Hillary Clinton "has the only health care plan that covers every American."

[MethuenProgressive]

Hillary Clinton "has the only health care plan that covers every American."
Congressional Quarterly and the St Petersburg Times have investigated this claim, and have ruled it "True"

Obama has said he wants to cover every American, but experts say it's unlikely he will without a mandate as part of his plan. Earlier in the campaign, Obama said his plan did provide universal coverage, but we found that claim Barely True; read our ruling here.

Because Clinton does include a mandate in her plan, she is correct in saying that she is the only candidate for president with a plan that mandates health care for all Americans. We find her statement True.

[Kittycat]

1. Mandate - Forced coverage will never pass.

Good luck with that one. Tax Credits are BS and you know it.

[rodeodance]

5. The mentality has changed. Citizens are ready for health care for ALL. Your meme

may have been relevant 5 years ago. but not anymore.

[Armstead]

60. If so then why not real Universal Health Care?

Both Obama and Clinton are ducking the real need for something more basic that more of the same Health For Profit.

If neither are going to fight for that, at least Obama's removes the major political obstacle that is claimed as a reason against REAL single-payer universal health coverage.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

80. we need a government funded healthcare system

if we can borrow billions for war we should have done it for healthcare years ago.

[BlackVelvet04]

10. BULLSHIT....

Obama mandates his plan for parents. Mandates are mandates.

And tax credits aren't BS....duh..do you think those who get earned income credits think it's BS? Or those who get credits for their IRA think it's BS. Have you ever FILED taxes? Tax credits are far superior to health care deductions which have to be more than 7% of gross income.

Good grief, educate yourself.

[Kittycat]

34. Tax credits come too late (after the fact), and are subjected to those earning.

And I don't want the government telling me what I can afford, when I live in an area with high cost of living, due to the job market.

ETA: And it's so wonderful that the ignore feature is blocking the person above you :)

[BlackVelvet04]

38. And I don't want to pay for your health care because you think

you don't have to have insurance.

Tax credits aren't after the fact. You figure out your tax credit and increase your exemptions accordingly.....putting extra money in each paycheck. Seriously, you need to find out how taxes, credits, exemptions, etc work.

[CTyankee]

51. But the government does this already! You can't tell your employer "Don't take the Medicare payroll

tax out of my paycheck because I can't afford it."

Similarly, when you do go on to Medicare it will inform you that you must sign up for Medicare Part B (drs visits)and a certain amount will be deducted from your Social Security check each month (unless you have alternate coverage). If you decline to pay Part B and have no alternate coverage, you will pay a PENALTY later when you do sign up, in the form of a higher monthly fee.

If you cannot afford health care, that is what Medicaid is for. I believe HRC talks about the expansion of Medicaid to cover higher incomes levels than it currently does. So if you are truly too poor to pay for your health insurance you will go onto Medicaid.

Universal health care, even in the most generous European countries, is not free. People have to pay for it through taxes, but it is worth it because it is much less per person than what we now have.

[calmblueocean]

12. And unfortunately, no matter what she proposes, Republicans will call it "Hillarycare"

and vote against it to score points with their base. The odds of getting her plan approved by Congress are far less than Obama's, and that's what matters to me.

[PresidentObama]

15. My father hates mandates--but he told me he thought a healthcare mandates the only way.

Americans are coming around, and realizing the healthcare system is screwed.

Mandates are the only way.

[rodeodance]

2. Who ho==Great line. She Cares about ALL americans: Obama seems not to care

as he OMITS millions!

[shraby]

3. There is a big BUT there.

If people won't buy into it, the money will be taken out of their paychecks whether they can afford it or not. That's a definited drop in income for people living on the edge.

[MethuenProgressive]

11. No, not "whether they can afford it or not" - only if they *can* afford it, but *refuse* to buy it.

Right now there's a mandate (taxes) that we all pay to cover for those without insurance. Sould we pay for those who need help and can't pay? Yes! Should we pay for the deadbeat who can afford it, but refuses to pay? No!

[shraby]

73. Who decides who can afford it and doesn't have it?

Who decides who a deadbeat is? Our taxes should cover health care for ever single American in this country. Anything less is not acceptable. Close down the war(s), bring the boys home and put that toward our health care. Tax the super rich, the corporations that get tax breaks galore, close loopholes that allow them to put their money offshore, tax the oil companies on their obscene profits and we just might have the money to pay for health care.

[MethuenProgressive]

75. I agree with many of your points.

:hi:

[Nederland]

4. Presidential Plans are irrelevant

Anything that passes will be a product of Congress, not the White House.

[BlackVelvet04]

6. You're a brave soul....

thanks for the post.

Hillary's plan offers to every American the choice of the FEHBP....the plan which all federal employees can choose from. Over 14 million people have access to this plan and thus the infrastructure is in place. That's something people aren't thinking about....
you have to have the structure to put any plan into effect. Obama's would start from scratch.

[MethuenProgressive]

25. Excellent point you make re the FEHBP

Thanks for reminding us all of that.

[BlackVelvet04]

33. You're welcome.

I have more info in my journal.

[leftstreet]

7. You mean Health INSURANCE plan

Shoveling millions of dollars to health insurance companies is not "health care."

[BlackVelvet04]

13. Well, Einstein....

that's what Obama offers. Tell those who don't have any health insurance now that getting health insurance is worse than no health care plan.

[leftstreet]

18. So how is Hillary's Insurance Giveaway Plan better than Obama's?

If both candidates are pushing health in$urance over single payer, what Einstein would be dumb enough to bring up either one?

[BlackVelvet04]

24. Why is hers better?

I'll tell you. Every American will be able to choose a plan for the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program. The government oversees these plans and the insurers must meet government requirements in order to be offered. These are the best plans available at reasonable prices....prices which will be reduced as the number of insured rises.

I had FEHBP insurance for over 20 years and it is FAR superior to any other plans I've had available to me. PLUS the infrastructure for supporting millions of insured is in place and ready to go ON DAY ONE.

[leftstreet]

28. Well, I'm glad to know my wages will be garnished for such a good plan

:eyes:

[BlackVelvet04]

37. Grow up....

part of being a grown up is providing for the contingencies life.

[leftstreet]

41. Hey! Maybe we should pay for police and fire protection too

A couple other nasty little contingencies.
It's not like those services are "rights" or anything.

:eyes:

[CTyankee]

55. And you don't pay for fire and police protection now?

I don't think you can just pick and choose which taxes you will pay. It should be the same way with health insurance.

[leftstreet]

61. Health care paid out of taxes is called: ta-da! Single Payer

:thumbsup:

[CTyankee]

62. True. Also true is that if you "can't afford" health insurance how do you somehow

manage to pay taxes as well?

I like single payer too, but I think it will have to evolve by showing people that health care is a better bargain when it is done thru a government plan. People now have misgivings about single payer; they fear getting something inferior to the plan they now have. I really think we should go with a program called "Medicare for everybody" because people like Medicare. But as we start out we have to show people they won't "lose" what they now have. It's great to have the government plans compete against private health insurance (with the caveat that private companies may NOT refuse coverage or jack up prices on people with health problems as they do now). Then, when the private companies can't make any money they will have to go out of the health care business. And ta-da, we've let the "market" decide, right? That was John Edwards' idea all along. The republicans are furious because they know where this will be heading...

[we can do it]

65. Duh - What do you think comes out of your taxes(or your mommy's) now?

Get a fucking clue kids....

[leftstreet]

68. Use my taxes for Bandaids, not Bombs!

What part of Americans Want Single Payer don't you apologists understand?

Oh wait...you do understand it.

[we can do it]

72. I Like That - Band-Aids, Not Bombs

[CTyankee]

63. And it is very "saleable" to the American public!

It will be sold as the same health care plan that members of Congress get. It's hard to argue that they don't have excellent health care,that it is somehow "bad" because after all, have you heard ONE Republican come out and say they want to do away with their health care plan?

[calmblueocean]

16. This is a good point that deserves to be repeated.

No one is offering a plan that guarantees health care as a right. Health insurance will never match up to the standards of care people in the UK or Canada get under socialized medicine or single-payer. Both plans are inferior and inadequate from that perspective.

[BlackVelvet04]

20. There's nothing wrong with us coming up with a plan that is

uniquely ours. Americans are used to the health insurance system, and in and of itself there is nothing wrong with that as long as their is government oversight. The FEHBP has government oversight. The government has the bargaining power because of the numbers.

[NJSecularist]

8. Good luck getting that passed through Congress, Hillary

Can we look forward to the same midterm takeover by the Repugs that we saw in Bill's first term if you are elected, Hillary?

[BlackVelvet04]

14. Yeah, let's just not try at all and leave 49 million

Americans with no health insurance and no hope for any. I guess hope only counts if it is Obama's plan. He mandates insurance for a portion of the population as well.

[NJSecularist]

19. Obama's healthcare plan covers a large majority of the population

especially the ones who are in dire need on health insurance.

[BlackVelvet04]

26. Well, that's not everybody now, is it?

Do you want to volunteer to be the one left out?

[rodeodance]

9. Thank you. REC

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. and it is structured for transition into a single payer system at no cost to tax payers..SMART LADY

[MethuenProgressive]

22. Very well thought out proposal.

Hard to see how anyone could object to it.

[BlackVelvet04]

32. Absolutely! n/t

[HeraldSquare212]

21. She's includes a mandate, but doesn't tell people how much they will be forced to pay.

How can people make a decision about her plan without that information?

[BlackVelvet04]

29. Neither does Obama.....

it will be a percentage of income. There will be public plans as well as the FEHBP plans and Medicare will be expanded. Tax credits will help those who can't afford it as well.

[HeraldSquare212]

35. But he won't force people to pay for it.

[BlackVelvet04]

39. Parents will have to......

I guess they are just naturally more irresponsible or maybe Obama is pandering to the younger voters. Experts say if it isn't mandated it won't work.

[HeraldSquare212]

42. Oh, right - that big pool of parents who don't want health care for their children.

I forgot about that.

So my question was, what will people have to pay?

[IronLionZion]

45. Children should have health care. Adults are old enough to decide for themselves. nt

[we can do it]

66. Then What Happens When You Get Sick? You Expect Everyone Else To Pay for You?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. no Obama just heaps on an extra "fine"on the poor if they don't have it...nice plan he has there eh?

[Wizard777]

23. The republicans have already sent Hillary back to the White House with her tail between her legs.

So why wouldn't they do it again? We can't get any votes from republicasn when it comes to defending the Constitution. Recent votes on health care show that republicans don't care if children have health care. Hillary expects them to give it to everyone.Which of her many versions of health care will she actually run with? I don't think I've heard the same system from her twice.

[BlackVelvet04]

30. LIAR.....

her plan is well documented....educate yourself and quit spouting crap.

[Araxen]

27. I'd rather not be forced to pay for something I can't afford as it is.

Thanks but no thanks.

[BlackVelvet04]

So if you get hit by a bus

and get taken to the emergency room I get to pay for it? If you think you can't afford a nominal amount for insurance how will you pay for a catastrophic illness? You won't, everyone else will. I'm sure you would rather we pick up the tab for you but NO THANKS. Grow up and take some responsibility.

[Araxen]

50. You should be on the one that grows up

You shouldn't be speaking on how my money should be spent. It's bad enough it's being forcefully spent on a war that was voted in favor of by Hillary. I enjoy what little economic freedom I have and I elect to pay off my debt because unlike the government I just can't blow off paying what I owe to the credit card companies, the bank for my car loan and mortgage.

[we can do it]

67. Then Go Ahead And F@#$ing Die If You Get Sick, Don't Put It On the Rest of Us

Stop buying shit on credit if you can't afford to pay for your health.

[Rock_Garden]

31. Thanks, MP. K&R!

[democrattotheend]

36. Mandating coverage is not the same thing as providing it

Neither plan provides coverage to everyone, so neither plan is universal.

[BlackVelvet04]

40. No plan is going to give it to people without cost....

there is always cost.

[rodeodance]

47. gee--Obama is using the word Universal in his stump speeches--best tell him that is a no no!

Mandating coverage is not the same thing as providing it
Posted by democrattotheend


Neither plan provides coverage to everyone, so neither plan is universal.

[IronLionZion]

43. Who is sitting around waiting for someone to force them to go buy it?

The problem is affordability. Making it affordable makes it available to anyone. Obama mandates coverage for all children, as he should. Everyone who wants it has the opportunity to buy into one of the affordable plans. But if some adults choose not to purchase it, then it's their own problem. They shouldn't be forced to pay for insurance if they don't want it.

[MethuenProgressive]

44. If you can afford it, but refuse to buy it, why should we pay your bills?

Maybe there should be a "don't ever help me or my kids, just let us die" option? Would that make it OK?

[IronLionZion]

46. What bills exactly?

Emergencies? The patient would get the bill after their life-saving treatment. They would feel the burn from that one. They would pay full cost instead of copay.

But if they want checkups or lab tests or other procedures they will have to pay for it themselves, full cost, up front. Why in the world would the rest of us have to pay for their health care? We don't do that now! It's dishonest to say anything other than single-payer would require us to pay for it.

[Johnny__Motown]

49. They can be fined for back premiums that went unpaid. How will you pay to enforce her mandate?

They like the "15 million" number for people who will chose to not buy into Obama's health care plan.


Exactly how are you planning on enforcing the mandate if 15 million people don't want her plan? (the plans are very similar, it is reasonable to use the same number)



How much tax money will you spend to punish these people?


Hard numbers please

[CTyankee]

53. WEll, if you refuse to pay your taxes because you say you can't afford it, how

does the government punish you? Nothing is free, my friend.

[MethuenProgressive]

57. The IRS will "go after people's wages"?? That's HUGH!1!!1!!!11!!!!!

Morans!!1!!
:rofl:

[Obamanaut]

58. If a mandate is enforced, what will be the additional cost -

will there be an additional government agency, staffed by more government employees, all eligible for retirement someday with the accompanying cost. Are these numbers figured into either candidate's plan?

[ProSense]

48. True? Mandates failed in Mass. Is Hillary still plan on "going after people's wages"?

The necessary outreach will not be easy, and it will be fruitless unless health insurance is made affordable and accessible to all. Some believe that an individual mandate to buy health insurance should be part of this effort; others hold that a mandate would be paternalistic or too onerous for families at the margins of affordability. Regardless of our feelings on this issue, what is clear from the evidence is that mandates alone, without strong incentives to comply and harsh punishments for violation, will have little impact on the number of uninsured Americans.1 Indeed, as the Massachusetts experience illustrates, non-compliance with mandates is a large problem, absent harsh sanctions. There is simply no factual basis for the assertion that an individual mandate, by itself, would result in coverage for 15 million more Americans than would robust efforts to make health care more affordable and accessible.

The inaccurate claim that an individual mandate alone would reduce the ranks of the uninsured by 15 million draws attention away from the challenges we must surmount to make good medical care available to all. These challenges include adequate public subsidies, insurance market reform, outreach to people at the margins of American life, and long-term control of medical costs. Individual mandates may have a role in health care reform, but there is risk of a specious "Mission Accomplished" moment. It is a time for rolling up our sleeves and addressing the hard work required to get everyone care. The central challenge is to make health insurance affordable and accessible, and to reach out to all Americans to help them obtain coverage. Voters should insist that candidates for president address these very real issues.

link

A Message to Sen. Clinton -- Forcing People to Buy Insurance is Not Universal Healthcare

Video: Going after people's wages

[MethuenProgressive]

52. Pro spams the thread trying to "beat" the three threads-a-day rule.

Disrepectful to the DU admins and mods.

[ProSense]

54. I see you have no response to the facts in the post! n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

56. Donate, then do a search on the first dozen times you spammed that horseshit.

You've been debunked more often than a sideshow mermaid.

[rodeodance]

64. It's such a delight to see Hillary hate threads cut down. Have a good day

[JackORoses]

69. health insurance is not health care

most Hillarites do not seem to have the brain capacity to grasp this.

[eridani]

70. Bullshit. Only HR 676/1200 covers every American, that is--

--without forcing people to subsidise private insurance companies.

[MethuenProgressive]

77. Heh. Nice qualifier.

:rofl:

[Vinca]

71. One more time -

Kucinich has universal health CARE. Clinton and Obama have universal health INSURANCE. The only difference between the 2 is that Hillary is gift wrapping us for big insurance.

[eridani]

74. I want CARE, not "coverage"

"Coverage" is what all the stars of SiCKO thought they had.

[MethuenProgressive]

76. Life is not a movie, eridani.

Her plan covers all. His does not.

[eridani]

78. "Coverage" is bullshit, period.

The private entities who provide the "coverage" are the same ones that deny actual care on a regular basis. People who never get expensively sick, of course, will never know the difference between care and "coverage."

[Firespirit]

79. All I hear about is "garnishing wages" -- what about the UNEMPLOYED?

No wages to garnish, and they already have severe stresses on their budget and are probably either hitting their savings or borrowing from their available credit just to pay the bills. I speak from experience on this -- a mandate to buy health insurance would have forced me into bankruptcy.

At age 23.

Credit ruined for life.

These plans SUCK. Nationalized care is the only acceptable solution.