Don't call millions of Dems and Independents a "Cult" and then expect to get their vote in November.

[FrenchieCat]

Just sayin'.

There are some here who believe that this is the way to go.....to belittle Sen. Barack Obama and his supporters, which includes millions who will make a difference in November.

[Bluestar]

1. Is this a threat?

Why are Obama supporters keeping this "cult" thing alive?

[Renew Deal]

3. Blame the victim

Interesting.

[Bluestar]

10. I count the last 3 threads on this subject are from Obama supporters

I just don't get it. If you don't respond (and so vehemently) it will die for lack of energy.

[Renew Deal]

14. It was dieing down

And then the Krugman article hit tonight.

[Skidmore]

56. Frenchiecat is absolutely right on about this.

People engaging in this sort of behavior are doing their candidate no favors.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

2. You mean

the same way Hillary's supporters have been called proponents of war and racists?

[Renew Deal]

4. Hillary's supporters are proponents of war.

Her war support is no secret. And your avatar implies that you agree with her. I don't think Hillary or her supporters are racists.

[Hobarticus]

8. As are Obama's supporters since he's been voting to fund it...

[emilyg]

31. They won't listen to you.

[Hobarticus]

41. I knows it...

Just fun to throw that in, once in awhile

[Cha]

7. hilary is a warmonger..are you?

hilary and bil started the racist shit on Obama..do you condone that?

[Blue_State_Elitist]

24. I've been protesting the war since the very beginning.

I said there were no WMD's long before it was popular. I wouldn't have voted for the IWR, but I don't know for sure how Obama would've voted since he wasn't in the US Senate (note: I recognize he was in the minor leagues in Illinois and spoke against the war) at the time. Obama has however continually funded the war.

The Clintons did not start racist shit on Obama. Pointing out that LBJ was crucial to civil rights isn't racist at all.

[Cha]

28. Yeah, don't try to marginalize Obama

cause he was working in the trenches on the south side of Chicago changing the way they do politics.

And coming out in 2002 taking a stand against george bush's war on Iraq while hilary supported it.

<snips>

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

Obama was smart and courageous..hilary just followed the path of least resistance..so you keep telling yourself you were against the war while you support the warmonger.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

30. The anti-war marches I have attended and the shit I took in 2002-2004

for being against the war must have been purely my imagination.

[Cha]

38. And you now support the war

machine candidate..how times have changed.

[Hobarticus]

42. Yet you support the war machine-funding candidate...

[Cha]

43. They all do because who wants to

leave our Soldiers without the necessary equipment while they're over there in Iraq fighting the war they were sent into by bush and all the congress people who have blood on their hands. John Kerry and John Edwards have apologized and are changed because of it..but not hilary, she voted for the kyl-lieman bill to show how tough she is.

[Hobarticus]

46. If Obama's so peace-lovin', why not vote NO on Iran, rather than PRESENT?

Feel like you've been had, yet?

[Egnever]

5. Meh dont let the cult thing get to you

its not worth the effort.

[FrenchieCat]

9. I'm not, but I don't like to see folks cutting off their noses

to spite their faces.

The heat of this primary is getting beyond their vision for the day after. That's what happens when you go beyond the point of decency.

[killbotfactory]

6. Don't you see though? It's a bad thing for a candidate to attract new voters.

It's a bad thing to have mass appeal. It's a bad thing to be inspired by charismatic progressive candidate. It's a bad thing for people to get excited about an election.

We might actually win an election decisively that way, then the DLCers would have no excuse for selling us out to the highest corporate bidder, and that would just be downright awful.

We Obama supporters should all be ashamed of ourselves.

[WillyT]

13. Most Excellent Response...

Kudos!

:yourock:

[FrenchieCat]

17. Considering that we all want the same result,

for these folks to willfully ridicule and disrespect other Dem voters like this is really over the top.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Nobody is even expecting you to vote.

Nobody cares.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Well, there are many more that don't.

Sure....folks will ridicule the ridiculous, but what will be remembered is the disrespect leveled upon them; you included.

[angie_love]

15. Its one thing for Krugman to go after the candidate but to belittle the voters who support him?

That is just sleazy and wrong and it discourages people from voting in the future. No voter wants to feel "ashamed" of supporting their candidate of choice. He seems like a total bully, he should be ashamed.

[rodeodance]

21. You forget the NYtimes, the Sac. Bee, the Guardian UK, .ect ect

[FrenchieCat]

25. Those papers weren't the ones doing it.....it was certain writers.....

whom I'm sure received a call from the guy who is so desperate to get back into the White House, until if he/she can't get back in, they'll sabotage whomever gets it and try again in another four years.

The level of disrespect is palpable.....and considering that using the word Pimp by one reporter ferments the type of outrage from the Clinton camp, it boggles the mind; the double standard employed here.

[rodeodance]

16. so, it is OK with you if the Repugs he is attracting are called cultists?

Don't call millions of Dems and Independents a "Cult" and then expect to get their vote in November.

[Phil McCavity]

18. What a distortion of Krugman's words

Krugman did not blame millions, and these millions are certainly not responsible for the cultist veneration towards Obama.

[bluestateguy]

19. Who is the person who actually called Obama's team a cult?

All of a sudden these threads starting coming up, and I can't discern where they originate from.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Those who want to see Hillary win at any cost, and forgetting about

the real prize.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I agree--ridiculing people is not the way to make people want to participate in the process.

[FrenchieCat]

26. There will be a prize to pay....but since the Clinton's don't really give a

shit about Black voters, I supposed they don't give a shit about anyone else either.

Mark my word; I won't be forgetting this ever....and neither will those who I know; and I know an awful lot of folks.

[rodeodance]

29. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that about

the Clintons not caring about black voters=--and then making a quantum leap about speculating they do no care for others either. Its crude and you know better!


.\\but since the Clinton's don't really give a

shit about Black voters, I supposed they don't give a shit about anyone else either.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Plueaze......

I am getting fucking tired of getting disparaged personally for every fucking comment I make about the Fucking Clinton Campaign...while anything and everything goes in reference to what is said about about Obama supporters.

Take a look in the fucking mirror, will ya?

[cornermouse]

50. Class act start to finish, Frenchie.

:sarcasm:

[Zodiak]

27. It is disrespectful in many ways

...most importantly, it insults the intelligence of Obama's supporters. People arrive at their voting decisions for different reasons. For me, it has everything to do with the DLC and their anti-progressive , anti-Democratic agenda....and the maintenance of their stranglehold on the party leadership. If they cannot win the nomination, they will salt the earth for anyone else within the party to get it. They do the same thing legislatively (think gang of 14).

This is a well-researched position. I take great umbrage at being referred to as a cultist because I have switched from Edwards to Obama. I know Obama is a centrist with many similar votes to Hillary, but he is not a centrist whose job is to keep progressives from using their voice in the party while welcoming corporate lobbyists with open arms.

[jackson_dem]

32. Is anyone taking French's hypocrisy seriously? Remember what she used to say about Edwardians?

[Elspeth]

35. No, what DID she say about us Edwardians?

(I was originally a Kucinich supporter but moved to Edwards because I liked his message and thought he had a shot.)

[Elspeth]

33. Where will Obama's supporters go if Clinton should win?

Am very curious about this.

Hillary Clinton's supporters will probably vote Dem anyway. Most are older women who are worried about the hostility of Republicans to women's issues.

But, Obama's supporters seem loyal to Obama and not to the party in general. I worry that they will go elsewhere.

I know that I have considered going Green if Cynthia McKinney were to run, just because I respect the hell out of her and because she truly is anti-war. But, in the final analysis, I'll probably vote for whoever the Dem candidate is. Yet it bothers me to have to vote for a guy whose supporters are so hostile and, often, blatantly misogynistic in their criticism of Hillary Clinton.

[thoughtcrime1984]

34. Were supporters of JFK, RFK, or MLK cultists?

Three very captivating individuals who had intense supporters and admirers.

[girl gone mad]

36. Threatening to vote for McCain or not vote at all..

if your guy doesn't win.

Shows where your priorities are at. Not with the country.

[TexasObserver]

37. the Catholic Church called Protestantism a Cult

How did that work out for them?

The entrenched who are losing ground to upstarts always call them cults.

The very use of the word by the Clintonistas reveals both how desperate they are, and how very, very terrified they are of Hillary's impending collapse. Time for the Coven to give way to the Cult.

[ClericJohnPreston]

39. So, you have finally lost your mind to certifiable conclusion.

First, it was your never going to forget how cruel DUers were to you post. Forget the history of bashing which preceded that post by you. You had your head handed to you, and rightly so.

But my favorite part of Frenchie is , you never learn.

Now, JUST AS PAUL KRUGMAN ARGUED ( note: see all the Obamites who reflexively smeared Krugman )you, an OBAMITE of the highest order, are threatening not to vote for the Democratic candidate in November if it isn't Obama???!!!

Just as I always thought. Scartch the surface of an Obamite, and the Republican comes through.

[Bongo Prophet]

54. And you have become her mirror image in the short month you've been here. Impressive.

I have noticed your "personal pontification" is always pretty harsh and meant to divide.
One might think you aren't here to reduce poverty or build a progressive movement that turns our country into a freer and more humane place, but to act as a corrosive agent, dissolving group cohesion by pitting one side against another.

You say that "PAULL KRUGMAN ARGUED" that Frenchie and all "OBAMITES" are threatening to not vote for the Dem candidate.
FACT IS, that is a LIE.
NOWHERE does it say anything of the sort.
You are counting on people not to have read it, perhaps?
I encourage anyone reading this to read the OpEd yourself, and do not believe this bull.

It is true that FrenchieCat has gotten increasingly aggressive, and was rude to several Edwards supporters over a period of time.
Sometimes people descend into advocacy, and the "battle aura" changes them, and affects objectivity.
Everything is an attack, and so they attack everything. symmetrical patterns and self- or group- reinforced behavior.

If you REALLY care about the principles and goals of the Edwards campaign, it seems you would refrain from broadbrush accusation of ALL obama supporters as closet republicans.

Oh, and the name calling?
Childish bullshit.
What are you, 12?

Hillary supporters, Edwards supporters, Obama supporters- MOST of us are guilty of some excesses, and if it is ONLY those who are innocent can make a call for civility, there will be very few of us left. you know that old "who is without sin" thing? What Frenchie or anyone else who wants to ease up on the internecine poo fight needs to do is make a SERIOUS effort to CHANGE their behavior. If they give a sincere apology to those they have harmed, all the better.

If you want to get some practice in convincing voters in the general, learn to listen and respond with respect. Yuo won't win votes for dems by insulting them.
If you want to fight, then go fight freepers on the bipartisan boards - tear them a new one, in public. expose their stupidity in front of everyone.
If you want to play one side against the other, "Hey, let's you and him fight" - then go destroy Republican solidarity, not ours.

Call me names if you want. It would only reinforce my point.

[rjx]

40. I am a big Obama follower, BUT

if Billary gets the nominee, I will vote for her. Why? CAUSE I AM A DEMOCRAT!! I can't stand her. But its not about who I think is cool or not or who's personality I like better. Those are dangerous things to vote for.

[SKKY]

51. EXACTLY!!! EYES ON THE PRIZE PEOPLE!!!

It could be mickey-fucking-mouse for all I care. Get a Dem in, and get the Republicans out. Period. Everything else is just details.

[Bongo Prophet]

45. Krugman's article applies to us all, not just Obama suporters.

Here is the take home thought of the OpEd:

But most of all, progressives should realize that Nixonland is not the country we want to be. Racism, misogyny and character assassination are all ways of distracting voters from the issues, and people who care about the issues have a shared interest in making the politics of hatred unacceptable.

One of the most hopeful moments of this presidential campaign came last month, when a number of Jewish leaders signed a letter condemning the smear campaign claiming that Mr. Obama was a secret Muslim. It’s a good guess that some of those leaders would prefer that Mr. Obama not become president; nonetheless, they understood that there are principles that matter more than short-term political advantage.

I’d like to see more moments like that, perhaps starting with strong assurances from both Democratic candidates that they respect their opponents and would support them in the general election.

The point is not the line about Obama supporters (not Obama himself) being defensive. (and cult of personality was applied to JFK, RFK, MLK jr, Beatles, And others. not bad company, but that's also not the point) The point is that supporters and detractors can be dragged into "Nixonland" mode too easily. Like this thread, and many others.
Like the pictures of a crying baby.

So go ahead.
Taunt each other,escalate.
Will we make it
1932 or 1968?

Both camps, pause and consider
One side attacks with glee, then the other
It's all pretty embarrassing,
such primate behavior!
I would give up all my dreams,
for a method of escape
I'd give up even more
for a better class of ape. ;)

What will
Shock the monkey to life?

[Hobarticus]

47. Teach them...teach them to see...

Excellent post.

[Hippo_Tron]

48. Personally I'm enjoying the cult attack as much as the Kindergarten essay thing

Anybody who really thinks that Obama is a cult leader needs to check out Ron Paul and his supporters.

[Thrill]

49. If Hillary is the nominee. There will be a legit other option

Bloomberg. We don't have to go to McCain

[Bluebear]

53. So, it's Obama or you won't vote Democratic? Interesting.

[Bongo Prophet]

57. Brent, an honest question. If you like Wes Clark, you might like him being in the Clinton admin...

There is a very good likelihood of Gen Clark being in a high Clinton admin.
we need good leadership to get us out of Iraq, avoid war with Iran, make some sane plan for Afghanistan, and more - and Wes Clark is highly qualified to aid in that. does this not carry weight with you?

Is there something that so bugs you about Hillary that overshadows that?
do you prefer an anti-choice war monger, or billionaire ego candidate with god knows what kind of federal philosophy?
I admit that I don't get the logic.

I would not presume to tell you how to vote - I am sincerely curious as to your thought process here.
If you could briefly enlighten me, I would be grateful.
(you can pm me if you don't want to distract this sophisticated discussion thread. ;)

[malletgirl02]

52. I agree

The cult accusations are not helping the Clinton campaign. I think most Obama voters will vote for Clinton if she is the nominee, but due to the cult crap they most likely won't be motivated to actively campaign for her. Also the Clinton supporters hypocrisy is also pissing me off.

[LeftCoast]

55. Considering how thin your skin is where Obama is concerned

it's quite amazing at how brutal you are toward other Democrats in the race. Shows a remarkable lack of empathy in my opinion.

[quickesst]

58. That's petty...

compared to the hatred shown toward Clinton. The biggest difference is, Clinton supporters don't believe the country would be better off with McCain as president. ALa Bartcop: If Clinton gets the nomination, she'll make a good president, unless the Democrats can stop her. Thanks.
quickesst

[Adelante]

59. Every day there are Clinton supporters here saying they will not vote for Obama in the GE

Every day.

[golddigger]

60. Why is someone here on DU running for office?

:shrug: