Reardon: Media slapping women back into their place. Democrats silent.

[pnwmom]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-reardon/silence-is-assent-what-_b_86827.html

Who could have predicted how much the first presidential race in the 21st Century would damage women's progress? When Betty Friedan and I taught classes together in the mid 1990s, she'd moved beyond The Feminine Mystique to what she called "the second stage," a time when men and women would reconcile their differences so all might benefit.

Were she alive today, she'd be shocked and furious at the deplorable way in which Hillary Clinton's campaign is being used by the media as an excuse to slap women back into what my very much "steamed" 83-year-old mother-in-law, Connie, described yesterday as "our supposed place." Were Betty around now, she'd be shouting before even entering my car, asking me why my generation wasn't doing more. Why we're allowing this to happen?

Part of the problem is that Hillary is running against a very popular Barack Obama. To stand up against media demeaning of his opponent takes a level of sportsmanship by his supporters we're willing to teach our children in soccer and baseball but apparently unwilling to expect of ourselves. "I'm for Barack Obama, so I must be OK with despicable attacks on Hillary" is how too many people think. These, no doubt, are the same people who will expect a rush to Barack's side by Hillary supporters should he win the nomination. They'll be saying, "Put it behind us and let's move on. Get over it."

SNIP

Each rung of the ladder onerously constructed and climbed by women in the past and present is being damaged by the current Democratic presidential race. I knew things weren't perfect -- that we weren't in any sense solidly in the second stage. I just didn't think vile media attacks on Hillary that resonate for all women would go largely unchallenged by the Democratic Party -- that people supposedly on the side of equal regard for all would be, by their silence, little better than those on the attack.

If a vote for the Democratic Party means condoning incivility toward women and giving the most vile in the media and ones who take their lead from them free, unchallenged reign, then the Democratic Party is a shadow of its former self -- and may indeed be deservedly so in numbers before the vicious game they've condoned is over.

[Bicoastal]

1. As much as I dislike sexist RW talking points used against HRC...

...Hillary does not represent every woman alive today, or even every female politician. We dislike her winning the nomination for many, MANY reasons that have nothing to do with her gender.

[pnwmom]

3. But every time we go along with sexist attacks against her because we dislike

her for OTHER reasons, or simply because we support another candidate,
we are hurting the cause of women's equality and hurting all women.

[theHandpuppet]

7. Exactly.

It's really not that hard to understand.

Thanks, pnwmom :thumbsup:

[pnwmom]

10. Apparently, it is that hard to understand, at least for some people.

And you're welcome, Handpuppet.

[juajen]

190. Thanks so much for this post.

I have been disheartened by the the blatant sexism and downright hatred directed toward Hillary. It must be heartbreaking for Chelsea. I am disappointed in women all over this country as they are some of the worst, spewing hatred, throwing horrible epithets and repeating lies from RW blogs and media. What it shows is that they have no respect for themselves, in spite of all we tried to accomplish and what some of us went through to accomplish progress for women's rights.

It is sad. I know Hillary's brave, and I so admire her for that, but America is just slow. We are so behind other countries that it is pathetic. Women are their own worst enemies.

Night all. After this, I've got to give it a rest.

[pnwmom]

198. You're welcome, juajen. Good night!

[chimpymustgo]

209. This has been disheartening. I don't even support Hillary, but the casual and overt sexism against

her by Democrats, Republicans, the media, and once-respected DU'ers has been chilling. I think Obama has used sexist language against her that has turned me off COMPLETELY (among other problems I have with BHO).

Saddest has been what has been exposed within the Democratic party and here on DU. We have a long way to go.

[niyad]

32. sexism is so inherently ingrained that most people cannot recognize it.

and many refuse to.

HAPPY susan b anthony's birthday

[rodeodance]

44. yes. I think of that often when I look at comments here on DU

32. sexism is so inherently ingrained that most people cannot recognize it.

and many refuse to.

HAPPY susan b anthony's birthday

[blm]

8. Everytime we give in to RW smears against any Dem we show ourselves to be undeserving

of support....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[sendero]

202. Who is ..

... "giving in"? You act as though we have a choice, some influence over the media. If we did, there would have never been a swiftboat attack, but there not only was, the MSM gave them hundreds of hours of free air.

I find the entire premise of this thread laughable. The RW and the MSM are going to do what they want. They've been doing so for years. Whether we "give in" or not.

[ZinZen]

206. I forgot that BLM

Oh... Hillary, pandering as usual, and throwing a good Dem under the bus to score some cheap political points.

[blm]

207. Thanks for picking up on the double standard aspect - seems it was lost on some.

.

[Bicoastal]

9. Well, see, now you're trying to paint all Obama supporters as going along with sexist attacks...

...I haven't seen one sexist attack from the Right Wing that haven't been criticized and roundly rejected by the vast majority of DU'ers. Remember the "Hillary Nutcracker?" I was one of the first to demand that be taken off our website. And Obama's campaign WASN'T the one who started the "Iron My Shirt" thing in NH--that was a local radio show.

Anyway, she still didn't earn my vote on Super Tuesday.

[pnwmom]

33. Why aren't Democrats taking their complaints to the media? Why isn't

the party itself responding? Why aren't party elders like Ted Kennedy speaking out?

And why do so many supporters of other candidates here on DU seek to minimize the attacks she has undergone, or characterize it as whining? Would they be saying the same thing if Obama were undergoing racist attacks in the media?

[Bicoastal]

52. Well, why should WE apologize if it's mostly the Right Wing who's doing it?

When that awful woman asked McCain "How can we beat that Bitch," Democrats from all sides were outraged and denounced the comment. But if Ted Kennedy apologized for something he didn't do, he'd look guilty--and unfairly, too. Women are already pouncing on him for DARING to endorse Obama--this would only be worse.

Plus, are you telling me that Hillary can't handle these sexist RW attacks? I thought she's been triumphing over them for 16 years! Now you're trying to tell me that she needs people from Obama's side to protect her?

This is exactly why I worry about Hillary winning the nomination--her unpopularity among half of the country may be horribly unfair, but it is present. If Hillary needs the party to constantly protect her, she seems like a bigger risk than Obama. I'd rather wait for a female candidate who does what Hillary can't seem to do--win the public over. And they ARE out there...they just aren't as powerful as Hillary YET.

[pnwmom]

71. We should not apologize. We should call out the misogynists, and fight sexism,

just as we would certainly fight racism if we saw it daily spewed on our airways.

Don Imus got fired. Why is it that nothing happens to people like Limbaugh who routinely spew sexist slurs?

[Bicoastal]

89. What the hell are Democrats supposed to do about Rush Limbaugh?

Don Imus thorougly deserved the drubbing he got, but Limbaugh is protected on high by powerful friends. He's also, unfortunately, smarter than Imus. Short of rescinding the first ammendment, we can't force him off the air or prevent him from badmouthing Hillary Clinton as he's been doing for nearly two decades now.

And it's not as if Democrats think the 90% of the Limbaugh show that isn't Clinton-related is completely inoffensive, anyway...but again, what can we do?

[pnwmom]

107. High profile Democrats can speak out, and possibly wield some positive

influence, but none of them want to bother.

[Bicoastal]

113. You MUST be joking--if there was any way Democrats COULD get him off the air...

...they'd have done it by now.

Don't you realize it isn't ALL about Hillary?

[pnwmom]

116. They don't have to get him off the air. They can help to educate people

by using their own high profile positions to speak out against it when it occurs.

[Bicoastal]

121. Harry Reid had the Senate condemn him for talking about "phony soldiers."

A fat lot of good that did us.

The key to Limbaugh is to watch for moments of weakness and then use his own words against him. All we had to do in 2006 was sit back and let the media play that video of him making fun of Michael J. Fox, and BOOM--a landslide of negative criticism.

Michael J. Fox, however, is a sick man and not an elected official--unlike a mover and shaker like Hillary Clinton.

[LulaMay]

182. Well then, where is the outcry from his supporters or HIM? Nowhere....

because his campaign and supporters have only been too happy to be silent, even trivialize it, and benefit how it shapes the race. What has happened is unbelievable.

[niyad]

29. sexism is so inherently ingrained that most people cannot recognize it.

and many people refuse to. a very sad commentary on the state of mind in the 21st century.

Happy susan b anthony's birthday

"FAILURE IS IMPOSSIBLE"

[theHandpuppet]

34. And in a country where thousands upon thousands of women and girls....

... are being held in sexual slavery. Yet another topic you rarely see discussed around here.

[Bicoastal]

It's terrible. More should be done to stop it; But it has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.

Or Barack Obama, for that matter.

[theHandpuppet]

76. But it has everything to do with sexism in this society

And the silence that surrounds it.

[pnwmom]

79. Yes it does. Because when we stand silent in the face of the attacks against Hillary

we're making it that much more likely that the next female candidate will face the same types of attacks.

[TheDebbieDee]

58. Bingo and RECOMMENDED !

[EmilyAnne]

82. I agree.

Its completely wrong and any Democrat, regardless of their chosen candidate, should speak out against it whenever they see it being used against HRC or any other female. I have so much respect for Clinton and will always believe that so much of the animosity against her is fueled by sexism.

It sucks, but there will always be someone who supports your cause for the wrong reasons. I have chosen to vote for Obama. I know that there will be a lot of idiots who also support him simply because they are sexist, HRC-hating jerks. You have chosen to support Clinton. There will be a lot of idiots who also support her simply because they are racist, Barack HUSSEIN Obama-hating jerks. We have to represent the best of our cause by not resorting to or supporting any racist or sexist attacks against our candidate's opponent. Period.

[pnwmom]

105. Good post, EmilyAnne. Welcome to DU! Actually, however,

I'm bi-candidate, as Margaret Cho says -- neutral with regard to Obama/Clinton. But I'm not neutral about the sexist attacks on her.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

117. I couldn't agree more.

Well said.

[Skidmore]

122. Phooey. Women fought for the right to be compete the same as men and

now that we are in a competitive position, we are whining about it. Now, I am a woman who does not support Hillary because I don't like her politics and some of her issues. That is all. I don't believe that it hurts me as a woman to disagree with her or that not supporting her as a candidate hurts all women.

[pnwmom]

159. That isn't what I'm saying. Of course it doesn't hurt you as a woman to

disagree with her and of course you are not obligated to support her merely because she's a woman.

But it hurts ALL women when we, and the Democratic party, sit back IN SILENCE and allow Hillary to be attacked with sexist slurs, because the same atmosphere of misogyny hurts all of us, and our sisters and mothers and daughters.

[miceelf]

151. Well

I don't agree with the sexist attacks on her. I agreee with the substantive ones, of which there are many.

And it is a little inconsistent to criticize Obama for not attacking her attackers wrt sexism, while her own campaign has injected race and appealed to racism at every turn.

[pnwmom]

160. I think much of what was called racism was twisted by the media.

The fairy tale comments, for example, were completely taken out of context. Is it "injecting race" when HRC points to her own strong record on human rights issues? If so, then I guess she's guilty.

[Dark]

193. Ummm, the attacks I've seen aren't sexist.

And while there may be some "she's a woman," you could say the same about attacks against Barack being "he's a black man."

Face it. She screwed up. She was expecting to coast into the nomination. She had no plan B.

THAT's one reason why I don't like her. She acted like it was a privelege to vote for her, and that the nomination was hers.

[Triana]

205. EXACTLY what pnwmom said...

...don't agree with her policies? Don't like her record?

FINE - Talk about that endlessly -- but the damned sexist commentary has to STOP.

[MaineDem]

216. I so agree with you

Like her or not, no one should put up with sexist rhetoric!

[movonne]

22. I like Hillary, but just don't want her for president...and I would really

like to see a woman president as I would like a black president...

[OzarkDem]

64. She represents many American women

and demeaning her because she is a woman demeans all women who seek to assert themselves and be leaders.

[Kitty Herder]

188. Amen. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. vile media attacks?

oh please.

gag.me.with.spoon.

I suppose that mentioning facts which are adverse to HIll, in most cases CAUSED by her campaign is therefore out of bounds.

[pnwmom]

4. Tweety? Limbaugh? Coulter? Are you wearing blinders? n/t

[Iceburg]

28. Blinders and ear muffs -- standard cult wear /nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

54. oh, bullshit.

Coulter is supporting SUPPORTING her over McLame.
Limbaugh is concentrating on attacking Ole John, claiming it helps McLame learn what conservatism is all about.
Tweety called her inevitable a year ago, a machine to admire, unstoppable.

my problem is with what is inherent in this post and many of the responses.

First of all, from personal and professional reasons, I cannot support her. Ever. I think she is dangerous, I think her nomination would be a mistake, and I think that her policies suck. When she admits to having one. After the polls and focus groups have spoken to Penn, then to her.

That said, you folks are trying (and not succeeding) in framing the issue that an attack on her past, her present, her campaign and her policies is due to her sex. I say BULLSHIT to that. Too many of her policies are simply unsupportable by many liberals and progressives. Too much in her past has and remains ignored by the MSM. (Walmart? Coke? her union busting? her support for NAFTA?) She doesn't even have the strength of character to mention 6 yrs of work on Walmart's board of directors. Talk about revisionist crap.

In some ways, her campaign resembles your basic, hapless, talentless magician. As the performer tries to keep your eyes on one hand, you spot the other hand hiding the bean off the table. Every time bad news comes out, they spend incredible resources and effort in changing the subject and NEVER addressing the original issue.

Penn, Wolfson, Ickes, and others do it again and again, over and over. All that does is reinforce the idea that her presidency would be filled with the same shit. And frankly, people do not want it. It reminds them of the worst of Bill and the worst of Bush.

the effort to frame criticism of her as sexist is yet another spectacular effort by Penn and others to change the discussion about her failures, troubles and inability to be a decent president, into something else. Well, I for one, refuse to be distracted and forced into that patently dishonest effort.

She is a bad candidate. She will be a worse president. Edwards was my choice, between him, Biden and Dodd, we had great talent. Obama is no slouch either. But, no way can I stay true to my soul, my heart and my liberal convictions and ever vote for her. NEVER will I do that. NEVER. There is too much at stake. And she has no one else but herself to thank for that.

[pnwmom]

66. You don't get it. She's not my candidate. I'm neutral with regard to her and

Obama. This has nothing to do with who I'd vote for in the election and everything to do with sexism that affects ALL women, in the long run, when we don't stand up to it.

Tweety has made INNUMERABLE sexist cracks about her, as have Limbaugh and Coulter. Coulter's recent odd comments don't change that.

[OzarkDem]

68. Exactly

I commend you on your fair and evenhanded attitude.

If the news media was making racist remarks about Obama, we would all be the first to condemn them. It should be no different for sexism.

[OzarkDem]

67. Not bull

Its true, its going on and Democrats, of all people should not be condoning it, defending it, denying it or staying silent about it.

[eridani]

178. Come on. I dislike her policies and past votes as much as anybody here

You'd have to be blind and deaf not to notice sexist RW attacks on her that have nothing to do with these policies. They have been happening since well before she became a presidential candidate.

[Iris]

111. I always do when it comes to them. Why would we expect them to behave any differently than they

always have?

Coulter doesn't even think women should vote.

[theHandpuppet]

6. Where have you been the past 20 years?

DU is sounding more and more like Free Republic every day. I could provide you with a glossary of the outrageously sexist insults hurled at HRC on this very forum.

And her name is not "Hill" anymore than Barack's name is Oba.

[femrap]

86. Remember the 'cleavage' crap in the media

about HRC? Since you're male, how about we discuss your 'lack of package' on the air. Maybe we could hold up a picture of W in that air force suit and a picture of you and show your lack of a decently sized appendage.

Or maybe you're losing your hair and need rogaine. Or maybe you dress in the dark considering that tie you have on.

Media has made fun of her laugh, her clothes, her ankles, her hair...as if they are back in junior high.

So antifaschits...I see you're not going to be gagging anyone with what LITTLE you have.

Go join the Repugnants...that's what you sound like.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

95. typical hillarian BS

excuse me, but being a liberal, a progressive and an independent thinker has not corroded my brain. I know several things, and on the top of that list is that Hillary is no democrat and no Democrat. She is the product of the DLC, one of the worst organizations that has been infecting the Democratic party for way too long. They sold out our soul, and they sold out our country.

She is precisely what is so wrong with our party. Triangulation = strangulation.
Hell, she would even poll whether the constitution is worth saving, just to get elected. Or whether it would be safer to be silent on the attack on the 1st, 2nd and 4th amendments.


Here I am talking about policy, and there you are talking about looks? how insightful. how deep. how convincing. How Hillarian of you. Attack the size of my penis WHOO WHOO! I am sooo troubled by that. Not. Frankly, I am what I am, and the idea that I need to change my looks to meet or match some hollywood ideal is laughable. and counterproductive. and silly. I'd rather read a book, or write another one.

If anyone sounds like a repuke, femrap, it is thee. I suggest a good mirror, some good background lighting, and a hell of a lot less make up. Take a good look. Support of feminism is not based on support of Hillary. Support of feminism is the respect, as an equal, of the opposite sex. Criticism of Hillary is not sexist. Criticism of Hillary is more often based on her errors of judgment, her policies, and her approach to this campaign.

[pnwmom]

126. Is this too hard to understand: not all criticism of Hillary is sexist.

Criticism of her policies or record is not sexist.

But much of the ridicule -- ridiculing her female voice, her female body shape, etc. -- clearly is sexist.

Now do you understand?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

149. how sweetly condescending.

WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK I RAISE POLICY DISPUTES AND ISSUES? AND , please explain to me, why I am attacked as sexist when I do so?

[pnwmom]

156. Please explain why you think I'm attacking you as sexist?

If the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise, don't.

[femrap]

147. So it's OK then for your mother, wife, daughter to

be publicly ridiculed over some body part? Is that correct? When she was criticized for her thick ankles or her cleavage, she is being ridiculed as a woman...or yelled at to iron a shirt.

If you can't see that, then maybe you better go back to reading Andrea Dworkin.

BTW, who says BO is not corporately owned? He didn't like the excesses of the '60's and '70's, and Reagan was an OK guy.

I dislike the DLC as much as the next socialist...what does that have to do with the treatment of HRC by MSM?

Oh...and I need makeup...haven't you heard, employers can now demand that female employees wear it.

Are you Popeye the sailor man? Toot toot!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

150. what a twisted, little, erroneous and deliberately obtuse view you take

with the stress on "twisted", with perhaps a side dish of small minded.

You are the embodiment of what people hate about Hillary and her campaign, liberals, democrats and progressives, especially. I hope you are proud.

Answer honestly (if it is in your genetic make up to do so) why she has a 42% DISAPPROVAL RATING, and close to 40% among self-described Democrats?

[pnwmom]

157. She has a high disapproval rating partly because of honest disagreements with

her policies and partly because of the MSM spending sixteen years unfairly slamming her, that's why.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

166. and nothing at all to do with her 35 yrs of experience for change, eh?

uh huh.

[pnwmom]

170. That comes under the heading of "honest disagreements with policy"

assuming you're being honest.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

203. I honestly do not like or trust her,

having had to deal with her in person. and Honestly, I do not like her policies, her triangulation, and her support of so many anti-union, anti-rights, and anti-constitutional votes.

[femrap]

168. Because most males cannot cope with the

idea of a woman being the most powerful person in the free world...The Commander in Chief. And some women resent their lack of choices in life (sometimes self-imposed)..as a result, they don't want to see any other woman excel...jealousy, maybe.

I see you sitting with a thesaurus looking up adjectives for obtuse.

The day that I agree with the masses is the day I will begin to worry about my views.

Did you notice that I didn't call you any nasty names?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

204. excuse me, but I find that being blunt is sometimes necessary, albeit painful

you are so full of it.

MOST MALES CANNOT COPE? I know fully understand the scope, breath, and depth of your problem. You wouldn't be Valerie Solanas, the infamous author of SCUM, by chance, would you? Your misandry is showing.

If anything, my problem is closer to philogyny.

We do agree that some women have lack of choices in life precisely because those limits are self-imposed. AND about as many men suffer from the same self-limiting lifestyle, willingness to act as sheeple, and giving too much attention to their religion, or some matriarch or patriarch whose views fucked up their future. There is NO CHROMOSOMAL DIFFERENCE between those who suffer from self-limitation.

Self limitation is simply not sex-based. As many men suffer from "If only I could have done that" as women.

[femrap]

210. Of course there is no chromonsonal difference....

except women create life and it seems lots of males like to destroy it. (95% of the prison population being male, you know).

I am talking about patriarchy and how this rules our culture. Patriarchy is a system developed over centuries...and is rooted in organized religions. My dislike of patriarchy is construed as some 'problem' that I suffer. Wake up...males suffer from it as well...convinced by society to become warriors and kill women and children. Ever wonder why these guys come back totally fucked up in the head?

And I'm not talking of self-limitations. I'm a talking of society-imposed limitations.

Anyway, I am not here to try to enlighten or teach you. If you want to learn about it, you can google or go to the library or order a book.

You appear to have a closed mind and like feeling that somehow God made you superior to women.

So with that, I am going to ignore you. I see enough of this crap in real life. Willful ignorance just grinds on my patience.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

213. willful ignorance, closed mind, superior to women?

you are truly amazing.

Please do ignore me. I would be grateful.

[rodeodance]

215. and the Where the tears real--??

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaM]

5. Perhaps you didn't see the thread here yesterday that called 60's feminists "paleo"

I have been shocked at the fact at how much more sexist than racist America seems to be. I am not trying to demean the problem of racism. It exists, it's ugly, it's pervasive in our society, but I'm sorry to say that it seems that sexism is worse.

[pnwmom]

14. Wow. I did miss that thread. The ignorance is so sad, especially

when it comes from women themselves.

[rodeodance]

48. I saw that--could bear to rad the comments--coming from DU members

[LulaMay]

189. I didn't see it because I had to leave here for awhile. It's really upsetting.

[Freida5]

11. Definitely talking about Tweaty, NBC, KO and the whole biased NBC crew

[pnwmom]

16. I've been disappointed with Olbermann that he seems to go along

with them. His enthusiasm for Obama probably has something to do with it.

[theHandpuppet]

46. Maybe even the great Olbermann needs a look in the mirror

I like Keith but he really needs to do some soul-searching on this issue.

[LulaMay]

183. I stopped watching him too. They are enamored with themselves while beating us down

by beating Hillary down.

[gaspee]

47. I stopped watching him

I've always thought he was a bit of a sexist prig, but I chalked it up to him being over 50 and his background in sports. Glimpses would come through in his reports but for the most part it wasn't too offensive.

That has all changed. He's as bad as the rest when it comes to Clinton. I'm so disappointed.

[Freida5]

56. I have stopped watching also.

[libbygurl]

87. He's off my fast-shrinking list of fair-minded broadcasters, too.

Only Bill Moyers, David Brancaccio on NOW are among those in that short list today.

[femrap]

90. KO is sexist. I emailed him

twice about his coverage of infotainment...Britney and Lindsey. I asked if there wasn't something a bit more important on the political scene to discuss in the last 10 minutes of show besides Britney.

HE BLOCKED MY EMAILS! I guess us 'girls' are just supposed to idolize him for his Special Comments and be happy with that. No, KO is not social progressive.

[donkeyotay]

153. I can't believe what I'm hearing from Olbermann.

I'm disappointed in him. I don't even understand him anymore. The piece he just did on both Clintons... and the free pass he gave on Obama's very condescending, "Hillary feels like she's down, so she wants to attack." His paternalistic smarmyism has been my last straw. I won' vote for him. I've had it with the party and I've had it with this place.

[LulaMay]

184. Me too...had it with him, the party, this place. I hardly come here anymore.

[Polly Hennessey]

12. pnwmom and LisaM

Sexism is far worse. I commented to my husband the other day that women are viewed as incapable and non-existent by many as far as leadership is concerned. The sad part is that many of the worst offenders are other women. Calling the feminist movement paleo must have come from someone young and deluded ---- oh, to see them when they are 65 and 70.

[pnwmom]

18. I saw an article recently quoting some Wellesley students in this regard.

It would have killed me to hear the same comments coming from my own twenty-something daughter. I don't know any professional woman who has gotten through her twenties, however, without realizing that sexism is alive and well in the workplace and beyond.

[femrap]

93. They'll never make it that far. nt

[Bitwit1234]

13. And have you noticed the sexist ads.

Hungry Man frozen dinners for one. ---Three men are sitting finishing lunch, One is drinking a fruit drink and I forget what the other two had. One says" I'm off to the bathroom" The other two say well I don't have to go but I'll go with you....as they parade past a big husky guy with a Hungry Man TV dinner he says in a condesending way...."Where are you going ladies" and something about having a Hungry MAN LUNCH. I've sent this to my friends and we have all sent emails to the company. It sucks...absolutely sucks.

[pnwmom]

26. I don't watch much TV. This is one of the reasons. Too much idiocy. n/t

[LulaMay]

185. The one where a woman candidate is debating a mop? I wanted to smash the screen.

[Beausoir]

15. More and more, I do not recognize the Democratic party.

[Straight Shooter]

25. Nor I. A friend of mine this morning has nicknamed it "The backstabbing party."

:(

[LulaMay]

186. More and more they reveal themselves.

[mckeown1128]

17. Hillary is the victim... blah blah blah... nt

[pnwmom]

20. No. ALL WOMEN are the victims. Even the ones who don't know it. n/t

[mckeown1128]

24. What because Hillary might not be president?

Give me a break.

[pnwmom]

27. Not at all. Because every time we allow the media -- the Limbaughs, the

Coulters, the Tweety -- to put Hillary down with sexist slurs, we are complicit in their slamming of ALL women.

Just as we would be complicit if we failed to stand up to racist attacks against Obama.

[mckeown1128]

30. I disagree with you.

There is nothing we can do about their sexist remarks. Free speech. We can boycott. Many do.

[pnwmom]

40. Why aren't influential, high profile Democrats -- Gore, Kennedy, Dean,

Dean, other Presidential candidates -- speaking out against these sort of attacks? No matter who they are supporting in the election?

[Bicoastal]

101. You want Gore, Kennedy, and Dean to speak out against conservatives and the GOP?

What do you think they've been DOING all this time? Do you think they LIKE it when any Democratic politician gets smeared?

There's only so much the entire party can do to shield Hillary Clinton from RW talking points.

[pnwmom]

106. No, I want them to speak out against MSNBC, Limbaugh, etc. and the

biased coverage that's all over the media.

[Debi]

37. I am not a victim

and I will not buy into the 'all women are victims' either.

Hillary Clinton and her victim posse have hurt feminism.

We will not be treated as equals by crying victim and manipulating our way into equality.

She is a United States Senator - she makes the same amount of money as all other United States Senators - and hopefully she pays her staff the same salary (no matter what gender they are) as all other Senate staffers.

She's capable of raising money and running for office, she doesn't need any preferential treatment. And she doesn't need a whole bunch of women yelling 'victim' every time somebody offends her.

We're not victims.

We're women.

[pnwmom]

50. You're lucky if you haven't experienced professional difficulties due to your

gender -- lucky, or very young.

My sister finally decided to take a chance on losing her job (a scary prospect, because she was a single mom), and she filed a complaint with the Equal Opportunity Commission against her employer. The result -- ALL the women in her department got raises of AT LEAST 40%. Her boss got put out to pasture, and a few years later, she's making twice as much as she was then.

If you're in a male dominated profession, you won't be surprised by this. But you shouldn't wear blinders, no matter what your situation is.

[Debi]

57. I also won't wear a chip on my shoulder n/t

[pnwmom]

60. You must be young. Get ready for a rude awakening. n/t

[Debi]

72. Quite young, 40.

Before I married my husband I worked in the legal field (well, I still do) in a law firm that not only has female partners in the firm but a female office manager. (in a county that has male and female magistrates/judges/court attendants/clerks/county attorneys). Society is evolving, women are equal in many parts and superior in others.

I'm not saying sexism doesn't exist. I am saying that it is not as rampant and some would like us to believe. And I don't believe crying victim will help the cause, refusing to be one will advance it faster.

[pnwmom]

75. I'm glad my sister didn't listen to you before she filed her EOC complaint.

"Crying victim" certainly worked for her.

[Debi]

81. If she was victimized she should have filed her complaint

However, not every woman employed in a field that in the past was dominated by men is a victim. Not every woman who has a supervisor who is male is a victim. Not every woman who is the only woman in her office or building is a victim. Not every woman is a victim.

And Hillary Clinton is no victim.

[pnwmom]

94. No, not every woman in a male dominated field has had to deal with sexism.

Just most of them.

And Hillary is clearly among them.

[Debi]

109. There you go.

You can hold tight to that.
No matter what we do we will always be victims.
That thought process means that women will never not be victims so we will never succeed.

Hillary Clinton is a United States Senator. Show me where she makes less money or has less seniority than any other Senator of her tenure. Show me where she is allotted less staff or is forced to pay them less than the male Senators do. Show me where she has less committee appointments than other Senators. Show me where she has to work longer hours or be present on the floor more or give better speeches than her male counterparts. Show me where she has endured any sexist remarks or treatment from any of the other senators or their staffs. Please provide me links to any accusations of unfairness.

She is no victim, she just uses the mantle to rile up women who go around thinking they are. It seems to be working.

[pnwmom]

114. Show me the male candidate who is mocked for his thick ankles or deep-pitched

voice or his pantsuit. Show me the male candidate who is accused of being phony when a small amount of emotion manages to cross his face.

Men are praised for their baritone voices; women with female voices are accused of being "shrill." Men are applauded for being ambitious; women are accused of being manipulative.

We've come a long way in some respects, and not so long in others.

I have no idea about Hillary's office space, obviously, but do you think that if she actually had less office space, she'd EVER complain about it? Of course she wouldn't, because she'd know that that kind of complaint would doom her politically.

[Debi]

123. John Edwards and his hair - Mitt Romney and HIS hair

Howard Dean and the sweater (Oh God Howard Dean and THE SCREAM) - John Kerry and .... well, his hair, botox rumors, wind sailing, manicures, that one orange tan.

Hell, Kennedy v Nixon on color TV. Men are judged on their appearances in politics. You just seem to not notice it.

You can't come up with complaints about Clinton's time in the Senate b/c there aren't any. And it's not because of her not wanting to appear the victim but because each and every senator is treated equally. Unless of course the Senator lives closer to Washington D.C. than other Senators do. The reimbursement for staff gets larger the farther away a Senator's home state is from D.C. (I guess that would make Jim Webb a victim compared to Maria Cantwell in some messed up way?)

[pnwmom]

162. Edwards had cracks made about the PRICE of his haircut, which

I don't think were deserved.

The Howard Dean incident was despicable, but it had nothing to do with sexism. Calling a woman "shrill," however IS sexist, because in general women DO have higher-pitched voices than men. Society has deemed baritone voices preferable to soprano, and that has everything to do with sexism.

[femrap]

110. Explain to me why the shows on TV

no longer have strong women? No more Roseannes, Murphy Browns, or Designing Women. All of the women are very attractive, lots of cleavage, and married to fat ugly guys.

Why are Strip Clubs back?

Why did W tell the Bureau of Labor Statistics to stop using the category of WOMEN at work?

Why are the Little Girls' clothes at Walmart similar to street walkers?

Why have the salaries of women stagnated at 75 cents to the dollar of men?

And last but certainly not least, Why do say women are calling 'Victim' when all we are doing is point out instances of sexism?

P.S. Just curious but why did you feel it was necessary for you to mention that you have a husband?

Oh...where are women superior in this country? I'd like to relocate. Thx.

Are you typing from the Heritage Foundation?

[Bicoastal]

129. What about Ugly Betty?

As for why are there strip clubs--no one forces women to work at them.

A lot of these problems you just mentioned have as much to do with women as they do with men.

And PS--someone above just DID say that all women are victims, and argued with a female DU'er who rejected that argument.

[Debi]

138. Thank you Bicoastal

I read that post and just :eyes:

Some people have 'victim' so ingrained in them that there is no use arguing with them.

[Bicoastal]

141. Tell me about it. Someone on DU once called me a victim...

...because as a 7-day old baby, I was circumcised against my will. :blush::eyes:

Here, you might want to check this out--I wrote it in response to this thread. So far, almost of the positive feedback has been from female Obama supporters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4608143&mesg_id=4608143

[Debi]

144. I K&R'd it right away!

:hi:

(Oh my, I victimized my son as well. Maybe that's why I'm not the victim here.....)

[pnwmom]

195. I'm curious, femrap, about your comment about the Bureau of Labor

statistics. Could you elaborate? Are you saying down they don't break down statistics by gender anymore?

[femrap]

217. That's right..

That's what I read....I believe in a NOW newsletter.

W has wanted to make women invisible. His first day as Prez...he got rid of the WH Women's Bureau. Check out the National Women's Lawyer Center...they know EVERYTHING!!!! When I worked on the Kerry campaign, I used their website...I was f*cking amazed at what the W regime had done to women..AMAZED

Of course, this is NOT publicized...as most anti-women policies aren't.

You are the first person to ask..Thank you.

[DURHAM D]

78. Funny - You have a big one right on your shoulder about this issue. n/t

[Debi]

83. Oh there you are with your witty one liners

Am I victimizing you by posting? :cry:

[libbygurl]

84. At least they're witty! nt

[Darth_Kitten]

139. Some women are still in the "please a man, make no waves.....

and aren't I so strong and I don't need your help, thank you very much" mode.


See, rights for women just fell out of the sky, and right into their laps.
Something about other women having to fight for basic rights and respect bothers them too much. Reminds them that maybe, just MAYBE, things are not so rosy as they wish them to be. Maybe they are too scared (cowardly?) to change things for themselves.

Fine, let their bitterness eat away at them. I pity such women.

[Darth_Kitten]

136. You doth protest too much?

hmmmmm.....you are NOT a victim, and you will not be manipulated. Well, good for you.

Want a pat on the head? Pretend I'm a man. :sarcasm:

[theHandpuppet]

38. And therein lies the greatest tragedy of all.

:(

[ShortnFiery]

145. "ALL WOMEN are the victims."

No, I refuse to live my life like that and I REFUSE to raise my young daughter with such a, IMO, destructive mindset.

To be specific to myself as a IMO, feminist: Way back in 1979 when I found myself as one of the first Cadet Women, in one of the very first groups of women being allowed in the coveted Army Infantry School as "AIRBORNE," I didn't DARE tell my Sergeant Airborne, "No, I can't be the first to be cast 250 feet straight up in the air and dropped from my parachute out of this class of 300 troops. Why?!? I KNOW that you are *discriminating against me* only because I'm one of the most petite of 30 women in this entire class. NO! Sergent Airborne, I'M A VICTIM and you must pass me anyway." :wow: :wtf: :crazy: The foregoing was not an option. :thumbsdown:

With sincere respect for your genuine concern regarding women's civil rights, can you not see that the ONLY TRUE WAY of PROVING your minority status in this cold, hard and sometimes, cruel world is by "setting the example" for your group by excelling at the task at hand? (sorry for my run on sentences :blush:)

The lion's share of negative press against HRC is NOT because she's a woman but a combination of fall-out from the Mark Penn originated "dirty tricks" and the fact that she may not be inevitable after all. No, it's unfair for the M$M to pile on, but they are true corporate beasties and tend to swarm when someone is in trouble. :shrug:

[rodeodance]

31. Do you know how UNinformed you come across when you make comments like that?

Original Message
Hillary is the victim... blah blah blah... nt
Posted by mckeown1128

[femrap]

100. Another neanderthal

who belongs over at Freeper.

Just another teeny weeny.

[Avalux]

19. Another poor Hillary editorial. I'm really tired of hearing about it.

The Democratic Party is supposed to rush to her defense? It's a completely ridiculous argument to say Democrats are condoning vile media attacks and should therefore suffer for it. :eyes:

[pnwmom]

21. Why is it ridiculous? Why aren't Democrats standing up against sexist

media attacks against one of their candidates?

If comparable RACIST attacks had been occurring against Obama, you can be sure Democrats would be standing up EN MASSE against them -- as we should have.

[rodeodance]

35. Its all about you huh=--how tired you of it all. Shame on you. This is NOT about YOU.

Another poor Hillary editorial. I'm really tired of hearing about it.
Posted by sparosnare


The Democratic Party is supposed to rush to her defense? It's a completely ridiculous argument to say Democrats are condoning vile media attacks and should therefore suffer for it.

[Bicoastal]

125. This is NOT all about Hillary either.

It's about electing a candidate that can hold their own against the right wing. Up until this point, everyone said she could do just that, and better than her opponent to boot. Now the OP is saying she can't do it without the weight of the entire party behind her?

Sounds like a liability to me.

[theHandpuppet]

43. If it's anything to do with sexism and homophobia...

... it seems "I'm tired of hearing about it" is the standard reply.

Exactly what party is this again?

[Reterr]

51. Poor you

:cry:

[LulaMay]

187. and women are really tired of being mistreated and taken for granted...watch the vote disappear.

because WE have been the ones bringing it out in droves to vote for her.

We are being kicked in the face, over and over, for weeks on end, without a WORD from Dem leadership or Obama.

[ProSense]

23. The MSM is a problem when they hype Giuliani, distort Dems' position, condone Beck's Katrina comment

Still doesn't make Hillary a victim. Where have these women's voices been all these years? They seem to be speaking about it disproportionately when it comes to Hillary! Where were they when the media turned on Pelosi and others?



edited typo

[Bucky]

36. I'm an Obama supporter, but I've gone out of my way to stop gender bashing against Clinton

Fighting sexism is difficult. You ladies just sit back and let us menfolk handle it. :hide:

Seriously, tho, I don't think there's universal acceptance of the blatant attacks on Clinton among Obama supporters, even in the twisted reflection of reality we find at DU. I know I'm not the only Obamatron who's livid at the way Chris Matthews, after spending the last five years hard selling the idea that Clinton is the only Democrat ready to be president, now has gone on an undisguised attack spree against her with some of the ugliest, gratuitous, double standard attacks on Clinton I've seen this side of Fox News.

I was one of the first DUers to slam Keith Olbermann for also shamelessly slanting his coverage against Clinton. I just don't think the HuffPo article is reflective of reality. Nor do I think every critique of Sen Clinton is an example of "slapping women back into their place." If Barbara Boxer were running, or Gov Napolitano, many of the attacks made against Clinton wouldn't make sense of used on them as well.

[Reterr]

49. Indeed

It has been noticed and appreciated by some of us. Thank you. I always read your posts when I want to actually learn something substantive about the Obama campaign.

[rodeodance]

39. REC

[DrFunkenstein]

41. Media Fawned Over The Historic Moment Pelosi Took Over

I'll repeat what I've heard many times over: I would love a woman President. Just not this woman.

[pnwmom]

53. The media liked her because she's a beautiful woman with beautiful clothes.

Cameras love her.

She's not a thick-ankled, midwestern-accented, pear-shaped woman in a pantsuit.

[Bicoastal]

135. Nancy Pelosi is a beautiful woman?

I hope you won't be offended, but as a male, I would disagree with you on that.

Hillary Clinton is ugly? I would disagree with you on that as well. But then, if I started saying WHY she is attractive, would you take offense that I was judging her on her looks, not her qualifications? And isn't that what you just did to Pelosi?

The simple truth is, the grand majority of politicians, both male and female, are pretty average looking when everything is considered. And I will include Pelosi, Clinton, McCain, and yes, even Obama on that list.

[pnwmom]

161. The MSM practically drooled over her and her designer suits.

And she is very attractive, and photogenic, especially for a 68 year old.

[Umbram]

143. I'm not sure there's not a point being dismissed.

The media is always looking for a "new story" and where it can't find one it invents one. Perhaps N.P's becoming Speaker makes having a woman president less sensational to the press than having an AA.

I'm not sure I buy the N.P being more attractive thing. Hands down I find H.C. more attractive - maybe it's just me?

Sorry for all the abbreviations!

[BlackVelvet04]

97. Yeah, and I believe you have a bridge to sell me as well. n/t

[Reterr]

42. k&r-The Clinton administration was targeted by a lot of vile, sexist attacks for a long time

Anyone remember 14 year old Chelsea Clinton being called "a dog" by dear ol' Rush? Janet Reno and Madeleine Albright got their share. While the RW loons always seemed to dislike Bill, the bulk of their viciousness was always directed at Hillary.

[pnwmom]

55. And what do each of these women have in common? They don't

look like models.

They're just ordinary looking women -- which makes them ALL "dogs."

You have to look like Nancy Pelosi to get positive media attention.

[Reterr]

65. Yep-a woman can commit no worse sin than getting "old" or "ugly"

:puke:

[femrap]

115. Oh no....it is NOT a sin....

It's a CRIME.

If I could get on the air and ridicule these males on their looks, their hair (or lack thereof), their eyebrows....they'd hit me. Men will take a lot, but they will not be laughed at or ridiculted. It's their biggest fear...especially by a woman.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. I for one will not get over it!

[madfloridian]

59. What a bunch of BS

As much as I detest the media coverage, I have seen no bias because she is a woman. That is just plain silly.

[pnwmom]

61. Tweety? Limbaugh? Coulter? Just because you don't watch those creeps --

who are given huge media platforms for their vitriol -- doesn't mean they aren't spewing their sexist attacks.

[madfloridian]

103. The OP was about how the Dem party and media in general hated Hillary.

"Silence Is Assent: What the Democratic Party Apparently Thinks of Women"

That is BS.

And this paragraph:

"Not so fast. During a recent radio interview I said that were Barack to win the nomination, he'd have my vote. But with each day the Democratic Party is losing its appeal. And I'm far from the only one thinking this way. Where are senior Democrats calling for civility at least from their own members? How about a letter from them to the corporate media culprits? Where is Howard Dean? Why didn't Ted Kennedy bother to give a noticeable nod to women and their struggle to see one of their own become president before his ecstatic leap into the Obama camp? Wouldn't he have acted differently if he'd thrown his support the other way? Why does it take people outside the party and even opposed to Clinton to decry insults to her body, her face, and her every move?"

Even more BS. It is called whining for Hillary.

[OzarkDem]

63. Just because you support Obama doesn't mean its ok to demean Hillary as a woman

You can still support your candidate and support the cause for fair treatment for women. The two should not be mutually exclusive.

[madfloridian]

104. The Huff Post refers to Dems hating women.

Silence Is Assent: What the Democratic Party Apparently Thinks of Women"

That is BS.

And this paragraph:

"Not so fast. During a recent radio interview I said that were Barack to win the nomination, he'd have my vote. But with each day the Democratic Party is losing its appeal. And I'm far from the only one thinking this way. Where are senior Democrats calling for civility at least from their own members? How about a letter from them to the corporate media culprits? Where is Howard Dean? Why didn't Ted Kennedy bother to give a noticeable nod to women and their struggle to see one of their own become president before his ecstatic leap into the Obama camp? Wouldn't he have acted differently if he'd thrown his support the other way? Why does it take people outside the party and even opposed to Clinton to decry insults to her body, her face, and her every move?"

Even more BS. It is called whining for Hillary.

[OzarkDem]

108. I agree, the Dem Party is wrong

they've taken their women voters and candidates for granted too long.

Even the GOP treats its women candidates better. When was the last time you saw the GOP stand by and let one of their own beat up on Liddy Dole or Kay Bailey Hutchinson, or any other GOP women in office? Never. It doesn't happen.

The Dem party should be ashamed of itself.

[madfloridian]

118. No, Hillary is playing the "picking on me" card.

I am a woman. The only gripe I have with the party in that respect is not being firm enough on protecting abortion.

This is just silly.

[femrap]

128. Wage equity? Day Care? Birth control covered by insurance?

I could go on and on.

W told the Bureau of Labor Statistic to remove the category of Women.

Hear any Dems get angry?

As Shirley Chisholm said, 'Men are men.'

A third party is a good idea. For all practical purposes, we really only have one.

[madfloridian]

130. Then go 3rd party.

What can I say? Hillary is really sinking low on this one.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

112. WoW. The 'cleavage' event?

The thick ankles? Her laugh? Have you ever seen the Media do something similar to a male?

Do you have a TV? Tweety even made a huge apology over his sexist comments about HRC...it was on the radio and in print.

Are you typing from the Heritage Foudation?

[pnwmom]

119. Are people really this dense? Have they never wondered why the extreme

male voice, a baritone, is always complimented -- while the extreme female voice (which HRC doesn't even have) is called "shrill"?

[LisaL]

148. Exactly.

Obama's appearance is not being discussed at all.
I've yet to hear anyone commenting on his haircut or ankles.

[femrap]

219. Maybe we could ridicule his ears?????

Plus I think his hair is way too short...what do you thinK, lizzy?????

[OzarkDem]

62. Democratic Party is the party of women

They ignore that fact at their peril. The more they demean and ignore the very base of their party, the more they lose elections.

[boston bean]

154. I don't think they will realize until it's too late. nt

[LulaMay]

192. Yes...when it's too late. Taking us for granted again....

[hfojvt]

69. expletive deleted

I don't think this is an honest or fair argument. That some kind of crime of omission is taking place whenever Hillary is not defended against a sexist attack.

First, Ted Kennedy cannot do everything. Just because he does not get on TV and protest some outrageous statement or attack does not make him guilty of supporting it. I mean, look, Ted Kennedy didn't make a statement about the shooting deaths in Northern Illinois. That must mean he condones students getting gunned down, doesn't it? There must be dozens of Democratic leaders who have not made statments about it, so the Democratic Party must condone students getting gunned down. Isn't that the same logic?

Secondly, she has a campaign and supporters to defend her, perhaps 40% of the Democratic Party, perhaps more. She doesn't need every Democrat to help her, and many of us Obama supporters have been complaining about Tweety, Limbaugh and Coulter and the rest of the M$M for decades. We don't support them period, much less their sexist attacks.

Thirdly, there are non-partisan organizations such as NOW, Media Matters, NARAL, League of Women voters, etc. to defend Hillary against sexist attacks, and those organizations have been, and continue to be, supported by many Obama supporters and HHHers.

[NJmaverick]

70. OMG! Do you actually believe the nonsense you are posting?!?!

Please tell me you don't.

[pnwmom]

74. I think the writer was making very good points.

And I suspect this article would resonate with most professional women who have lived more than two or three decades.

[NJmaverick]

80. I believe you are sincere

Which I find particularly troubling. Well I guess I can take comfort in the fact that Obama supporters are not trying to claim he is being mistreated because he is black. At least one side has is reasonable.

[Reterr]

85. You know if the Obama campaign complained about racism from the media

This Clinton supporter would agree with them and support them honestly. They talk about the Clinton campaign's remarks-but they have no problem with MSNBC hosts referring to him as a "Halfrican"? Going on about "how white or how black" he is? Every time I turn on MSNBC I see them making racially insensitive remarks about Obama. Yet, overall they are much more complimentary to him than to the "scary, cackling witch" and therefore I guess the Obama campaign doesn't want to take a stand. Honestly, to me it smacks of political opportunism.

Going after the Clinton campaign but completely ignoring all the racist crap the media puts out as long as they qualify it with "But he has such a charming smile", seems like a horrible choice.
Imo they should go after the Clinton campaign if they hear remarks that seem racist, but they should also be going after the media for some of their condescending bullshit.

[NJmaverick]

98. The Obama camp would never stoop to complaining about

racism, it's what seperates the two candidates.

[femrap]

131. When has the MSM said a bad word

about him? When and who? I'd give anything to have sexism reach the level of racism.

Did your repugnant friends steal your widdle football and now you're back her saying stupid things again?

[NJmaverick]

137. Hmmmm

How old are you 14? 15? You display the classic profile of a socially backwards teenage internet troll.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

73. Calling Hillary on her BS isn't a slap against women, it's a slap against bullshit.

Get that part straight and stop trying to ride the false charge of sexism. There is nothing more foul, more egregious than diminishing real civil rights issues in this manner.

[pnwmom]

77. No, it depends on HOW you call her on it. If you slam her with sexist slurs,

a la Limbaugh and Tweety, then it is a slap against women.

[theHandpuppet]

92. The language of sexism

Is it Hilliary or is it...
The Bitch or "Shrill Bitch"
The Witch

When Hillary speaks to a crowd, shes:
Cackling
Screeching
Whining
Yelling
Crying

Part of the problem is her appearance
Her fat legs
Her hairstyle

I could go on. I've quite a collection of such insults hurled at her right on this forum by so-called elightened Democrats.

[pnwmom]

96. And that isn't counting the really nasty ones that get deleted

before you even see them.

[Gin]

140. She is never good enough ,or strong enough, or soft enough

or like-able enough....enough already!!!! I like her, she has my vote!

[femrap]

142. So is it OK to discuss all women's cleavage like

they did to HRC? Are my thick ankles, fat ass, or any other body part free game for the guys in my office to discuss?

And if I get a new job or promotion, am I to say nothing when someone says that my husband must have had something to do with it?

And some guy interrupting my speech with hollering about ironing his shirt...is that OK?

Are women just supposed to be nice, smile, and take this kind of crap from boys? Fuck that.

All of the above involve RIDICULE...and I am tired of it.. in my personal life and seeing other women subjected to it as well. Shit, if a woman running for the highest office in our country is ridiculed for her cleavage and ankles...WTF chance does any women have?

Is everyone here fucking dense or what? Supporting BO removes your reasoning?

[AtomicKitten]

163. I don't listen to anybody that talks like that.

It's called free speech. Perhaps you should acquaint yourselves with the off button and turn your energy to relevant civil rights issues.

[femrap]

167. Well, I could move to China, too

but I don't think it would stop Tweety and the others from spewing their sexist remarks.

I don't watch TV...their antics are reported on the net or in the newspaper. So sexism is not a relevant civil rights issue to you?

Did you use to post on the old Ms. Boards?

[AtomicKitten]

169. You are looking at symptoms and making a diagnosis of

sexism, but you are not looking further and more closely at all surrounding this particular issue. The bottom line here is that some people have a visceral disdain for the Clintons. It is what it is.

People don't like Hillary. They are using what is on face value sexist language, but the driving issue here is that it is just language used to express that underlying and now I hope accepted as very real dislike of both Clintons.

I feel the same way about Bill's interesting use of race regarding events surrounding the primary in South Carolina. I don't think he is a racist, not at all, but I do believe he was using race as a political tool which, in my opinion, rises to being almost as repugnant.

There is such a thing as using a la carte language, words used out of the context of the traditional sexist/racist vernacular, without it rising anywhere in the ballpark of either ism. They are jackasses for dipping into that kind of vocabulary. But, sometimes not sweating the small stuff empowers one to be more progressive in what should be a constant urge to move forward in this country on issues such as justice and equality.

I consider the MSM a puppetshow, nothing more, nothing less, and complaining about what they say is just about as lame as the things they say. Free speech is for everybody; that's the beauty of it. It forces a more detached view to really understand it and appreciate it as written.

[femrap]

171. I still feel that some males

are unable to cope with the idea of a woman being the most powerful person in the free world...The Commander in Chief.

You may not watch the MSM, but millions do and it does shape people's attitudes and behaviors. Now I've read that PsyOps are being used on the Internet which isn't surprising. Control of the media by just a few rich, white guys can eliminate our Democracy. Our Press is no longer free...it has been bought and paid for.

And if you are in SF as your info says, you are very insulated. I lived there many years. It's very, very different out here in the middle of the country. Very different.

[AtomicKitten]

172. I appreciate your perspective.

And, you are absolutely correct. I am privileged and insulated here in what has become dear SF (I HATED it here the first year!).

I do hope you understand that David Shuster was suspended for using an inappropriate word but out of the traditional inappropriate context, using it in an idiomatic way.

Yes, I agree white American men have a long and distinguished history of behaving horribly, in and out of government, but I believe we as a people are evolving. I also agree that some men would have a problem with a female president regardless, but I think the dislike for the Clintons personally supersedes that and that is the dominant issue.

I think the MSM can monitor, reprimand, and even fire those they feel are deserving, but I also get really uncomfortable when a distinct faction of people feel they can control the media with demands. That's dangerous for democracy.

Mostly I hope we mend and move forward as a nation. I want what everybody else wants, justice and equality, and real change.

[eridani]

179. The "distinct faction of people controlling the media with demands"

--happens to be our "haves and have mores" corporate elite. Or haven't you noticed?

[pnwmom]

176. No, the MSM is using people's ingrained misogyny to attack HRC.

It is one thing to attack her on policy grounds and quite another to attack her in terms that denigrate all women. And we shouldn't be watching this with "detachment" any more than we should sit by and watch gay people or black people or any other group be attacked. If we're not going to stand up against this crap, then who will?

[pnwmom]

175. Huh. That's nice. But what would you do if your boss was one of the people

who talked like that? Millions of women are in that position, they can't push the "off" button, they need their jobs, and even in 2007 they are risking those jobs if they complain.

Thanks to women and men in Hillary's generation, there is an EOC to turn to now. My sister did, and won pay raises of at least 40% for all the women in her department. But it wasn't easy, and there was a time in there when she, a single mother, was certain she was about to lose her job.

[libbygurl]

88. K&R. Thanks for calling attention to this, pnwmom. Too few people...

...in the media and among Democrats themselves are standing up against this pervasive mode of attack against Clinton.

[BlackVelvet04]

102. K&R....

the media doesn't even try to disguise it....and they have gotten by with far too much.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

124. Jay Marvin, our supposedly "progressive" morning host, here in Denver, in talking about

Sen Clinton, whom he vehemently opposes, said,"I don't believe in slapping a woman down unless she asks for it", had a caller call him out on it and then claimed not to remember saying it, and then saying anyway, it was hyperbole.

He is almost rabid in his fury toward her and any suggestion that he might possibly be sexist. It's frightening to witness, because this is someone who prides himself on his ability to debate rationally, something at which he is skilled. However, when his own misogyny is pointed out, he goes nuts.

I am learning a lot about public figures and people I know personally, in regards to their antipathy toward women.

[pnwmom]

127. Unfortunately there seem to be a number of DUers like that, too.

This has been a terrible learning experience for many of us who HAD thought we had made more progress.

[ShortnFiery]

132. The Clintons have *mostly* done this to themselves via "The Southern Strategy" especially

when Bill Clinton played it to the hilt, both leading up to and immediately after the SC Primary. You need not be a Black American to see the filthy race baiting via Bill Cliton's statements. The only prop he needed for his "Jesse Jackson did that too" statement would have been Bill wearing mirrored sunglasses as he spewed his good ole boy filth. :thumbsdown:

[ProgressIn2008]

134. "They'll be saying, Put it behind us and let's move on. Get over it."

Yes, I dare say that will be the mantra.

[boston bean]

155. it's so bad, I don't think many women will be able too. nt

[LulaMay]

181. and they will lose this for us all by taking women for granted.

[pingzing58]

146. I have yet to vote in the tx primaries but my vote will be for Hilary because of my value for women

in our society. She is still the best candidate for president because I believe she represents my interest best.

[no name no slogan]

152. Where was this outrage in 2004 when Moseley-Braun was running?

Oh that's right. She wasn't "safe", corporate white woman who wasn't backed by the DLC.

I find it hypocritical to find all this "outrage" about Clinton's supposed "silencing" this year when NONE of these people said a damn thing about Moseley-Braun in 2004. Of course, M-B was an actual PROGRESSIVE on the issues. But that's another story.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

165. Sen Moseley-Braun introduced articles of impeachment as she left Congress. I admire her more than I

can say.

[pnwmom]

173. Was she being attacked for her "cackle"? For having thick ankles? Or wide hips?

From what I remember, she was criticized by the MSM and other Democrats for things that had nothing to do with her femininity. I'll be happy to read any links that will show otherwise. But all I can remember is the controversy about the $250 K in unaccounted for campaign donations. She wasn't prosecuted for that, claiming accounting error, but it was an unfortunate part of her record.

And again, in that regard she was criticized for an action she did or didn't take.

But I don't recall her being attacked in terms that denigrate women. Do you?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

174. Self delete.

:toast:

[Iceburg]

199. Actually it was corporate women who backed her. the NYT would'nt even interview her./nt

[D-Sooner]

158. Question

Is it possible to criticize Hillary without being labeled a sexist?

Can I dislike Hillary without disliking all women?

[pnwmom]

164. Of course it is. As long as you're criticizing her for her record and her

positions, it's not sexist at all.

It's when people veer into personal attacks on her pear shaped body, her thick ankles, her voice, her witch's "cackle," or when they can't conceive of her having any feelings -- or condemn her if she wipes a tear -- that's when it verges into misogyny.

The fact that you could even ask that question tells me that you've missed the whole point of Reardon's article. She's not criticizing people for opposing HRC on rational grounds -- she's criticizing people for not standing up against hateful, sexist attacks.

Are you really not aware of them?

[Danger Mouse]

177. I'm an Obama supporter. I don't much like Hillary Clinton...

but if I see someone saying sexist shit about her, I'll smack em down.
Some nasty subtle (and not so subtle) bigotry and sexism has been festering here for some time now.

[ErnestoG]

191. That's more than we can expect from the Hillarites toward our candidate

so, bless you.

[pnwmom]

197. I disagree. I think that if white people were holding up signs at Obama's rallies

saying "Shine my shoes!" (like the guys holding the signs that said "Iron my shirts" at the HRC rally) -- Hillary supporters would be as enraged as any Democrat would be.

[ErnestoG]

220. ..you Hillarites would be screaming about Obama "playing the race card"

I'm sorry but the shrillest part of the Hillary contingent here on DU has exposed themselves lately as extreme assholes.

[pnwmom]

194. Thank you Elrond. I'm always encouraged to meet people like you here

and fortunately, there are a good number of people who realize it is possible to support another candidate but NOT to support nasty, sexist attacks on Clinton.

[LulaMay]

180. Thank you for posting this. I have been so upset about this. I won't vote if they do this to us

men in this party have taken us for granted too long. They have not only been silent about the sexist bashing of Hillary, they have tried to take her down themselves. I don't understand how people can defend the BLATANT sexism directed at her. OF COURSE it has affected the race, and the Obama campaign is only TOO HAPPY to be silent about it and let the sexism flow. Progressive women have fought against racism for since the early suffrage days, but apparently we aren't going to be given the same consideration. I can't watch the news, MSNBC, even the Daily Show or Colbert. It's like being ganged up on.

I realized 2 weeks ago that I feel so beaten down, so taken for granted, that if they steal this from us with their sexist attacks, that I won't be able to vote at all, the first time in my life. I know a lot of other women will feel the same way, most of whom aren't on this blog, and the foolish men in this party will rue the day. Because WE are the ones who've been turning out the party vote, for her.

They can't treat us like this and expect us to come support Obama. He has been utterly silent about the sexist bashing of her....of US.

To hell with him. To hell with Kennedy and Kerry. To hell with all of them.

[pnwmom]

196. LulaMay, I totally understand where you're coming from. But we'll be

shooting ourselves in the foot if we let this stop us from voting in November. If you have any doubt, just keep thinking about the Supreme Court. One more Rethug vote there means the end of Roe vs. Wade and who knows how many other terrible decisions.

[Skittles]

200. terrible how many DUers deny or discount sexism

they don't have a f***ing clue

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

201. 80 cents for every dollar. 80 cents for every dollar. 80 cents for every fucking dollar.

Put aside semantics. Put aside perceptions. Put aside arguments over what constitutes discrimination, harrassment, bias and abuse.

Sexism in this nation can be measured in the language everyone understands: Cold. Hard. Cash.

The current estimation of the pay gap between men and women's wages is that, on average, a woman earns 80 cents for every dollar earned by a man.

Chump change? Not even hardly.

Using the current estimated average, I calculated what I have lost in wages over the course of my professional career (not even my lifetime wages).

The total exceeds $250,000.

A quarter of a million dollars. That's the price I have paid for being a female in America.

That figure doesn't even take into account that the pay gap was wider when I got my first professional job over 30 years ago. It doesn't factor in what I lost in wage-based profit sharing. It doesn't even attempt to figure what I lost in promotions and bonuses that I can't prove I was denied because of gender bias, though my achievements prove that I should have gotten them.

It's just straight wages. Eighty cents for every dollar.

Any woman who thinks she's well paid should get a look at the paystubs of her male counterparts. Then, no matter how much she resists the victim label - and I empathize with that resistance - she should think about just why her work is less valued. Why all her education, experience and effort are worth less. There's only one answer for it. And any woman who can't see it really is a victim.

[krkaufman]

208. As much damage has been done by those proclaiming that all women ...

... and Ted Kennedy should be voting for HRC because she is a woman.

[Maddy McCall]

211. .

Up.

[greeneyedboy]

212. Word. I am equally satisfied/dissatisfied with both candidates, but appalled at the misogyny. n/t

[LordJFT]

214. What are these supposed media attacks on Hilllary?

I keep hearing vague references to them but never any specifics.

[THUNDER HANDS]

218. it probably doesn't help, when looking for a woman to hold the mantle of pioneer

for that woman to be automatically hated by half the country.