Obama supporter threatens primary challenges to those Superdelegates who fail to support Obama.

[rinsd]

A black supporter of Hillary, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, has given an interview in which he sheds light on some pretty interesting efforts by Obama supporter Jesse Jackson, Jr., to privately persuade him to rethink his support of Clinton:

In an interview, Cleaver offered a glimpse of private conversations.

He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?

"I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded.

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_supporter_jesse_jackson_1.php

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1713596,00.html

[jenmito]

1. If Obama won trheir district, they SHOULD support him! And Kerry said HE'D go with the will of the

people. Why are only Obama supporters saying that?

[rinsd]

2. Tell John Kerry and Ted Kennedy.

[jenmito]

6. Check my edit.

[Pirate Smile]

23. If their constituents were unhappy, they could mount a primary challenge to Kerry and Kennedy.

I believe that is what has the potential switchers worried.

I read an article yesterday (I googled but couldn't find it and I can't remember which of the dozens of sites I check daily had a link to it in the first place) stating that one of the reasons some of the black lawmakers (it was focused on the Atlanta area) were worried was because their constituents strongly disagreed with them and had voted 3-1 the other way. They mentioned that there is a Mayoral Primary and only one of the many strong candidates running were going to win that primary. The "losers" of the Mayoral Primary (politicians, of course) were going to be looking for another seat to run for and those House seats held by Congressmen who were out-of-step with the views of their constituencies were primed for a Primary challenge.

If people want to Primary challenge Kerry or Kennedy for not representing the views of their constituencies, they would certainly be able to do that. Obviously some of those Georgia Congressman actually think they could lose their job over it.

It happened to Lieberman in Connecticut by Lamont and we all cheered.

The earlier article I read made no mention of Jesse Jackson Jr. but it sounds like he certainly is aware of this dynamic going on.

I, frankly, wish Jackson would have just stayed out of it but that doesn't change what is going on on the ground in some of these primarily African-American districts.

[rinsd]

15. Because the will of the people is not clear yet.

As evidenced By Obama's support from Superdelegates in states he has lost handily to Hillary, Superdelegates back whomever they choose.

That is the way the system was designed.

But don't worry there is no way that the Superdelegate overrides a clear delegate leader(50+).

What becomes chaotic is if we see a small delegate lead (and I mean real small like 10 or less) or even a small delegate lead for one and a popular vote.

[islandmkl]

3. threat?...looks like everyday politics from here...

getting 'un-elected' is a risk every elected official faces...why else would they like to keep as much of the electorate as possible un-involved?

[rinsd]

5. Sorry just using what passes for logic with Obams supporters here.

Ya know when lunch with Chelsea was cast as some sort of bribe.

[islandmkl]

7. it was the dessert that went over the line

[rinsd]

20. !!

:spray:

[jenmito]

9. Are you saying Bill Clinton hasn't made phone calls strongly trying to persuade superdelegates to

support Hillary against the will of their voters?

[Hepburn]

13. Bill Clinton....

...twisting arms to get support for Hillary. You have to be kidding, right?

:sarcasm:

[jenmito]

24. Of course not!

:hi:

[Hepburn]

33. Heya, Jen....

....good to see you! :hi:

[jenmito]

55. Hey, Hepburn...

same here! :hi:

[rinsd]

16. You keep saying that when Kerry & Ted are out there stumping for Obama as we speak

Double standard.

[jenmito]

26. Stumping and twisting arms are two very different things.

[rinsd]

42. I was refering to your reference of will of the voters.

MA has spoken yet Kerry and Kennedy continue to stump for Obama.

And that's fine.

So why can't Hillary supers continue to support her even if their district may not have?

We're not talking about overturning results from pledged delegate counts, we're talking right now while the election is still in progress.

[jenmito]

54. Maybe you misunderstood what JJ Jr. said:

"He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate?"

[rinsd]

61. Perhaps you missed what JJ Jr said

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future

Notice the word support vs vote at the convention.

[Captain Hilts]

29. Are you saying that Obama hasn't made phone calls strongly trying to persuade SDs to...

support Obama against the will of their voters?

[jenmito]

56. He sure doesn't have the power Bill Clinton does to "persuade" them!

[Captain Hilts]

4. We really cannot permit a House of Lords to declare a winner, but we also can't...

permit Fla and Mich to be disenfranchised.

And the caucus system needs to be rethought in the way it discourages the elderly and people with young children from participatin. Not to mention women who are very likely to vote, but don't want to spend hours arguing with men or college students about their vote.

[UALRBSofL]

11. I have a question, who thought SD was a good idea?

I mean, I have seen people talking about it on CNN but they never really explained the reasons for it. They weren't clear.

[rinsd]

19. The party feared another McGovern and changed the rules in the early 80's

[Captain Hilts]

27. Read Ruth Marcus's column in the Washington Post about the history of the way...

Dems choose presidents. VERY interesting.

[ieoeja]

28. McGovern won only one state, but got the nomination.

Democratic primaries were winner-take-all prior to 1972. Following the convention fiasco in 1968, we switched to proportional representation.

McGovern was the only candidate in 1972 to take advantage of this by running in all primaries so he could up a few delegates here and there. All the other candidates continued the old strategy of only running in a few delegate rich states (sound familiar?).

Even though McGovern only won one state, he still entered the convention with far more delegates than anyone else. So the Democrats nominated a candidate nobody wanted.

Rather than force everyone else through the expense of running a national campaign during the primaries, the DNC came up with the super-delegate idea. Their purpose is to vote for a candidate the voters actually want.

In the next election Jimmy Carter confounded them all by doing the same damn thing as McGovern. Except that Carter won enough delegates to nullify any votes cast by the super-delegates. Every viable candidate since then has run nationally making the super-delegates superfluous. Even Hillary, while not campaigning everywhere, has at least been on the ticket everywhere.

[rinsd]

18. The supers are not gonna override a clear delegate winner (Say 50+)

What would cause problems would be a small delegate lead(10 or less) or a small delegate lead while slightly losing the popular vote.

Then we have some serious problems.

[Captain Hilts]

25. I agree. nt

[LisaM]

36. I didn't even get a chance to speak at my caucus

It was noisy and crowded and chaotic, and the person running it had 1) no control over the group; 2) couldn't talk loud enough for anyone to hear her; 3) didn't understand how delegates were allocated and couldn't explain it; 4) didn't sort the people by group so that we could discuss and choose a spokesperson; 5) wasted about half an hour on resolutions that no one wanted to listen to (and that we couldn't hear her read); 6) didn't tally up the switched votes so that we could see if Hillary got an additional delegate; and 7) allowed people ostensibly speaking for Obama to shout out that Hillary was hateful.

It was an awful experience and I left feeling railroaded and unheard. Moreover, it was held at 1:00 on a Saturday, which is really favorable to college students, not so much to people who need to work Saturdays at various jobs, including retail, restaurant, etc.

[Rock_Garden]

8. It took courage for Cleaver to speak out about this.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

yes it did and good on him!

[Rock_Garden]

47. I've always loved Emanuel Cleaver.

He was mayor of KC from 1991 to 1999, the first AA mayor for them. He's much beloved in KC, highly respected.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Pesky democracy.

Why won't it just die?

[DJ13]

12. He doesnt have to threaten

If Hillary is the nominee she wont have the coatails to help the Democrats keep existing seats in borderline districts or gain new seats against a revitalized GOP eager to take another Clinton on.

Obama proved back in the 2006 elections how valuable he is to Democratic office holders or office seekers in districts across the country.

Hillary was MIA.

[LisaM]

14. I'm still not clear why the super delegates owe anything to independent and Republican

crossover voters.

It's a very strange situation. The Dems in our caucus included a lot of people who were the regulars, the ones who donate to the party and work tirelessly for all Democratic candidates year after year. They are the ones who attend the platform conventions, go to the district meetings, and work really hard. I would say that these voters edged slightly towards Hillary, possibly even a little bit more.

Then our caucus ranks were swelled by a lot of young people (we have a number of large apartments in our district), college students, and people whom I've never seen at previous caucuses or conventions. They were excited by Obama's campaign and voted overwhelmingly for him, but I think that for a number of them, their actual connection with the Democratic party is tenuous at best. This group probably had a lot of Independents, people who've not voted Democratic in the past and may possibly never do so in the future, not to mention a smattering of Republicans.


Include with this people who have consistently voted Democratic but don't go to conventions or work on the nuts and bolts issues of the platforms, who I think edged slightly towards Obama.

Now, say you are a super delegate. Chances are, you identify most with the first group and are a party regular. But now you're being pressured to vote differently from how you would LIKE to vote. I don't like this pressure. Let them vote how they want.

[LostinVA]

22. Great post -- I was talking about something very similar the other day

[islandmkl]

32. Let me see if I have this right...you wrote:

"Then our caucus ranks were swelled by a lot of young people (we have a number of large apartments in our district), college students, and people whom I've never seen at previous caucuses or conventions. They were excited by Obama's campaign and voted overwhelmingly for him, but I think that for a number of them, their actual connection with the Democratic party is tenuous at best. This group probably had a lot of Independents, people who've not voted Democratic in the past and may possibly never do so in the future, not to mention a smattering of Republicans."

Welcome Back to the REAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY! It's about time we got some new blood...sorry they don't all seem to agree with the way the party has been run for the past 20 years or so...sorry so many of them turn out...sorry they haven't been around long enough to 'pay their dues' and collect whatever b.s. spoils the party has to offer...sorry they might actually help us CHANGE THE PARTY and CHANGE THE COUNTRY!!

I applaud your activism...quit acting like someone is stealing the Party from 'True Democrats'...true Democrats are finally showing up, regardless of age, prior affiliation, dedication...ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE!

[LisaM]

48. You're completely misinterpreting me.

I would be extremely excited if this election gave us a strong, healthy, member-filled, dues-paying Democratic party with an exciting progressive message, though I don't see that happening, because I have heard too many people saying that if Obama doesn't win, they won't vote at all, or will vote for McCain (or heard anectodal evidence of people who seem to have long lists of relatives who will vote for Obama but never for Clinton). Forgive me if I don't see these people as being fully committed to the Democratic party.

But my POINT was, you are asking people who have been designated as super delegates not to vote their own hearts. They were given this status BECAUSE of loyalty and affiliation and hard work. You seem to be very dismissive of their ability to reach a decision and vote their heart and mind based on what they know or believe to be true.

[Pirate Smile]

35. They wouldn't and they wouldn't have a potential problem of being ousted in a Democratic

Primary.

The superdelegates who COULD have problems are the ones whose districts had DEMOCRATS voting for the other candidate by a huge margin.

They are the ones who could get ousted in a Democratic Primary challenge.

[Renew Deal]

17. He's making a fair point

But there's no good way to say it and I don't think it needs to be said. But if you support someone other than the person that got 80% of the vote in your district, you might have a problem.

[LostinVA]

21. Strongarming Superdelegates now, eh?

Sounds like dirty tricks to me!

(How was my impression???)

[Cameron27]

68. Sounds like extortion to me,

vote for Barack or we'll make sure you lose your Congressional seat to someone who does.

[BeyondGeography]

30. I like the sound of that

You want a war? We'll give you a war.

[elixir]

31. Obama contributes the most to superdelegates campaigns, courting their vote

Obama: $695,000
Clinton: $200,000

[ProSense]

37. Obama contributed more than three times as much as Hillary to get Democrats elected? Wow! n/t

[elixir]

43. "Courting their vote"... just helping you out since you didn't get it the first time.

[islandmkl]

38. so...it isn't the contributing, it's the amount that has you bothered?

...give the Clintons time, they just got their $5 million back.

[elixir]

44. It's the pathetic pandering to get to the WH. Oh, you mean St. Obama doesn't play dirty?

[Occam Bandage]

60. And what do you call the $200,000 Hillary has spent in the same way?

[Occam Bandage]

40. So, Obama tries the hardest to get Democrats elected. Gotcha.

[elixir]

46. "To court their vote" ... put your glasses on.

[Occam Bandage]

59. And Hillary just assumes she's entitled to their votes, I see.

[BenDavid]

34. Well, well! Seems like race is now rearing its ugly head via the

obama campaign. As I said before, voting for obama because he is black and you are black is as racist as a white voting for a white candidate. Both take racism to a new level and both are stupid.

And for MOST obama people here at DU to in some way say because we support HRC is racist makes me laugh at the stupidity, but it makes me sad knowing this is the kind of crap you would not expect in the democratic party.

Looks like the democratic party after this is over will again have to purge its ranks just as it did back in the 60's when the bigots and racists in the party switched over to the republican party, and felt right at home....

[Occam Bandage]

39. If their constituents want them to support Barack Obama--to the point where they might

prefer a change of guard during the next primary season--then they should probably listen to their voters. I'm not really sure why you're bitching about democracy, other than that it isn't going your way.

[rinsd]

45. Threats from elements within the party structure equals democracy?

[ProSense]

49. Voters do this all the time: for supporting the war, torture, spying or anything undemocratic. n/t

[Clyde Barrow]

51. Don't forget...

Please remember to do this shortly.

[rinsd]

66. Hey lampchop

[Clyde Barrow]

71. lambchop?

Not sure what the hell you're talking about, but it sounds tasty.

[Occam Bandage]

58. Those "elements" are other representatives who are equally fearful of their constituents.

That's a good thing.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. This super delegate shit needs to go!

I have a feeling our convention is going to be a mess.

Michagan and Flordia .... and now this crap.

[ProSense]

50. Hillary and the

superdelegates

Obama is leading even if you include MI and FL

[ronnykmarshall]

52. What does that have to do with what I said?

[rinsd]

67. It ProNonsense.....3 thread a day rule has her pulling out her hair for attention

[ronnykmarshall]

73. Oh dear.

Poor thing. :rofl:

[saracat]

53. So St. Obama's Campaign resorts to political blackmail? OOh.

I guess he is just the political hack I always thought he was.

[Political Heretic]

57. What can I say? Politics is a blood sport.

:shrug:

Wake me up when Obama wants super delegates even if he doesn't win the majority of the pledged delegates. Then I'll get angry.

[HeraldSquare212]

62. Threatening them with democracy...

[Vinca]

63. What is so wrong with Jesse Jackson Jr. trying to convince a

colleague to vote for Obama? Am I missing something? It's not like he took the guy out for a meal. Oh . . . wait . . . that was Chelsea and the 21 year old superdelegate. Excuse me.:rofl:

[jackson_dem]

70. Using the race card is wrong, well to Democrats

[DemVet]

64. Ha ha...I see extortion runs in the Jackson family.

n/t

[elixir]

65. Repulsive, disgusting, slimey, two faced...oh, do I sound like an Obamite?

[jackson_dem]

69. Obama is now the "black candidate" so he can use the race card against black Clinton SD's

YES WE CAN (hypocritically use the race card to win)!

[anamandujano]

72. It's disheartening that Jesse is isolating blacks like this. He is asking

for solidarity by race. How is that going to help anything?

For openers, Obama is going to govern like a white guy (he'll keep the military industrial complex booming), and pretty much continue business as usual (extremely solid support from lobbyists), while characterizing all as "change."

I though Jesse had a bigger picture of things. I honestly thought he was smarter.