If Obama's such a weak candidate, how did he overcome Clinton's massive lead?

[TheWraith]

A year ago Hillary Clinton was running virtually as an incumbant: the inevitable, unassailable nominee of her party, a name known by all, with 20 and 30 point leads in the polls.

Today, her organization is battered and broken, and her aides are admitting she can't win the primary without overturning the popular results.

Against the backdrop of having every advantage a politician can have short of actual incumbancy, she's effectively lost.

I think that the myth that Obama is a weak candidate is pretty well dead.

[xultar]

1. Easy, he's not Clinton.

[Bicoastal]

10. That's for sure...

...we're seeing a new, better way of not only campaigning, but winning the hearts and minds of Americans country-wide.

They'll be studying Obama '08 in PolySci classrooms for years to come...

[KittyWampus]

25. Neither is Edwards. One MIGHT look at how both candidates have and are running their campaigns

I know that's just a LITTLE sophisticated.

[FrenchieCat]

2. Because he is a better candidate.......

and a better manager.

But you know, some of us have to be twice as good as everyone else, before the brilliance is noticed.

[TexasObserver]

3. Only those inside the Clinton campaign refuse to see the truth that Obama is rolling.

His success is simple: He's a much, much better candidate than Hillary, and the voters aren't stupid. All the phony staged events by Hillary cannot make sizzle in an old cola that has long since lost its fizz.

[RiverStone]

53. And check out Obama's biggest lead yet in this....

Presidential tracking poll!

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/daily_presidential_tracking_polling_history

As of today - up by 12 points!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. That's only in states that don't count.

In the same way that Obama is untested because kicking Clinton's ass isn't a real test.

[XemaSab]

14. Ouch.

:D

[damntexdem]

22. What if he wins the presidency only in states that don't count?

McCain might accept a defeat; but would Billary accept that Obama was prez? ;-)

[MagsDem]

33. Man that cockiness is gonna make for a REAL hard fall

I think DU may explode, even, when he goes down in flames.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. thats one of the things that amuses me on two claims coming from a lot of hillary supporters

1: Hillary is ready to lead from day 1 with 35 years of experience
2: Obama is an empty suited novice with no real experience

So i always wonder how the candidate ready to lead with 35 years of experience can be loosing as badly as she is against the empty suited novice, the two claims makes no sense when combined with reality

[Big Blue Marble]

6. That is because Hillary supporters

live only in Hillaryland fully depending on Hillaryreality to make their case.

[MagsDem]

34. Loosing as badly? LOL

She's not even losing if you count the super delegates she has pledged (and yes, they DO count). She's got a double digit lead in 3 states that total almost 500 delegates. And they haven't even counted the 105 she won in FL yet.

And you do realize the media created and is poised to have a really fun time knocking him back down, don't you?

I think you better hold on to your sparklers for a bit longer before you light them. :)

[Bodhi BloodWave]

41. I will partly agree with you

If we count the super delegates then its debatable i think, some numbers I've seen has Hillary in a slight lead while other numbers show Obama with a slight lead. Personally i disregard the SD's since they can change at any time and as such is very unreliable, Going by pledged delegates Obama is in the lead currently and might increase that lead in the next few races(Florida is not going to count on deciding the nominee i think, they will be seated sure but only after the nominee is decided)

The Media will attack any democrat that is chosen, and i personally think they will have a harder time then expected knocking him down but I'm fairly sure the two of us disagree strongly there :P

As for my 'loosing as badly' comment, thats more linked to the two claims i posted above, if we look at them as facts(something i don't) then Hillary as the ready from day 1 candidate should have easily been beating Obama as the empty suit novice with little experience into the dust, yet she is behind him

[ccpup]

7. having a complacent media ready to anoint him with a halo

while standing, shovels in hand, waiting to bury Hillary certainly hasn't hurt. It'll be nice to see him get some nasty upper-cuts in the next few weeks.

[anamandujano]

8. and Repuke crossover voters to install the weaker candidate.

Our primaries should not be open to meddlers. If independents are so clueless that they can't choose a party, they don't deserve a vote until the general.

[FrenchieCat]

27. You're saying that Hillary is weak then?

Ohio Republicans pulling for Clinton to win
If she's Dems' nominee, GOP faithful think she'll unite GOP
BY HOWARD WILKINSON | HWILKINSON@ ENQUIRER.COM

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican Party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.
Her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton; and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and gives them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.
It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong; and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee.
<>
'HIGH NEGATIVES'
To hear Republicans tell it, they're rooting for Clinton.
"There is no doubt about it," said John Becker, a Clermont County Republican who represents much of southern Ohio on the Ohio Republican Party Central Committee. "There is nobody who can consolidate and energize the Republican Party like Hillary Clinton. It will get the people out and the money will flow."
Part of it is that Clinton has what pollsters call "high negatives."
A USA Today poll this month showed that as many Americans had an unfavorable view of Clinton - 49 percent - as a favorable view (48 percent). The same poll showed Barack Obama's unfavorable rating at 34 percent, and his favorable rating at 58 percent. The Feb. 8-10 poll of 1,016 adults nationwide has a margin of error of 3 percentage points.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080214/NEWS01/802140346/1056/COL02

[MagsDem]

36. Oh yes, where would Obama be without them

Too bad for dems that even if he wins the nod those people have no intention of voting for him in Nov.

[Lucinda]

9. The assist from MSM and the ability to give a good speech.

[Independent-Voter]

11. You're blaming the media!?

Who had the benefit of years of name recognition already? Please don't blame Obama that the voters simply don't think that Hillary is a credible candidate. That she blew $140 million and couldn't put together a campaign worth a damn is simply proof that she is a weak candidate.

Look, you Dems are being handed the presidency on a silver platter after 8 years of Bush. Some of you are simply blind to that fact by continuing to stump for HRC.

[Lucinda]

12. Oh please. Any idiot watching the coverage from pre-Iowa on can see what's happened.

Everyone but Obama took a big hit. They totally ignored Edwards and went out of their way to spin every breath of Hillary's campaign as racist for days and days before SC.

The media is not the Dems friend. Not even Obamas.

[doc03]

15. I got tired of hearing the Hillary bashing on AA

so I listened to Rush Limbaugh this afternoon where I found him dissing John McCain instead. There was one caller that said "For the first time in history the MSM and Conservative talk radio were both on the same side aiding the demise of the Clintons" and "Rush agreed with him". Rush did say if Hillary does get the nomination then the media would go back to supporting the Clintons against a Republican. There were also some callers suggesting the Republicans come out to vote for Obama in Texas to take Hillary out. Now if Obama is supposed to be such a great candidate why are the Republicans so worried about little old Hillary? Hmmmm?

[stillcool]

13. well, now see he really doesn't..

have a massive lead. The states Obama wins are small and do not matter, and lots of Republicans are voting for Obama because they're scared of Hillary...because she did such a bang-up job with her battles against the Right wing. I always wonder about that one..did she actually win any of her battles? She's just playing her cards close to the vest so she can win a big blow-out in Ohio and Texas. That is unless the media doesn't cover it, or Obama's cult members come out in big numbers, or Obama uses reverse racism, or young'uns that are easily brain washed get within a mile of Obama. If any of that happens she still has the super delegates so see, she isn't behind at all. I read it here every day.

[XemaSab]

16. You forgot the combined power of crack and lattes

to sway the electorate. :tinfoilhat:

[stillcool]

19. Jeez....I'll take the latte...

but can I get weed instead of the crack? Actually, I think I'll just stick to the kool-aid.

[jackson_dem]

17. msm

And the things that make him weak don't come into play in primaries but will in the general.

[jlake]

18. With the help of 24/7 MSM Cheerleading.

The same MSM that will be cheerleading for McCain in the GE & Dragging our nominee (Hillary or Obama) Through the mud.

[bluedog]

21. Bingo.the media...........

campaigns for him 24/7,,,,,,,,never questions his abilities.....they just adore this man ..wait til he runs against McCain.....they will turn on a dime........

[CreekDog]

20. He focused on states that serious candidates ignore

because they are not significant.

:shrug:

[leftynyc]

23. The same way the chimp beat Kerry

Unrelenting praise from the media. And dont forget how far ahead in the polls Kerry was 6 months before the election. Polls this far out are bullshit.

[tabasco]

26. That's a laugher!

The corporate media has done their damnedest to crown Queen Hillary.

She loses to McCain, and, even if she wins, she is a corporate tool.

A lot of Democrats on this board are in denial about their beloved Queen.

At the same time, they insult Democratic voters as gullible and pliant.

[leftynyc]

30. What shows are you watching?

I mostly watch MSNBC and they've been anti-Hillary for months now. And stop calling her beloved queen. I've tried very hard to be respectful of Senator Obama's supporters but it's those like you that make me want to retch. Please try to remember you're going to need Senator Clinton's supporters in November.

[BuyingThyme]

24. Cause he rigs all of his events!

And plants questions in the audiences!

Oh, wait. I'm thinking of Hillary.

[Occam Bandage]

28. Yeah, well, Hillary is running away with it in states that count.

[ORDem]

29. Too bad there are so few that count in her ledger. n/t

[nonconformist]

31. Republican voters crossing over.

Hang your hat on that at your own peril.

[MagsDem]

32. Talk about an easy question!

1. The media and the right wing have spent 15 yrs training you to hate all things Clinton, and you rush to obey

2. The media has told you he is the next messiah, the very second coming of Christ, and you're stupid enough to believe them.

So what we get is a completely unqualifed, non-liberal, never ran a real campaign in his life candidate. A complete media creation! Thank you CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox Noise. You did it again!

[Beausoir]

35. You nailed it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. ha.

Delusional much?

Unqualified Columbia and Harvard Law graduate who was president of the Harvard Law Review, has years of experience in the Illinois legislature (and time in elective office that exceeds hillary Clinton's), etc. Non-liberal, yet ranked as the most liberal US Senator last year. Never ran a real campaign in his life, yet has better organisation, better fundraising, and better results than Hillary Clinton despite her national name recognition advantage.

[MagsDem]

42. Yeah, Bush has a degree from Yale and Harvard...

And he sure as hell wasn't qualified. What has Obama every run? How many budgets has he balanced? Hell, he isn't qualified to be Governor of IL much less president. I think we've had plenty of the on the job trainee president to last a lifetime.

As the wonderful campaign he is running, I have news for you -- he's not running it, the media is. Name recognition? He gets hours of free advertising every night.

So, no, I'm not delusional.

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Versus Hillary? Who's done none of those things either?

You seem to forget that Bill isn't running.

[MagsDem]

48. Oh I forgot the right wing Obama talking point

She just picked out china patterns all day, right? I mean, when she wasn't busy pushing SCHIP through the white house, acting as an ambassador to this country in Africa, working on education and children's poverty issues, etc. Hey, and that 8 yrs of being a US senator we're nothing either. I mean should couldn't possibly have had any budget experience there.

And then there is Obama, who has gotten a post office named after someone.

Yeah, I see your point. Sheeple.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. And we've had a balanced budget in any of those years she's been a Senator?

No, so you don't have an argument there.

And if you want to point to accomplishments, point to hers, not her husband's. She may have had some policy input and played the role of sounding board, but to make the claim that she's responsible is disingenuous.

[woolldog]

38. trained by the media to hate the Clintons?

If we've all been trained by the media to dislike the Clintons,

(1) why was she so far ahead of everyone in the polls at the beginning?

(2) how did she beat out so many other more "qualified"--at least on paper--people (like Biden and Richardson), despite running such a poor campaign?

I would suggest to you that she's gotten where she is because of her Clinton name, not despite it.

[MagsDem]

44. Because some of us can think for ourselves

Seems to be a problem with Obama supporters. Luckily, not everyone is a sheeple.

And she deserves to be where she is... she has busted her ass for liberals for 35 yrs. Unlike St. Obama, who's biggest contribution to the nation, as far as I can tell, thus far has been sponsoring a bill to name a post office.

[woolldog]

52. So...

early in the race when HRC had double digit leads that was because people had been trained to dislike her?

If democrats have been brainwashed into disliking her because of 12 years of RW slams, wouldn't it stand to reason that democrats would have started off disliking her instead of growing to dislike her the longer the campaign wears on, as appears to be the case?

[stevietheman]

40. Absurd. My position is based on Clinton's behavior and lack of results. n/t

n/t

[MagsDem]

46. Okay, let's compare results...

Hillary's biggest contribution: Pushing SCHIP through when Bill was president. But of course there is nothing for liberals to appreciate there, now is there?

St. Obama's biggest contribution: Sponsoring a bill to name a post office.

Yeah, I can see why you love him and dislike her. Sheeple.

[JVS]

51. I can't believe you want to bog down the party with a candidate that you know the public hates!

[aquarius dawning]

39. By getting 80%-90% of the African American vote.

I'm sure they just think he's the best most qualified candidate though.

[NMMatt]

45. Just like all the Lesbians on this board...

Think HRC is the best candidate. Wait, that would be offensive for me to say that... <ducks and covers>

[aquarius dawning]

50. It's only offensive if you mean it to be which you obviously did.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I was pointing out an obvious and documented fact and presenting it as a probable answer to the proposed question. If you wish to disagree, go ahead and disagree. If you want to insult gays, I suppose you're just an ass.

[Perry Logan]

47. If Obama's not a weak candidate, why do you keep having to prove he's not a weak candidate?

[jconner27]

54. I tell ya why

Obama supporters should send thank you cards to the Corporate media, that's the only reason he still in it. Anytime the Clintons mount some form of offense against him the corporate media finds some Obama flunkie and he or she whines about how it's a personal attack or they grab Rachel Maddow to carry the Obama team water.