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I vote tomorrow, and I still don't know who to vote for!!

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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:19 AM
Original message
I vote tomorrow, and I still don't know who to vote for!!
I've always wanted my vote to matter in a primary, and finally it will -- but I don't know who to vote for. My inner dialogue goes around and around, something like this:

Clinton – Has more experience and very slight edge on economic and healthcare proposals, but people love to hate her. With a Clinton bumpersticker, people would be mean in traffic and my neighbors and students would have fits.

Obama – More ability to excite voters and be acceptable to others, at least at the beginning. But could be swiftboated badly by the RNC, and who knows with what?

Clinton – Already attacked in national campaigns with all the dirt millions of dollars could buy. But there’s the “dynasty” element, and "Clinton fatigue."

Obama – No dynasty element or fatigue, but a level of experience that would involve too much reliance on cabinet members and advisors.

Clinton – Has grappled with all the issues for years -- I do give weight to daily discussions of issues with President Clinton -- but voted for IWR and K/L.

Obama – Didn’t support war or K/L, but as a result could be hit in GE for being “weak on security,” at the same time reckless for statements about Pakistan, meeting leaders w/o preparatory visits by others, etc.

Clinton – Strength on security in GE, which may be why she voted as she did. But old memes say she’s “anti-military,” and a woman can’t seem as macho, and many men just won’t vote for her.

Obama – Gets more votes of men, and brings in new voters – minorities and young people -- but in southern states, his campaign has had to lean heavily on religious and even conservative rhetoric.

Clinton – A more liberal record and stance, but perceived as too right on the left, too left on the right.

Obama – Perceived as more left on the left, which would certainly make it easier on DU! But moderation, ‘unity’ etc. isn’t what I want with Republicans – and they could walk all over him if he goes in with that stance.

Clinton – Knows how to fight the rightwing, knows it's necessary, and would do so, especially in the WH in my opinion. But with every move she made, I’d have to listen to neighbors berating the Clintons, DUers and other Dem blogs would be daily complain-fests, etc.

Obama – There’s at least a good chance people might be more positive about him, and are more sensitive about racist remarks/views than sexist ones. Maybe it’d be easier for the glass ceiling of race to be broken first.

Clinton – But the sexism I’ve seen makes me think a woman president is really needed to deal with it, raise consciousnesses, and finally start to get over it! But maybe she couldn’t beat McCain.

Obama – Maybe he couldn’t beat McCain.

Clinton – Maybe she shouldn’t beat McCain, unless she had General Clark as her running mate!

Obama – Not likely to have General Clark as his running mate since he endorsed Clinton.

Clinton – Might NOT pick General Clark as her running mate, but there’s always a chance….

But, even with a Clinton/Clark bumpersticker, people would be mean to me in traffic and my neighbors and students would have fits... (Repeat from beginning)
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Who do you think will have the momentum of the voters in November for downticket races?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. By the time November comes around, I'm not sure...
From the looks of Democratic turnout (for both of our candidates!) I hope anti-GOP sentiment will be the big motivator.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. If people would be mean in traffic with a Clinton sticker, by all means vote for Obama.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I was being a little facetious there -- I mean that it might be a more uphill struggle
to persuade (some) other people...
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. have you noticed what a deeply dysfunctional campaign the Clintons have run?
you want to have the country divided AGAIN in half so nothing ever gets done?

And as a fellow Clark supporter, there is ZERO chance he'll be VP.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Really? I actually think the General would be on her short list.
He got on board early.

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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. I see that as part of the media's constant search for a story.
I really don't think there was an effort to be divisive, and I don't think the campaign is dysfunctional.

If anything, I've felt the Obama "generational" rhetoric as divisive.
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Agreed, he may be vying for it, but ain't gonna happen. I think it's Bayh. (If she wins)
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Bayh humbug!!
I wish I could know the VP picks now, because Clinton/Clark and Clinton/Bayh are VERY different tickets in my view!!
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
43. me too! Don't want him, but Indiana insiders say it's so, fwiw.
But, of course, no one *really* knows.:shrug: Perhaps Clark's aim is really for a cabinet position, which would be great too. (I like National Security Adviser myself)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. you really think we're stupid, don't you?
this is a transparent manifesto of Obama love and Clinton hate.

inner dialog :eyes:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Wow.
:wow:

I'll bet Obama supporters could see it the other way around!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. alright, I was an ass
so much for reading comprehension. I got caught up in an early morning bum rush through this place and I popped off without looking closely at the post. I just woke up, I work nights, and I re read the post after seeing the defenses. They are right, I made a foolish mistake. I actually like your reasoning, and I hope you believe I'm sincere in that. I truly made an idiot post without reading or thinking first. I hope you forgive me. And, best regards to whatever you choose.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. No problem, bigtree!
It's probably a good thing if Obama supporters think I seem positive for Clinton, and Clinton supporters thing I seem positive for Obama. :)

:hug:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. That's sick, just sick
This is SPARKLY!!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. .
:hug:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. You definitely made a mistake
You might be able to say that about some other posters, but I'll guarantee you that your post does not apply to Sparkly. That much I know.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. .
:hug:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Actually, it appears you're blinded to reason and logic
I know ....... she and i discuss this pretty much constantly, particularly that we both have to vote tomorrow. We really are undecided.

So tell ya what ....... pack your bullshit back where it came from.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. .
:hug:

Oh -- it's YOU!! I take that back.

I meant:
:spank:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent
The only point that I do not think you provided sufficient couterpoint argument to is this one:

"Obama – Gets more votes of men, and brings in new voters – minorities and young people -- but in southern states, his campaign has had to lean heavily on religious and even conservative rhetoric."

I think you gave insufficient attention to the fact that Clinton will mobilize a higher percentage of women to vote, and she will bring in new Democratic votes - from Republican women. And that her perceived more middle of the road and deeper security creds may match up better against McCain than Obama's, giving those Republican women the last excuse they need to vote for the Democratic woman against him.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Clinton actually "needs" your vote at the moment and domestically
Clinton will do more for the 'working folks' And she is the only one with "universal healthcare".That is a deal breaker for me.I also think the issue of sexism has got to be dealt with and we need to do it NOW. Another point in her favor is that she is a fighter and will, despite her alliances , stand up to the corporations. Barack has offered them a "seat at the table,and wants to negotiate.He also wants to reach across the aisle.He has close ties to Lieberman. This hasn't worked for Reid and Pelosi and it won't work for barak.We need someone who will call the otherside on their BS and take action.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Saracat, you never cease to amaze me with your wisdom.
:loveya:
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. I sympathize. On the night before Super Tuesday, I was where you are now
All I can say is, go with your gut. Turn off the inner dialogue and go with your gut level reaction. It won't steer you wrong.

Whomever you vote for, it's a Democrat, and that's never bad. :D
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. I think Sen. Obama will kill the GOP with kindess--literally
Look at how he has framed the race for the Democratic nomination and has controlled the dialog by staying on message. As I believe we will see when he goes up against Sen. McCain, the GOP will have great difficulty framing the debate and getting their mud to stick.

When the GOP has been de-fanged then the President will be able to set the agenda for the nation and there will be enough of us supporting him to make sure that the media will not be able to smear him so easily.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. LMAO!
I think Sen. Obama will kill the GOP with kindness--literally. :rofl:

Oh crap, you were serious? :wow:
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's time to take charge of your life and make a flying leap of guts and stop being a
ping pong ball.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. Please consider reading this in its entirety
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william/why-i-recorded-yes-w_b_84655.html

The whole thing is really powerful but this portion I found to be especially succinct and makes a point that I see no one saying elsewhere.

". . ."change for the better"
Inspiration breeds change...

"Positive change"...

no one on this planet is truly experienced to handle the obstacles we face today...
Terror, fear, lies, agendas, politics, money, all the above...
It's all scary...

Martin Luther King didn't have experience to lead...
Kennedy didn't have experience to lead...
Susan B. Anthony...
Nelson Mandela...
Rosa Parks...
Gandhi...
Anne Frank...
and everyone else who has had a hand in molding the freedoms we have and take for granted today...

no one truly has experience to deal with the world today...

they just need "desire, strength, courage ability, and passion" to change...
and to stand for something even when people say it's not possible...

America would not be here "today" if we didn't stand and fight for
change "yesterday"...
Everything we have as a "people" is because of the "people" who fought for
change...
and whoever is the President has to realize we have a lot of changing to do

I'm not trying to convince people to see things how i do...
I produced this song to share my new found inspiration and how I've been moved...
I hope this song will make you feel...
love...
and think...
and be inspired just like the speech inspired me...

that's all..."

http://www.dipdive.com /

This lady has an interesting perspective and story as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-nix/crunchy-cons-obama-and-e_b_85910.html

Good luck with your decision.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. Put your heart and head on automatic
Decide in the booth. You will do the right thing.
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. Which candidate best represents YOU? Whichever you decide, it will be right for you.
this should be an interesting thread. :)
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. I went through this Super Tuesday for the CO Caucuses
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 11:54 AM by hlthe2b
Walked in still not knowing for sure which way I'd go, sat with my precinct group and even took a sign for both candidates (historic momento, after all).... Finally some annoyed ward captains for both Obama and Hillary let me know the time was coming to get off the fence so that I could hold ONE sign or the other...LOL The irony is there were many there just like me--sort of leaning one way or the other, but just not sure.

Well, I respect both candidates and would support either one, but I finally decided that we need to go in as opposite the direction of our current incompetents in office as possible. Though I believe both will try to do so, I think it may be more doable for Barack.

Hillary--though I have since heard never liked NAFTA-- still carries the baggage of Bill's worst policies, fair or no. I want as clean a slate as possible. And, I want to harness the excitement and positivity of the youth, I admit. At the same time, I really want to see a woman in office.

Ultimately, I'd be most pleased, I think, with a Hillary/Obama ticket, but I slid off the fence last week to support Obama, at this stage.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hillary Clinton, the underdog.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. Here's my opinion on 1 issue.
"Clinton – Has more experience and very slight edge on economic and healthcare proposals"

I think she has a huge edge on healthcare. Clinton wants EVERYONE insured by mandate. Obama says not everyone has to be insured. Getting everyone insured is the best step towards universal single payer healthcare. We can't let those who don't want to have healthcare opt out if we want to get to universal. JMHO
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. Given the attacks that have been made in the last 7 years
on birth control and abortion rights Hillary is my choice. Her Health Care Program is superior, IMO.

I remember the young woman who was jailed after being raped and who couldn't get her second dose of the emergency birth control pill....that should never happen and Hillary championed the bill to make that pill over the counter.

I guess it's up to you what issues are the most important and who represents those best.

This time I vote for MY best interests and those of my sisters and nieces.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
30. I think there are a lot of people who are torn about their decision, just like you, Sparkly
This is one of the nicest and most sincere posts on this subject anyone could write.

Heck, you might not even know who it'll be until you get inside the voting booth. Whenever you come to a tough crossroads, the only advice I can give is that if you've thought it over and over and you can't figure it out, then you should go with what your heart tells you and not so much with your head. IOW, even if you're not sure it's the most practical choice, do what will make you feel the happiest. That way there will be no looking back.

:thumbsup:
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
31. You will know what is right in your OWN heart and mind
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 11:57 AM by mtnester
when you get in the ballot box.

I am exactly where you are, and I have until March 4. With the exact same arguments and list (almost identical....mine differ SLIGHTLY in that my son is gay, so that enters into the picture some)

Seriously..you will know what do do by then...you will decide what the RIGHT thing to do for you in order to keep that nasty bunch of squatters in the WH from moving their buddies in for another 8 years.

I trust you to make the right decision for yourself. :)


As a slight aside - Can I ask a question though..your household has to have been...interesting...here lately yes? :) (I could be wrong but I though H2 has made up his mind)

Oh And tell H2 no bangers for him at Trader Joes! (well, maybe if he is careful about it)
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. H2S is undecided, too!!
He's maybe more negative on both of them, I think? (Where I'd say, "I'm kind of bothered about how..." He'd say, "I f**ing can't STAND how..." But perhaps I exaggerate!)

For a while, I thought of not voting at all and just letting other people decide. At other times, I've thought of voting opposite H2S after he decides, in a sense letting other people decide but still getting counted for Dem turnout. But I don't know -- maybe we won't tell each other until after we vote! We'll see...

(I had to ask him what "bangers" are! He's upset Costco hasn't had the kind of sopresato he loves.)
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Here's a thought...
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 12:13 PM by spooky3
If you view them as essentially evenly qualified, considering everything, then why not use your vote to send a clear message to the corporate media, who clearly has NOT treated them as evenly qualified? One candidate has gotten essentially a free pass, with occasional, inappropriate smear attempts but mostly laudatory admiration, while the other has been rather consistently treated in a condescending, dismissive, and discriminatory manner (http://mediamatters.org). Tell those media they will not decide your candidate and you won't put up with that treatment directed at any good Democrat.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Sparkly...
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 12:26 PM by mtnester
Don't let the primary poo poo stop you.

The carrot is the WH...and as my wonderful son says:

"Mom, I know you are mad about so and so's position on gay marriage, however, sometimes, when you cross the street, you have to step in something nasty to GET there"

When my candidate "suspended" his run out of the blue (another discussion for another day), I too thought what the hell, why bother...then man, i realized I had family DIE for the honor of getting this country Independence, and they would KICK my ass if I rolled over like that.

If I have to hold my nose..so be it, but, when it comes right down to it, the goal is to make damn sure the Repubs do not get our house back, and ultimately enough of a majority in the senate to shut them down for a decade so we can fix the damage they have done to this country of ours.

THAT is the carrot on the end of the stick for me in the end. Which candidate does that is irrelevant to me at this point, but rest assured, I will let my instinct guide me at the ballot.



Edited for egregious typo.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. You're too kind ........
...... your description is far from an exaggeration.

I really do have a remarkably high negative feelings toward both of them for different reasons. I ***want*** to like them both. I am predisposed to like them both. Instead I find myself defending whichever of them seems to be taking more shit at any given moment.

In the end, I will choose one to vote for tomorrow and will vote for (and most likely work for) whoever wins the nom.

But I ***really*** have no horse in this race so far.

"Okay, Stinky," some might say, "who **do** you want to run?"

Fair question. I wanted a Gore/Clark ticket. I then favored, at various times for various reasons, BidenRichardsonDodd. But my own personal values have always been most closely aligned with Kucinich (who was somewhat mirrored in Clark, actually). But even for all that, no one induced me to name them as my favored candidate.

So here I sit all undecided ...... and for that I'm feeling self-chided.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. Sparkly, I ask that you vote for Obama!
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 12:16 PM by FrenchieCat
He was against the war from the beginning, just like Wes Clark was. His Foreign policy lean is very much like Wes Clarks....he wants to negotiate and talk to our enemies.

Like Wes Clark, Obama did NOT approve of the IRAN Resolution, that was ill timed, and that Hillary voted for. Obviously, Hillary doesn't listen to Wes Clark as much as would like to think that she does.

Obama voted YES to BAN Cluster Bombs in Civilian Areas, while Hillary voted NO.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-rees/clinton-obama-and-clust_b_84811.html

Obama has clearly stated that his VP will need to know the pentagon and possibly be ex-military. He describes Wes to a "T"! If Clinton doesn't win, don't think that Wes, if asked, will turn down Obama.


Hillary will have you think Wes might be Veep, but I don't believe her. She'll select whomever is best to help her win, instead......and I don't believe that it will be another Arkansas native.


Listen to this Obama interview, and hear him talk about his possible Veep requirements yourself.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4089397

Don't suspect in your hearts of hearts that OBama can't win because he's Black....he can very much so, and some will have to do with precisely the fact that he is. He has ran a campaign that has been flawless, and Hillary as the inevitable for so long, just hasn't lived up to expectation in the manner in which she has managed hers. Experience is not Hillary's forte, it is McCains. She won't be able to argue the Iraq War except for how to go on from here, and because she was wrong from the onset, McCain will be given greater authority on National Security matters. Obama was right from the onset, and so he stands from a point of strength against McCain starting from day one.

Just think about what we will be telegraphing to the world and to ourselves. Small children all over the United States, whatever their background, will get out of their bed knowing that anything is possible for them. That will make a difference in their lives. You can play a part in making it so.



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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
38. Don't forget Obama's Chicago-area political roots.
I think he will prove to be just as much of a canny fighter as Clinton is, albeit differently.

That said, I'm following this thread with interest, 'cause I'm still going back and forth myself.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Good luck .....I don't know either but I have until May 5th....
It's definitely a hard decision for many of us...who've lost the candidates we would have had to problem voting for.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. Understand Your Dilemma
Clinton voted for the war and (as you stated) and won't acknowledge the mistake in judgment

Obama doesn't seem to recognize that */Cheney committed high crimes and misdemeanors during the last 8 years and that holding them accountable is not politicization but justice.
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
45. Here's to the listmakers, makers of lists!
I have then too - pro and con for each, under different categories of policy, style, etc. - and totally appreciate the humorous take on what so many dems of good heart are going through.

I've also been thinking of what kind of "unifying the two camps" VP strategy looks viable, even considering the fact that someone who can deliver a state or region is usually the main deciding factor - and see Obama/Clark as a great balance. Clinton/Obama is possible but unlikely, and I am unsure what VP choice from Obama's "camp" could work under the Clintons. They will more likely go for a state they need, as they are more traditional in their strategy - Bayh, Rendell, Vilsack et al are extremely non-inspiring to me.

That leaves Clinton/Clark, two Arkansans (!) who would also be a very nice balance.

What I want beyond just victory in this race, is the strong theme of dawning a new era, pulling back from Empire, respect for the constitution, human rights and dignity, and a repudiation of the zero sum game of world resources and neocon game playing. Tall order!

In my mind, the structural issues are rising to the top, as their are so many policy similarities.
I do admit that the vote on Cluster bombs in civilian areas, which I had missed, moved me more than minor differences in healthcare or energy -both of which will be reshaped in the legislative process - just because it is so viscerally felt in the core of my being.
Who will be a stronger proponent of banning landmines and clusterbombs?
Who will do the most to restore Habeus Corpus and spying on citizens?
Who will have the most modern understanding of open records and internet use?

These are the structural issues that need to be addressed with care, and from which good policy can then be made - much of what we need to do in post Bush era is to look at those structural issues with a fresh eye.

I respect whatever choice you make, as I do for us all.
Ms Prophet and I have until next month, she a strong Edwards supporter with a decision to make, me with my list and my ponderings over the possible futures that will unfold in each scenario. We get along just fine! :toast:
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