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Heeeeerrrre's NAFTA!!!

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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:21 PM
Original message
Heeeeerrrre's NAFTA!!!
From NBC's Mark Murray and NBC/NJ's Carrie Dann

With the Clinton-Obama contest moving to Wisconsin (February 19) and then to Ohio (March 4), it was inevitable that NAFTA would start becoming a much bigger issue.

Many economists have viewed the North American Free Trade Agreement -- enacted during Bill Clinton's presidency -- as an overall plus for the US economy. But especially after the nation's manufacturing job losses, that five-letter trade accord has become a four-letter word in Democratic politics, particularly in the industrial Midwest.

That reality has forced Hillary Clinton to distance herself from one of the her husband's signature achievements. "Look, NAFTA did not do what many had hoped," she said at a debate in November. "NAFTA was a mistake to the extent that it did not deliver on what we had hoped it would."

In a debate a month later, Clinton called for the trade agreement to be changed. "I want to be a president who focuses on smart, pro-American trade. I will review every trade agreement. I'm going to ask for revisions that I think will actually benefit our country, particularly our workers, our exporters... And NAFTA will be part of that review, to try to reform and improve it."

But in a press conference today, Obama tried to link Clinton to her husband's NAFTA. "We are not standing on the brink of recession because of forces beyond our control. This was not an inevitable part of the business cycle," he said. "It was a failure of leadership in Washington -- a Washington where George Bush hands out billions of tax cuts to the wealthiest few year after year after year. A Washington where politicians tout NAFTA as a success when they’re in the White House and then call it a mistake when they’re on the campaign trail."

Yet as the Politico's Ben Smith has noted, beyond her husband's obvious support for the trade agreement, it's actually unclear where Hillary Clinton actually stood on it in the 1990s. But that hasn't stopped the Obama campaign from distributing mailings in Ohio like this one: "Hillary Clinton believed NAFTA was 'a boon' to our economy."

However, as Newsday and the Clinton campaign have pointed out, Clinton never said that. The actual language came from Newsday, which in 2006 put Clinton's position on trade this way: "Clinton thinks NAFTA has been a boon to the economy, but voted against the Central American-Dominican Republic Free Trade Agreement, saying it would drive jobs offshore."

Yesterday while campaigning in Wisconsin, Bill Clinton defended his wife on the issue. "Now, you can attack me on that if you want to. But she didn't have anything to do with that. She wasn't in the Senate when NAFTA was adopted."

But that then raises this question: If Hillary Clinton takes credit for the good things that happened under her husband's watch -- like the economy -- then aren't the things that weren't so good also fair game?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/15/668610.aspx

***

Thank you, Bill Clinton.
You killed the Albatross.
Now Hillary gets to wear it around her neck.

Let's see how they like it in Ohio.
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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's only fair
Those that favour her for the BILL Clinton years will be counterbalanced by those that dislike her for the BILL Clinton years.
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fair or not
It will likely be attributed to her by some. Perception can be reality, sometimes.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wheeere's the more important letters? WTO
NAFTA is just a symptom.

We'll really be making progress when the whole neoliberal (ultra conservative) "free trade" principle of removing all restraints on market forces is the subject of debate.

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Araxen Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yup
She can't have her cake and it eat it too.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Do you know free trade/NAFTA
Is an issue progressives are split on. That said, going into Ohio and Penn it will be an issue if you are Bill Clinton but not Hillary Clinton.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Hillary has screwed herself by being inevitably tied to Bill
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 02:32 PM by JackORoses
She wants all the benefits that come with that,
but none of the costs.

Sorry, Hillary, you sewed the wind while standing by your man on NAFTA.
Now you will reap the Whirlwind!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. The Democratic Party is split on NAFTA, not "Progressives".
Conservative "pro-Business" Democrats (DLC) STILL favor "Free Trade" and deregulated Capitalism.
Hillary and Obama are conservative Free Trade Democrats.
Conservative Democrats, like Hillary, have been borrowing the label "Progressive" to falsely appeal to the Left. Her economic policies are FAR from "Progressive".


Progressive Pro-LABOR Democrats (PDA) are near unanimous in their condemnation of "Free Trade", Corporate deregulation, and For Profit HelathCare.
Dennis Kucinich is a Progressive Pro-LABOR Democrat.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. There are news sites that have been around much longer than Politico, yet it gets it's name dropped
in the mainstream. Don't trust Politico, there are better sources.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. With her main claim to experience being Bill's Presidency, its too late now...
....for her to try and distance herself from the (many) bad policies that her husband signed into law.

Gotta take the bad with the good.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. You take the good, You take the bad, You take them both and there you have the facts of life,
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 02:35 PM by JackORoses
The facts of life!

;)
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. It is only fair. She must share the blame.
She has had plenty of opportunities in the past to distance herself from NAFTA. If she didn't agree with it at the time, she should've spoken out. Instead, she wanted to reserve her opinion to see how it was going to play out. That makes her complicit. It's the same as the Wal-Mart board of directors and labor unions; if you find yourself in the position to speak out against something you disagree with...do it. Otherwise, don't be offended when people look back and assume that you agreed.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. As long as Bill Clinton is actively campaigning for his wife
and as long as she doesn't distance herself strongly from historical issues like NAFTA, this will continue to be a problem for her, I think.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's amusing Hillary only claims a part of the Clinton legacy.
Better deduct NAFTA from the 35 years "experience."
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Araxen Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Hey, it doesn't count!
like all those states!!!
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting. Obama has been touted as more liberal on trade then HRC>
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. He isn't. He's more pro-business on trade
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. ohioans know what NAFTA did, they just need to be reminded of who to thank.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. ..and who will take free trade to a new level - Obama.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. are you one of those idiot clairvoyants?
You don't do anything right in the Present, but by golly, you sure can predict the future.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. NAFTA was a mistake?
There was no worker protections, no environmental protections, etc. It didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out this would hurt U.S. workers.

With NAFTA, the bankruptcy bill, and the IRAQ War Resolution, just how many mistakes is one person permitted before they are deemed unfit to run this country?

People say they are impressed with how Clinton knows all the small details. Well knowing the small details certainly hasn't helped her "see the big picture" and make smart decisions.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. the experience of bad decisions.
and she's stumping on this 'change' thing? like she is a newbie to this game with a buncho fresh ideas?

just shows how ineffective she was when she Did have the power to implement some changes, but chose not to or to sit by quietly while these changes were being made that ended up hurting a lot of people.

Like her talk on energy - she sounded just like Bush - like this is suddenly an issue no one thought of before and she's going to make things right - this time.

empty wordmiester.



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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yeppers, just can't wait to watch her lie about it in the next debate. Gonna go buy popcorn now
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. cheap words from the Clintons. K&R.
NAFTA will be great!

for whom?

for big business, but let's sell it as a positive for the little people.

--
scan to years later, jobs gone, all that rot.

NAFTA could have been great!

but it sucks.

and big business bank accounts are stuffed fine full because of it, while the jobs are gone, and all that rot.

too bad. We made such a horrible mistake. It wasn't Me, Hillary says, it was my dumb husband.
whatchagonna DO about it NOW, huh?



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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. What happened in the past is done. The concern is what to do NOW -- and
my concern is what EACH of the candidates plans to DO with/about NAFTA.

We know it's fucked. We gotta fix or dump it. What are their plans?
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Actually I think that what happens in the past does matter
it shows what kind of decisions are made when hindsight is not an option. I'm certainly not willing to give her a free pass on IWR just because it happened in 2002.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I don't mean go give anybody a free pass on anything - but what are they
going to do about it NOW to rectify the wrong. Not only regarding NAFTA, but other issues as well.






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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Here's a good read.
http://blog.noslaves.com/hillary-and-obama-on-trade

<snip>
Hillary and Obama on Trade
February 9th, 2008 · 2 Comments

While the choices for President slim down to next to none, one might evaluate positions instead of joining the various cheer leading camps. Who, overall has the best trade, economic positions to stop this global train wreck?

Firstly any group name calling someone protectionist because they acknowledge the obviously massive ~5.6% GDP trade deficit, is obviously not basing their economics on anything remotely resembling reality. The reason I link to this Pro Obama group is because they want more bad trade agreements. They assessed Obama as more of a corporate free trader than Hillary.
<snip>
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. How can you get any more Free Trade than NAFTA?
Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 03:45 PM by JackORoses
Of course, Hillary says it's bad now, just like with Iraq.

But unfortunately, when it counted, she was on the wrong side of things.

She does one thing then says another later for political reasons.
This is extremely funny coming from the lady who is accusing Obama of being 'All Talk'.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. In other words
you didn't read it.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. HAS SHE DENOUNCED THE DLC? HER PICTURE STILL APPEARS ON THEIR HOME PAGE.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. No. Hillary is still the Darling of the DLC,
and NAFTA, Free Trade, and Deregulation is STILL their credo.





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone



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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-15-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Oh you mean her campaign rhetoric differs from the organization she leads + her husband's
policy? Hmmh that sounds a little suspicious.
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