Leaning Obama... but willing to acknowlede the misogyny

[cap]

I am leaning Obama... but we have to acknowledge the misogyny in SOME of the attacks on Clinton. There is a lot of denial in American society about racism and misogyny. The classic defense is that I AM NOT RACIST OR MISOGYNIST, but that particular person is defective... and, yet, somehow, the next person is defective and the next and the next...

Why don't we start to acknowledge that there has been a lot of unfairness in the opposition to both our candidates? Right now Hillary is getting the worst. Many attacks on her are personally denigrating. Bush sr. crying over GW hosing Jeb's chances for the Presidency has received none of the attention that Hillary tearing up (but not crying) does.

However, there is a lot of closet hatred going on in the hinterland about Obama. I am hearing the N word being used... and stories about how in the old days, N------s were run out of town...what the speaker was implying is too terrible to think of. (BTW, I tried to start a thread about this but it got hijacked and the moderator rightfully closed it down). I am seriously getting concerned that the old nasty boys are going to be up to their dirty tricks in the rural areas. I am getting worried about more than just voter intimidation... and I am worried about safety of rural African American Americans. Yes, I am worried about the rise of the Klan.

The two are related and to think that those who have their guns trained on Hillary are not going to be turning them very quickly on Obama is very naive. After building up Obama so much, they will pick on him with a vengeance. Watch and see. We will see them crank up the meme that somehow Obama is very much less than competent.

After watching so much misogyny, I am getting very disheartened about the state of women in these United States. Outside of traditional female dominated professions (and law and health care), I just don't see senior women in any great numbers. I see the same tactics used against them -- shunning, name calling, blowing small things out of proportion, etc. My one critique about Obama is that I am not sure that he will do very much to change these things. Where are the women on his campaign (in senior positions) ? We are in need of radical reform to remedy the state of women in this country. No one is talking about this.

When can we come together and understand that the same tactics used on women are the same ones used by racists?

[SteppingRazor]

1. It's particularly sad because sexism is so much more tolerated than racism...

not saying that black people have it easy, or that there isn't a problem with racism -- God knows there is -- but society at large tends to shun overt racists, while overt sexists are perfectly acceptable.

[Cary]

2. I think we have two excellent candidates.

I don't think the problem Hillary Clinton faces is misogyny, per se. I think the problem is that some of us are willing to accept the propaganda of rightists.

That said, I would love to see a female president. Women are more than half of our population. We are long overdue for a female president.

That said, I voted for Obama, but I would happily support Hillary Clinton if she were our nominee.

[cooolandrew]

3. I think you put your points very fairly in this post, but Hillary I feel may not be the solution.

[rodeodance]

4. great post. I agree with first poster--sexism is more tolerated--as is clear on this board.

[cap]

5. The question is how do we get people to examine their prejudices

without requiring them to support a candidate that does not conform with their rational differences of opinion.

Whenever we bring up misogyny, everyone is saying PERSONALLY, I AM FAIR. Yet, they are repeating the conservative vitriol. The memes of Hillary's insincerity and emotional manipulation are repeated ad nauseum here. I am wondering if it is fair game to ask the mods to shut down these threads. I think we need a discussion of what is truly out of bounds on this board in terms of sexism and what is a fair critique of the person. When we decide what the limits are, we can ask Skinner and the mods to enforce them.

[lurky]

6. Racism and misogyny have been a factor,

but I wouldn't blame either candidate's success, or lack-thereof, on it. For instance, many people (myself included) would love to elect a female president, but have serious misgivings about HRC's policy and political methods.

Despite the screaming and yelling, I think a lot of good will come out of this race. It is forcing us to have a national conversation about racism and misogyny, something we have tried to sweep under the rug for far too long. Many people assume that racism and sexism are the exclusive domain of hillbillies and cigar-smoking loudmouths. I think this campaign has forced people to address the subtler forms of bias and the fact that prejudices exist (GASP!) among liberals and democrats as well as angry Limbaugh listeners. I think that is progress.

[cap]

7. exactly............

I don't think it is fruitful to say which is worse racisim or sexism. Toni Morrison's remark on racism, "IT HURTS" can be equally applied to sexism. IT HURTS.

Hillary's methods are a hard one for me to judge because she has been subjected to sooo much slime. She and her husband are some of the few who have fought back successfully against the right wing machine. At times, it gets hard to know what is a justified criticism and what is something cooked up by people who want to shut down any dissent at all.

On the other hand, I've seen women shut down over the completely stupid and inane. Some of this is our society's fault. On the other hand, Hillary is no saint either.

[Little Star]

8. Would you also consider the disenfranchisement a caucus

causes? Many of his wins were in caucus states. Just give it some thought.

A caucus process:
partisans who live within a relatively small geographic area — a local precinct — get together and vote for delegates who are pledged to support specific candidates. Those delegates, in turn, represent their precinct at a county convention, which chooses delegates to attend the state convention. And the delegates to the state convention select delegates to represent the state at the national convention. Although this system involves several months, the candidate preferences are essentially determined in the first round of voting. Causing the disenfranchisement of many voters. Handicapped, elderly, shy people, people who do not have a good command of the english language, people who are private and don't want to wear their vote on their sleeve all get disenfranchised by a caucus. Even if these people attended, who would want to be the one seen as racist?

Primaries provide a much longer period of time during the day to cast a ballot, they provide privacy from spouses, neighbors, bosses,etc. Caucus only allow certain hour/hours to caucus, which leave many who cannot get there at that specific time disenfranchised. Primaries are the only real democratic way to select a nominee.

[David Zephyr]

9. In the end, cap, we have to tune out the zealots in both camps and follow our hearts.

I sincerely am hoping for an Obama/Clinton ticket. I can see no other one that would be better on too many dimensions to even list here. I will also support enthusiastically a Clinton/Obama ticket if that's how it all turns out in the end, although I prefer the former.

And you are right in that the same tactics that are used by racists are used by sexists and also by homophobes, too.

If you come over to Barack, as I did only last month after being indecisive throughout all of 2007, I would be proud to have you with us.

[cap]

10. I will definitely be onboard after the nomination whoever it is...

I am battling a skanky part of me that "just wants to win" as opposed to "who's the best candidate".

Also, my assessment of "who's the best" varies day to day and from mood to mood.

I am getting very concerned about the state of women in this country though. I want someone who will finally lead us to the promised land.

Part of me is really saying the whole applecart just needs to be turned upside down. Come what may. We can't make an incremental change.

[backscatter712]

11. There's definitely sexism and racism in play.

It exists in all of us - even if we don't believe it.

What we need to do is recognize it, so we can work to eliminate it.

IMHO, a lot of what's happening with Clinton is that while men are expected to take leadership roles, raise their voice, and act assertively, the same behavior from women tends to cause a backlash. When Clinton gets up on that podium and speaks out, people say she's "shrill" or a "bitch" because she doesn't pull punches, just like men in the same situation don't pull punches.

It's sexism, and we need to recognize it. Same thing with racism with Barack Obama - there are a lot of people reacting badly when they see a black man taking a leadership role.

I'm an Obama supporter, but I want to make sure my decision is based on the issues, on the voting records, and on fair criteria. That means I have to recognize if bigotry or misogynism is corrupting my judgment.

[XemaSab]

12. Here's the deal, and maybe I'm sexist to say this

but I think Hillary is acting like a victim, and that's not helping her feminist cause at all.