sometimes just hundreds, but there are mechanisms in place to divy up the pledged delegates related to the popular vote, and That is democratic.

[flpoljunkie]

21. Menendez, The Clintons' stalking horse. Remember what Frank Rich wrote today...

But I’m glad I watched every minute, right up until Mrs. Clinton was abruptly cut off in midsentence so Hallmark could resume its previously scheduled programming (a movie promising “A Season for Miracles,” aptly enough). However boring, this show was a dramatic encapsulation of how a once-invincible candidate ended up in a dead heat, crippled by poll-tested corporate packaging that markets her as a synthetic product leeched of most human qualities. What’s more, it offered a naked preview of how nastily the Clintons will fight, whatever the collateral damage to the Democratic Party, in the endgame to come.

For a campaign that began with tightly monitored Web “chats” and then planted questions at its earlier town-hall meetings, a Bush-style pseudo-event like the Hallmark special is nothing new, of course. What’s remarkable is that instead of learning from these mistakes, Mrs. Clinton’s handlers keep doubling down.

Less than two weeks ago she was airlifted into her own, less effective version of “Mission Accomplished.” Instead of declaring faux victory in Iraq, she starred in a made-for-television rally declaring faux victory in a Florida primary that was held in defiance of party rules, involved no campaigning and awarded no delegates. As Andrea Mitchell of NBC News said, it was “the Potemkin village of victory celebrations.”

The Hallmark show, enacted on an anachronistic studio set that looked like a deliberate throwback to the good old days of 1992, was equally desperate. If the point was to generate donations or excitement, the effect was the reverse. A campaign operative, speaking on MSNBC, claimed that 250,000 viewers had seen an online incarnation of the event in addition to “who knows how many” Hallmark channel viewers. Who knows, indeed? What we do know is that by then the “Yes We Can” Obama video fronted by the hip-hop vocalist will.i.am of the Black Eyed Peas had been averaging roughly a million YouTube views a day. (Cost to the Obama campaign: zero.)

[Hill_YesWeWill]

23. well, I'm honestly not sure how that's relevant to this subject, but yeah that set was

really outdated, right?!

That was funny, oh well, I'm sure if Obama wanted to he would do the same, he certainly could afford it,

And, we really can't say whether or not that Hallmark townhall did or did not affect votes or will affect votes, there's probably no way we could ever know that,

But, the will.i.am video, that is definately getting a lot of play time, I really like it myself!

[anamandujano]

26. Wow, I didn't know Rich was such a nasty guy.

The campaign’s other most potent form of currency remains its thick deck of race cards. This was all too apparent in the Hallmark show. In its carefully calibrated cross section of geographically and demographically diverse cast members — young, old, one gay man, one vet, two union members — African-Americans were reduced to also-rans. One black woman, the former TV correspondent Carole Simpson, was given the servile role of the meeting’s nominal moderator, Ed McMahon to Mrs. Clinton’s top banana. Scattered black faces could be seen in the audience. But in the entire televised hour, there was not a single African-American questioner, whether to toss a softball or ask about the Clintons’ own recent misadventures in racial politics.

Just like the Obama campaign, Rich complains about racism, referring to imaginary meanings of words and images, while flogging the race issue.

Note the use of the word "servile" to describe Carole Simpson.

Describing the town hall as a naked preview of how nastily the Clintons will fight, whatever the collateral damage to the Democratic Party, in the endgame to come.

In other words, Hillary should not talk, should not defend against slurs, should not even campaign or risk someone like Rich twisting any and every event as racist.

:puke:

[Vinca]

22. If Obama was the "chosen one," this wouldn't be an issue.

They would decline to give him the "old party" vote. Hillary was their planned candidate and come hell or high water they're going to try to install her in the position.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

24. I don't know about this, I honestly believe there is no way that any of the Democratic

party leaders would make the decision to alienate any segment of voters by allowing the super-delegates to trump the pledged-delegates.

Surely, there would be an outcry against that, I just hope that both of the candidates are aware of that!

[Hill_YesWeWill]

25. Bottom line: What I don't want to see on the MSM is a story about the democrats being unfair! nt