Is McClurkin a non-issue?

[Clintonista2]

Poll question: Is McClurkin a non-issue?

[Occam Bandage]

1. It's certainly a non-issue outside the netroots, and it's barely an issue here.

[jackpan1260]

2. It is an issue, but not one that would make me think about voting for Hillary

ever.

[miceelf]

45. Me either

BOTH candidates regularly attend and campaign in churches led by homophobic ministers. Senator Clinton attends weekly prayer meetinds with some of the worst homophobes in congress.

[msongs]

3. 20,000,000 americans oughta just STFU and vote for Obama nt

[Sapphocrat]

82. Hey, don't give the Obama campaign any news ideas for rally chants! n/t

[mitchtv]

4. get over it?

Yo Mama

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. It's an issue. But not the deciding issue for me. nt

[Lucinda]

6. It is an issue for me...but there will be nothing done about it.

[Sapphocrat]

7. Lirwin, you KNOW...

...how badly the results are going to be skewed.

But thanks for trying, anyway.

[theHandpuppet]

12. Yes, but there is another angle (or two) to this poll

This poll and its results (plus a number of the comments here) can tell us just where many GLBTs and their concerns stand with the DU community. In addition, we can gauge by the responses just where the support or lack thereof can be attributed. From the small sampling I've seen so far I'd say we're finding little support among those who align themselves with Obama, but of course this is not a scientific sampling. Still, it's quite revealing.

[Sapphocrat]

81. Heck, Lirwin didn't have to go through the trouble of posting a poll...

...to determine there's "little support among those who align themselves with Obama" -- I coulda told ya that!

(Seriously, I see what you mean.)

[stahbrett]

8. Your choice of wording is great! You must be a push-poller

Obama DID address this issue, quite clearly. The various endorsements from gay-rights entities indicates it isn't a big issue for most people, unless they happen to be a Clinton supporter.

[ecstatic]

9. When someone does something that we don't like, we have choices in how to interpret those actions

Some people naturally want to assume the worst, while others are willing to grant a person the benefit of the doubt.

:scared:

[Sandaasu]

10. It's an issue, but I'd say it's less of an issue than Hillary's continued support of DOMA.

[TheWraith]

11. Yes. Always has been...

... aside from those few who seem hell-bent on spinning a musical act by a dimwit into a world-shattering scandal.

[cboy4]

31. I like (NOT) how you feel you get to decide what are

non-issues concerning gay people.

Very, very revolting.

I'm 99% certain you're not a minority.

[emilyg]

13. It's an issue.

[David Zephyr]

14. Oh goody! Here's another McClurkin post here at the GP: Primaries Forum. It's become a bad cliche.

What ever happened to the "Today is the one-millionth thread on the one-millionth day of no apology from Obama" thread by another Clinton supporter. Did that one finally die off? I almost miss its petulance for the sheer amusement it gave me.

That thread seemed to rise like a zombie from the dead up every morning along with the newer and never-ending P2BA threads. They were like distasteful cosmetic jewelry, gawdy enough to catch the eye, but repelling in the cheapness of the sentiment.

Perhaps the "1,000,000th Day Without An Apology" should be re-instated as if only to serve the useful purpose as flypaper to provide a single location for these thinly disguised attacks by Clinton supporters on Barack Obama who millions of gay and lesbian Americans, like myself, proudly support.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

44. Obama "..I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and..."

I'm not voting one way or another in the OP's poll.

Barack Obama's first responsiblity as President would be his responsiblity to Americans, all Americans.

Senator Obama recently released this statement:

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts of our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/lcherryvincent/CJGk#comments

[davidinalameda]

72. we have a winner!

[Sapphocrat]

85. Wow! I've never heard that before! That changes everything!

:eyes:

You think repeating this same old quote eight million times (like a chant) is going to make us suddenly "come to Obama"?

If you don't get it, you either haven't read up on our discussions about it here, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

Whatever your problem, one fact remains: You don't get it.

[HeraldSquare212]

118. Clinton never disavowed the views of the anti-gay minister whose fundraiser she attended.

Why isn't that an issue?

[sampsonblk]

15. "Get over it" is a little rude. But yes, its not an issue in this campaign

No need to be rude to each other. We're all Democrats here.

[Clintonista2]

16. "Get over it" is the exact phrasing used by some here

to describe the McClurkin controversy.

[Sapphocrat]

83. We know: It's not an issue to you. It never has been. n/t

[sampsonblk]

95. That sounds like a grudge.

Happy Valentine's Day to you, too.

[Sapphocrat]

148. Not at all.

You've made your stance clear, repeatedly, in the past.

Happy Valentine's to you and yours, too.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Obama did not give us DOMA and DADT

It was the Clintons!

[hulklogan]

33. You're right! Obama gave us McClurkin and "a basic set of rights"

Praise Barack!

[Chovexani]

144. Basic rights are just like basic cable

Cheap and shitty. Why the fuck can't we have HBO like everyone else?

[jlake]

34. Obama campaigns for our sins.

[hulklogan]

42. Post of the week!

[TankLV]

53. No - it was the REPUKES - and we're tired of educating you on this...

stop spreading the LIES goddammit...

[IndianaGreen]

157. Clinton could have vetoed DOMA, and the GOP lacked the votes to override

but it was easy for Clinton, a man that appears to suffer from closet homophobia, to throw LGBTs under the bus. It was Clinton who in 2004 told Kerry to speak against LGBT marriage rights.

[jlake]

18. Anyone who thinks it is a non issue needs to be tombstoned.

Homophobia is unacceptable.

[Duncan Grant]

76. They only tombstone bigots.

It's okay to trivialize gay people and tacitly support right-wing Christian ex-gay reparative therapy.

Yes We Can. Rah. Rah. Rah.

[Jamastiene]

19. It IS an issue to me.

It makes me wonder what kind of Supreme Court appointees he would pick. Does he owe favors to the homophobe crowd? Is that where he'll reward them for their support. The McClurkin deal proved he is awfully opportunistic at the expense of other people's rights.

THAT is why it IS an issue for me.

[Rowdyboy]

20. To some gays it is an issue.....Most of the electorate has no idea what ....

you're talking about.

[LeftyMom]

64. It's an issue to me.

[mtnsnake]

21. If Obama gets the nod, I'm confident that he will address the issue in proper fashion

....probably by naming Donnie McClurkin as his presidential campaign manager.

[cboy4]

38. And maybe even a cabinet position dealing with

faith based charities (anti-gay concerts), if Obama is elected.

McClurkin will sleep in the closet, naturally. during late pow pows at the White House -- and then drive the bus over teh gays who've been thrown under by day.

[Sapphocrat]

88. And then, instead of singing at the Inauguration Ball...

...he can emcee the first-ever White House Purity Ball.

[PurityOfEssence]

22. Sadly, it should not be an issue should he be the nominee

Until then, regular reminders of ruthlessness are in order.

It's about character more than anything else, and that matters; this was the nastiest bit politicking by any major candidate in either party, and played with racism, religion and homophobia for keeps in one big melange of ugliness.

When stacking up the various character failings of Senator Clinton, though, it seems more and more like a pointless bit of accounting of relative scurrilousness. Personally, I only snipe occasionally at either of them of late; I've had my say at length about nominee choice and take my lumps for what they are. Electability is now the salient point, and I still can't divine who's got the edge.

Should he be given the mantle of our champion, we should grin and bear it, but I, for one straight person, am truly disgusted.

Rah rah rah for the tactical opportunists and sis-boom-bah for the Log Cabin Democrats.

[donheld]

23. One McClurkin does not negate the stands Obama has taken for us and

The keynote speech at the 2004 DNC convention. I believe one of the first to ever mention gays at a convention.

[Ediacara]

122. Actually, it's pretty much ruined all he's ever said

Obama's ACTIONS in hiring McClurkin, refusing to fire him under pressure, and allowing him to emcee an event on his behalf make his pretty words while speechifying meaningless.

[Beausoir]

24. It is THE issue for me. And it is why I can not vote for Obama.

[stahbrett]

27. Explain why please

Honest question, and I may not have all of the facts. My impression is that this gospel singer McClurkin has this wacky idea that gays can just change their minds about being gay. Pretty crazy, I'll grant you. But Obama said clearly and publicly that he doesn't agree with that.

So the question is, do all entertainers who are hired need to have all of their potentially wacky ideas vetted? What about ones that believe in a supreme being? Some find that wacky. What about people who believe in reincarnation, ghosts, UFO abductions, abstinence-only-programs, Elvis alive stories, etc.?

The only news that has really come out from this whole story is that there's a wacky gospel singer out there and Obama doesn't agree with him. That makes it more likely for folks who have never before hear his wacky theory to be prepared for it in the future, and know that it's wacky.

[Beausoir]

29. You are being obtuse. Obama hired and promoted a gay basher in order to garner votes.

I can not and will not ever support him. Never.

Obama threw people I love under the wheels of the bus in order to cash in on votes.

He has no shame and he has no decency.

[hulklogan]

32. You tell all the dead and homeless GLBT teenagers how

innocent McClurkin's "wacky idea" is.

The ex-gay movement is responsible for torturing hundreds, if not thousands of GLBT kids on a daily basis. If they though they could get away with waterboarding these children, they would.

The ex-gay movement can't be explained away as simply a "wacky idea."

[stahbrett]

41. then having the ex-gay movement receive more scrutiny was a good thing

How many folks in the country have actually even heard of the ex-gay movement? I've heard of it in a Law & Order episode I think - otherwise, never. So having his crazy/harmful idea (apologies if "wacky" was not strong enough - I agree with you on that in hindsight) exposed, I think, is a good thing.

[Clintonista2]

43. Having it ENDORSED by a DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE is not a good thing

Wouldn't you agree?

[stahbrett]

50. I agree - which is why I'm glad that Obama strongly and publicly disagreed

with McClurkin's ex-gay craziness.

[Clintonista2]

54. But don't you think that simply saying "I don't agree" doesn't make it better?

For example, if Hillary had appeared with an openly-racist man, what do you think the reaction would be? What if she publicly disagreed, would that make it better?

[stahbrett]

61. Since you brought her up, didn't Hillary have a fundraiser hosted by a misogynist rapper?

Referring to women as "ho", "bitch", etc. Makes women feel great to hear that!

The more the so-called "ex-gay" crap is exposed to the light of day, the better - people can be warned about it, and can help gay teens who somehow stumble across one of these wackos.

[hulklogan]

65. You mean the gay teens who are forced into torture camps by their parents?

I seriously doubt any of them happened to walk into an ex-gay ministry by mistake, found out they were giving electroshock this week, and decided to stay for the duration.

[TankLV]

55. by REPEATEDLY FEATURING him as a HEADLINER

and REFUSING to kick him off despite being BEGGED to do so by us...

obama essentially told us to fuck off...

[Clintonista2]

59. Remember "he'll just sing one song, that's it!"?

Then we find out he MC'd the event, and used it as a platform against gays.

[hulklogan]

58. He slapped us in the face and then strongly and publicly disagreed with slapping.

Praise Barack!

[Straight Shooter]

25. It's a BIG isue for me.

It's going to feel like selling my soul to the devil for me to fill in the oval on my Oregon ballot if obama is the nominee. This kind of duplicitous sh*t is garbage. So much for taking the high road.

[NMMNG]

26. It is not a non-issue

My Human rights are not a non-issue.
My life is not a non-issue.
The Human Rights and lives of my LGBT brothers and sisters are not a non-issue.



And I will not "get over it". I will not get over it until each and every one of us has our Human Rights. Not a "basic set of rights", but the same rights that other American citizens have. The same ones other taxpaying American adults have.

[theHandpuppet]

28. Well at least half of DUers would agree with you when you said...

"My Human rights are not a non-issue.
My life is not a non-issue.
The Human Rights and lives of my LGBT brothers and sisters are not a non-issue."

I guess that tells us where we stand, eh?

[NMMNG]

35. What's sad is that half wouldn't agree

I guess that does indeed tell us where we stand.

[miceelf]

47. BS

That wasn't how the poll was worded. Put up a poll asking if gay rights are an issue, and see how many people say no.

[NMMNG]

52. You can post three threads per day here.

If you feel so strongly about it you're free to create your own poll and test that theory.

[miceelf]

96. but

You're claiming the poll proved something it didn't. If you want to claim people don't care about gay rights, why not just ask them?

If I were to create a poll saying "Jena should count" would it be fair for me to interpret the "no" votes as "black people have too many damn rights already"?

[Clintonista2]

109. Because the bigots get the be anonymous when they vote in polls like this

and will therefore answer truthfully.

[NMMNG]

128. Just read over the responses in this thread

You'll see how little people care about gay rights. People repeatedly telling us they're tired of hearing about our melodrama, "this shit", etc. Then there's the name calling. That's always fun. No poll is needed for you to discern how LGBT rights are viewed here.

But again, if you really want a poll you're welcome to create one of your own. We'll just see how things pan out.

Better yet, see how the election goes. That will tell you more than any poll.

[Sapphocrat]

84. Haven't been here long, have you?

Try it yourself and see.

[Bluebear]

36. And now, "gays don't exactly represent America, you know"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4580002&mesg_id=4583972

[Sapphocrat]

86. I'd like to see somebody make a gay version of "A Day Without a Mexican". n/t

[hulklogan]

106. I was wishing for that too

and then I thought about how all of the militant fascist straights would probably watch it and think it was the greatest movie ever, an illustration of heaven on earth, and be inspired to do some LGBT cleansing. It scares me.

[ronnykmarshall]

132. Hair don'ts all over the nation!!

Brides going berserk w/o wedding planners.

Home Depot sales drop dramatically.

Golf courses empty!!

It would be total madness!

[Sapphocrat]

156. ...

:spray:

I predict "Hair don'ts all over the nation!!" will become an instant running line in this household from now on.

Love it. :rofl:

[hulklogan]

30. This is the reality of DU, and it's sickening that

about half of the people here couldn't care less about the GLBT community.

[totodeinhere]

57. Just because many of us think that McClurkin a non-issue,

that doesn't mean that we "couldn't care less about the GLBT community." Many of us might think that the DOMA is a more important issue and of course Clinton supports it. Or in other words, how we stand on the McClurkin case shouldn't necessarily be held out as a litmus test for whether or not we support the GLBT community. There are many other issues such a DOMA and DADT which are also important to consider.

[hulklogan]

60. Y'all have had 10+ years to deal with DOMA and DADT and ENDA

and all the rest.

How much do you really care?

[totodeinhere]

66. With the Repukes in charge during most of that time it's been hard.

But when Obama gets elected then hopefully all of those draconian laws will be done away with.

[hulklogan]

69. Don't hold your breath n/t

[totodeinhere]

71. Remember that the Obama campaign is all about "hope."

Those of us who support both the GBLT community and the candidacy of Senator Obama believe that hope can make a difference. When Obama takes office that hope for GLBT rights will be turned into action.

[hulklogan]

103. Show me some action, and then maybe I'll believe in Senator Obama

until then, just having hope isn't enough. Sorry.

[Sapphocrat]

91. Yes, it DOES mean you don't care about the LGBT community.

If you did, you'd stop lecturing us on how wrong we are about the McClurkin issue, and try to understand why we are.

If HRC hired David Duke to emcee a fundraiser, and he spent half an hour going off on black people, would I, a white person, be within my rights to tell blacks to "get over it -- it's a non-issue"?

You do not get to tell us when to be angry, or about what. You do not have the authority to tell us what is homophobic, and what is not. And it pisses the hell out of most of us when straight people treat us as if we were idiot children.

Yes, where you stand on the McClurkin issue is a litmus test for me. It tells me whether you're really listening to me, or just patronizing me as you prepare to chide me.

My 86-year-old mother gets it. Why don't you?

[totodeinhere]

98. Speaking of authority...

And it pisses the hell out of most of us when straight people treat us as if we were idiot children.

Did I say I am straight?

You are talking about who has the authority on what. I maintain that you don't have the authority to call me patronizing.

[Chovexani]

136. Sapphocrat has more authority on pretty much any topic than most

Now go on and take your creepy ass avatar with you.

[totodeinhere]

141. I don't understand.

What's wrong with a picture of Obama at the beach? Why in the name of God is that creepy? Since when did it become creepy to go to the beach? I submit that you called that pic creepy simply because you don't like Senator Obama. And it seems rather disingenuous to start an argument over an avatar of all things. I wish we could just stick to the issues.

And speaking of the issues, what do you think of Senator Clinton's refusal to support full fledged gay marriage and her support of the DOMA?

[Chovexani]

142. It's the way the picture's cropped.

It kind of resembles one of those cheesy velvet Jesus paintings you see at Wal-Mart.

At any rate, your attempts to peg me as a Hillbot are laughable--everyone here that knows me knows where I stand on these candidates. I think both of them are terrible on equal rights and will say anything to get elected. Did you ever see that Douche vs. Turd episode of South Park? That's pretty much what Clinton and Obama look like to me. I have no dog in this fight, but Clinton has one edge on Obama and that's the fact that at least I KNOW she's a triangulating disciple of Machiavelli; she doesn't pretend to be otherwise. She doesn't try to put lipstick and a cross on a pig and call it "hope". Hillary hemms and haws about equality the way every Democrat running aside from Kucinich did. I'm used to that and at this point I don't expect anything better. What I'm not used to is someone with a D after their name actively courting the homophobe vote to the point where, despite the protests of people who were going to vote for him, he puts an ex-gay preacher on stage.

This is bigger than candidates but Obama folks are too busy basking in the glow of Yon Savior to understand that, and that's why if he's the nominee my vote will not be one for him, but one against McCain. He will not get my time and money the way Kerry did.

You want to know how big a turn around that is for me? Go search DU around the time that Obama made his speech at the DNC in 04. I was one of the ones in joyful tears because I saw someone that spoke for me, on a national stage, that might well be the first person that shares my complexion in the White House. I felt--LMAO, the irony--hope that shit was maybe going to change in this godsforsaken country. I shook his hand at the Congressional Black Caucus' Legislative Conference just days after Hurricane Katrina, and the weekend before Hurricane Rita hit, thanking him for being out there and fighting for people who didn't have a voice. I loved and respected that man. When he announced he was running for president I was thrilled. I wasn't sure about his experience, and I did have respect for Clinton despite her flaws, so I was keeping a very open mind about the race.

When the McClurkin thing went down, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he just wasn't vetted properly by the staff. But his actions in response to that made me sick to my stomach. It proved to me that the hope and change rhetoric was just that--rhetoric. And the disgusting way his supporters, many of whom claim to be supportive of equal rights, have fallen over themselves to make excuses for this incident and collectively shit on our community have pushed me over the edge into abject hate. You can talk until you're blue in the face about his supposed LGBT-friendly record but when it comes with the attitude "so shut up you stupid queers, we know what's good for you, LOL what're you gonna do, vote Republican?", it shows me how you really feel about us.

Really I am not into water sports, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

[totodeinhere]

146. ...

Thanks for the long thoughtful post. Hopefully, if Obama is elected, he can change your mind with some concrete actions such as doing away with DADT and nominating gay friendly judges.

[Chovexani]

147. I hope so too

I admit, I'm probably not the nicest poster in the world, mostly because when I'm really angry I tend to turn to snark as a defense mechanism.

I really, really hope I'm wrong about this, but it's really easy to be cynical considering how all the candidates have been.

[Chovexani]

135. Sorry but you can't have it both ways

It's not just that you think McClurkin is a non-issue--which, by itself, really tells me all I need to know about you--it's the consistent disrespect and shitty attitude Obama supporters have consistently displayed towards GLBT people who have a problem with it. It happens in thread after thread after thread. GLBT DUers express outrage and pain and Obama cultists tell us to get the fuck over it, that we are being "histrionic", playing "victim", and any number of insulting things. It always turns into "those uppity fags and their faggotry!" Like clockwork. When they aren't pitting blacks against GLBT, as if those of us who are black and GLBT do not exist.

It's made me lose any respect I may have had for the candidate and his campaign. When I hear Obama and his supporters talk about hope and change, I now have exactly the same reaction I have when Pat Robertson and his ilk talk about religious freedom. And it is precisely because of his actions and the actions of his supporters--they talk a good game, but the words are empty and meaningless, y'all have made it abundantly clear that your brand of hope is not for everyone.

I was a Kucinich supporter because he seems like one of the only Democrats left with the spine--and the heart--to fight for first class citizenship for people like me. Unfortunately I couldn't vote for him because he dropped out before the AZ primary and we couldn't write people in, so I voted for Clinton. If Obama is the nominee I will hold my nose and vote for him because I am scared shitless about the Supreme Court, but I WISH (in the Cedric the Entertainer sense!) some fucking Obama kid comes to my door wanting my support or calls me for money. I fucking dare them to. Hell hath no fury like a bisexual scorned.

[More Than A Feeling]

37. These results are disturbing.

The "ex-gay" movement has no place in the Democratic party, in my opinion.

[Bluebear]

40. Welcome to our world.

I'm not surprised with the results in the least, unfortunately. We have been told by Team Obama to "get over it" before the ex-gay concerts even took place. :(

[BlackVelvet04]

39. Of course it's an issue.....

and I'm sure the GLBT community is sick of being told to get over it.

[nonconformist]

46. Absolutely is an issue. nt

[IndieLeft]

48. McClurkin is a non-issue. Why?

If you base your vote on that one theme then your rationale is unraveled by your support of the other candidates who have done practically the same thing.

Edwards said he didn't believe in gay marriage.
Clinton hasn't done anything or said much of anything about "don't ask, don't tell" since it was passed in Clinton's first term.

Obama has a track record of stating that he disagrees with McClurkin on the issue of gay lifestyle. He disagrees with Hillary's vote for war but they certainly can sit up on the stage together... and in some scenarios people want to see them on the same ticket.

Leave the McClurkin stuff alone. It's dumb to keep riding this pony into the ground.

[TankLV]

56. WTF are you still spewing?!

Don't Ask Don't Tell was NOT Cliton's in any way shape or form - it was the REPUKES only AFTER he got hell for PUSHING AN OUTRIGHT END TO GAY DISCRIMINATION IN THE MILITARY AS ONE OF HIS FIRST OFFICIAL ACTS WITHIN DAYS OF TAKING OFFICE!

Don't you fucking idiots DARE try to push that LIE. Don't you DARE!!!

[totodeinhere]

75. Yes, the Repukes opposed full gay rights in the military.

So what else is new? But the fact remains that Clinton made promises to the GLBT community that he did not keep. All he needed to do was issue an executive order to fully integrate gays into the military just like Harry Truman did when he integrated blacks into the military. But instead Clinton took the cowardly way out and capitulated to the right wing. Shame on Bill Clinton.

[LostinVA]

124. Is that an Obama on the beach avatar?

:scared:

[Chovexani]

138. I don't know what it is except creepy

I keep hoping it's just an ironic play on the whole cult accusation.

The alternative makes me want to board up my apartment and get out the zombie repellent.

[LostinVA]

140. That's what I'm hoping for, too

[NMMNG]

67. Are you gay?

Is it your life?

Then you wouldn't understand.

[Sapphocrat]

89. If it's a non-issue...

...why all this concern that we drop it? Surely, you can't believe talking about it will hurt your Great and Powerful Teflon King Obama... or maybe that is what worries you, since there's no way in hell you could actually give a fuck about my rights.

[Chovexani]

137. Well you would know from dumb, wouldn't you.

With that post full of lose and fail.

(PRO TIP: we live LIVES not lifestyles, thanks.)

[Hoof Hearted]

49. Only in a "where are all the gays going to go anyways" kind of way.

You know, in the crass, ugly, bigoted, who gives a crap, in the general election it won't matter, kind of non-issue way.

[TankLV]

51. NO FUCKING WAY - it's THE issue!!!

Obama lost me on that one alone...

[farmboy]

62. It is an issue to me and everyone who sees my I'VE BEEN MCCLURKINED BY OBAMA! t-shirt.

For those who don't understand, and plenty do, they always make a frown face and seem bewildered that Obama did what he did. Bad publicity. Bad judgement. Acts of bigotry will never just go away.

[Duncan Grant]

63. 67/67 at 10:20 p.m. PST

:puke:

[LeftyMom]

68. Yeah, but there's a significant faction here who wouldn't care if Obama ate a kitten on live TV.

I take that back- they'd praise his innovative solution to the pet overpopulation problem.

Seconding the :puke:

[NMMNG]

70. You're right

Then they'd turn around and diss Hillary because she didn't come up with the fabulous solution to the pet overpopulation problem. :eyes:

[davidinalameda]

73. puppy maybe

but since I'm a cat lover, I couldn't vote for anyone who eats kittens on live TV

:bounce:

[Duncan Grant]

77. I'm thinkin' Nobel Prize and an endorsement from Betty White.

I suppose I should be gettin' on with my gettin' over it...

[cboy4]

74. Frankly, I'm surprised the "get over it" choice #1

isn't running away with it.

At any rate, I agree. :puke:

[Duncan Grant]

78. Isn't it good to know that only half of the respondents are ignorant?

It's cold comfort but comfort none the less...

I keep saying Obama could clear this up once and for all if he'd speak or appear at a major LGBT Pride event this summer. Actions speak louder than words, oui? ;)

[cboy4]

79. Oui....But I expect the Giants to win the World Series

long before then.

And how sad is that, considering the state of our sorry ass team! x(

[Duncan Grant]

87. We LGBT folks deserve a champion, too.

(Speaking of the Giants; if I have to watch them lose just one game this year in the 8th inning - I'm gonna die.)

[cboy4]

90. LOL!!!-- I hear ya, but I'd rather them lose while I'm

relatively "warm," rather than sitting at Candlestick Park on a Monday night with 11,000 in the stands freezing my nuts off.

And a loss is almost better than having to watch this guy jump around!! :scared:

[terrya]

101. I have to say something.

I've said that I will vote for Obama if he's the nominee. I will not not vote nor will I vote for McCain or, ugh, Nader. :puke:

But thinking about the McClurkin thing and Obama's role in it...sometimes, when I say that I'll vote for Obama if he's the nominee...I feel like a traitor to the GLBT community. I know...I fucking KNOW how wrong the McClurkin thing is. I know it. And yet...here's Terry, party unity and all of that. Why do I feel like I need to apologize for voting for Obama if he's the nominee.

[LeftCoast]

80. WooHOO! This Presidential election cycle only half of DU plans on throwing us under the bus!

That's a big improvement over years past!

[NMMNG]

92. Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Or is that acid indigestion?

[LeftCoast]

94. I've got some Tums if you need'em.

:hug:

[Marrah_G]

100. This thread makes me sad.

:cry:

[Morning Dew]

93. It's an issue

for the first time since '76, I could stay home come election day.
:(

[terrya]

97. Yes, it is an issue.

I have yet to hear from Obama about how wrong this was. And I have yet to hear Obama talk to the GLBT community (which, presumably, he wants to appeal to) about this issue and the outrage we still feel about it.

Either you strongly condemn this "ex-gay" crap and announce that you will not pander to these kind of hatemongers or you don't. One or the other.

[Marrah_G]

99. This thread shows people's true colors loud and clear.

I'd like to apologize to all the GBLT Duers for having to put up with such assholish behavior by people who ought to know better.

[theHandpuppet]

102. It's real eye-opener for me, that's for sure.

I expected there would be a portion of DUers who would tell us to "Get over it!" but to find out that over half here don't give a rat's ass finally tells me where we stand.

Painful as it is to see, I finally get it.

[cooolandrew]

104. Barack will be the candidate most likely to win more seats and be able to pass bills for gblt groups

[MethuenProgressive]

105. The 88 "non-issue" voters should be ashamed of themselves.

But they won't be.

[Zodiak]

107. It's a low-priority issue for me

Because it was one appearance at a campaign rally...not a policy position. It was a poor choice.

If there was a candidate who was clearly more "pro-gay", I would see it as a stronger issue, but face it, Democrats run from GLBT issues like they are radioactive. I see no reason why Obama is so much worse because of McClurkin.

[Bluenorthwest]

114. Please explain then

The difference in your view between the use of McClurkin and the GOP's use of other Religious Right figures like Dobson. Remember, the Republicans do not tend to invite the Dobsons to speak at actual Presidential Campaign events.
I'd really like to know the thinking, if you really see a difference or are you willing to give the GOP a pass from now on when they do the religious gay baiting thing or the religious choice baiting thing? Is all of it not ok, or is it just ok for Democrats or just for Obama, or is it ok for everyone as long as it is GLBT folks are the target?
It was not just one appearance it was mulitple appearances, by not just McClurkin but a stage chock full of well known anti-gay singers and preachers. Individuals who do not represent the Gospel Community as a whole, chosen it seems just for the bashing. Actual anti-gay speech was made from the stage of your candidate's event, uncontested and without apology.
He's worse because he sought these people out, gave them a spotlight under an Obama banner, and allowed them to let lose with verbal attacks on Americans who vote 75% Democratic. This is what Republicans do. I've never in my entire life seen a Democratic candidat allow such divisive and direct bashing of any minority. We are used to being ignored by Democrats after the check clears, but we are not used to being openly bashed by Democratic surrogates as a way to attract the votes of those who hold us in contempt.

[Zodiak]

115. Obama is not my candidate

So let's get that straight. Edwards was my candidate, and Kucinich before him. I am unabashedly anti-DLC..that is where I come from.

I am also a populist, so social issues take a back seat for me to begin with. I believe that social issues are just useless crap by which no change will be made, but it serves to divide the have-nots into smaller, infighting groups.

My rationale is this...this is one appearance at one campaign event....one for which Obama has already addressed. This is not a policy position. If GLBT individuals want to base their vote on this issue alone, that is fine, but I still find it selective when there is only one more Dem nominee who has a pretty poor GLBT track record, as well...after all, her husband signed in the DOMA act, which IS a policy position. All Democratic front-runners will run away from this issue.

I do not give a pass on pukes for this, nor do I for Dems, but I do not see any substantive difference between them on this issue. Both will push the LGBT community under the bus at the first opportunity.

So yeah, I find this to be a small issue from the prism by which I view politics. With war, the rich getting richer, a police state, toture, Katrina ,etc....this issue barely registers on my radar screen.

[Sapphocrat]

151. You're an Edwards supporter, and a populist...

...yet social issues "take a back seat with (you) to begin with"?

What is Edwards' biggest issue? Poverty. While poverty comes under the umbrella of the economy, does that mean poverty is not also a social issue?

[Zodiak]

154. I do not recategorize it into a social issue, no

Of course poverty is a social issue sensu stricto, but not within the classic American frame of social/economic issues.

Civil rights, abortion, LGBT issues, free speech zones, "in God we trust" are social issues in that framework. But I do agree that many of these issues do blend with economic ones, especially the first three.

As a populist, it is my position that we fix the economic issues first, and then people will have enough time in their lives to be educated on the social issues, which will, in turn, change for the better. At least this is how it has been played out in history.

Most people do not realize that they are essentially wage slaves and share more in common with whom they hate for social reasons than the jerks making decisions for them. Populism unites all of these people while social issues are used to divide them. That does not diminish the importance of social issues, but it does emphasize an inherent majority of common peoples in our electorate which is untapped electorally because their members are divided into both parties...largely divided by social issues.

I really appreciate y'all not ripping my head off for disagreeing, by the way (nowadays I half expect it...primary season and all). It's nice to have a rational discussion from time to time. I just have a different perspective, but I can respect anyone who has their own and can rationally defend it, as well.

[Sapphocrat]

155. And I appreciate your thoughtful response.

I can't say I agree with you entirely, but I do see where you're coming from, and I agree with you more than either of us might have guessed.

Ironically (don't faint!), the economy really is my number-one issue, not just during this race, but always. In short, 1) basic survival comes first, and if you're hungry or homeless, nothing else matters; and 2) a healthy economy means more money for education (one of my other gigantic issues), which in turn begins to turn the tide against poverty, which is at the root of much (not all, but much) crime, which... well, you know how the chain of events should go, at least in theory.

Where I disagree (in part) is in cutting such a clear line between economic issues and certain specific social issues. Just on those you cite as examples, I would put abortion, free speech zones, and church-state separation ("in God we trust") further into the social-issues camp, while I view civil rights (I'll gently correct you here: LGBT rights are a civil-rights issue) and poverty more as subsets of the economic + social "superset."

From the LGBT side specifically, there are many, many ways in which a lack of marriage equality has a direct financial impact on LGBT Americans (and, let's face it, we have to work and buy food, just like everybody else), which in turns plays its part in the overall economic health of the country.

And it's not an insignificant part we play. Remember, there's a reason marketing companies have been going nuts dissecting the gay and lesbian consumer profile for the past decade or so. While it's a myth that we're all rich yuppies, it is true that on average, gay and lesbian couples tend to have a higher disposable income (most us are DINKs), and we're worth catering to when you're trying to decide how to target your marketing campaign for your new soft drink, or your new desert resort in Arizona. (You want to make a fortune in the gay and lesbian market? Concentrate on travel, both domestic and foreign.)

Last I checked, the G&L market was worth around $660 billion a year to the U.S. economy alone. Not bad for such an seemingly insignificant minority group, eh?

And we do speak with our wallets, if you just listen to us: Show us you want our business, and will treat us with the same consideration and respect as you do straight people, and we will flock to your storefront. Earn the rep of being anti-gay, and overnight, and we will stop buying your products or service -- and so will our straight loved ones. If there's one thing we as a community have learned, it's that the only guaranteed way to make "you" listen to "us" is to grab "you" by the short-and-curly... pocketbook.

So, it's worth it to the economy-first folks to pay attention to us for that reason alone -- plus, when (if) we finally get marriage equality, we also get all the same financial benefits you already take for granted, such as certain income and property tax breaks, inheritance rights, and the like, AND, perhaps MOST important of all (especially as long as no one in the U.S. is guaranteed healthcare), our partners' private health insurance benefits. I'm no econ expert (in truth, I'm one of those "uneducated" white-voters-with-no-degree upon whom many in GDP have heaped disdain over the past few days and dismissed as practically worthless), but I know that keeping people healthy has a major impact on the economy as a whole.

(Nope, there is NO guarantee of health benefits between partners even in states that offer full marriage rights {Mass., and to a lesser extent, NJ} or DP's or CU's; there are countless examples of companies telling same-sex couples: "The state may recognize you as a legal partnership, but the company that insures our employees resides in a state that doesn't recognize your status, so tough noogies.")

I could continue this long tangent endlessly -- because I've lived it, and know many LGBTs who have been through worse than I have. But I'll stop here; no doubt you understand what I'm saying: Yes, LGBT rights are a social issue, but also an economic issue -- and not just for LGBTs.

And it wouldn't bother me in the least that LGBT equality became a more pressing issue for you solely because of economics -- hell, if that's the only way I can get you to become a stronger ally for me, that's fine! I'm not an idiot, you know. :)

[Bluenorthwest]

108. A huge issue

Not just in relation to Obama but in relation to the DNC. This sort of campaign tactic has zero place in our Party. No minority should ever be spoken against at any Democratic event, under any circumstances. That should be a given. Those who did not stand up against this make themselves very clear in my book.
The religion does not mitigate the hate. The lexicon of 'hope and unity' and 'new politics' makes the wedge driving and pandering all the more insulting. I spoke out against the comments made by Don Imus, an entertainer on a radio show, but so many Democrats seem to accept the comments made by McClurkin in his role as 'minister' under the Obama banner. The double standard is revolting.
In short there was absolutely no excuse for using the Republican operative who sang to and for George W Bush at GOP Convention 2004 on live TV while good gay Democrats were out there trying to defeat George W Bush, and certainly no excuse for letting this Bush backer McClurkin actually speak against us without rebuttal and without apology from Obama. Obama should have called up gay friendly Patti LaBelle, who sang at OUR 2004 Convention and who has been raising awareness of the repercussions of homophobia for decades.
I'd also like to say that the likes of McClurkin and Caldwell can do little to harm a protected and empowered man like me. So it is not for me that I make this point at all. I make it for the sake of great people like Rev Carl Bean and his Unity Fellowship Chruch who fought this battle so well and so long, and for the minority gay communities served by his Minority Aids Project Los Angeles, since 1985. That is 27 years for those of you who think Obama is 'trying to start a dialouge'. After all this time, black women and youth are still the fastest growing HIV population. Much of that is due to DL practices and homophobia, in short due to fear.
A non issue? Not according to the grave yard.

[Political Heretic]

110. As LGBTQ activist, former campaign strategist against anti-gay legislation in my state....

...I say its a non-issue.

Obama didn't have McClurkin campaign for him because he hates gays. He had him campaign for him because he made a campaign blunder. It happens.

[Bluebear]

111. Adults apologize when they make a 'blunder', now, don't they?

[Political Heretic]

119. Sometimes, not always.

His "failure" to apologize doesn't mean he hates gays or will advance an anti-gay agenda.

Throwing baby out with the bathwater and all that.

Adults also know how to see the bigger picture when other people don't act or respond in perfect ways.

[Chovexani]

139. LMAO

A "blunder" is when you let your chain-smoking friend borrow your $200 cashmere sweater.

This was a little more than a blunder.

[tammywammy]

112. It's somewhere between issue and non-issue

I understand how some posters here are really upset with Obama over McClurkin and would not tell them to "get over it" as it is very much an issue for them.

[Bluenorthwest]

116. Thank you

What would be great is if Obama's supporters took the issue to him. If my candidate was ticking people off that is what I'd do. Unity has no exclusions, so as long as this stuff hangs in the air, the Unity messages itself should be suspect and without that message, we got hope. Hope they say is the thing with feathers.
I'd tell my candidate if my support of that candidate was putting me in the same corner as bigots. Seems like a big thing to do for a mere politician, take a stand that includes embracing prejudice and religiously based intolerance.

[IndianaJones]

113. is anyone that pays attention here surprised at the results of this poll? nt.

[Political Heretic]

120. Not at all - there are a lot of resonable folks on DU.

[IndianaJones]

121. a lot of reasonable bigots. nt.

[Bluebear]

123. You said it.

[Beausoir]

130. Not surprised at all. Obama threw the GLBT community under the bus. He has no decency.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

117. given how many gays did not vote for obama and strongly favor hillary it is an issue

for about 2/3rd of us. however since we dont count for much, i suppose it doesnt matter.

and that the truth of it. we dont count. so mcclurkin issue is a non issue.

[theboss]

125. I want you to go out on the street and ask the first 1000 people you meet who McClurkin is?

If more than 3 identify him, I will buy you a Coke.

[hulklogan]

126. And that makes it less of an issue?

If you go out on the street and ask the first 1000 people you meet who Dick Cheney is, you'd probably only get 6 out of 10 who know.

[theboss]

127. 6 out of 10 is more than 3 out of 1000

It's a non-issue in the sense that it is only an issue for people who are desperately looking for reasons to be wary of Obama.

Obama is the most openly pro-gay candidate of our lifetimes. It's simply part of his nature.

[hulklogan]

129. Praise Barack!

[Sapphocrat]

152. Have you ever seen Jay Leno do those question-on-the-street quizzes?

I saw one once (not a Leno fan here), where he was asking people to identify photos of (current) major political figures, including a number from the Bush cabinet.

After watching that appalling spectacle of American ignorance, I'd say your estimate of 60% recognition of Cheney is spot-on. Even generous.

[nonconformist]

134. Then ask them if they have ever heard of the PNAC

Just because most people haven't heard about something doesn't make it any less of an issue.

[Sapphocrat]

153. Go ask the first 1,000 you meet who Nell Campbell is...

...and if more than three identify her, I'll be amazed.

Now go to a midnight screening of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show," and ask every person in the audience; chances are, just three won't know.

See the difference? Ask 1,000 gospel-music fans who McClurkin is, and I'd bet his Q factor would be well over 90%.

It was no accident, no "blunder," that this performer was chosen for this audience, no matter how much you'd like to believe that Pastor Donnie is some obscure nobody.

He didn't pull his Oprah appearance, gold record and Grammy award out of thin air, you know.

[mondo joe]

158. I don't care who knows about him. I know about him. That's enough to affect my vote.

If you don't care about that, fine.

[Freddie Stubbs]

131. It certainly hasn't stopped him from getting more delegates than anyone else

[Chovexani]

143. Many (most?) people in this country do not give a shit about LGBTs.

As many people keep saying right here on the DU.

It's the American way. No one cares about anyone's rights but their own. No one gives a shit what's going on until it personally affects them.

No one cares that we are second class citizens because hey, they can get married and put their spouses on insurance and see them in the hospital. They don't have to worry about how open they're going to be about their families at work because they will never be fired over it. They don't have to carefully choose a vacation spot because holding hands in the wrong place can get them killed. They don't have to worry about falling in love with someone from another country and never being able to be with them here. They don't have to worry about grieving the loss of a partner and being thrown out of the home they may have shared for 20 years because the in-laws never approved of the relationship, and having zero legal recourse.

Out of sight, out of mind.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

133. It is an issue for me...

because it showed a complete lack of courage and leadership on Obama's part. You can't say one thing and do another.

Which is why Kucinich was my first choice, as the only candidate to come out and call for 100% equal civil rights for the GLB&T community.

[Stop Cornyn]

145. Along with Obama's lame health insurance plan, McClurkin is Obama's biggest flaw. I may vote for him

in the primary or maybe I won't -- I go back and forth -- but either way it will be without any enthusiasm.

Save for a few issues, there isn't really a hair's difference between the two, and so the sort of stain Obama bears from his association with Obama costs him.

[Alexander]

149. Considering most Americans don't know about him, yes it is.

Considering Obama's legislative record is far friendlier to gay rights than DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", yes it is.

Considering the only people really "concerned" about the issue are anonymous posters on message boards who claim to be gay and outraged (but who could be neither, as far as we know), yes it is.

[NorthernSpy]

150. I refuse to vote in this poll, because neither option fits what I would say...

In light of Hillary's own association with equally anti-gay religious figures, and her actually less friendly stand on DOMA, it's hard to shake the impression that this McClurkin flap was really driven by partisan motives.


That said, whether other people should "get over" things is not for me to say.