McAuliffe in '05 said ANY Dem should've won '04 by 10%. TeamClinton v TeamBush

[blm]

in 2004 at the height of Bush and Rove's power, before Iraq had their first election, before SS, Schiavo, Katrina.

Who wins based on what we now know about how competent a machine Clintons actually have with their targeted state strategy? And by how much?

[Sadie4629]

1. Well,

obviously Bush "won" because he is the President. Don't understand why you're asking about this now.

[blm]

4. If it was TeamClinton facing Bush then would Hillary win by 10% as McAuliffe claimed?

.

[liberal N proud]

5. Bu$h stole the election just as his regime did 2000

That is why he is president
It is important now because it underlines that they can do it again.

[blm]

8. There's a big difference this time. The DNC under Dean rebuilding party infrastructure

in states left to collapse for years, assures a more secure and fairer election process.

DNC under McAuliffe never bothered, even after the blatant theft in 2000.

[dchill]

14. Exactly.

There's no reasonable way to discuss political minutiae when the 800-pound gorilla (that the media choose not to see) sits in on the discussion. Kerry lost because Republicans own the media and the voting machine companies. Not to mention all branches of the federal "government."

Edit to add: Oh, and McAuliffe is obviously such an ass that it's critical not to believe that what he says has any relationship with reality.

[Independent-Voter]

2. The the Dems put up Kerry as the nominee (nice, competent guy - horrible candidate)

speaks volumes about their political savvy. The GOP, if nothing else, has their shit together when it comes to getting 50%+1 most of the time.

[blm]

3. Kerry won. RNC stole it for Bush and the DNC sat on their hands for 4yrs and LET THEM.

The DNC run by Terry McAuliffe refused to secure the election process after 2000s theft.

But you didn't answer the question. Who would have won in 2004 between Team Clinton and Team Bush?

PS: Kerry WON all his matchups against Bush decisively, how did the DNC's targeted state strategy work out next to the RNC's tactics? How did the left media do up against the RW message machine?

[unpossibles]

6. I agree

although it was perhaps closer than it should have been.

Between controlling the message (the media), disenfranchising voters, purging voters (again), and vote flipping, we the American people were had.

[blm]

7. In a democracy there should be no possibility that a 5% win can be stolen.

It shouldn't have been possible for ANY Dem to get Kerry's numbers considering the years of protection Bush was getting from the media, and that most of the biggest name Dems were supporting Bush and PUBLICLY DEFENDING him on the two biggest issues of the campaign - his decisions on terrorism and Iraq war, including most NOTABLY the last Democratic president who spent his 3 week book tour DEFENDING Bush on those matters.

The DNC was a sham organizationally. The left media was still so microscopic in size it had no effectiveness on the debate as the RW machine did on a DAILY BASIS.

Kerry won BECAUSE of Kerry's own strong performances when he was UNFILTERED by the press and their lies.

Kerry just never had a BACKUP team in the DNC and left media the way Bush had with the RNC and the RW media machine.

He won anyway. RNC stole it...again.

So the two biggest failures of the campaign, the DNC and the left media, set about targeting Kerry for all the blame. Just as they did to Gore when HE won and THEY failed.

[Independent-Voter]

9. It shouldn't have even been close, period. Kerry's campaign was almost as bad as hillary's has been

[blm]

10. Baloney - the DNC and the non-existent left media failed on a dailty basis - Kerry didn't

Bush failed. RNC stole it for him.

And the last Dem president spent 3 weeks supporting Bush and defending his decisions in almost every interview for his book tour.

NO Democrat had a DNC party infrastructure ABLE to get their votes ounted in 2000 or 2004.

And you have it so wrong on the theft capability - They had it set up to win no matter what the spread. Stealing 10 million votes would be no different than stealing 5 million votes when you have a completely ineffective Dem party machine letting every tactic go uncountered for years.

[Independent-Voter]

11. I love to believe the Dems didn't just fuck up the 2004 election, but there's no

credible evidence that 10-15 million votes were stolen. I'll grant Ohio was a clusterfuck, but those idiots couldn't find their asses with 2 hands and map.

[blm]

12. 5 million Kerry votes were purged, suppressed, or stolen.

Yes the DNC sat on their hands for 2000, 2002 and let it all get worse by 2004.

How long do you think Hillary2008 has been running? WHO was in place at the DNC to make sure?

[Independent-Voter]

13. Again, you're not preaching to the choir now. Where are your links to the investigations

proving your assertions?

[blm]

15. RFk Jrs Rolling Stone article in June2005. Laid it out with the data.

.

[AtomicKitten]

16. Obama is winning with Dean's 50-state strategy

... and that is the best, most searing repudiation of ClintonCo's moldy, incompetent 50+1 percent strategy.

[blm]

17. Yep - that DNC strategy since 1996 left party infrastructure at its absolute weakest point by 2004

Clinton wouldn't even be in this race right now if Blame had been properly assessed back in 2000 and 2004. Their team was great in getting all focus of blame onto Gore then Kerry. Completely distracting Dem faithful from the real problems that existed.

Which is why they targeted heavily anyone who saw the REALITY - like Gore, Kerry and Dean, especially when he took over and had to set about correcting the problems and rebuilding those collapsed party infrastructures state by state.