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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:10 PM
Original message
Obama's Rovian Campaign
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 09:13 PM by Nexus7
It was as I listened to and read about Obama attacking McCain yesterday, and ignoring Hillary, that it finally crystallized in my mind how the Obama campaign is patterned after Bush/Rove's.

In 2000, as Florida was still roiled in dispute, the Bush campaign gathered the incompetents into a cabinet, and the putative secretaries talked to the media in the manner of those who were going to imminently take office; and the campaigner Bush began speaking as if he were President-elect. In the minds of most people, aided by media toe-suckers, the election became a settled affair, with Bush President-elect and just some irksome details to be worked out. Obvious parallels to Obama attacking McCain.

But that's not all. The Rovian campaign takes a great strength of its opponent, and turns it into a liability by aggressively promoting a falsehood, that if true, would undermine that strength. Thus John Kerry, a multiply decorated war hero, who dared to look at the human suffering of the war, was said to have acquired his medals through fraud. Aided again, by the incompetent and malicious wings of the media, this created enough doubt in the more casual observers. Similarly, Hillary, and more broadly, the Clintons, were tarred as racists. Bill Clinton's term of course, was great for everybody, specifically for African-Americans, economically, socially, in every way. Bill Clinton is the anti-racist, personally, and in his public life. And therefore, a Rovian campaign attacks that very strength through malicious falsehoods. A better case can be made in fact, that the Obama campaign (starting with Oprah) brought race into the race.

But that's not all. The Bush/Rove campaign "turned" a supposed member of the opponent's campaign, and made a public spectacle out of that member sliming the opponent with the most disproportionately negative interpretations of the slightest events or supposed traits of the opponent. Aided again, of course, by the media-wing of the republican party, who gave such sliming the prime-time audiences and top billing. Thus Zell Miller,and thus Donna Brazille.

But that's not all. Without going on and on, here are some more parallels. Like Bush, Obama's appearances in religious forums are addressed to the fervently religious, specifically evangelical, voter base. They claim the support of vast, noble, and just awakened sections of the population. Honest, hard-working, just and righteous salt-of-the-earth types for Bush, and the cool kids for Obama. Cultivating an appearance of having great vision, that rises above "mere" partisan bickering, with clear, over-arching (and stupidly simple-minded actually) ideas and ideals - a new way of doing business in Washington for Bush, and a new type of politics for Obama. And so on.

Not that there's anything wrong in copying Bush. He "won" the elections (two, in fact) after all. It's just, so ugly, cynical, and as old as the hills.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is illegal to own a hedgehog
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. And let's not forget, Dude
that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for, you know, domestic... within the city... that ain't legal either.
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh please.
Clinton's campaign manager, Patti Solis Doyle, seems to agree with that assessment, having effectively vowed to run her operation much as Rove did his two successful national campaigns. "She expresses admiration for the way George W. Bush's campaign team controlled its message, and, given her druthers, would run this race no differently http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401722.html
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Do you have an actual argument, or just out-of-context stuff like this?
Any specific examples of the Clinton campaign using Rovian slimeball tactics?
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nomorewhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. how about stealing the election via MI/Fla and supers? kind of a big deal, eh?
honestly man, this is quite possibly the most inane post i've read all day
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Yep.
Left her name on the ballot knowing she would try and CHANGE THE RULES later.

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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
42. Don't forget that her call to seat the Florida delegates ...
... in the days before the Florida primary was a backdoor maneuver to get around the "no campaigning" ban, just to pick-up a few more votes and delegates.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/krkaufman/20
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. With all due respect, what a load of crap you just wrote.
Welcome to DU. I hope your work pays well.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No argument, I see
Well, for the little of mind such as yourself, as you've demonstrated, no actual arguments are necessary, huh?
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. and the horse you rode in on. n/t
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting take on things. But, one big difference is that the *
cabal had the media and bought and paid for, unlike Obama.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. They didn't actually pay for the media for the coverage
They just got it because they were the media owners' preferred winners. Just like Obama.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Please don't accuse one of our Dem front-runners of being Rove-like.
It is the ultimate insult, IMO.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Obama walks like a Rove, talks like a Rove. must be a Rove.
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R
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TalkAgain Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ok, but get yourself measured for a nice robe
Join the cult anyways...You will end up on our side.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Messianic Hitler
It SURE is ugly and cynical.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Don't feel alone. n/t
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Clinton has used those exact same tactics. Please remember that
during the early debates, Clinton's responses were seen as being looking past the primary, as if she already had that tied up.

She is currently using Obama's speaking abilities and trying to turn them into a negative.

You haven't seen Bill Clinton in his church rallies for his wife?

The Rovian tactics have been learned and learned well. By both sides.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Did Bill Clinton proclaim he (or she) was "saved"?
In his church rallies, did he claim he was saved? That the Lord plays a huge part in his life? Or did he draw upon the Lord for inspiration?
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. He and Hillary have both, on numerous occasions, talked about their faith
and how important it is in their lives.

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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Sure, but that isn't the same thing
Whether or not faith is important in a candidate's life, every one of them is going to say faith plays an important role in their lives, if they have any intention of getting elected. That is very different from saying they are "saved." That means something specific. It appeals to a certain audience. It turns off more people, who wouldn't be offended by someone saying faith plays an important role. In the Bush campaign, this stuff was code for saying he would appoint for anti-pro-choice judges, allow social works money to religious institutions, and in his second election, that he would continue the military action against Iraq. What does Obama mean by it?
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is it opposite day here?
:shrug:

'Cause I know that the Clintons have been trying to turn Obama's strengths into liabilities.

He's got terrific grassroots support and devoted volunteers? It's a cult.

He's got great support among independants? He's the more conservative candidate and/or Republicans are scared to run against Hillary.

He's cleaned her clock in most of the elections? It's all republican support in states we can't hope to win in November.

He talks about hope? Well, hope doesn't pay the electric bill.

They're not attacking him on issues, they're attacking him on his strong support. Rovian. :(
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. More like Inside-Out Day, Upside-Down Day, Through the Looking Glass Day, yeah !
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. And please don't forget that Bill Clinton distorting Obama's Iraq war position...
... was another attempt to attack Obama on a key differentiator between him and Hillary.

As for the OP, another grand Rove tactic is to accuse your opponent of your own crimes and misdeeds, so that the accusations sound petulant when justly leveled at the truly offending campaign.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. Alert! Alert! A Fact Demon walks among us!!!!! Alert! Alert! He thinks!!! Let us burn him now!!!!
nt
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Can I have a last cigarette?
Too bad I don't smoke!

Sorry, bad pun.
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I Vote In Pittsburgh Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. You should be banned
This is clearly a pro-republican flame bait thread.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Make false allegations much?
Check my posting history before you smear me.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. yep, op spouting the same talking points as RW radio pundits today
that rovian thing of sticking to a script and calling up down is still goin on, but not from the Obama Campaign

Damned pathetic stuff. Must be hail Mary pass time.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Make a specific argument
You wanna argue anything specific? Or you just wannnabe a Obama-dittohead?

Calling Bill Clinton racist is not calling up, down?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. LOL Obama ditto head?
ya just made my case for me, fool.
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. OK, still no argument
Hey, at least you're amusing yourself.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm sorry, but is there something that you said that was based on anything
other than what's coming out of your ass?

On the other hand.....

Ohio Republicans pulling for Clinton to win per Ohio Press

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican Party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.
Her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton; and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and gives them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.
It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong; and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee.

'HIGH NEGATIVES'
To hear Republicans tell it, they're rooting for Clinton.
"There is no doubt about it," said John Becker, a Clermont County Republican who represents much of southern Ohio on the Ohio Republican Party Central Committee. "There is nobody who can consolidate and energize the Republican Party like Hillary Clinton. It will get the people out and the money will flow."
Part of it is that Clinton has what pollsters call "high negatives."
A USA Today poll this month showed that as many Americans had an unfavorable view of Clinton - 49 percent - as a favorable view (48 percent). The same poll showed Barack Obama's unfavorable rating at 34 percent, and his favorable rating at 58 percent. The Feb. 8-10 poll of 1,016 adults nationwide has a margin of error of 3 percentage points.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080214/NEWS01/802140346/1056/COL02


------------------------

HILLARY CLINTON CAVORTING AT A FUNDRAISER
GIVEN IN HER HONOR BY PAPA MURDOCK


















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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Frenchie, didn't Murdoch dump Hillary for Obama?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Nope.....
Unless he's simply edging his bet.....
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Make an argument, don't copy and paste irrelevant nonsense
I didn't post anything that isn't based upon fact. Show me one fact I posted that isn't true.

In return, you posted something about some republicans in Ohio preferring Hillary as an opponent. Which proves nothing, unless you consider republican opinion as gospel.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Who died and gave you the corner market on how to post on this thread.....
:rofl:
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Nexus7 Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Still nothing to say, huh?
I couldn't give a rat's ass how or what someone posts in this thread. I'm just looking for some good a counter-arguments that might make me think. Something that you evidently don't have the faintest about.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Oh lord, here we go again.
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