American Voters are always Duped

[Altec]

Bill Clinton in 92 Debate:
"The most important distinction in this campaign is that I represent real hope for change...It's time to change. I want to bring that change to the American people but we must all decide first we have the courage to change for hope and a better tomorrow. We have to change in this country...We have got to have the courage to change. Experience is important yes...We need a new approach, the same old experience is not relevant."

George Bush in 2000:
"I totally recognize I'm not of Washington, but it's time to get someone in Washington that is going to work with Republicans and Democrats...I'm going to work with Republicans and Democrats to reform the system."

Obama in 2008:
"I am running for President...because I believe I can reach out to independents, and yes, some Republicans who have lost faith in their government.

Americans always seem to reach out to the candidate who can attain the label of change, a new approach, etc. Are we all suckers for the hope of change, or is it just a natural cycle where 8 years of Democrat ideology make us want 8 years of Republican ideology, and vice versa?

[cd3dem]

1. Obama at best will get 4 years.. he will flop! no experience...

[Altec]

2. That's may not be true

Depending on his first term. However, the only difference between him and Bill Clinton's platform is that Bill had been a governor for 12 years. But is that experience necessary?

[cd3dem]

4. Obama has no real accomplishments ... being a state senator is just that!

and even as a state senator he didn't do much ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?_r=1&ex=1202792400&en=c2c725d6db4ac9cf&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

add this to his resume...

[jackson_dem]

5. Bill had 12 years of experience. Obama has 3 and is running in wartime

[Johnny__Motown]

8. He also had 8 years at the state level, Also Governors have NO foreign policy experience at all

[jackson_dem]

9. Balancing the budget? Making the tough calls? How many vetos did Obama have?

Being a part-time legislator who voted "present" on numerous tough issues is not anything like being governor. Many people have went straight from governor to president. No one has went from state legislator straight to the White House. Folks understand the difference.

Foreign policy experience wasn't a big deal in 1992. The Cold War had just ended. This is 2008 in the age of terror. You better have foreign policy/security experience, especially against McCain!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Huh.

So are you saying McCain's foriegn policy experience is better then Obama's?

[jackson_dem]

12. McCain 21 years, Obama 3

Obama will get slaughtered solely on the security issue. His "unity"/post-partisanship thing won't work against the bipartisan McCain who has actually accomplished things across the aisle in his two decades in DC. The only thing Obama did with the rethugs was create a website with Coburn.

[Big Blue Marble]

3. I will check back with you in oh say about four and one half years from now.

You do not have a clue. You are just spitting hate.

[cd3dem]

6. I don't like lies and race card players... that doesn't make me clueless..

I have been a dem. all my life and I am politically active... my precinct chair and number one in my neighborhood for activism...

I must say... I have never disliked a dem. more than I do Obama... I really dislike dems. who feed on dems. for power!!!! not getting my vote nor my help!

[Big Blue Marble]

7. You are babbling accusations that are groundless.

Having said that, I appreciate your political activism. Not every activist likes every candidate.
I respect your opinion. You have the right to like and dislike any candidate
you choose.

I support your right to reject Obama. I support your right to not vote for him.

My only regret is that you offer such weak arguments for your strong position.

[cd3dem]

13. Not at all! I have unfortunately been watching the news too much...

and I saw the Clinton's turned into demons and racists... and Obama did NOTHING! the media took sound bites and made it look like Bill and Hillary were against blacks... it was edited to make it sound this way... and Obama should and does know better... they can edit speech and edit pictures... and Obama is more interested in getting elected than allowing the process determine who wins... and for that I cannot reward him by voting for him...

I will walk my streets and ask for votes for our open Congressional seat, but if I were to speak about Obama it would be bad or lies... and I will be out again in two years for the next campaign... and my word and honor does not allow me to endorse someone who plays the race card and turns the Black people and Whites against our own... especially a past president and senator running against him!

If it were just a difference in policy or issues or even the fact I do not think he is qualified! That is minimum next to not speaking out in defense of the Clinton's when attacked on race... with that he played the race card... not by his actions but by his inactions!

[Big Blue Marble]

15. Many of us have a different perspective on the Clinton's

behavior regarding racial statements made by Bill and the surrogates. I will not attempt to convince you otherwise.
But do know that most people who watched this unfold were incredulous. It has cost the Clintons dearly.

You believe it was the media that twisted everything. I do not. Could you offer an example in which the reporting
was edited in this way? And how do you feel about the inflammatory statements about Obama's drug use by
surrogates such as Bob Johnson? Those stand or fall under their own weight.


When all is said and done, more black people are choosing Obama, because of ethic pride than because
of anything Bill said, or the media did, or even what Bob Johnson said.

And few white persons were influenced by the attempts to marginalize Obama as the black candidate either.

As I said you are entitled to believe what you want. Much of this is a partisan battle within the party.
We all have different filters. Mine are no better or worse than yours just different. Please if you feel that injustice
has been done, stand by you principles. I support your fighting spirit. That is why you have been
an activist all these years.

[cd3dem]

16. they only play a few words at a time...

when Bill said it was a "Fairy Tale" he was referring to Obama's Iraq war position... fair play in my book... the media inferred he was saying Obama's run for president was a fairy tale... and it went on for days... until two three days out when everyone was pissed... they showed the part before that finally but it was stuck that Bill thinks a black man running for president is a fairy tale....

on the Jesse Jackson statement... much was said of SC 's past primaries by Bill... but they picked out the Jesse comment... and implied Bill was saying... it was only a black thing... which was out of context... there was a lot of talk more than what was played....

believe me I have seen pictures doctored with heads and bodies of two different people... they can do the same with speech...


and when Hillary referenced MLK everyone jumped on that as if to suggest she thought MLK was just a talker... does anyone truly believe Hillary and Bill have a low opinion of MLK? "NO" her point may not have been stated very well and maybe better she had not tried... but I understand her view... this world has many people who make history and have gifts... (read about the Gardners 7 intelligences below) Obama has the gift of speech... and speech can move many to act... but we also have people who are leaders in office who make movements happen... but NO we must not speak about the issues or debate things or we might be labeled racist... to me this brings both whites and blacks down as well as others...

the Clinton's could have saved a train full of African Americans from crashing... and it would not have mattered... they are forever tarnished and trashed... and I believe Obama took great advantage of the situation... and even if.... if.... he really did think the Clinton's were walking a thin line or acting racist... he should have been the bigger person who had the freedom to really speak without retribution...

He should have said, I believe Bill and Hillary to be good people and the media needs to stop!

http://professorlamp.com/ed/TAG/7_Intelligences.html

[Big Blue Marble]

18. Your examples speak to the sensitivity that is raised in running

against the first serious black candidate. You do know that there is a lot of code used in campaigns.
You say certain things that mean other things to certain people. Black people are very sensitive
to code. And Bill Clinton understands code as well as anyone alive today.

Speaking in code often means you can deny the superficial meaning and still get the message through.
When he said fairy tale, the black voters knew exactly what he was saying. Remember he was talking
to a white audience in NH. He was demeaning Obama. He wanted to demean Obama. And black voters
were the ones that called him on it first, not the MSM. It was all over black radio within hours.

The Jessie Jackson statement was incredibly more blatant. It, too, was meant for a white audience.
I watched that statement several times and in the fuller context of his statement. Now again I repeat
Bill is an astute politician and he was speaking again in code. We got his message loud and strong.
He wanted us to marginalize Obama as another black candidate.

You have a much higher opinion of the Clintons than I hold. From my perspective they are fighters
and to them that justifies whatever it takes to win. Scruples and ethics be damned. You may admire
that attribute. I do not. I think it hurts us all.

[cd3dem]

22. if you run for the presidency, and hit hard, you should take whatever!

Obama has slammed Hillary and Bill multiple times on many issues.. but that is all fair... but if Bill or Hillary question Obama it is code... I disagree! if we are to move past race, then we must stop having rules apply to one group and not the other... Obama criticized Hillary for her work in the Senate and yet if Obama is criticized for his work it is code...

no I disagree there was any code... I have seen editing and the such... this was swiftboating by the right wing and media and Obama ate it up... he should have spoken against it and therefore I cannot support him...

I "hate" this sort of thing... I feel it is divisive... and forwards no one... it pits blacks against whites with greater tension... it perpetuates the hate and distrust... I do not like it one bit!

People say Obama is NOT a black candidate but a candidate, yet this type of backlash tells us he is...

Obama in my opinion did the inexcusable... to allow a fellow democrat to be swiftboated! and I cannot support him... before I thought he was a decent senator and person who was not ready nor qualified... given more years, I would have been excited to see him run...

now I distrust him and find him overall unlikable! he has called Hillary Likable "enough"... this is rude! and frankly as a female I find this code to say... she isn't warm and feminine "enough" but i do not go there... I see it as just rude!

and because of his inexperience, I think he will be bad for the country and bad for the party... if Obama gets the nomination... and a pro-life candidate runs as an Independent, that is who I will vote for...

I will work to endorse our State Senator for US Congress.. that is something I can get excited about... Obama makes me upset!

[cd3dem]

17. more sites on multiple intelligence

this does not mean Obama or MLK lack in other than speech... but people with high linguistic ability tend to do best in jobs that match their strength... as a former career teacher... I feel Obama is not ready to be president... he is too new to the senate.. if he had waited.. and done it right.. I would have supported him...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

http://www.psy.pdx.edu/PsiCafe/KeyTheorists/Gardner.htm

[Big Blue Marble]

19. I agree in that I wish he could have waited a little longer as well.

But IMO, he is needed now. Our country has been politically frozen, stuck in polarizing devisions that have left us
floundering as a nation.

HRC in that regard would be more of the same. And that is if she could win. With her in the presidency, it would
once again become all about the Clintons. The right wing would re-emerge just when we have them on the ropes.
The country would again be fractionalized and the people's issues marginalized just as they were in Bill's second
term. Nothing got done in that second term, nothing of relevance to our lives.

It is a risk to elect Obama. But I will chose that risk any day to going backward into the morass of the old
left-right fights of the nineties. That, as I said, assumes she could win. Her shot at winning is not nearly as good.
And god help us if Bomb, bomb, Iran McCain is elected.

[apnu]

11. Funny the same was said about Chimpy

He slept through most of his Texas governorship... talk about no experience. He still doesn't know what he's doing.

Experience and entrance the Oval Office mean nothing really.

This 'Experience' is just a meme from Obama's opponents, no matter who they may be.

Were Edwards the nominee, he'd be facing the same thing.

[cd3dem]

14. You forget Bush cheated to win both times!

[apnu]

20. No I didn't forget that.

It doesn't matter if he came in the front door or back door, he still didn't have any experience to speak of running much of anything.

Here's a quick Bush, January 2001 story for you:

I work for a commodities brokerage firm in Chicago. 90% of the people here are staunch Regan people. The owner of the company has a copy of the poster from the 1984 Dallas GOP Convention hanging in his office. Every time I have to go in there and fix his computer makes me want to hurl... but moving on....

I was sitting in the break room chilling out one day and a bunch of the brokers came in to have a smoke or 4 and all they could talk about was Bush getting in the Oval Office. Of that, all they could talk about was "at least he's smart enough to surround himself with smart people." they said repeatedly to each other. And they looked pretty worried when they said those things. They consoled themselves with a few Regan has-beens, and wondered about Powell yet wished Norman Schwarzkopf got the job over Powell.

I couldn't believe it. The only good thing they could say about their guy after the 2000 was about how good his cabinet was going to be? Talk about low expectations. These staunch party loyalists felt Bush didn't have it to be a good President but felt we weren't going to go into the drink because of a few "smart people" in the cabinet and advisors.

My point is: this 'experience' bullshit is just that, bullshit. When you hear it, call it.

[VotesForWomen]

21. yep; there's one born every minute. nt