Should Florida and Michigan hold a Spring caucus?

[Pryderi]

Poll question: Should Florida and Michigan hold a Spring caucus?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Other: Give Edwards all the delegates.

[1monster]

48. Hey, I like that idea!

[GalleryGod]

2. No, but, a Spring Prom would be appropriate.

Probably in Palm Beach.

[Ian David]

3. If Florida cared about their vote, they would have done something after 2000. n/t

[1monster]

52. We cared. But remember, Jeb Bush and all his henchmen were in charge.

He stymied all efforts to change things for the better, even pushed legislation through which made recounts and paper trails null and void.

We cared. We still care.

[GP6971]

4. I'd prefer a primary instead n/t

[arthritisR_US]

46. Me too...caucuses leave out too many people. n/t

[Jane Austin]

5. Yes, and if Gov. Dean asked for it,

I'd contribute to help defray the cost.

[WilyWondr]

6. Nope

1. They had their primary already. So your question should refer to a second primary.
2. The states voted to hold their primaries early.
3. They knew the consequences when they voted to do that.

[1monster]

53. The voters in Florida DID NOT vote to hold early primaries. We were not consulted.

The state legislature voted to hold early primaries.

[endarkenment]

7. They knew the rules when they moved their primaries.

Changing the rules because your candidate is losing is, to put it mildly, bad form.

[VotesForWomen]

14. yeah, besides, who needs FL and MI in the GE? screw 'em. nt

[ORDagnabbit]

8. they should hold spring primaries paid for 50% by the DNC and 50% by the state

[Pathwalker]

9. Then it will never happen. Michigan is broke.

[TheDonkey]

15. I'd agree with that, at the end of the calendar

[juajen]

30. Well, since Obama wants a revote so badly, let him pay for it.

He has scads of money. However, only a primary, no caucuses.

[TheDonkey]

36. Actually Hillary would be more able to take the check but again she won't release her records!!

Maybe she is broke and embarrassed?? Why won't Hillary release her financial records.

[juajen]

10. Caucuses are not fair. They leave out all of the people who

have already voted in FL and MI, and leave out the poor and hard working middle class who cannot afford to lose that much time from work. Some of these people are working extra jobs and overtime to make ends meet. In addition, it puts Obama at an advantage because his overwhelming young vote stomps all over the elderly that might go to caucus if they could stand that up that long This should never happen. Before any of you take this occasion to make fun of the elderly, who might or might not be able to stand that long, please remember that diabetics have a condition called neuropathy, which I have, and in no way could go through the physical discomfort of a caucus. Of course this disenfranchises the elderly and we know how many elderly people retire to FL and vote every time the polls are open. Additionally, there's the problem that this vote is not secret and intimidation of opposition voters has been rife in this election season.

So, no easy solution comes to mind that is better than giving Hillary her damn votes. After all, the voters had nothing to do with this fiasco, nor can the vote ever be an honest vote taken out of time.

[WilyWondr]

20. "the voters had nothing to do with this fiasco"

How do you figure?

The state representatives of these people made this change knowing the consequences. They voted to move their primary. End of story. The people in those states could have contacted their state representatives to voice their opinion on the matter(I am sure some did). That is how a representative government works AFAIK.

[juajen]

29. Yeah, and no "do-overs" to give your candidate an advantage.

We're mature, not stupid.

[VotesForWomen]

11. no CAUCUS. caucuses are a joke. a primary, maybe. nt

[sniffa]

19. Why do you say that?

:shrug:

[jackson_dem]

12. Their delegates should be seated. Millions already voted in those states

[IndianaGreen]

17. No, Hillary, your shameless attempt to get delegates you don't deserve

and your despicable attempt to get the superdelegates to invalidate the popular vote, will get you a mass rejection by the people.

[jackson_dem]

21. Millions of voters in Florida and Michigan don't count because the DNC screwed up?

[IndianaGreen]

25. The DNC did not screw up! It was the politicians in FL and MI that overplayed their hand

and they used the Democratic voters as pawns in the head game they played.

[juajen]

28. Aren't you funny! You know that if they are counted, she will

win the delegate vote and the popular vote. You are trying to invalidate her win to benefit your candidate. That's what's despicable.

[IndianaGreen]

33. She won MI and FL the same way Saddam used to win elections in Iraq, without opposition!

Your faux outrage and concern about voting rights is really amazing when one considers how Hillary tried to suppress voters in Nevada, and her husband played the race card in SC.

[1monster]

55. In Florida, all the candidates were on the ballot. Clinton did not run unopposed.

BTW, I didn't vote for her. I voted for Kucinich. My second choice was Edwards. I have no third choice. To me, there is little difference between the two remaining candidates.

But I do believe that the people of Michigan should have a do over. The people of Florida don't need a do over. Just count their votes and seat their delegates.

(No need to seat the Super Delagates from either state, though. THEY are the ones who played chicken. Let them reap the consequenses.

[totodeinhere]

40. Not really.

Obama might have a large enough lead in pledged delegates that even if they count Florida and Michigan he will still be ahead. Look for Obama to pick up more delegates in Wisconsin, Hawaii, Vermont, Oregon, and Rhode Island. That should be enough to offset the results from Ohio and Texas even if Hillary manages to pull out narrow wins in those two states, which I doubt.

[anigbrowl]

51. No she won't

She only got a 57 delegate advantage from the two contests. Obama leads in pledged delegates by 103 as of last night. See my post below for the math. FL and MI won't bring her the nomination.

[jackson_dem]

59. Only if you assume uncommitted in Michigan will all go to Obama...

[jackson_dem]

58. Yup. How can we win the general if we disenfranchise Florida and Michigan?

We lost Florida in 2004 and won Michigan by 2 or 3. Do you think they will vote for us if we disenfranchise millions of folks in those states?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. No.

No changing the rules after the game. No do-overs.

This isn't square ball.

[goodgd_yall]

16. No, they should work with the results they already have.

Give Michigan's uncommitted to Obama and distributes Florida's as they are.

Caucuses are disenfranchising.

[ORDem]

18. Only after the other States are done voting. n/t

[Meshuga]

22. I would say yes however...

I think primaries would be fair.

[Johnny__Motown]

23. That or don't seat the delegates

It isn't fair to the people who didn't vote because they thought they wouldn't have delegates seated anyways.


Changing things after the fact simply isn't fair.

[ButterflyBlood]

24. I voted yes, but it should be summer

After everywhere else has voted.

[Little Star]

26. NO! NO! NO! Primary maybe. There is a system already in place

to seat those delegates. Saw it explained on TV by Donna Brazile?? who said the system has already been used before and it worked. This was a couple of weeks ago and I can't remember the details. It was on tv so I have no link, sorry.

[zonkers]

27. Why, so they can truly be rewarded instead of being punished for violating party rules?

By having their votes count even more? No way.

[juajen]

35. Once again, the voters only did what they were told to do.

If you want to punish someone, punish the people who made the decision. The fact is, with FL, Hillary is, once again, ahead in the popular vote and in delegates. Florida is a highly populated state. Of course, with his current momentum, Obama wants a "do-over". With the circumstances possibly changing, that disenfranchises Hillary Clinton.

[zonkers]

45. Moving convention up was a punk move. If FL Dem Officials really wanted to act in the

best interest of FL Dems, they would be taking radical steps in fighting voter disenfranchisement in their fucked up state. Ain't no way, they cured that problem. They are just waisting time with this pissing contest. BTW, I've lived in FL.

[thoughtcrime1984]

47. The votes were done under the premise that the delegates

wouldn't count. That kept some Obama supporters at home, hell, he wasn't on the MI ballot. Allow campaigning there, let's do this right. This is only the fifteenth time I've had to explain why we can't all of the sudden count delegates under a false pretense vote. You just cannot wrap your head around this for some reason. I suppose changing the rules after the fact is the Clinton way, though.

[Romulox]

39. The "rules" say that the credentials committe gets to decide.

I'm sure you're at least as adamant about following that rule as you are about disenfranchising Michigan, aren't you?

<crickets>

[zonkers]

56. Florida is still on probation in my book. No problem with Mich.

[MadBadger]

31. Id prefer a primary, but if only a caucus can be done, than yes

[Indenturedebtor]

32. No

Sorry but just no. I'm glad that HRC got to run a fun little gorilla campaign in those states... and she won... that's just lovely. But they broke the rules a decision was made, and it's too late to go back now.

Next time around FL and MI.

And this is NOT going to happen unless she leads the legitimate popular vote count. If she's already won then who cares? :shrug:

But they shouldn't get to have a say in the Democratic primaries after breaking the rules of the democratic primaries.

[nonconformist]

34. No. It would cost millions of dollars.

Millions have voted, and shouldn't be disenfranchised. Give the Uncommitted votes to Obama (as he told his supporters to vote) and seat the delegates. It's the right thing to do.

[Romulox]

37. Not. Going. To. Happen. Forget it!

Moreover, a choice of amongst the two candidates still standing is not the same thing as a real choice.

The DNC wants us to sanctify its highly undemocratic primary scheme after the fact, after the truly important players have already winnowed the field.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

[shayes51]

38. No. They already voted. Count them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. No. Florida Should Seat The Delegates That Were Already Legitimately Chosen. FL Already Voted, And

did so with a loud legitimate voice. Personally, with all the caring towards the integrity of elections DU'ers as a WHOLE are generally found to hold, I'm a bit in shock how quickly they'll turn away from that integrity when it serves to benefit their candidate.

Seat the FL delegates. It's the honorable thing to do and the only decision with integrity.

[goldcanyonaz]

42. No, they already voted.

[bunnies]

43. Only if they want their votes to count. nt

[tokenlib]

44. YES, My primary was DEFECTIVE, ....

...defective products get recalled. So I want my vote back.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

49. Grudgingly, yes

If the delegates are going to be seated, then there should be a caucus or primary. And it looks like the DNC will fold and seat the delegates.

My first choice is no don't have a caucus/primary, and don't seat the delegates. The primary was flawed (at least in MI) so just drop it. And just for good measure, don't seat any MI superdelegates. That would seem fair.

Again, I'm just talking about MI, since that's where I "voted" in the primary. FL delegates, well, that's up to Floridians.

[anigbrowl]

50. Seat the delegates. It's good for Obama (really)

Here's why:

Florida: 210 Delegates
Clinton 50% - 105
Obama 33% - 70

Michigan: 168 delegates
Clinton 55% - 86
'Uncommited' 40% - 64

I think it's fair to assume 'uncommitted' delegates will vote for Obama. Everyone in MI already had a chance to vote Clinton.

Clinton 105 + 86 = 191
Obama 70 + 64 = 134

191 - 134 = 57

So FL and MI = 57 extra delegates for Hillary Clinton.

Obama is leading her by 103 at the moment. As long as he holds his lead, it won't make a damn bit of difference. He can afford to give Hillary her precious result and he still leads the delegate race; meanwhile the argument that voters in FL and MI have been disenfranchised goes up in smoke.

[cooolandrew]

54. Some voted , to disenfranchise 2 whole states. They havent voted yet as they classed the 1st illegal

[DrFunkenstein]

57. Pottery Barn Rule

They were warned, they went ahead, they own it.

[tritsofme]

60. Will millions of people show up?

Not likely to be a quarter as representative as FL's primary.