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I'm sick of Hillary supporters crying sexism...

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Obamaniac Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:43 AM
Original message
I'm sick of Hillary supporters crying sexism...
She's not losing because she is a woman. It's hard to make an argument that a black man named Barack Hussein Obama has some sort of cultural advantage over a woman. Especially when that woman is former First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton. Hillary is losing because her campaign is unfocused and was mismanaged.

Plain. And. Simple.

She seemed to offer no better rationale for her candidacy than "i'm Hillary Clinton, of course i'm going to win." She ran a ridiculous incumbant style campaign for an electorate that is clamoring for change. By doing this, she seems like the status quo candidate when everybody seems to want anything but.

That's why she is losing.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is fighting one hell of a good campaign
unfortunately it's against both Obama AND the MSM --while Obama has been given not only a free ride, but a free pony ride.

How will he do when the MSM turns against him?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree. I hope she doesn't change a thing.
NGU.


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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree. For Obama's sake, I hope she changes nothing.
as for Obama being given a pass? in what universe do some people live?

The OP is correct. her inevitability campaign, her $100 million pre-campaign warchest was promoted as the reason no one else could come close, ergo they shouldn't even try. I cannot tell you how insulting, demoralizing and angering that position was.

She has done this to herself.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Shhhhhhhhh...
:evilgrin:

NGU.


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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. i am not so sure they will. They are afraid they will be called racist.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. Yes, Obama's race baiting is obvious to people familiar with the Truth..
and is a sad day in Obama's campaign of HOPE and Clean Politics~
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Henry Cisneros: just endorsed Hillary-and an Obamacamper just threw out "race-baiting" and ran.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Here is the thread:
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. Actually RD
there was more ignorant rubbish about experience from the people who throw out "Cultist" "Homophobe" "Sexist" and "Racist" as reasoned arguments against Obama
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. self delete
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 10:47 AM by Nederland
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Actually, she's running one hell of an inept campaign
She could be the first woman President and she completely ceded the change terrain to her opponent and ran as an inevitable quasi-incumbent.

She counted on a Feb. 5 knockout and had no organization in place for the 10 contests that followed.

She ignored small states and red states, letting Obama make places like Idaho (net gain of 16 delegats) more valuable than New Jersey (net gaing of 12 delegates for Clinton).

She built no ground game in the caucus states. Where she has won caucus states, her strategic overemphasis on the established base let Obama run up the score in rural counties, meaning he has fought her to a draw in terms of delegates or even beat her as happened in Nevada.

Her big-money fundraising model was blown out of the water in January by Obama, forcing her to write a check for herself.

Etc., etc.

What we have here is an able candidate who has done next-to-nothing to build on her name recognition and her inherent strengths with women, Latinos and older voters in very blue states. If she were running "one hell of a good campaign," she wouldn't be losing.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Then please, share with us all the mistakes that Obama's campaign
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 11:08 AM by NCevilDUer
has made that the MSM is not telling us about.

That's just silly.

The proof is in the pudding - she ignores the red states and SURPRISE she loses the red states. She pours millions into flashy event appearances and SURPRISE is losing to the guy that is out there shaking hands.

Free ride? How about, he's running a competant campaign. He has not had to shake up his staff, disavow statements by supporters, explain to his backers where their money went.

The three most competant campaigns have been Obama, McCain and Huckabee - and I only include Huckabee because he's gotten so far with so little financial backing. None of them have made any big mistakes. But Hillary? Trying her end run in FL and MI; the wholly unnecessary casino stations debacle when she thought she was going to lose those caucuses (if they'd have said nothing, NV would have been a TREMENDOUS success for her team - her own campaign poisoned it for her). It's been one obvious mis-step after another. Lets not forget that the race card was FIRST played by Bill when he disparaged the coming Obama win in SC because of the large black electorate.

This is a "hell of a good campaign"?

EDIT: People running a "hell of a good campaign" do NOT replace their campaign managers.
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. no free ride, just not as much negative news to report, because he keeps winning!
The MSM are reporting on the disarray in the Clinton campaign (firings, hirings, changing messages - "experience", "day one", "solutions", attempts to pigeon-hole Obama as just the latest in a string of black candidates, etc.). They're reporting how elections have turned out, and the MSM explains why in their opinion the winner won and the loser lost. When one candidate wins 2/3rds of the elections, the coverage can indeed seem to favor that candidate, but if Obama and Clinton had their election results exactly reversed, then the MSM would be reporting on how Obama's campaign has failed to win so many elections, and how Clinton's campaign had won so many.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. She is not fighting a good campaign, and they know that
They didnt really contest the smaller states, and they got hammered for it. That wasnt a smart strategy at all.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. Sorry you're wrong.
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 05:15 PM by woolldog
She's run a terrible campaign and has a history of running campaigns poorly.

--The MSM has nothing to do with her overspending.

--The MSM has nothing to do with the fundraising strategy she chose (big donors)

--The MSM has nothing to do with how many times she's changed the message of her candidacy.

--The MSM has nothing to do with her picking (and sticking to) incompetent advisers, strategists like Penn, and an inexperienced, incompetent campaign manager.

--The MSM has nothing to do with her not looking/planning ahead to post-SuperTuesday states

--The MSM has nothing to do with her not having the foresight to organize in caucus states.

--The MSM has nothing to do with her not being able to reign in some of the dumb things her surrogates have said (Bill Clinton, Bob Kerry, for example)

Sorry but you can't blame that on the media. She's run a poor campaign

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/patti-solis-doyle

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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. No kidding.
And may I add:

-- The MSM has nothing to do with her (and her surrogates') petulant attitude toward Democrats across America who showed up in record numbers with unprecendented enthusiam, but chose not to vote for her.

If I hear Lanny Davis make fun of Idaho, South Carolina, and Virginia one more time... does he honestly think he's helping? Nothing infuriates me more about her campaign than listening to all of them tell Democrats that "YOU DON'T COUNT."

Since Obama is going to win Ohio, I guess I now look forward to being just another Democrat who doesn't count! :-)
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #56
72. Lanny Davis = WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!!!
How can even show his face in public?!

His shilling is shameful. Why do they even put him on the air? He's not a politico of any standing. He's the Clinton's favorite friend, a shill who does nothing but shill. No one respects his opinion on any topic, and yet, there he is, day after day, lying, lying, lying.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. If sexism/racism pervaded voting trends in this year's primary season, wouldn't
John Edwards, a white male, be the frontrunner? Or Chris Dodd, for that matter?

Sen. Clinton is still very much in the race and may even win, but she might also lose, and if she does, it won't be a matter of her being "victimized" by sex and gender.

Obama inspires when he speaks and connects with voters more than she does. He didn't win the Missouri primary, for example, because he's male. He won because he inspired more voters' support than she did.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Do you know of something specific the OP is referring to or is this just an attach on Clinton?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hi, rodeodance. No, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm suggesting that
if a majority of voters voted on sexist or racist grounds, the two front runners would not be, respectively, a female and an Afro-American.

There's no Strom Thurmond result on the very modern ballot.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. thanks, I had understood your comments, I was asking if you knew of something
specific--so far, to me--it seems to be a broad based attach--.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. I love specifics and predictions in politics, but this year has made a total
fool of me on both counts.

Right now I do see that history is at work with the electorate. It appears we'll have the first woman or the first Afro-American in the Oval Office, and either outcome is deliriously superior to John McLame.

I'm not a one-issue voter. If I were, though, Supreme Court nominees would be my one issue, I think. And either Sen. Clinton or Sen. Obama would be ok on that count.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I have no problem with either one ---(in the end)--and yes History is in the making. Best to you.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Even if sexism doesn't "pervade" the primary season, it could certainly
be a significant enough factor to give Obama the winning edge. Judging by DU, anyway, Democrats are much less likely to put down or ridicule a candidate in racist terms than they are in sexist terms.

And with a race as close as this one, we wouldn't need very many Democratic misogynists to turn the tide of the election.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. pnwmom, I love DU and respect your opinion on this, but we're a teensy
tiny slither of the Democratic primary electorate.

Hillary Clinton didn't lose the Virginia and Missouri and Idaho contests because she's female.

She lost because there's no over-arc in theme to her campaign and because she's too invested in her husband's political chums.

She's far stronger a candidate on her own two feet and she ought to sack the entire lot of those guys and put some fresh, innovative blood in before it's too late.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. I don't know how to determine how much of Obama's success is due to
biased media coverage against Hillary and for Obama, coverage that often has a misogynistic slant. Yes, we're a tiny slither of the electorate -- and the majority is probably more sexist than DU.

By the way, I'm saying this as a person who is still bi-candidate --I just want this to be over!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. If Senator Clinton wins Ohio and Texas, the rationale for her candidacy
is strengthened. The current polling says that may happen, although much can take place between now and March 4th.

If the surge for Obama in recent contests continues and he takes Wisconsin and one or both of the larger states on March 4th, he's likely the nominee.

I can understand your wish that it was over, but I like the idea of a split convention in which delegates have to actually do some soul work instead of just rubberstamp a frontrunner. Lincoln was not a first-ballot winner, but he wound up getting the nomination and did ok.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. No candidate has won an election since '62 without taking 2 swing states of OH, PEN and FL
The party is not paying attention to the fact that she has won the big races and FL, no matter if they refuse to seat the FL delegates. The point is that she won in FL by a landslide and got 300,000 more votes than McCain.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. while I agree she is losing ground for a wide variety of reasons, I also see a LOT of sexism
in anti-Hillary messages. Not necessarily or just here, but in general. I don't think sexism is her undoing, per se, but I am awfully sick of seenig the sexist crap against her, just like I am sick of the religious/xenophobic crap about Obama.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. You are so deluded you think men in this society have no advantages over women?
That was you with the "iron my shirts!" sign, wasn't it?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. What brought this on?--Why are you saying this? now/today?
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. While I agree that she is not losing because of sexism...
I am amazed at how much sexist language and prejudice go UNNOTICED in our culture.
I am an Obama supporter, because I feel he is the best candidate. Period.
However, as a woman, I am dismayed at how entrenched sexism is in our country and
around the world. It's a sad commentary on our progress as a species, that gender STILL
such an issue. Like many areas of thought, I think religion has done a lot to perpetuate this
problem. Archaic religious beliefs are one of few last sacred cows that are not okay to
criticize. :-(
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fine - Then Stop It With the Gender-Based Attacks
And you'll hear the end of it.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. I haven't heard anyone claiming
any ism except the Obama supporters.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. All I see in the OP is an attach on Clinton--Broad based-WHY
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Just another excuse for one of Them to whine about Clinton
For me, I'm getting sick and tired of having to put the O-Cult on Ignore.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Hit and run Obama cry baby!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. OP has not defended his attack on Clinton supporters except to say he is sick ot it. OP
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 11:18 AM by rodeodance
mentions no specific even though i have asked twice now. JUst hit and run
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. The word is "attack" not "attach".
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 11:20 AM by NCevilDUer
Once is a typo, twice is carelessness, but four times is "learn to spell". Maybe you aren't being answered because someone thinks you're an illiterate moron who won't understand anyway.

EDIT - Sorry if that came off harsh. I have little patience for people who are careless about their own language.

As an answer, I'd bet the OP was referring to the numerous threads about the Erica Jong article, claiming that Hillary is a victim of pervasive sexism. Since you've commented in those threads, I assume you know the ones I mean.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Fixed. thanks for the heads up. I am not being answered because it was a hit and run
ATTACK!! ---typical.



The word is "attack" not "attach".
Posted by NCevilDUer


Once is a typo, twice is carelessness, but four times is "learn to spell". Maybe you aren't being answered because someone thinks you're an illiterate moron who won't understand anyway.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. I won't defend the 'hit & run' except to note that he is a low-count
poster and may not be up on the etiquitte - he should have stuck around to defend his post.

Cheers.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. We can agree on that.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
20. You're saying they should just ignore it when it occurs?
Or are saying that none of the Hillary-haters are guilty of sexism?

And that it's okay for other Democrats to call her a witch, or a bitch, or to make fun of her "cackle," her "thick ankles," her voice, her pantsuits, etc.?

People who oppose HRC because they disagree with her record or positions, I have no trouble with. But the people who take the Hillary-hate to a personal level by ridiculing her in sexist terms should be called on, because they insult ALL women when they do that.

By the way, she's not losing yet. She and Obama are virtually tied in terms of delegates -- but if we had "winner take all," as the Republicans do, then HRC would be far ahead, because her wins have come mostly in the large states.

Texas and Ohio should help sort this out, but we could get all the way to the convention before we can call one of them the winner.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
26. Only the obama folks are saying this...just like obama folks
jumped on me and called me a racist because I said obama played the race card and michelle obama as well...

"If Bill defends her, he's a pimp. If he doesn't, he's a creep. If Chelsea campaigns, it's cynical. If Obama trots out his girls, he's a family man.

If Michelle attacks Hillary, it's news. If Hillary attacks Michelle -- well she can't because that would be racist." true words by erica jong

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
30. Well...from a poster named "Obamamaniac"....LOOK, buster...
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 11:19 AM by Triana
..NO ONE said she was "losing because she's a woman". (EXCEPT YOU). Nice NEGATIVE definition there.

BUT I FOR ONE AM SICK OF THE DAMNED NASTY TREATMENT SHE GETS HERE ON DU AND IN THE LAMESTREAM MEDIA -- BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN. Whether she's winning or not.

DO YOU go around stabbing people - then complain because they're bleeding? DO YOU help the lamestream media and the right-wingnuts run a candidate of YOUR OWN PARTY into the sewer with sexist nastiness and negative definitions, then denigrate her because she's losing? You DO - and that's exactly what you ARE doing here.

Her campaign and her policies and record has LOTS of faults. I don't dispute that and many others don't either. And she may lose because of them - but guess what?! THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE! But you're trying to MAKE that the issue. And it isn't.

THE ISSUE is the damned ABUSE she takes from the media and DU - yep - BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN. She may not be losing BECAUSE of that to a great degree but it certainly doesn't HELP her, does it?

Much of the garbage I've seen posted here on DU in regards to Hillary or the Clintons is WORSE than I've seen ANY WHERE.

Whether she's losing or not or whatever the reasons behind it are, the TREATMENT she's received here and in the media has BEEN DESPICABLE.

AND THAT - BUCKO - IS THE PROBLEM. NOT that "she's losing because she's a woman" - but she IS getting verbally GANG-RAPED BY HER OWN PARTY - AND the lamestream media because she's a woman - and THAT is the problem. And YOU are part of it.

NICE distraction tactic from the REAL ISSUE though. Pffft!

The ISSUE is the abuse. NOT the win/lose.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. thanks well said--but seems OP did a Hillary-hate-post--then ran!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Of course....
...I'm not surprised.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. Sexist cmments came from many Obamafolks when Hilliary supports had a running
thread the other day while we were listening to a live speech from Hillary.

They infected the thread with sexist comments.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
40. we all are BUT...
The honest truth is that some (not all, but some) of the attacks on HRC are sexist or use sexist phrasing. Likewise, some (not all, but some) of the attacks on Obama are racist or use racist phrasing.

In truth, of course, there are valid reasons for opposing either one of them, neither is perfect but some (again, not all by any means) of their supporters do use the cry of sexism/racism to evade reasonable questioning. Purely on personal observation (flawed and incomplete as it is), I see Hillary supporters doing it more often.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
41. You don't get it. Your 2nd sentence proves that.

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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Join the club. nt
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Freida5 Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
47. Obama's supporters are bringing both race and sexism into this contest.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. It makes him an unattractive person and candidate
It speaks volumes about his character that he uses these tools in such a shallow and destructive way for his own personal gain.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm sick of both sides playing the victim at every turn.
Or I should say, their supporters taking on the victimhood mantle for the candidates.

There IS some sexism towards Hillary. Too much of it.

There IS some racism towards Obama. Too much of it.

But both sides have thrown the charge out there at every chance and cheapened both, so when the real thing arises we run into attitudes like yours, where people are sick of it and end up ignoring a real, and vitally important, issue. I wish both sides would think twice about lobbing the charge out there as much as they do and focus on the real instances of it, which I'm sure would be sadly all to easy to find.
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LordJFT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
50. and the people who cry sexism never seem to be able to explain
why Hillary was once up 30% nationally. Did people not know she was a woman at first?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
52. That's what I've been trying to say all along.
She's run on a campaign of "inevitability" and has a very strong entitlement attitude that she's "entitled" to the presidency, and that really turns people off.

Your last paragraph explains it all. And I'm also getting really tired of being called a "self-hating misogynist" because I'm not a supporter. I would love to see a woman in the White House before I die, no question. But not just any woman, not just a woman because she's a woman. Are blacks who don't support Obama self-hating racists? I think not. Yes, there are, indeed, plenty of sexists who are against Hillary just for being a woman, and yes, there's certainly been misogyny in this race. But a lot of the opposition is for just the reasons you state, not because she's a woman.

I also find her increasingly petulant attitude and negative smear tactics against Obama, some of them serious distortions, to be especially disturbing. It's as if she's angry that she has competition and that people would dare to vote for anyone besides herself. Well, sorry, but this IS still a democracy. Which means other candidates have the right to run and people have the right to vote for whoever they want. She is NOT, in any way, entitled to the presidency and running on inevitability and entitlement, especially for an entrenched Washington insider, is not going to cut it.
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Obamaniac Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thank you liberalhistorian
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 07:43 PM by Obamaniac
I think the petulant remark you made was right on target as well. For Hillary, whenever something goes against her, she never accepts responsibility for it, she tries to find someone to blame or a conspiracy to pin it on.

The Clintons have long been against the 50-state strategy, Obama embraced it. So why does it surprise them that Obama would do so well in these small red states? The Clintons never organized well enough in caucuses, alienating and dismissing the the activists within the party, Obama asked for their help. Why does it surprise people that Obama is doing well in the caucuses? The Clintons played the race card and tried to turn Obama into the "fringe black candidate." So why does it surprise people that Obama would do so well among blacks and let them help him win in the south?

The Clintons never planned for beyond Super Tuesday, Obama did. Why does it surprise people that he swept every state after Super Tuesday?

You see? Arrogance was their undoing. Hubris.

Everything that has happened to the Clintons has been self-inflicted. Their strategy, as I mentioned in my OP, was always to create this "aura of invincibility" around themselves, much like Bush did in 1999-2000. They were always about convincing people that there was no way that they could lose. It was done to intimidate others against challenging them. Those who were running for President, were running for second place. They've always disliked Obama because Obama was running to win. He challenged the very premise of her candidacy. Now that this facade has crumbled all around them, their true colors come to light. You see the true mettle of someone when the chips are down and things go wrong, not when everything is going well. The Clintons have not shown themselves well here. You see just how selfish the Clintons really are. They seem to have this attitude of 'if they can't have it, no one can.'

They don't care about us, it's always about them. We have a once in a lifetime chance to change the entire dynamics of politics in America. We can do so many good things. And all the Clintons can think about is themselves and how this will serve their purposes. It's about satisfying their personal ambition.

I have long suspected that the Clintons were too overly impressed with the Bushes. I think what they wanted to create a counter-point to the Bushes within the Democratic party. Sure their policies are different, but their politics are the same. People are sick and tired of the fifty-fifty divide of the Bush-Clinton-Bush years (1988-2008). They even have their own little Karl Rove wanna-be with Mark Penn. The Clintons have lost their touch with the public. They don't understand that the public is offended by everything Bush stands for. They want change. Real change. They don't simply want to replace an R with a D, but keep the status quo in place. They want to destroy the status quo all together.

The Clintons gave Obama an opening. Check that, they gave Obama an opening with a huge red bow tied around it.

He took it. Now he's going to win.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. You are back finally--from this am. Still not defending your comments about sexism I see.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
54. SEXISM....... n/t
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. Supporter Here...Never Cried Sexism.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. Just ignore it.
Usually when someone starts shouting about sexism, racism, partisanship, etc., in these contexts it means they really have nothing of substance to say and they're trying to shut down debate by shaming someone into silence.

The PC crowd is famous for this.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
60. Bwahahahahaha! Straight from the mouth of a MAN. That makes this post a NON-STARTER for me.
:eyes:
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Hill_YesWeWill Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
61. Well, you know what, there is actually sexism out there
the other day I was lobbying a friend of mine for Obama, and I asked them if they liked Hillary and, well I won't say what they said, it's not important, and I'm not going to spread negativity, but he basically said he own't vote for a woman!

And, I was a little shocked, because I knew there were people out there that feel that way, just like I know there are racists out there, but the difference is, I don't know Anybody who would admit to being racist, but this person had no problem telling me they wouldn't vote for a woman,

I'm not voting for Clinton, but I do like the fact that she is a woman. It would be a big change, but for some reason it just doesn't seem like as monumental a change as Obama would be.

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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
62. Are you listening to CNN now discussing racism and sexism?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
63. Ah yes, the arrogance of hilaryland..
<snips>

For the many people in and around Washington who obsess over the latest machinations in Hillaryland, the firing of Solis Doyle—and she was fired, several insiders confirm—is a big deal, but for reasons somewhat different from what the media coverage has suggested. Her title of “campaign manager” implies a loftier role than the one she actually played. She is the furthest thing from a Rove-like strategic genius (Mark Penn inhabits that role for Hillary), so her leaving doesn’t signify an impending change of strategy, as some reports seem to assume. Rather, Solis Doyle, who began as Clinton’s personal scheduler in 1991 (and who, as it happens, coined the term “Hillaryland”) was Clinton’s alter ego and was installed in the job specifically for that reason. Her performance in Clinton’s past races and especially in this one reflects all the good and the bad that the alter-ego designation carries. I’ve always felt that the most revealing thing about Solis Doyle is her oft-repeated line: “When I’m speaking, Hillary is speaking.” It is revealing both because it is true and because it conveys—and even flaunts—an arrogance that I think is the key to understanding all that has gone wrong for the Clinton campaign.

Such arrogance led directly to the idea that Clinton could simply project an air of inevitability and be assured her party’s nomination. If she wins—as she very well might—it will be in spite of her original approach. As one former Clinton staffer put it to me last spring: “There was an assumption that if you were a major donor and wanted to be an ambassador, go to state dinners with the queen—unless you were an outright fool, you were going to go with Hillary, whether you liked her or not. The attitude was ‘Where else are they going to go?’”



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4568468
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
64. I'm sick of Obama supporters period
:rofl: Whatever, you act like the primaries are over because he cleared Potomac primaries, big friggin deal.
Still ripping up the Clinton's even after the "big" lead your candidate supposedly has??? What are you afraid of?
political strategists along with political analysts are not giving Obama the lead--right now, he doesn't even qualify as front-runner.:crazy:

IF, by chance, your candidate get the nomination; many voters still will not vote for him, democrats, independents, or republicans. That's why Obama will loose. Boy, you are a arrogant bunch.:rofl:
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. Waaahhhh??? Didn't you grow up liking Mommy?
Boo hoo hoo.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
66. I'm sick of sexists like you who deny the BLATANT sexism the media directs at her
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. So... can a woman be "sexist," i.e. make sweeping disparraging attributions to men? -nt
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
67. Clinton supporters appear to have 3 emotional states in my view:
Righteous indignation, Resentment-fueled anger, and outright rage
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. 'Emotional states'? Well, it must be our time of the month! You are sexist.
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NMMatt Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Haha... I've been called worse by better people
If it had to do with a time of the month, it wouldn't be all the time, all month long. I'm just saying, the always angry thing gets old.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #69
76. Shame on you LulaMay!

Proverbs



Mandarin- 3 common men are better than 1 wise man
Cantonese- if you do not study when you are young, you will feed sad when you are older because you have lost time.
Korean- When you do something , you should always be cautious about it.
Thai- Just, as a long distance proves a good horse, time proves a good person.
Romanian- If you don't have what you like you should like what you have.
Samoan- The way to family authority is through loyal and faithful
Spanish- A bird in the hand is worth a hundred flying
Swahili- Love is blind
Urdu (Pakistan) It is better to have a wise enemy than a foolish friend
American- A penny saved is a penny earned
Albania- A friend in need is a friend indeed
Amhario- Regardless of whether there is such thing as heaven as hell it is preferable to good deeds.
Treat other by how you would like to be treated
Bulgarian- The one who doesn't work should not eat
Dutch- One who give a lot, receives a lot
Greek- How you make you bed is how you sleep
Italian- One who finds a friend, finds a treasure
Navajo- walk in harmony within the universe by being aware of who you are
Persian- If you are wise, you think before you act
Philipino- He who does not look back to his roots will not reach his destination
Portuguese- It's better late than never
Roman- Quechua- A strong stomach, makes a happy heart

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
73. Stop acting like sexist misogynists, stop lying about the woman--and we'll stop.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
74. It's not hard at all to make an argument that a white woman is losing to a black man.
Especially when the man has been utterly coddled and massaged by the media and the woman has been demonized into a caricature. I can't stand Hillary Clinton and this is utterly obvious to me. If it's not utterly obvious to you than you're probably a male chauvinist. There simple aren't as many self-avowed racists in America as there are self-avowed sexists. Even racist whites want to think they're not racist. I'd say a great number of men in America don't even believe sexism is a real concept.

The reality is that many people are perfectly happy to have a Black commander in chief, provided he's part of the cultural elite (MLK would not be accepted as president, not even today.) If a woman is feminine, she will be considered weak and irrational. If a woman is presidential, she'll be considered unnatural and castrating.




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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
75. Yes, and the argument that women aren't progressing politics is untrue, with Nancy as speaker of the
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 08:39 AM by cooolandrew
.. house. Barack is offering a ray of sunshine after 7 years of virtual darkness. I feel America is more ready to reach for the light than more negative politics.

star wars " Use the force luke move away from the darkside"
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