Clinton comes out swinging in Ohio

[bigtree]

February 14, 2008


Hillary Clinton holds up a pair of autographed boxing gloves of the world champion boxer Kelly 'The Ghost' Pavlik. (funny)


Hillary Clinton held up a pair of boxing gloves inside the General Motors assembly plant in Lordstown Thursday, making it clear that Ohio is a fight she must win.

"We need a fighter and a champion in the White House," she said, referring to area boxing hero Kelly Pavlik.

Clinton was on the first stop in a two-day swing through Ohio that will also include Dayton, Columbus and Lyndhurst.

Her message was one squarely targeted at middle-class voters. She touted proposals to take on oil companies, credit card companies and manufacturing companies that move overseas. She proposed forcing oil companies to invest in alternative energy which could spur jobs with existing manufacturers or those companies that have to face windfall profit taxes. She also said she would work to reduce high interest rates on credit cards and would fight to force health insurance companies to accept all people regardless of pre-existing conditions.

She also took several swings at her Democratic opponent Barack Obama.
In a reference to his popularity spawned in part by his popular speeches and rallies, she said: "Speeches don't fill up your tank. He makes speeches, I offer solutions."

She also complained that Obama had begun distributing a misleading mailer in Ohio. "My opponent puts out a mailer with all kinds of false claims," she said, adding that Obama doesn't have much experience in creating jobs. She also knocked him for his efforts to save jobs at a Maytag plant in his home state of Illinois. "The union at that plant supports me," she said.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/02/clinton_comes_out_swinging_in.html

[Exultant Democracy]

1. It says a lot about Americans that subtlety has flown the coup. "I'm a fighter, look Boxing gloves."

Perhaps this is a byproduct of ADD America.

[bigtree]

2. silly campaign stuff

[sloppyjoe25s]

43. "Take on Credit Card Companies" GIANT WTF?!?!?

Given that she voted for "No Credit Card Company Left Behind"...

you gotta love the fact that she just MIGHT be able to sell people on being a "Fighter for the Working Men & Women"

[fenriswolf]

59. their was an easier way to make that statment

showing up to vote on FISA would have shown what a fighter you are.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

61. she hasn't been doing her job in Senate

[JackORoses]

81. just like the other day's "I love Hispanics, look a little Mexican boy"

[hogwyld]

88. That little stunt was so craven

That my wife, who IS Mexican, absolutely wanted to :puke:. She's a bonafide citizen, and we're voting for Obama.

[hell-bent]

3. New poll numbers for Hillary.

Take a look at the nice leads Hillary has in Ohio and Pennsylvania!.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html It ain't over until the fat lady sings! GOMAMA.....

[bigtree]

4. encouraging

I like that

[Johnny__Motown]

11. Actually, it isn't over until the fat lady is done singing how dare you dismiss the fat lady so easi...

Sexism, or maybe prejudice against the obese, or maybe both

yes that must be it

you are against both women and people with over active glands

you should be ashamed






BTW, just because Hillary wins Texas and Ohio does not mean she can still win. It just means that if she loses either Texas or Ohio she defiantly loses.

[hell-bent]

57. I will cherish your words of wisdom.

But, your attempt at satire was impoverished at best. Your last two sentences are lacking any iota of sense. I think it's called "spin"! And, I was amazed that you didn't somehow interject racism into your rebuttal of my post. The Messiah would not be pleased,eh. BTW, your feeble attempt at correcting my comment about: "It ain't over until(til)the fat lady sings" is incorrect. And, here I read that Obama attracts the more intellectual voter.......

[Drunken Irishman]

17. Those poll numbers are great for Obama.

Once he trounces her in Wisconsin, since she's pretty much given up on that state, her lead in Ohio will slip even more.

God, I don't get Clinton's campaign, does she even want to win this thing?

[rug]

67. It's a 4 point spread. No trouncing at all.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. Obama was down 9 last week.

That's a swing of 13 in a week. By the time next Tuesday rolls around, he'll probably be up by 15.

[rug]

82. I'll bet you a shot of Power's you're wrong.

[emilyg]

40. Welcome to DU

[Independent-Voter]

5. Ohio elected Bush twice

They aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. HRC my pull this one out of her rear end.

[EnviroBat]

48. Exactly. We seem to want another republican in Dems clothing here.

Lord help me I live in a state of dumb-asses...

[arewenotdemo]

66. This ex-Buckeye has to agree with you. I've got more faith in Texas and

Pennsylvania to see the light than in my native Ohio.

[mod mom]

87. Surely you jest. The corrupt GOP stole Ohio under Blackwell.

[Iceburg]

6. "Speeches don't fill up your tank." TKO /nt

[Armstead]

39. Nor do trite metaphors like this one

[hiaasenrocks]

7. Yeah, she's right about Obama not having experience creating jobs.

Contrast that with Hillary's experience creating jobs when...give me a minute...hang on...I know it will come to me...let's see...she created jobs by...DAMN...I'll have to get back to you on this.

The fact is that none of the three remaining viable candidates (Obama, Clinton, McCain) have ANY experience actually creating jobs or running a company or anything of the sort. I don't believe such a thing is a requirement for office, but it's just STUPID for any of them to bring it up.

[woolldog]

8. I was thinking the same thing.

This is why she doesn't connect with the more educated voters and why people view her as a phoney.

[Sadie5]

12. HRC was good today

Watched her on CNN. I betcha HRC has more experience at anything when compared to the, I can do no wrong guy. McCain is going to follow the conservative agenda, and BO will yak about lowering taxes which seems to be all he can talk about lately. The old, "I am going to give you back more of your paycheck is getting stale right about now. BO needs to tell his speech writer to write new lines for him. This is important with the economy in the shape it is in, but BO needs to cover other pressing matters, not just the economy. I have heard this same line so many times that there is no point in listening to him anymore.

[hiaasenrocks]

20. She has a ton of experience.

But "experience" alone is not worthy of a vote.

Cheney and Rummy had a lot of experience.

[woolldog]

22. I like what one Wisonsin newpaper had to say about her "experience"

The last of Obama's serious competitors for the Democratic presidential nomination, Hillary Clinton, has put in more time in Washington, and she has the scars to prove it. As an activist first lady and more recently as the senator from New York, Clinton has fought her share of battles with "the vast right-wing conspiracy" that she so famously named. But she has too often seemed to fight for power as opposed to principle. She supported the draconian welfare reforms and the fundamentally flawed free trade deals promoted by Bill Clinton's administration, she voted in the Senate for the Patriot Act and the resolution authorizing George Bush to take the country to war with Iraq, and as a presidential candidate she has condoned an often crude and divisive campaign.

Clinton's record is longer. But it is not commendable.

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/272067

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

30. "I betcha HRC has more experience at anything when compared to the, I can do no wrong guy."

LOL Obama has been in elected official for more than a dozen years... Hillary for only 8 (unless she wants to climb on hubbys coat tails again..

[Independent-Voter]

49. 15 years as a Walmart Lawyer, and 7 years on their board

That's a hell of a resume that HRC has.

[XemaSab]

72. THAT's where her job creation experience was!

Wal-Mart! :)

[livetohike]

10. Exactly what I was thinking.....

Obama, however, worked as a community organizer trying to get displaced Steelworkers retrained in Chicago.

[hiaasenrocks]

14. "Community organizer" is not exactly a job creator or anything close to it

so I'm not sure that works either.

Plus, considering who he was organizing for, it might not be such a good idea for him to raise that subject beyond a simple mention. I'm referring to the information in this sub-thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4375028#4375127

[livetohike]

84. Are you referring to ACORN?

There were alot of people involved in Pgh. back in the early 80's (it's my hometown) when the steel industry lost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

No it isn't creating jobs.

[Larkspur]

13. She helped create jobs in India

by supporting outsourcing of good paying American jobs.

[hiaasenrocks]

16. Good point. lol

[EnviroBat]

52. Absoluetly!

right on!

[bigtree]

19. She's had experience advancing job-generating initiatives for New York, with mixed success

[hiaasenrocks]

23. "job-generating initiatives"? Perhaps.

What did she do? I'm open to new information.

[bigtree]

42. For one, passed at least 2 planks of 7-plank platform, "New Jobs for New York"

Hillary's "New Jobs for New York" platform included 7 measures to create 200,000 jobs in NY:

1. Create "technology bonds" to fund interest-free loans to improve Internet access.
2. A "Broadband Expansion Grant Initiative" to provide grants & loan guarantees to fund networks in "under-served rural areas."
3. Fund research on broadband technology in rural areas.
4. Tax credits for small businesses that created jobs in smaller communities.
5. Federal funding for "entrepreneurs who have good ideas but cannot afford lawyers and consultants to help them."
6. Funding for the Commerce Department's Cooperative Extension Service to allow it to subsidize non-agricultural technologies.
7. Create "Regional Skills Alliances" to provide training to technology workers.

. . . too bad New York State was saddled with republican leadership at the time at the state and local level

[hiaasenrocks]

47. So she's 2 for 7 on that. (edited)

Which two?

Is the 2-7 accomplishment what you meant by "mixed results" or were you referring to the substantive impact of the two that did pass?

And did she write the legislation or co-sponsor?

For the record, again, I'm open to new information. However, my post was about actually creating jobs. Legislation doesn't do that; business does. While I agree that legislation can assist in the creation of those jobs, it still doesn't actually create them. That's what I was referring to when I questioned the wisdom of any of these candidates in bringing up the issue.

[bigtree]

54. you've got a good point about the lack of experience in private enterprise

but, she's not been flat-footed where her influence can make a difference.

[hiaasenrocks]

60. I don't disagree with that. The only problem is that all

three candidates can point to various legislative measures that they claim was intended to create jobs. We can agree or disagree with their various claims, but that's the political reality here, in my opinion.

I don't think we're that far apart in our general opinion. At least it doesn't appear so.

And thanks for the information. I Googled and bookmarked the "New Jobs for New York" site and will read up.

[bigtree]

62. nah. and to be fair, I think most of the rest is political stretching

to find some significant difference between them. Not much daylight between these Senate Democrats, and, it forces these strained proclamations. Silly stuff.

[JBoy]

34. Don't be silly. She created lots of jobs when she was President in '92 to '00.

[EnviroBat]

50. Right, if anything she put a whole bunch of bakruptcy attorneys,

OUT OF WORK...

[rox63]

9. I wouldn't go posting that boxing gloves pic all over the internets

The look on her face in that photo is a bit crazed.

[bigtree]

24. It only affects partisans that way.

I think it's cute.

[OzarkDem]

64. Great photo!

also good pic of Stephanie Tubbs Jones in the background.

[H2O Man]

28. It reminds me

of Dukakis in the tank.

[bigtree]

37. please. let's not start comparing funny pics of these candidates

classless.

[H2O Man]

41. Accurate, though.

n/t

[bigtree]

44. oh, bullshit

'hope and unity'

[H2O Man]

46. "This is not

a tickling contest." -- Ricky Hatton

[bigtree]

53. This is a mere discussion board. I'm not in a contest with you.

and, derisions like that only serve to feed cynicism and divisiveness. You may have limits, but the folks you inspire to use avenues of attack like this . . .

[H2O Man]

56. Oh, I didn't mean

there was a contest between you and I. That's not what I meant. I was referring to the Clinton vs Obama contest.

I think that any time a politician attempts to use a "prop," they open themselves up, though. This is the second time that Hillary has used boxing gloves -- one red pair, and now the blue ones. I think that it might not be the best choice, especially if one doesn't want the other side to use it.

[bigtree]

58. one skewed pic is not "Dukakis in a tank"

I think it's cute. A little skewed but cute. She's just holding up some gloves, for sh**sakes.

[H2O Man]

68. If you google

Hillary and boxing gloves, you'll find numerous photos. I'm not talking about any single one, but rather the attempt to use boxing gloves as a prop.

Pavlik is an interesting fighter, and a good role model. I'm glad that he is true to his working class roots. The fight preview playing this week shows how damaged his city is from the loss of jobs. Good luck to him this weekend in the rematch. Taylor is a tough kid, too, and can't be taken for granted.

[bigtree]

73. They look fine

You're partisan glasses are probably all fogged up

[H2O Man]

76. Well

I thought Dukakis looked pretty good in that tank. Of course, these democratic glasses tend to do that!

[XemaSab]

74. .

[madrchsod]

15. her husband was responsible for the maytag plant in illinois

the fuckers moved it to mexico cause the union people in galesburg made to much money...

nice try hillary but you really should`t open your mouth about job loss in the rust belt...

[bigtree]

26. yet, she wasn't responsible for NAFTA

nor, did she support it.

[Armstead]

38. The hell she didn't

She might have wanted a few buffing around the edges, but she is full on board with the neo-liberal trade agenda of promoting global rules that encourage capital to send labor to the cheapest available sources of sweatshop labor.

[bigtree]

45. She was against NAFTA, and apparently argued with Bill

Carl Bernstein: Hillary Clinton and NAFTA

Bernstein: "Hillary Clinton’s economics, the ones she preached to her husband in the White House are much closer to John Edwards then you would think. She argued with Bill Clinton when she was First Lady, her husband, she said ‘Bill, you are doing Republican economics when you are doing NAFTA.’ She was against NAFTA. And if she would somehow come out and tell the real story of what she fought for in the White House and failed in a big argument with her husband she would end up moving much closer to those Edwards followers."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/31/carl-bernstein-says-hillary-clinton-fought-against-nafta-when-bill-implemented-it

[HeraldSquare212]

65. The Clinton Record on Trade

I saw this in another thread and thought it was relevant to the discussion here. This is from a UNITEHere international union (which is supporting Obama) memo.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4588556

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-from-supporting-union-leaders/

THE CLINTON RECORD ON TRADE

AS LATE AS SEPTEMBER 2006: Hillary Said NAFTA Was A Victory For President Clinton, Would Lead To An Economic Improvement. In 1996, on a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton “touted the president’s support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region.” In her memoir, Clinton wrote, “Senator Dole was genuinely interested in health care reform but wanted to run for President in 1996. He couldn’t hand incumbent Bill Clinton any more legislative victories, particularly after Bill’s successes on the budget, the Brady bill and NAFTA.” And according to a Newsday issues rundown in 2006, “Clinton thinks NAFTA has been a boon to the economy.”

JANUARY 2008: Bill Clinton Says “A Lot Of People Think NAFTA’s A Bigger Problem Than it Is. During an event in Las Vegas, Clinton said “She believes that NAFTA, she believes that all our trade agreements should be reviewed in the first 90 to 120 days of taking office. She would have a total moratorium on all new trade deals until we conducted a review. And one of the things that we have to examine is the point I made earlier. That is, is the trade agreement basically fair, but we just don’t enforce it. A lot of people think that NAFTA’s a bigger problem than it is. Our problem with Mexico, our trade deficit with Mexico is mostly because we buy oil from them.”

CHINA

2000: Hillary Clinton Claimed China’s Entry Into The World Trade Organization Would Be Good For American Workers Despite The Already Massive Trade Deficit With China. “I know many people, here in Western New York in particularly and Erie Country, are concerned about this vote, and I share the concerns that many of my supporters in organized labor have expressed to me, because I do think we have to make sure that we improve labor rights, we improve environmental standards in our bilateral and our multilateral trade agreements. But on balance, I’ve looked at this, I’ve studied it, I think it is in the interests of America and American workers that we provide the option for China to go into the WTO. Right now, we are trading with China. We have a huge trade deficit with China. The agreement that has been negotiated between our two countries would open their markets to us in a way that they are not yet open, and in fact, for many large manufactured products, like automobiles, we would have the first chance to really get in and compete in that marketplace. I also think it’s not just an issue of trade. I believe it’s a security consideration. I want to do everything we can to persuade China to improve its human rights record, to be sure that it doesn’t in any way interfere with its neighbors or with Taiwan. I don’t think you gain that by isolating China. I think we must work out as best we can a relationship in trade, and a very firm statement and commitment to improving human rights and try to make as much progress as possible.”

2000: Hillary Clinton Supported Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) For China, Claimed It Would Create Leverage. “Senate candidate Hillary Clinton said Thursday she supported permanent normal trade relations for China, but slammed Beijing’s restrictive birthrate policies. Clinton said she favored ‘engagement’ with China through trade as a way to ‘have whatever influence we can have’ on Beijing to change its dismal record on human rights, labor law and the environment. ‘I understand the challenges they are facing with population, minorities and the move from the countryside into the cities,’ Clinton said Thursday. ‘But I would hope that they would improve their human rights record, and that includes reproductive rights,’ she added.”

[Armstead]

75. If that were the case she'd have to renounce all of Bill's trade policies

The whole architecture of the so-called "free trade" movement has been to hamstring domestic politics in every country and make them subjugated to "market forces" regartdless of the social cost.

There is a huge difference between merely assisting international trade, and imposing a regime that foces countries to abandoned their own politics and culture in order to play in the global sandbox.

NAFTA is just one small part of that.

[Raffi Ella]

18. I saw part of it just now on MSNBC

She was GOOD.She is ready for this fight.

Woo.GO HILL GO. :kick:

[BootinUp]

21. Sounds good!

Go get 'em Hillary.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

25. Reason #1 why I cant stand Hill

She talks with one mindset and legislates with another

"Her message was one squarely targeted at middle-class voters. She touted proposals to take on oil companies, credit card companies and manufacturing companies that move overseas."

Hmmmm.

With the exception of going after oil companies (oh yea thats politically risky /sarc

She voted for that sham of a bankruptcy bill and for all the free trade agreements that are moving our manufacturing overseas... People of Ohio dont be fooled hillary is no frined of the American industiral worker...

[bigtree]

33. if they listen to you they'll be mislead on these issues

Obama Supporters Stuck on NAFTA issue?? READ!:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4576696

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

51. Maybe you should not link to a thread that debunk

your own rhetoric..

The peru deal included provisions for labor and environmental regulations IN the agreement..

[bigtree]

55. yet, BOTH voted in favor of it

that's what we're ultimately arguing, isn't it?

[BootinUp]

85. She did not vote for the final version

of the bankruptcy bill. The version she voted for was different and contained things that guaranteed Bush wouldn't sign it.

[H2O Man]

27. Boxing defines the Cosmic Reality.

I think it is worth noting that numerous references have been made to the Clinton vs Obama contest being a classic boxing match today on MSNBC.

More, it is important to keep in mind that Barack has the support of Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather, the pound-for-pound best fighter of this generation.

[bigtree]

36. heh

:thumbsup:

[rodeodance]

29. ** please chk this tread also--WI primary

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4590048

[Straight Shooter]

31. "Speeches don't fill up your tank."

I agree. Bubble-gum rhetoric is just another shiny object.

[Armstead]

35. That itself is bubble gum rhetoric

[rug]

70. Obama gives good speeches.

[Rock_Garden]

32. Keep swingin', Hillary.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

63. She always reminds me of the singer Lulu

"you make me want to shout" fame in the 1960s

[H2O Man]

69. Perhaps she will

sing "To Sir, With Love" at the convention.

[rug]

71. Or he'll sing "R-E-S-P-E-C-T".

[FlyingTiger]

77. That's a terrifying picture.

Guaranteed to be all over right-wing sites by the end of the day.

[bigtree]

78. so what?

why should I care what's on the page of a right wing site? Honestly, folks here pay way too much attention to them.

[gmudem]

79. Who is she fighting for?

Oh yeah, corporations and the DLC. Oh I forgot, she worked for the Children's Defense Fund for a few months about 30 years ago.

[aquarius dawning]

83. Me. I know without any doubt that I am better represented by HRC than BO.

There is no doubt what-so-ever at all in my mind that this is true.

[goodgd_yall]

86. Go, Hillary!

I like that "reduce high interest rates on credit cards." We need leadership in the White House to battle the credit card companies. They are out of contro.